Perspective

[FredEire]

1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

Yes it happens (just Google Pete Davidson’s girlfriends) but it is by far the exception to the rule. I do think there is often an illusion of average looking guys being with attractive women but that more has to do with the difference in energy (time, effort, money etc) that women spend on their appearance vs men. 
 

There is a lot of evidence showing that folks in long term relationships on average are about equal in physical attractiveness. And as has been said, when there are exceptions, there are usually really good reasons for those. As the OP has stated many times, he’s looking for a woman that is more physically attractive than himself but he’s acknowledged he doesn’t offer any of those other intangibles. Such is life. 

Either way I think it's academic because nobody with self-respect will date someone who has not, and two people with no self respect together is a recipe for disaster.

Also there are several people on here who've seen pics of ZA Dater and say he's not a bad looking guy or at least not unattractive so I think it's a very smart part of the overall problem but he wants to hyperfocus on that and ignore all the other outstanding issues.

[FredEire]

I've also never found 10/10 stunning women very appealing. I often feel they seem high-maintenance and don't tend to pursue anything there. I like cute, pretty women with a nice smile who have a sunny personality.

Is that me subconsciously recognising they are "out of my league" so as not to waste my time? Maybe, but I'm ok with that. There's ugly people who date other ugly people everywhere and I do believe they are attracted to them because of the similarity despite the fact a great many other people wouldn't.

I know if I spent my life chasing 10s as a decently good-looking guy I'd get nowhere, and it would probably serve as a defence mechanism for avoiding the possibility of dating anyone who was interested in me.

[ZA Dater]

12 minutes ago, FredEire said:

I've also never found 10/10 stunning women very appealing. I often feel they seem high-maintenance and don't tend to pursue anything there. I like cute, pretty women with a nice smile who have a sunny personality.

Is that me subconsciously recognising they are "out of my league" so as not to waste my time? Maybe, but I'm ok with that. There's ugly people who date other ugly people everywhere and I do believe they are attracted to them because of the similarity despite the fact a great many other people wouldn't.

I know if I spent my life chasing 10s as a decently good-looking guy I'd get nowhere, and it would probably serve as a defence mechanism for avoiding the possibility of dating anyone who was interested in me.

Really not sure how to explain this. I am NOT interested in dating the matches I get on OLD! I am also not chasing so called 10's again, I do class people on a number system. Trust me if ALL you get are people who do not interest you, you'd also become bitter. I spent hours on dating sites, flip I even swiped right on some people I could see would not be attractive and guess what NO likes!

High maintenance, again I guess this subjective, I have spent a lot time around the so called 10's as you rate them and you know what, they are people just like everyone else. The main difference is they have greater choice which can only help in dating, albeit the other problem is guys just after one thing so perhaps too much choice is bad too.

Lets move away from looks, I guess I must just accept someone who is apathetic about the world around them, or maybe someone who is not gainfully employed or someone spends their weekends sitting on the coach, as soon compromises are made its a never ending compromise the result being at the end day I might not even bother because instead of an orange I land up with a lemon. Please tell me how that can be conducive to being happy?

In everything I do I'd rather aspire to the best possible than throw up my hands and go "well that will do", I have tried this method of dating and there is only so much of it I can take and I have had enough for a lifetime thanks very much.

[ZA Dater]

25 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Either way I think it's academic because nobody with self-respect will date someone who has not, and two people with no self respect together is a recipe for disaster.

Also there are several people on here who've seen pics of ZA Dater and say he's not a bad looking guy or at least not unattractive so I think it's a very smart part of the overall problem but he wants to hyperfocus on that and ignore all the other outstanding issues.

How do these issues equate to a lack of interest on OLD? Are you saying the visual requirement in person is different to that on OLD? Are you saying someone who does not find me attractive on OLD will suddenly be interested in me in person?

I'd love to know because because to me there is a very clear correlation between the two, someone who swipes left is not going to be any more interested in me in person irrespective.

[ZA Dater]

4 hours ago, Gaeta said:

That is not part of my question. I am interested in what you consider attraction. Have you ever experienced lust?

Yes I have, tempered by the fact I know none of those people would be interested in me, the best I can hope for is friend zone.

[FredEire]

8 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Really not sure how to explain this. I am NOT interested in dating the matches I get on OLD! I am also not chasing so called 10's again, I do class people on a number system. Trust me if ALL you get are people who do not interest you, you'd also become bitter. I spent hours on dating sites, flip I even swiped right on some people I could see would not be attractive and guess what NO likes!

High maintenance, again I guess this subjective, I have spent a lot time around the so called 10's as you rate them and you know what, they are people just like everyone else. The main difference is they have greater choice which can only help in dating, albeit the other problem is guys just after one thing so perhaps too much choice is bad too.

Lets move away from looks, I guess I must just accept someone who is apathetic about the world around them, or maybe someone who is not gainfully employed or someone spends their weekends sitting on the coach, as soon compromises are made its a never ending compromise the result being at the end day I might not even bother because instead of an orange I land up with a lemon. Please tell me how that can be conducive to being happy?

In everything I do I'd rather aspire to the best possible than throw up my hands and go "well that will do", I have tried this method of dating and there is only so much of it I can take and I have had enough for a lifetime thanks very much.

I said nothing about OLD. Also lecturing me about considering people as people is a bit rich coming from someone who would not even consider being friends with a woman if he does not want to date her.

[ZA Dater]

4 hours ago, BaileyB said:

You date someone who is interested in dating you and stop chasing rainbows.

I’ve said this before but I will say it again, that is is like saying “I want to be a doctor but I’m trained to be a plumber.” When people point out that you will never be hired as a physician - you said, but I want to aspire to something more and you stomp your feet and complain about how unfair it is that you can’t be a physician. There is no logic in that. For a person who overthinks everything, you must see accept there is no logic in this - and this, no success or happiness to be found.

Sorry but this is frankly nonsense. That like saying eat bread every single day because well its too difficult to eat pancakes, I think Comrade is also a word wholly appropriate to the first line. Nobody would ever achieve anything if they never aspired to more. I am steadfast in what I am not interested in and that is not likely to ever change, I can take a few blows to the head so I'll pay the price if needed.

Just to get this straight you date people who are interested in your, irrespective if they interest you? 

You right there is absolutely no success to be found using that logic and absolutely no happiness either.

[FredEire]

7 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

How do these issues equate to a lack of interest on OLD? Are you saying the visual requirement in person is different to that on OLD? Are you saying someone who does not find me attractive on OLD will suddenly be interested in me in person?

I'd love to know because because to me there is a very clear correlation between the two, someone who swipes left is not going to be any more interested in me in person irrespective.

Firstly I've never seen your profile, my guess it's it's a bit rubbish also.

Also OLD is very superficial by nature as you can only judge based off photos and a bio. It makes sense you wouldn't match with many people you find attractive, it's normal.

Also very normal to meet someone off OLD and find them less/more attractive than their profile, as photos and real life are very different, plus you are getting to know their personality and the way they carry themselves.

[ZA Dater]

Just now, FredEire said:

I said nothing about OLD. Also lecturing me about considering people as people is a bit rich coming from someone who would not even consider being friends with a woman if he does not want to date her.

You right because studies have shown its rare for men and women to be friends without someone wanting more than that. I have had friendships with women, the one ended because she was relentless about wanting to date me and I found that very off putting.

At least the quasi transactional friendships I have do not have that issue as someone benefits on both sides of the deal, she gets what she wants from me and I get company.

[FredEire]

1 minute ago, ZA Dater said:

You right because studies have shown its rare for men and women to be friends without someone wanting more than that. I have had friendships with women, the one ended because she was relentless about wanting to date me and I found that very off putting.

At least the quasi transactional friendships I have do not have that issue as someone benefits on both sides of the deal, she gets what she wants from me and I get company.

What studies are these? I have them, plenty of others do, why is it so strange?

Even if my female friends did fancy me originally they certainly haven't been "relentless" about getting me into bed, and we have fun and valuable friendships. What on earth is wrong with that?

[ZA Dater]

3 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Firstly I've never seen your profile, my guess it's it's a bit rubbish also.

Also OLD is very superficial by nature as you can only judge based off photos and a bio. It makes sense you wouldn't match with many people you find attractive, it's normal.

Also very normal to meet someone off OLD and find them less/more attractive than their profile, as photos and real life are very different, plus you are getting to know their personality and the way they carry themselves.

Well in 10 years and many different profiles the results remain the same, my humour is quite dry so that another problem in person so its not like I can use that either because I then get blank looks as the humour has not been picked up. No problem, I then try another way to engage but eventually I just give up at which point she has already lost interest anyway. 

Or there is someone more fun so that its game over. I liken myself to someone who is useful rather than attractive, I can be useful to people and have a lot to offer in that respect so I need to try make up with that what I lack in attraction.

[FredEire]

Also in the space of a couple of days you have told us that a woman was writing you erotic poems and dying to meet up, and another one was relentlessly insisting that you date.

So much for being rejected and oppressed by the "sexual marketplace".

[FredEire]

1 minute ago, ZA Dater said:

Well in 10 years and many different profiles the results remain the same, my humour is quite dry so that another problem in person so its not like I can use that either because I then get blank looks as the humour has not been picked up. No problem, I then try another way to engage but eventually I just give up at which point she has already lost interest anyway. 

Or there is someone more fun so that its game over. I liken myself to someone who is useful rather than attractive, I can be useful to people and have a lot to offer in that respect so I need to try make up with that what I lack in attraction.

Nope that makes no sense. People are just going to use a useful person in a friendly/professional manner. They are not suddenly doing to find him incredibly sexy and want to date him or hop into bed with him.

That tactic has never worked and never will, so scrap it. It's pretty much the typical "nice" guy trying to impress a woman by bending over backwards for her and debasing himself in the process.

[ZA Dater]

5 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Also in the space of a couple of days you have told us that a woman was writing you erotic poems and dying to meet up, and another one was relentlessly insisting that you date.

So much for being rejected and oppressed by the "sexual marketplace".

Neither of which were viable people to date as neither was attractive at all. It would be considered a success if I actually felt any want to date those people which I do not. 

[FredEire]

2 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Neither of which were viable people to date as neither was attractive at all. It would be considered a success if I actually felt any want to date those people which I do not. 

That's your judgement, but people do find you attractive, you have not been "rejected by the sexual marketplace".

[ZA Dater]

4 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Nope that makes no sense. People are just going to use a useful person in a friendly/professional manner. They are not suddenly doing to find him incredibly sexy and want to date him or hop into bed with him.

That tactic has never worked and never will, so scrap it. It's pretty much the typical "nice" guy trying to impress a woman by bending over backwards for her and debasing himself in the process.

Agree it does not work for dating but I did it for a few years with very short term degree of minimal success. Nice guy, well I have been told I am too much of that by my own friends so perhaps there is some degree of truth to that. Unfortunately it would seem my chances of getting the "this is my friend" right are much greater than "this is my girlfriend", which is why I think what I offer is more suited to the former than the latter, of course accepting the severe compromises which come with that is difficult, especially because having had a relationship there are part of it that can be really good with the right person.

[ZA Dater]

1 minute ago, FredEire said:

That's your judgement, but people do find you attractive, you have not been "rejected by the sexual marketplace".

Really, well the bar is really very low if that is considered to be "success" Or wait "you must sleep with whoever wants to sleep with you irrespective"?

If nothing else those propositions show is my value is every bit as low as I perceive it to be. 

[Weezy1973]

23 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

How do these issues equate to a lack of interest on OLD? Are you saying the visual requirement in person is different to that on OLD?

People in OLD tend to shoot out of their league because there’s the illusion of endless options. So the “matches” you’re getting are just taking their shot. Although no clue how they’re matching with you unless you’re swiping right on people you’re not attracted to. 
 

As for “visual requirements” being different in person, it’s more that looks aren’t the only factor you’re seeing. So the overall weight of looks goes down. I have a pretty good sense of humour and that got me a fair amount of interest despite my average (or below) looks. But only from women that valued a sense of humour. 
 

In other words, in person, women that find men like you, say stable, intellectually curious, good public speaker etc. attractive, might put all those qualities into the attraction blender with the physical. 
 

But, and here’s the key, there’s not going to be any magical signal that they’re interested in you. The only way to find out is to ask them out on a date or for their phone number. Stop delaying until you have certainty that you won’t be rejected. Rejection won’t kill you. 

[FredEire]

15 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Agree it does not work for dating but I did it for a few years with very short term degree of minimal success. Nice guy, well I have been told I am too much of that by my own friends so perhaps there is some degree of truth to that. Unfortunately it would seem my chances of getting the "this is my friend" right are much greater than "this is my girlfriend", which is why I think what I offer is more suited to the former than the latter, of course accepting the severe compromises which come with that is difficult, especially because having had a relationship there are part of it that can be really good with the right person.

Well by your own admission you've never been with anyone you actually like so what success is that? Successfully getting friend zoned?

[basil67]

6 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Ultimately I got lucky I was never good enough for her.

This is utter BS!

You told us that she ended it because you wouldn't progress the relationship.  Honestly, it's astounding how much you twist stories to suit your own narrative

[FredEire]

13 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Really, well the bar is really very low if that is considered to be "success" Or wait "you must sleep with whoever wants to sleep with you irrespective"?

If nothing else those propositions show is my value is every bit as low as I perceive it to be. 

No, I'm pointing out those women are people who are not so different to all the other women out there and they liked you, so it is possible.

My guess is they probably had severe confidence and personality issues so felt they were compatible with you in that sense and therein lay the attraction. But you always so you are not attracted to women like that, so be better.

If you want a strong, confident, interesting woman you have to be a strong, confident, interesting man.

[basil67]

16 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Really, well the bar is really very low if that is considered to be "success" Or wait "you must sleep with whoever wants to sleep with you irrespective"?

If nothing else those propositions show is my value is every bit as low as I perceive it to be. 

What's this about a low bar?  I thought you don't talk in averages and see everyone as people irrespective of their background.  This is a seriously snotty way to talk about others who actually can see value in you.

[basil67]

3 minutes ago, FredEire said:

My guess is they probably had severe confidence and personality issues so felt they were compatible with you in that sense and therein lay the attraction. But you always so you are not attracted to women like that, so be better.

Indeed - like attracts like.   You're constant failures are because you're trying to find someone who's so much different to yourself.

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Just to get this straight you date people who are interested in your, irrespective if they interest you? 

To be clear most people find mutual attraction, but most people have much more flexible “shades of gray” attraction rather than your black and white attraction. 
 

But any way you slice it none of us dated people that weren’t interested in us at any point. It’s never going to happen and nor should it. Now I’ve seen people give up on finding love but they were content in their decision. I wouldn’t necessarily say happy, but content. 
 

The issue is everything you’ve tried is making you quite obviously unhappy, whether it be OLD, attempts at the friendzone or attempts to just accept that you’ll be single for life. And so not finding love for you seems like it’s a certain path to a life of unhappiness- and it’s the only life you’ve got. What a shame to just live an unhappy life due to your fear of rejection. 

[NuevoYorko]

8 hours ago, Gaeta said:

I would really like you answer this. You seem to have a different definition of what attraction is. 

I certainly can't answer for the OP,  but I have a strong impression from reading 10,308,450,342,288,703 +/- repetitive posts that I "get it."

To the OP, attraction is comparable to "perfection."   Since human beings, especially women, evidently, are objectified to an absolute level, it's akin to buying a rug.  You just want the perfect one.  Why "settle" for something "less" when you know the perfect rug exists?  You've seen it, or at least a picture of it.   You're holding out for that rug.

It really does make a difference when "humanity" is not in the equation at all.