Perspective

[ZA Dater]

6 hours ago, Gaeta said:

You think women want overly confident/arrogant men, who can talk/charm the panties off of them. You think women are not interested in you because you don't look like Chris Hemsworth. You don't understand that there is no one-size-fits-all attraction in dating.

Ok, then kindly explain of none of those things are seemingly important why men who have those personality traits and physical attraction have far greater success? 

Sorry I really cannot buy into this, I have seen this countless times in social settings so clearly there is a great demand for guys who have those. Yes not everyone likes the same but I do believe there are universally attractive traits, this became very clear when I started looking at the whole dating coach thing and more specifically whether dating coaches can actually put themselves in the shoes of their clients.

This week I have spent 45 Min each day on dating apps...do you know how many matches I have recieved. None. Again go back to my pathetic cat fish attempt a few years ago...I I had hundreds of matches si I think the conclusion is pretty obvious.

[ZA Dater]

8 hours ago, basil67 said:

Yes, those things are essential but they are the foundations.  She will also want compatible humour, compatible lifestyle, compatible sexuality, sufficient self confidence and for him to basically have his s*** together.   One cannot live in a home which is only foundations

I'm sure we've had this conversation before.  Does this stuff not stick in your head?

Those others things you mention are apparently irrelevant too in an on online dating world.

 

[basil67]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Those others things you mention are apparently irrelevant too in an on online dating world.

Bullshit!  A guy who has his s*** together will find a girlfriend.  I may not be online, but I've seen plenty of women (both young and old) find success online.   You're just being objectionable because you don't have the skills they want.  

[basil67]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Ok, then kindly explain of none of those things are seemingly important why men who have those personality traits and physical attraction have far greater success? Sorry I really cannot buy into this, I have seen this countless times in social settings so clearly there is a great demand for guys who have those. Yes not everyone likes the same but I do believe there are universally attractive traits, this became very clear when I started looking at the whole dating coach thing and more specifically whether dating coaches can actually put themselves in the shoes of their clients.

Apparently your friends are arseholes - because I don't know any man who fits this description and all are happily married.  Meanwhile you're socialising with these awful men and you seem to believe we think you socialise in a utopia???

Quote

This week I have spent 45 Min each day on dating apps...do you know how many matches I have recieved. None. Again go back to my pathetic cat fish attempt a few years ago...I I had hundreds of matches si I think the conclusion is pretty obvious.

Of course you get no matches.  The conclusion is very obvious and we've told you countless times:  You see most women as being below you - and the ones you do like see you as being below them = hence no results.  It's nobody's fault but your own

Also your cynicism, complaints and constant rejection of advice do you no favours.  In all honesty, if I was in your social group, I would not help you get together with one of my friends....but I guess it's a moot point because you'd think we are all below you anyway

Edited April 6 by basil67

[FredEire]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Ok, then kindly explain of none of those things are seemingly important why men who have those personality traits and physical attraction have far greater success? 

Sorry I really cannot buy into this, I have seen this countless times in social settings so clearly there is a great demand for guys who have those. Yes not everyone likes the same but I do believe there are universally attractive traits, this became very clear when I started looking at the whole dating coach thing and more specifically whether dating coaches can actually put themselves in the shoes of their clients.

This week I have spent 45 Min each day on dating apps...do you know how many matches I have recieved. None. Again go back to my pathetic cat fish attempt a few years ago...I I had hundreds of matches si I think the conclusion is pretty obvious.

Because people gravitate towards confidence, and I'd there's one thing arrogant arseholes are it's stupidly confident, it's much more exciting than the guy moping in the corner.

Having said that there are also guys who are genuinely nice and kind who can carry themselves confidently and don't particularly struggle to get dates. These days having done a lot of work on myself I would consider myself one.

As @basil67 said, stop hanging around these guys. You want practical solutions, there's one. Up your social circle because if you hang around with people who act with contempt for those around them it's going to run off on you. I used to hang around with a load of drug addicted narcissists, but I ditched them and it was one of the best decisions I ever made.

Being a strong, confidence nice guy (genuinely nice not nice only with the aim of getting in womens' pants) is unfortunately more and more rare these days, especially in young guys with incel and PUA thinking taking over the internet. But it's what you have to strive for.

Sorry for stereotyping here but I've also met a few South Africans over the years and it strikes me as a hugely macho culture. So it's not easy, but you have to break the mould. Put guys around you who will raise your vibration not lower it.

[basil67]

1 hour ago, FredEire said:

Being a strong, confidence nice guy (genuinely nice not nice only with the aim of getting in womens' pants) is unfortunately more and more rare these days, especially in young guys with incel and PUA thinking taking over the internet. But it's what you have to strive for.

Thankfully, the more PUA and incel rhetoric get publicised, the more women learn and are able to recognise and avoid

[ZA Dater]

4 hours ago, basil67 said:

Of course you get no matches.  The conclusion is very obvious and we've told you countless times:  You see most women as being below you - and the ones you do like see you as being below them = hence no results.  It's nobody's fault but your own

Also your cynicism, complaints and constant rejection of advice do you no favours.  In all honesty, if I was in your social group, I would not help you get together with one of my friends....but I guess it's a moot point because you'd think we are all below you anyway

Ah yes leagues again. This makes for a wonderful therapy question because every answer will be different. 

Fortunately for me there are no single people in any of my social groups and the set ups that have been suggested were "she is perfect" yeah so perfect the person who says so would not date that person themselves. No thanks.

[Weezy1973]

9 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

…so perfect the person who says so would not date that person themselves. No thanks.

Why does this even matter? I’m not attracted to any of my friends’ wives or girlfriends. Just because I wouldn’t date them doesn’t mean they’re a great match for my friends. 

[Foxhall]

I thought id seek a womans perspective on this  (I have little for doing and all that) - specifically one who has had plenty of attention from guys ( she likes me as a brother which Ive accepted a long time ago)

Confidence in a guy it seems is the key thing.

the moment he stops giving a s*** about his imperfections and just goes straight in approaching those hot women who he thinks he's too boring for by acting confident yet natural, his chances of eventually landing one will dramatically increase. He's gotta get used to a shitload of rejection of course, not brood on those who don't deserve him.

No pain, no gain. No risk, no win.

"Stay afraid, but do it anyway.
What’s important is the action.
You don’t have to wait to be confident.
Just do it, and eventually the confidence will follow."

[BaileyB]

I will simply say, confident is increasingly attractive in a man. Arrogance is not.

A woman may be attracted to a confident man but about 2 minutes into the conversation, it is pretty clear whether that confidence comes with the things the girls were mentioning above - humility, kindness, a sense of humour, a great personality - or whether that confidence comes  with an arrogant man who is self important and entitled. Those men will loose out every. single. time because who wants to spend time with this kind of person - you can’t build a relationship on this kind of foundation.

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

Why does this even matter? I’m not attracted to any of my friends’ wives or girlfriends. Just because I wouldn’t date them doesn’t mean they’re a great match for my friends. 

It does because once again the only merit if this apparently "perfect for me' is based on physical appearance and nothing else.

[Gebidozo]

7 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Ok, then kindly explain of none of those things are seemingly important why men who have those personality traits and physical attraction have far greater success? 

What kind of success do they have? They may seduce more naive, inexperienced, insecure, or simply dumb girls than honest guys. So what? Is that what you want?

I thought you wanted a serious relationship. Then let me tell you that arrogant guys do not have success in serious relationships. Unless, of course, they can just charm and bully a silly girl with no character or own opinion into being together with them. But again, is that what you want? 

Believe me, arrogant, self-important jerks do not have real success. They can’t truly become happy. All their “conquests” are ephemeral and futile. Nice and confident men do have success. That’s what you should strive to become. 
 

Edited April 6 by Gebidozo

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, Gebidozo said:

What kind of success do they have? They may seduce more naive, inexperienced, insecure, or simply dumb girls than honest guys. So what? Is that what you want?

I thought you wanted a serious relationship. Then let me tell you that arrogant guys do not have success in serious relationships. Unless, of course, they can just charm and bully a silly girl with no character or own opinion into being together with them. But again, is that what you want? 

Believe me, arrogant, self-important jerks do not have real success. They can’t truly become happy. All their “conquests” are ephemeral and futile. Nice and confident men do have success. That’s what you should strive to become. 
 

I do not disagree with you however bs spun had landed many a guy I know a fairly decent relationship however your point remains especially valid re some of the people they date, in fact in this respect I think you are spot on.  "No character and own opinion" jumped out at me because again you are right. Granted those two traits can be difficult to find.

I'll be honest, I have thought about ways to build confidence, none of them sit well with me from the point of view of my own standards and moral beliefs.

Of course like some men do there are ladies who chase superficial above all else, I have no chance with those whatsoever whereas people I know generally do well enough to have a choice even if it's a purely superficial one.

You are correct in another thing as people we can strive to be the people we want but at what point is that not good enough when weighted against what society seemingly expects?

[BaileyB]

5 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

You are correct in another thing as people we can strive to be the people we want but at what point is that not good enough when weighted against what society seemingly expects?

OMG! 

We are trying to tell you that your rigid view on what “society expects” is warped! Society doesn’t expect anything - 

But you clearly do…

 

Edited April 6 by BaileyB

[ZA Dater]

12 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

OMG! 

We are trying to tell you that your rigid view on what “society expects” is warped! Society doesn’t expect anything - 

But you clearly do…

 

Clearly it does because if it didn't dating would be easy and everyone could simply pick and choose.

[BaileyB]

15 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Clearly it does because if it didn't dating would be easy and everyone could simply pick and choose.

You think that if it wasn’t for external factors - dating would be easy and you would have your choice of women? 

This is an incredibly unrealistic and simplistic view of relationships and life - both of which are complex and unpredictable. 

 

 

[NuevoYorko]

1 hour ago, Gebidozo said:

I thought you wanted a serious relationship. Then let me tell you that arrogant guys do not have success in serious relationships.

My impression, which has been formed over years of reading the same words over and over from our OP here, is that he perceives a good looking guy who has a hot woman that looks like a model on his arm at some high end auto show to "have it all."  What he sees is all that exists, in his perception, in a "serious relationship."   

His view of women, and human interactions in general, is so simplistic and transactional that it doesn't  touch on the reality of people.  It's as basic as this:  If you have $109,000 USD you can buy a Tesla Model S.  If you don't have $109,000 USD, you are S.O.L.  

That's it.  

 

[BaileyB]

8 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

My impression, which has been formed over years of reading the same words over and over from our OP here, is that he perceives a good looking guy who has a hot woman that looks like a model on his arm at some high end auto show to "have it all."  What he sees is all that exists, in his perception, in a "serious relationship."   

Agree. In his perception, that is “success.”

[FredEire]

17 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

My impression, which has been formed over years of reading the same words over and over from our OP here, is that he perceives a good looking guy who has a hot woman that looks like a model on his arm at some high end auto show to "have it all."  What he sees is all that exists, in his perception, in a "serious relationship."   

His view of women, and human interactions in general, is so simplistic and transactional that it doesn't  touch on the reality of people.  It's as basic as this:  If you have $109,000 USD you can buy a Tesla Model S.  If you don't have $109,000 USD, you are S.O.L.  

That's it.  

 

Also it's akin to a fat, out-of-shape 40-year-old man from Boston who watches the Celtics every week. He sees Jayson Tatum miss a layup and shouts at the TV "you f***ing suck, I could have scored that", and also talks about how easy it is to be a sports player and they all have it made, if only he had played basketball in high school he could have been in the NBA.

He acts like an expert and thinks he knows what players need to be doing in all situations despite the fact he knows nothing about the hard work and graft that top level athletes have to put in, the complex tactics they have to follow and the sacrifices they make to get there. Also he ignores that fact that if he was out there in his current shape he couldn't even jump high enough to score a layup never mind an hour of hard running.

But he's much more comfortable sitting on his couch and yelling at the TV than getting in shape, joining an amateur basketball league and actually getting closer to having some idea what the reality is.

 

Edited April 6 by FredEire

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Clearly it does because if it didn't dating would be easy and everyone could simply pick and choose.

This is also seriously warped! And it doesn’t have anything to do with society. We all have different genetics and life experiences and therefore are attracted to different things. Nobody was put on the planet to be our perfect partner, so despite all of that we also compromise. And our partners compromise on us! And, nobody settled.

Edited April 6 by Weezy1973

[ZA Dater]

28 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

This is also seriously warped! And it doesn’t have anything to do with society. We all have different genetics and life experiences and therefore are attracted to different things. Nobody was put on the planet to be our perfect partner, so despite all of that we also compromise. And our partners compromise on us! And, nobody settled.

Sure and what is too much compromise? 

The bold, OK if that is the case take one in shape guy and take one guy who is not in shape guy who has a better personality, which do you think most people would gravitate towards initially, a very simplistic example which completely calls into question the bold BUT yes we might be attracted to different things but we also possibly attracted to some common things.

 

[ZA Dater]

7 hours ago, FredEire said:

Because people gravitate towards confidence, and I'd there's one thing arrogant arseholes are it's stupidly confident, it's much more exciting than the guy moping in the corner.

Having said that there are also guys who are genuinely nice and kind who can carry themselves confidently and don't particularly struggle to get dates. These days having done a lot of work on myself I would consider myself one.

As @basil67 said, stop hanging around these guys. You want practical solutions, there's one. Up your social circle because if you hang around with people who act with contempt for those around them it's going to run off on you. I used to hang around with a load of drug addicted narcissists, but I ditched them and it was one of the best decisions I ever made.

Being a strong, confidence nice guy (genuinely nice not nice only with the aim of getting in womens' pants) is unfortunately more and more rare these days, especially in young guys with incel and PUA thinking taking over the internet. But it's what you have to strive for.

Sorry for stereotyping here but I've also met a few South Africans over the years and it strikes me as a hugely macho culture. So it's not easy, but you have to break the mould. Put guys around you who will raise your vibration not lower it.

You would be quite correct in that assessment, which I do not conform to. Here the the thing they do not need to show contempt, fun, attractive and add some alcohol and some apparent flirting and well they are all set. OK lets say one does none of this, how do you get the same degree of success.

Lets also conceded that perhaps the sort of the person who likes that wont like a thoughtful, more intellectual guy, how do you bridge that gap, is it even possible to do so? Years of trying suggests this is very difficult to do.

I often ask myself and reflect on what does not work for me and what has sort of worked to varying degrees and from there I think what can be improved so its not like I am trying the same thing which does not work but there are also limits of what I am prepared to go and how much I am prepared to compromise and therein lies the fundamental problem, I'd happily compromise on certain things but as soon as that starts it ends up being a compromise on almost everything. Say I compromise on going out with single mothers, this a fundamental problem as I really do not want kids in my life and there is no way to overcome this. Say I compromise on someone who is unemployed, I then run the risk of doing all the paying which is fine but its not fine if the conversation is not interesting so its a compromise too far.

Would people compromise on me, well that is debatable because its never actually happened. Am I prepared to adapt for someone who does find me attractive, sure provided that attraction was neutral but I am not going to compromise for no purpose. 

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, NuevoYorko said:

My impression, which has been formed over years of reading the same words over and over from our OP here, is that he perceives a good looking guy who has a hot woman that looks like a model on his arm at some high end auto show to "have it all."  What he sees is all that exists, in his perception, in a "serious relationship."   

His view of women, and human interactions in general, is so simplistic and transactional that it doesn't  touch on the reality of people.  It's as basic as this:  If you have $109,000 USD you can buy a Tesla Model S.  If you don't have $109,000 USD, you are S.O.L.  

That's it.  

 

All of which is not true because actually I appreciate intellect and good looks. Not one or the other but both. Oddly I know enough people who oddly end up dating people they actually find attractive who find them attractive, yes mutual attraction, imagine that. Again you equate good looking to model, no middle ground here clearly, yes I have spent time with models and you know what, almost all of them had much better communication skills than the dates I end up going on from OLD AND they have far more confidence. Are they perfect people no, do they have their own horrific dating experiences, yes. Everyone has those. Nobody is perfect. 

Are people easy, I am not an easy person and I sure most people are not.

I still inherently believe a good person is a good person irrespective what they look like, the problem is a good person without attraction is just a friend not a date and despite what I think its clearly not possible cross that divide between friend and relationship. 

Most of the success I have with people in general are those I see often and become familiar with which is a major dating problem where I have 5 minutes to be attractive and get "chosen". 

 

Edited April 6 by ZA Dater

[Gebidozo]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Clearly it does because if it didn't dating would be easy and everyone could simply pick and choose.

And again you talk about people as though they were vegetables in a shop.

”Pick and choose”… Is that how you think dating works? Are you bloody serious? 

[facepalm]

[Gebidozo]

20 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

All of which is not true because actually I appreciate intellect and good looks

So what? You appreciate them like other people appreciate both the speed and the looks of a car. The point is not what you appreciate in women, the point is that you view women as merchandise, and men’s attractiveness as currency. This is a profoundly false view.