Perspective

[ZA Dater]

2 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Wow. Just think about what you've said there for moment.

You're saying nobody who you don't find attractive deserves anything from you.

By your own admission you are not attractive, therefore you deserve absolutely nothing from anything else and you should be perfectly happy about it, if that's how your worldview goes.

Or you could, you know, be open to flirting a bit with the chubby girl who works in the coffee shop because she's a really nice person and it raises your vibration, or having a chat with the granny in the park whose husband passed away because it brightens her day a bit.

But no you must only simp for beautiful women in case they throw a crumb if kindness your way. It makes you come across a bit of a hateful character without a genuine bone in his body, as honest and loyal as you claim to be.

No problem I am happy to own being that person. I'd rather have a crumb of kindness from someone like than have to reject someone I do not like.

I get nothing so deserve nothing, sounds about right to me. Likewise I am not going to give freely and well done you now understand some of my thought process.

I'll chat to people but not go further than that, I don't believe in vibration all either. These I call small talk conversations, like how about the weather.

[ZA Dater]

4 hours ago, FredEire said:

Yes I actually realised this after posting it.

Some people itt have questioned if he's asexual as sex seems very secondary to him and not something he's particularly comfortable with.

The fundamental issue is there's no love in his life, he didn't get it from those around him growing up and so he can't give it to himself.

I believe these superficial requirements he sets up are a safety net because being loved and being able to love himself would teach him how much he has lost.

I can't love myself and those around me because I need to get it from a woman who is X, Y and Z first.

Sex would only be relevant if I were actually attracted to the person overall. Trust the loss is profound each day, you need not worry how much the weighs because it's considerable and this is quite difficult to hide.

Mostly it's being profoundly lonely but again people are in worse positions so I have to accept it. Met up with one of my very close confidants, she is like a big sister to me and she knows me well. The conversation is always profound and I can drop all the armour and yes there is humour. 

I always feel better after these sporadic discussions.

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

What do I bring, absolute loyalty always, absolute committment, absolute support no matter what, a good listening ear, I am very generous and I do take an interest. I know what I can offer but I am not going to offer it to people who I do not find attractive overall.

The lack of insight that you have after all this discussion is frankly astounding. 

There is nothing else to say. 

[FredEire]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

No problem I am happy to own being that person. I'd rather have a crumb of kindness from someone like than have to reject someone I do not like.

I get nothing so deserve nothing, sounds about right to me. Likewise I am not going to give freely and well done you now understand some of my thought process.

I'll chat to people but not go further than that, I don't believe in vibration all either. These I call small talk conversations, like how about the weather.

Haha it's a bit condescending me that you're congratulating me for understanding your mentality like it's some kind of matrix code.

I think myself and a lot of people on here understand your mentality quite well, we just find it quite misguided and built on resentment and pain rather than anything solid.

It's also a bit bizarre how you will proudly and stubbornly defend these views despite seemingly coming here for advice, suggesting you do not want advice you just want to be told you are right.

Worshipping some woman because they are beautiful and treating them better because they're attractive is daft. But there is a huge problem with simps in society so you're not alone there I guess. I found attractive women had a lot more respect for me though once I stopped believing their s*** didn't stink and treating them differently to everyone else.

[basil67]

8 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Or the fact its in fact fundamentally flawed, you cannot blame everyone approach and park the blame on the rejected. It takes two to tango. Might be worthwhile figuring out why they adopted the views they have, what happened to create such radical people, people do not adopt views without external influence and this is true of any point of view. My approach might be wrong but is there in fact any correct dating point of view? 

Re the bolded, flip it around: If a woman hates men because all men have rejected her because she's weird and strange or hideously ugly, it's somehow the men's fault for not giving her a chance?  Using your theory, you should be giving unpleasant or awkward women a chance just so they don't become radicalised.   Do you realise how crazy your theory of 'takes to to tango' is?

As for why the incels have adopted the view they have, the root cause is most of them have poor social skills and cannot connect with women and/or their expectations are so high that they can't find what they want.  Then they start Googling how to find a girlfriend and stumble across other guys in the same situation and they also find a few men who make lots of money by pandering misogyny and telling them that they are entitled to have a woman and that women are terrible for exercising personal choice.  These guys are probably 1 in 200, but the internet has made it easier for the guys to connect and further radicalise each other.    

Yes, there are correct ways to date:  If a person is getting some positive results, they are doing it right.   

Edited May 2 by basil67

[Foxhall]

You have to meet someone who has endured some of the scars of life and has pain in their soul, 

your a deep thinker and reflective personality, so its likely you will connect more closely with a similar personality,

I dont know you could perhaps meet someone like that when your not looking, you could meet them on a train or anywhere ( I just pick that because that is where I met my most suitable)

so I suppose the point is well made dont turn your head the other way , be engaging with every random you meet , 

if you meet someone you find attractive- the question you need to work towards then is can I get a soulful connection here,

 

the who are you question is important- you have to  be able to articulate your hopes dreams and aspirations and be able to listen or extract them thoughts from the other person,

then you have connection.

good luck.

 

Edited May 2 by Foxhall

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, Foxhall said:

your a deep thinker and reflective personality, so its likely you will connect more closely with a similar personality,

With much respect, I would argue to opposite. This discussion lacks depth of thought - it’s pretty much the same superficial and rigid ideology spouted in a repetitive and at this point - frankly predictable manner. I would certainly not say that OP is reflective - he offers the occasional platitude before returning to the same, tired talking points… Not once in this discussion has he even pretended to consider any of the advice offered by any posters… Fifty one pages into a thread that is not the first of it’s kind, and he hasn’t expanded his thinking in any way… that lacks any depth of thought and reflection, IMHO.

Edited May 3 by BaileyB

[NuevoYorko]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Guess what it does feel really nice to spend time around beautiful intelligent, intellectual stimulating people.

You are talking to a few hundred people here - many of whom have spent time with beautiful intelligent people or, who knows, may be such people themselves.   Nobdoy seems to be devoted to the concept that such people are the only ones worth "bothering" with.   

I was here years back when this place was overtaken with PUA knobs.   Perhaps you're a full on throwback to that era.

Quote

What do I bring, absolute loyalty always, absolute committment, absolute support no matter what, a good listening ear, I am very generous and I do take an interest. I know what I can offer but I am not going to offer it to people who I do not find attractive overall.

When have you had the opportunity to put what you "bring" to the test?   As far as we know, you have not had any opportunities to demonstrate these sterling traits in your life, since you don't get dates with supermodels and nobody else is worth your time.

So ... in your imagination you bring absolute loyalty, commitment, support, good listening, generosity.  When you are with the fairytale goddess of your fantasies, that is.  Some day.

Edited May 3 by NuevoYorko

[ZA Dater]

18 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

You are talking to a few hundred people here - many of whom have spent time with beautiful intelligent people or, who knows, may be such people themselves.   Nobdoy seems to be devoted to the concept that such people are the only ones worth "bothering" with.   

I was here years back when this place was overtaken with PUA knobs.   Perhaps you're a full on throwback to that era.

When have you had the opportunity to put what you "bring" to the test?   As far as we know, you have not had any opportunities to demonstrate these sterling traits in your life, since you don't get dates with supermodels and nobody else is worth your time.

So ... in your imagination you bring absolute loyalty, commitment, support, good listening, generosity.  When you are with the fairytale goddess of your fantasies, that is.  Some day.

Quite correct, no opportunities worth while demonstrating any of those qualities with. Again correct I am not going to bother with people I am not attracted to. People don't suddenly become attractive over time and you know what nobody has given me any sort of chance so I see no reason to do the same.

 

[ZA Dater]

35 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

With much respect, I would argue to opposite. This discussion lacks depth of thought - it’s pretty much the same superficial and rigid ideology spouted in a repetitive and at this point - frankly predictable manner. I would certainly not say that OP is reflective - he offers the occasional platitude before returning to the same, tired talking points… Not once in this discussion has he even pretended to consider any of the advice offered by any posters… Fifty one pages into a thread that is not the first of it’s kind, and he hasn’t expanded his thinking in any way… that lacks any depth of thought and reflection, IMHO.

Much of the advice revolves around " well give abc a chance, maybe they will become attractive" or " well you know other people can be nice too" or " well superficial is not important". 

The reflection is have is quite clearly what I find attractive is not shared by anyone in this thread at all. 

I always gave myself a set life plan how I wanted to date, it's not worked so I can throw the book away. At least I can say I have met people I wanted to date, many with remarkable personalities. Again a crumb of cake for me is better than a slice of bread.

It's gratifying people here offer advice, which I mostly do not agree with, they all seem to be dating exactly the people they want so good for them, clearly the advice dispatched works well.

For me dating will never work with people that make me feel nothing. Attention from someone unattractive is attention I can frankly do without.

It's just regrettable I'll never actually experience positive, the last chance I gave myself has predictably ended in total rejection and the promise I made myself 20 odd years ago was when I met someone like that, who had almost everything I find attractive, if it didn't work I would then give up for good. Nobody will understand this but it's just the way it is. Ultimately I am just not good enough. Good enough for all the people I find totally unattractive.

I'll try find something else in life to fill that void because someone here is right there isn't much love in my life. I'll just care about those close to me and just learn to accept a near total loss at romance. 

Mostly I get looked down at for always being single, mocked because I can't get laid.

No positive in any of this, again someone is right so can I really be criticised for enjoying the company of people I do find attractive? Even if it's never going to be mutual attraction?

 

 

 

[NuevoYorko]

Do you think of yourself as a superficial person?  

[BaileyB]

57 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

It's gratifying people here offer advice, which I mostly do not agree with, they all seem to be dating exactly the people they want so good for them, clearly the advice dispatched works well.

Platitudes. 
 

57 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

For me dating will never work with people that make me feel nothing. Attention from someone unattractive is attention I can frankly do without.

And back to the same old talking points…
 

57 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

It's just regrettable I'll never actually experience positive

With a little self pity for good measure…

Predictable. 

I do feel sorry for you because you can’t get out of your own way long enough to find anything that might resemble happiness… That’s really sad. 

Edited May 3 by BaileyB

[ZA Dater]

29 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

Do you think of yourself as a superficial person?  

Yes to a degree. Its been proven over and over again superficial things matter. It's a lovely narrative to pretend they don't.

I've seen the attention good looking guy's and ladies get and I've seen the opposite too. It's just how the world works.

[ZA Dater]

12 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

I do feel sorry for you because you can’t get out of your own way long enough to find anything that might resemble happiness… That’s really sad. 

It is what it is.  Unfortunately not everyone gets to experience that. 

I get incredibly small doses of it very sporadically and you know what it does feel good. It's just not attainable for me overall. 

My biggest mistake was dating apps and my second biggest mistake was actually believing I could beat the odds and attract someone I really liked. Singularly that's what hurts most, the shame of never being good enough.

I'd have loved to take this latest interest on a date, part of me thinks it would go well because we communicate well but then I remember I am unattractive and low value. Whereas she is super high value.

All I wish for everyone  around me and that includes the ever patient posters here is to simply find happiness. 

 

[basil67]

40 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Yes to a degree. Its been proven over and over again superficial things matter. It's a lovely narrative to pretend they don't.

I think superficial things exist in your social circle - and this is why you say superficial matters.

But superficial things certainly don't exist in my life and the lives of my friends and this is why I say it doesn't matter.   Of course, you'd never lower yourself to being friends with people like me or my lot, so you'll never know what it's like to be with people who aren't superficial

 

 

[ZA Dater]

17 minutes ago, basil67 said:

I think superficial things exist in your social circle - and this is why you say superficial matters.

But superficial things certainly don't exist in my life and the lives of my friends and this is why I say it doesn't matter.   Of course, you'd never lower yourself to being friends with people like me or my lot, so you'll never know what it's like to be with people who aren't superficial

 

 

With respect OLD is the best example of where superficial matters above all else.

[basil67]

22 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

With respect OLD is the best example of where superficial matters above all else.

Says the king of superficiality ^

Yet, I know average looking people with average looking partners who met on OLD and are happily living their lives together.  Again, you wouldn't want to be friends with them either because they aren't pretty enough or worldly enough for you.

 

Edited May 3 by basil67

[ZA Dater]

29 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Says the king of superficiality ^

Yet, I know average looking people with average looking partners who met on OLD and are happily living their lives together.  Again, you wouldn't want to be friends with them either because they aren't pretty enough or worldly enough for you.

 

Just depends on what a person finds attractive I guess.

[basil67]

12 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Just depends on what a person finds attractive I guess.

Exactly.   You're looking foolish for being bothered about others being superficial when you're just as bad as they are.  Meanwhile there are plenty of others who have more flexibility in what they find attractive and they can find success

Edited May 3 by basil67

[OKtoday]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Quite correct, no opportunities worth while demonstrating any of those qualities with. Again correct I am not going to bother with people I am not attracted to. People don't suddenly become attractive over time and you know what nobody has given me any sort of chance so I see no reason to do the same.

 

 

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

It is what it is.  Unfortunately not everyone gets to experience that. 

I get incredibly small doses of it very sporadically and you know what it does feel good. It's just not attainable for me overall. 

My biggest mistake was dating apps and my second biggest mistake was actually believing I could beat the odds and attract someone I really liked. Singularly that's what hurts most, the shame of never being good enough.

I'd have loved to take this latest interest on a date, part of me thinks it would go well because we communicate well but then I remember I am unattractive and low value. Whereas she is super high value.

All I wish for everyone  around me and that includes the ever patient posters here is to simply find happiness. 

 

No, your biggest mistake was thinking that it was your looks and inexperience that was holding you back when it was something completely different.

[basil67]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Singularly that's what hurts most, the shame of never being good enough.

Of course, this must be tempered by remembering just how small the sample of your preferred woman was.  If you were open to many kinds of women, the rejection would be much greater.  

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, OKtoday said:

 

No, your biggest mistake was thinking that it was your looks and inexperience that was holding you back when it was something completely different.

Those things don't help.

[ZA Dater]

9 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Of course, this must be tempered by remembering just how small the sample of your preferred woman was.  If you were open to many kinds of women, the rejection would be much greater.  

Exactly so would have been much worse over a bigger number of people.

[ExpatInItaly]

I think you love the attention you get from posters in these rambling threads, OP. 

[basil67]

7 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

I think you love the attention you get from posters in these rambling threads, OP. 

Poster saying things which they know will make others react strongly.  There's a word for that and I've often wondered if it's happening here