Perspective

[NuevoYorko]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Yes to a degree. Its been proven over and over again superficial things matter. It's a lovely narrative to pretend they don't.

Uh ... whoever said that superficial things don't matter?

Your problem is that you lack depth of any kind.   Yes.  it's a problem to engage with all of your life solely on a superficial level.   

I, as well as plenty of other people have said that we also need to be attracted to someone in order to pursue a relationship.   You stand alone, though, in your stance that only gorgeous vivacious women are worth dealing with in life.   

That's superficiality on a whole new level.  

 

[ExpatInItaly]

24 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Poster saying things which they know will make others react strongly.  There's a word for that and I've often wondered if it's happening here

It's rather obvious at this point, eh? 

[FredEire]

8 hours ago, BaileyB said:

With much respect, I would argue to opposite. This discussion lacks depth of thought - it’s pretty much the same superficial and rigid ideology spouted in a repetitive and at this point - frankly predictable manner. I would certainly not say that OP is reflective - he offers the occasional platitude before returning to the same, tired talking points… Not once in this discussion has he even pretended to consider any of the advice offered by any posters… Fifty one pages into a thread that is not the first of it’s kind, and he hasn’t expanded his thinking in any way… that lacks any depth of thought and reflection, IMHO.

Totally agree, that ain't OP.

I know plenty of individuals who maybe lack social skills but are really deep thinkers with a lot of interesting perspectives.

On the contrast I feel like OP would be deeply boring to have a beer with as he would come with a set box of topics to do with business and politics and stepping outside these bounds would distress him.

He may well be intelligent but there's not many signs of flexibility or deep thinking outside the box. That's his comfort blanket.

[Weezy1973]

On 5/2/2024 at 1:32 AM, ZA Dater said:

Yes and having no requirements is simply settling.

It’s not an extreme. If people genuinely have fewer superficial preferences, they are going to have an easier time dating. If you’re attracted to 95% of women, you’ll have a much easier time finding someone compatible than if you’re only attracted to 1% of women. And there wouldn’t be any settling required because you would genuinely be attracted to them. 
 

Also I’d argue in actuality nobody settles. Everybody just makes choices that they believe will make them happy. In retrospect some people might look at a relationship with an ex and see that they ignored all sorts of red flags etc. when choosing that partner, but in the moment at the time they weren’t settling. 
 

As far as whether superficial traits matter, they matter in the sense that like attracts like. You would refuse to date someone like yourself. You’re not warm and you’ve described yourself as ugly. These are dealbreakers for you. So because you refuse to date someone on your level, you not surprisingly have no success. 
 

But really that’s the only area superficial traits matter. If you talk to a couple that have been happily married for 20 years what the secret to their successful relationship is, the answer will never be anything superficial. In that sense superficial stuff doesn’t matter. 

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

It’s not an extreme. If people genuinely have fewer superficial preferences, they are going to have an easier time dating. If you’re attracted to 95% of women, you’ll have a much easier time finding someone compatible than if you’re only attracted to 1% of women. And there wouldn’t be any settling required because you would genuinely be attracted to them. 
 

Also I’d argue in actuality nobody settles. Everybody just makes choices that they believe will make them happy. In retrospect some people might look at a relationship with an ex and see that they ignored all sorts of red flags etc. when choosing that partner, but in the moment at the time they weren’t settling. 
 

As far as whether superficial traits matter, they matter in the sense that like attracts like. You would refuse to date someone like yourself. You’re not warm and you’ve described yourself as ugly. These are dealbreakers for you. So because you refuse to date someone on your level, you not surprisingly have no success. 
 

But really that’s the only area superficial traits matter. If you talk to a couple that have been happily married for 20 years what the secret to their successful relationship is, the answer will never be anything superficial. In that sense superficial stuff doesn’t matter. 

Yeah after 20 years it would not matter but sure of heck did matter when they first met. I often wonder about people who date with no criteria, do they do it willingly or do they do it because they realize they are unlikely to find someone who does actually match their criteria. Why would someone want to do someone on their level? Honestly when you were dating did you evaluate each potential date to ensure they were on your level?

I do believe desperate people end up settling, perhaps not by intention but simply because they just force themselves to like anyone who shows a modicum of interest. I have been on dates with desperate people and the level of over compromise is truly startling. 

The bold is very true and it cuts both ways. I know what makes me happy and what does not.

[ZA Dater]

2 hours ago, FredEire said:

Totally agree, that ain't OP.

I know plenty of individuals who maybe lack social skills but are really deep thinkers with a lot of interesting perspectives.

On the contrast I feel like OP would be deeply boring to have a beer with as he would come with a set box of topics to do with business and politics and stepping outside these bounds would distress him.

He may well be intelligent but there's not many signs of flexibility or deep thinking outside the box. That's his comfort blanket.

Incorrect I like different topics and more than that I like people who have a passion for something, be it animals, arts, volunteering, sport and they can speak about that topic, sadly very few dates I have been on have been passionate about seemingly anything. Heck I once met up with someone who like to knit, which I found interesting because its a more unusual hobby these days and that was a genuinely interesting chat. My ex was very good at talking on lots of topics and in that sense it worked really well.

 

Edited May 3 by ZA Dater

[NuevoYorko]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

sadly very few dates I have been on have been passionate about seemingly anything. 

 

Bro.   You have NO IDEA what these people have been passionate about in their lives, because most of us don't open up with strangers immediately.  Especially when that stranger (you)  has no social skills themselves,  makes no effort to engage (since she is not a 10)  and  is giving off vibes that they think you are not worth "bothering" with.  

[Weezy1973]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I often wonder about people who date with no criteria, do they do it willingly or do they do it because they realize they are unlikely to find someone who does actually match their criteria.

Save for cultures with arranged marriages, this doesn’t happen. I think many, many folks (like yourself) focus way too much on superficial qualities, but nobody dates with no criteria at all.

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Why would someone want to do someone on their level?

Most people date because they want to have a partner in their life. Their lives are better shared with a partner. And most relationships involve partners that are equal in attractiveness. And just like you would never date someone less attractive than yourself, neither will anyone else. So that leaves being alone for life, or being with someone at your same level of attractiveness. 
 

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Honestly when you were dating did you evaluate each potential date to ensure they were on your level?

No. If they met a minimum level of attraction for me I would go on a date. I had very few superficial criteria. I think I mentioned them before but they were: not overweight, feminine (in the broadest of senses), and intelligent. And that was it. All my other criteria were actually meaningful stuff that actually matters in a relationship. Someone can easily have all the superficial qualities I was attracted to and still be a terrible human being. That’s why the superficial stuff is meaningless in a relationship. 

[ZA Dater]

2 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

 

Most people date because they want to have a partner in their life. Their lives are better shared with a partner. And most relationships involve partners that are equal in attractiveness. And just like you would never date someone less attractive than yourself, neither will anyone else. So that leaves being alone for life, or being with someone at your same level of attractiveness. 

On the assumption the last part is true I have no real further interest in dating. I honestly do not think people can equate each other's attractiveness to be the same.

Oddly I cannot even attract people with a similar build to me so it's actually just highly amusing.

I am sure lives are better shared with the right person, not everyone finds that person or us entitled to that.

Again I set myself an idea, it has not worked and likely won't ever work so I'll just own this lonely life. It's just really hard to meet people who I find really attractive but also know they'll never be interested. This latest person is amazing but no surprise she found a new bf pretty quickly.

I wish you all happiness always, sincerely.

[basil67]

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Oddly I cannot even attract people with a similar build to me so it's actually just highly amusing.

Why is it odd and amusing?  Given your long list of what a woman must have, surely you realise there's far more to attraction than one's body shape.  

 

[NuevoYorko]

3 hours ago, basil67 said:

Why is it odd and amusing?  Given your long list of what a woman must have, surely you realise there's far more to attraction than one's body shape.  

I  have the unfortunate impression that the OP feels like he needs to offer very little to women besides, I guess, the fact that he's a well employed white man.  And not fat.  Meanwhile,  the women are supposed to be virtual pageant queens in order to be worth "bothering with."  

An unresolvable conundrum.   

[ZA Dater]

4 hours ago, basil67 said:

Why is it odd and amusing?  Given your long list of what a woman must have, surely you realise there's far more to attraction than one's body shape.  

 

Because I simply find it amusing. My list actually isn't that long either nor is it unrealistic.

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, NuevoYorko said:

I  have the unfortunate impression that the OP feels like he needs to offer very little to women besides, I guess, the fact that he's a well employed white man.  And not fat.  Meanwhile,  the women are supposed to be virtual pageant queens in order to be worth "bothering with."  

An unresolvable conundrum.   

Again not true. As for last comment, yeah that's probably true unfortunately.

I think probably the difference how I approach this has changed over the years from going on dates with anyone who matched to going on almost none now because I simply am not wasting time with people there is no mutual attraction with.

Unless I find that, which seems highly unlikely I won't be going on any dates. The odd friendly interaction will have to suffice.

[basil67]

30 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Because I simply find it amusing. My list actually isn't that long either nor is it unrealistic.

Still can’t see why it’s amusing.  That said, if your list was realistic, you’d have had girlfriends right now.  

[NuevoYorko]

How about this:  You learn how to embody all the qualities you require in a woman that renders her worth "bothering" with.   

Maybe give yourself a year to hone these skills, get a makeover, a dating coach or similar to help you learn how to be social in an appropriate way.

Oh.  Never mind.  I forgot that you are categorically opposed to do anything towards "self improvement."  

You want and "deserve" a perfect female companion but you will do nothing to meet someone at that level.  

So ... 

Living doll?   Lifelike robot?

[ZA Dater]

42 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Still can’t see why it’s amusing.  That said, if your list was realistic, you’d have had girlfriends right now.  

It's very realistic and I have met many people who I find attractive. Unfortunately they have zero interest in me.

[basil67]

3 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

It's very realistic and I have met many people who I find attractive. Unfortunately they have zero interest in me.

And this is why your list is unrealistic.   There certainly are women are out there like you describe, but as you're well aware, they are looking for more than you have to offer.

Realistic is someone who's like you:  Slim but not pretty.  Smart but socially awkward.   You keep forgetting yourself and desiring things which are outside your league

Edited May 4 by basil67

[ZA Dater]

8 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

How about this:  You learn how to embody all the qualities you require in a woman that renders her worth "bothering" with.   

Maybe give yourself a year to hone these skills, get a makeover, a dating coach or similar to help you learn how to be social in an appropriate way.

Oh.  Never mind.  I forgot that you are categorically opposed to do anything towards "self improvement."  

You want and "deserve" a perfect female companion but you will do nothing to meet someone at that level.  

So ... 

Living doll?   Lifelike robot?

😂 I've been attempting to hone those skills for years but is as ugly is, can't overcome that one unfortunately. As for social, no issues there. Am quite capable of interacting with people.

I deserve nothing and am entitled to nothing.

[basil67]

1 minute ago, ZA Dater said:

😂 I've been attempting to hone those skills for years but is as ugly is, can't overcome that one unfortunately. As for social, no issues there. Am quite capable of interacting with people.

I deserve nothing and am entitled to nothing.

Says the guy who stands on the peripheral of events clutching his glass of water and goes home as soon as it's appropriate

Of course you don't deserve anything and you're not entitled to anything either.  Nobody else is, so why would you be an exception? 

[ZA Dater]

Just now, basil67 said:

And this is why your list is unrealistic.   There certainly are women are out there like you describe, but as you're well aware, they are looking for more than you have to offer.

Realistic is someone who's like you:  Slim but not pretty.  Smart but socially awkward. 

Not interested in those people at all. The level of interaction is very poor always and again I have to try and lead the entire conversation and there is no physical attraction either. 

One of the things I find most attractive is confidence.

I'd rather just have nothing and hope one day I can actually get it right or have nothing and perhaps the few odd interactions with people I do find attractive. Again it's a need versus want, practically I actually do not need anyone at all. Am I missing out, yes drastically so and that does bother me but honestly over compromise does not interest me either.

It's about working out that acceptable level of loss in terms of not experiencing life.

[ZA Dater]

3 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Says the guy who stands on the peripheral of events clutching his glass of water and goes home as soon as it's appropriate

Of course you don't deserve anything and you're not entitled to anything either.  Nobody else is, so why would you be an exception? 

Not an exception at all. Well not drinking makes one a social pariah here anyway so it hardly matters what I do because maybe 2% of the ladies are single and 20% of the men are, all of which are more fun and attractive than me so why should I even bother.

[basil67]

5 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Not interested in those people at all. The level of interaction is very poor always and again I have to try and lead the entire conversation and there is no physical attraction either. 

One of the things I find most attractive is confidence.

I'd rather just have nothing and hope one day I can actually get it right or have nothing and perhaps the few odd interactions with people I do find attractive. Again it's a need versus want, practically I actually do not need anyone at all. Am I missing out, yes drastically so and that does bother me but honestly over compromise does not interest me either.

It's about working out that acceptable level of loss in terms of not experiencing life.

This is my whole point. Why would a woman reach out to you on the basis of having the same body type as her when you’ve got nothing else which interests her?   (Rhetorical question) 

So yeah, why is it funny when you wouldn’t do the same in return? 

[ZA Dater]

4 minutes ago, basil67 said:

This is my whole point. Why would a woman reach out to you on the basis of having the same body type as her when you’ve got nothing else which interests her?   (Rhetorical question) 

So yeah, why is it funny when you wouldn’t do the same in return? 

It's not about body type alone.

[basil67]

Just now, ZA Dater said:

It's not about body type alone.

Exactly!  So why is it amusing that a woman wouldn’t swipe right simply because you have same body shape?

[ZA Dater]

Ultimately the only way I could ever make it work and I realised this year's ago is to start off a friend's and somehow advance things from there because that way the person can get to know me. It's very difficult to impress people in five minutes which is where it's a total loss when I go up against the fun type of guy but people who know me well do comment I have some good qualities.

Unfortunately friendzone to relationship seems nearly impossible.