Perspective

[ZA Dater]

8 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

Why did you break your rule and "settle" this one time for a woman that you did not feel attracted to?    You've waffled quite a bit between whether this was a good or a dismal experience for you. We all know how you despise the concept of "settling."  

 If it was weighted towards the "good," even though she was not worthy of you as far as her appearance goes, I'm wondering why you might not experiment with dating less than modelesque women again sometime.  

Because that lesson taught me without physical attraction the entire relationship does not work so no it's not something I am going to be doing again.

You know what I also thought ok people keep telling me it will grow over time so let's try and guess what it doesn't.

Lesson learnt.

[basil67]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

You know what I also thought ok people keep telling me it will grow over time so let's try and guess what it doesn't.

I don’t know who you are quoting, but again, nobody here has said that.  WHT has been said it that it can grow over time.  

The more you misquote, the less credibility you retain 

[FredEire]

12 hours ago, basil67 said:

Further, why is it so important that a partner can talk in depth on world affairs?  Could you not share discussions on daily life?  Such as friends, family, gym, sports, cars, things of local interest, planning holidays, sharing stories, domestic policy, animal welfare, climate change, trying new foods, going to restaurants, history, future....the list of topics is endless.  And if you can't do this and are really only happy talking on one topic, then the problem is you.  Not society

My partner and I have a number of different interests which don't intersect, so we discuss those interests online and with friends who share the interest.  I'm never going to be interested in soccer and guitars and he's never going to be interested in domestic arts.  But we've still got plenty of random things still to talk about. 

 

I'd never actually get into world affairs on a first or even second or third date. Firstly because politics is a dodgy territory these days that I'd rather not argue about with people I barely know, but also because it's a totally impersonal subject when the objective should be to get to know the person. I could care less what their stance on Israel vs Palestine when I don't even know about their hobbies and interests, sense of humour etc.

If I went on a date and the girl launched into a Trump vs Biden debate it would be very off-putting. Another example of OP having questionable social skills but concluding the problem is the world and not him.

Edited May 11 by FredEire

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, FredEire said:

I'd never actually get into world affairs on a first or even second or third date. Firstly because politics is a dodgy territory these days that I'd rather not argue about with people I barely know, but also because it's a totally impersonal subject when the objective should be to get to know the person. I could care less what their stance on Israel vs Palestine when I don't even know about their hobbies and interests, sense of humour etc.

If I went on a date and the girl launched into a Trump vs Biden debate it would be very off-putting. Another example of OP having questionable social skills but concluding the problem is the world and not him.

Yeah well there is only so much I can take hearing about their dog or my absolute worst of all hearing about their friends problems.

I expect people to at least have an opinion on the world around them but more often than not it seems that is too much to expect to. Flip have an opinion on tour favourite meal or least favourite season, just display something. Again very difficult to find.

Ultimately a date needs to have free flowing conversation and if that's not present it's very unpleasant. I've had better conversations with people I am not on dates with. Odd that.

[ZA Dater]

19 hours ago, basil67 said:

Hmm..."water off a ducks back".   This explains why in all the years of posting you've done here, you've learned absolutely nothing from our advice.  You've learned so little that you constantly misquote and misinterpret so many things we've written.

It's not just about attraction.  Have you ever considered that she may have been tailoring the conversation to you and your interests out of courtesy?   As you've discovered yourself, this is what one has to do when they are with another and the conversation doesn't flow so easily.  

I daresay that some of the women who've been interested in dating you further weren't aware that you were tailoring conversations to their interests just to keep the conversation going. 

Well no because unlike almost every other interaction this particular person actually asked about me and the conversation was two sided so yes it does make a difference and yes the conversation flowed very nicely and has done every time we have spent any time communicating.

However I am not attractive so its irrelevant. At least I know how nice it can be, that is some comfort.

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Yeah well there is only so much I can take hearing about their dog or my absolute worst of all hearing about their friends problems.

There is a whole world of interesting topics of conversation to be had between world affairs and their friends problems…

 

 

[FredEire]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Yeah well there is only so much I can take hearing about their dog or my absolute worst of all hearing about their friends problems.

I expect people to at least have an opinion on the world around them but more often than not it seems that is too much to expect to. Flip have an opinion on tour favourite meal or least favourite season, just display something. Again very difficult to find.

Ultimately a date needs to have free flowing conversation and if that's not present it's very unpleasant. I've had better conversations with people I am not on dates with. Odd that.

Talking about your dog or your friends problems is very normal first date stuff, talking about wars and elections isn't.

More than likely it's just the girl feeling awkward and trying to connect by sharing some personal information, maybe you also have a dog or an annoying flatmate and can bond over that.

Instead you get on your high horse because she isn't talking about world affairs, which when you bring it up probably makes the conversation feel weird and awkward.

[ZA Dater]

17 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Talking about your dog or your friends problems is very normal first date stuff, talking about wars and elections isn't.

More than likely it's just the girl feeling awkward and trying to connect by sharing some personal information, maybe you also have a dog or an annoying flatmate and can bond over that.

Instead you get on your high horse because she isn't talking about world affairs, which when you bring it up probably makes the conversation feel weird and awkward.

Yes as we have established I am 100% to blame for every bad date. Then again 95% of them were with people I had ostensibly no interest in from the outset so I guess it all balances out quite nicely. Its one thing to share info, quite another to not ask anything about me, frankly I am very thankful I never have to go through that sort of date again because it really does not matter how physically attractive someone is that immediately makes me disinterested. 

Once again I do not dwell on the topic but I merely want to see if someone has an opinion.

You right it does become weird when the person has no opinions to offer,  at which point I just find whatever topic the person can talk about and talk about that until a suitable time has elapsed and I can grab the bill.  I had had the misfortune to sit through more than a few dinners like this and never again thank you very much.

[ZA Dater]

27 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

There is a whole world of interesting topics of conversation to be had between world affairs and their friends problems…

Sure and it would be nice if I do not need to lead the conversation 100% of the time. I have not had one OLD date where this was not the case (ok there was one but she arrived at the date tipsy and left very drunk but even then conversation was actually pretty good) .

A conversation which does not flow makes for a very awkward time, do you agree in that respect? Once again when I tried to date I wanted to try find something the other person had an interest in and enquire more about that in order for them to feel comfortable but this proved to be mostly impossible. Compare this great conversations I have had with people I did find attractive, these were not dates but conversations which just flowed easily and multiple topics were covered, personal life etc. The difference here was people were actually interested and engaged in the conversation.

Most of the dates I went on the people were not engaged but I guess I must accept the blame for that too. The entire point is they were never actually interested, in retrospect that was  very obvious for almost all of the date I had. Its quite a different matter when there is good eye contact, the conversation flows, its a two sided conversation. The problem, I've never had that on a date and the reason is obvious I am not attractive in a romantic way but interesting in a conversational one and its THIS reason why I do not bother asking people out with whom I have had good conversations (besides the fact most were not single).

I might be stupid but even I can see when there is no romantic interest at all, I just need to see the way ladies behave with my friends, the interaction when they are interested is no something I ever get. Instead I am put in a figurative corner, I can bet you if you asked this recent person she would say "he is interesting, well spoken and smart but I am not attracted to him". Why would that person ever go on a date with me, she might go to lunch as my friend but would never do anything else. 

 

 

[FredEire]

17 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Yes as we have established I am 100% to blame for every bad date. Then again 95% of them were with people I had ostensibly no interest in from the outset so I guess it all balances out quite nicely. Its one thing to share info, quite another to not ask anything about me, frankly I am very thankful I never have to go through that sort of date again because it really does not matter how physically attractive someone is that immediately makes me disinterested. 

Once again I do not dwell on the topic but I merely want to see if someone has an opinion.

You right it does become weird when the person has no opinions to offer,  at which point I just find whatever topic the person can talk about and talk about that until a suitable time has elapsed and I can grab the bill.  I had had the misfortune to sit through more than a few dinners like this and never again thank you very much.

Well guess what good luck because I think the chances of a meeting a girl who would bring up the Yemen conflict rather than her dog or friends on a first date is slim to none. That goes for the full spectrum of looks from very beautiful to deeply unattractive.

You have to acknowledge that this is just what the vast majority of people feel comfortable talking about. Surely if you dig the girl it's understandable that she would talk about such topics? There's many dates I've sat through a girl talking to me about her cat and I wasn't particularly fascinated but I liked her company and wanted to stick around. It's just basic social skills.

I'm more and more convinced that your experience of people who are poor conversation on dates and the reality are two very different things. It's a lack of understanding that other human beings don't all fit the image you want them to fit in to. Extremely rigid thinking.

Edited May 11 by FredEire

[ZA Dater]

15 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Well guess what good luck because I think the chances of a meeting a girl who would bring up the Yemen conflict rather than her dog or friends on a first date is slim to none. That goes for the full spectrum of looks from very beautiful to deeply unattractive.

You have to acknowledge that this is just what the vast majority of people feel comfortable talking about. Surely if you dig the girl it's understandable that she would talk about such topics? There's many dates I've sat through a girl talking to me about her cat and I wasn't particularly fascinated but I liked her company and wanted to stick around. It's just basic social skills.

I'm more and more convinced that your experience of people who are poor conversation on dates and the reality are two very different things. It's a lack of understanding that other human beings don't all fit the image you want them to fit in to. Extremely rigid thinking.

Fortunately I have the choice and while I do no expect people to bring up those topic it would be nice if they had some sort of opinion on the world around them, I am not asking for 30 minutes of intense conversation on the border crisis for example but at least have some sort of opinion on something. 

OK so once she stopped talking about her cat was what followed more interesting? 

Lets first admit most of the date I went on I went on for no other reason than I hoped the person would be more attractive overall in person, almost none were of the "wow I really need to meet her quickly" so I lacked any sort of enthusiasm from the off. The result was I frankly did not care what the outcome was. There was an au pair I went out with she spent two hours telling me about the kids she looked after and after that told me there was no chemistry, she is still single and still on dating sites.....8 years later.

The best conversation I have is never on dates, its never with people who are into me romantically, that is quite telling I think. Hence the reason I can throw dating away because if I had to choose I'd rather stand talking to someone who really communicates well, engages in a conversation, shows interest and actually asks me questions than sit on dates with people who do none of those things while I ask them questions and try to actually get to know them. Every single person I have found attractive has had the ability to engage in good conversation and engage and more than that ask questions and I think its because its never set against the backdrop of romantic expectations, they do not find me attractive so its just a conversation nothing more. You expect me to ask these people on dates'? Clearly that wont ever work.

[SoulCat]

13 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Because that lesson taught me without physical attraction the entire relationship does not work so no it's not something I am going to be doing again.

You know what I also thought ok people keep telling me it will grow over time so let's try and guess what it doesn't.

Lesson learnt.

You didn't actually answer the question that @NuevoYorkoposed.

As usual, you just waffle on and on and on, regurgitating your standard stuff about attraction that no-one is disagreeing with you about.

 

 

[ZA Dater]

5 minutes ago, SoulCat said:

You didn't actually answer the question that @NuevoYorkoposed.

As usual, you just waffle on and on and on, regurgitating your standard stuff about attraction that no-one is disagreeing with you about.

 

 

Lesson learnt I will not date someone I do not find physically attractive. So no, I wont be doing that again. I did it that time because you know what actually I read and do take advice on board but the reality is its not possible to date without the physical attraction part.

Also in that particular instance the conversational part was really good and there was some degree of shared common ground so it did work from that perspective. I did care and to this day I know she deserved more than I could give and fortunately she has found that with her new bf and she is very happy with him, I know this because we still chat from time to time. 

Me, I found someone amazing too but as per usual its one sided. 

[NuevoYorko]

18 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Lesson learnt I will not date someone I do not find physically attractive. So no, I wont be doing that again.

You've already assured us all (probably more than 1,000 different times - and I am being literal) that you will not date AT ALL again.

So what are you going to do about your full time hobby of trolling for attention and pity?   Will you come up with a different angle?  

[SoulCat]

24 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Lesson learnt I will not date someone I do not find physically attractive. So no, I wont be doing that again. I did it that time because you know what actually I read and do take advice on board but the reality is its not possible to date without the physical attraction part.

Also in that particular instance the conversational part was really good and there was some degree of shared common ground so it did work from that perspective. I did care and to this day I know she deserved more than I could give and fortunately she has found that with her new bf and she is very happy with him, I know this because we still chat from time to time. 

Me, I found someone amazing too but as per usual its one sided. 

For the love of gravy, stop, just stop repeating that you don't want to date someone you're not attracted to. We know, we get it!

I don't think anyone is advocating that you should. Maybe people have suggested that attraction can build over time, but you've shot down those suggestions fairly swiftly, as is your prerogative.

As much as you are now crapping on your last and only relationship, when you were in it and posting here, you came across here most happy and positive you ever have in all of your thousands of posts.

Now you are just back to the same, tired old bollocks.

Edited May 11 by SoulCat

[FredEire]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Fortunately I have the choice and while I do no expect people to bring up those topic it would be nice if they had some sort of opinion on the world around them, I am not asking for 30 minutes of intense conversation on the border crisis for example but at least have some sort of opinion on something. 

OK so once she stopped talking about her cat was what followed more interesting? 

Lets first admit most of the date I went on I went on for no other reason than I hoped the person would be more attractive overall in person, almost none were of the "wow I really need to meet her quickly" so I lacked any sort of enthusiasm from the off. The result was I frankly did not care what the outcome was. There was an au pair I went out with she spent two hours telling me about the kids she looked after and after that told me there was no chemistry, she is still single and still on dating sites.....8 years later.

The best conversation I have is never on dates, its never with people who are into me romantically, that is quite telling I think. Hence the reason I can throw dating away because if I had to choose I'd rather stand talking to someone who really communicates well, engages in a conversation, shows interest and actually asks me questions than sit on dates with people who do none of those things while I ask them questions and try to actually get to know them. Every single person I have found attractive has had the ability to engage in good conversation and engage and more than that ask questions and I think its because its never set against the backdrop of romantic expectations, they do not find me attractive so its just a conversation nothing more. You expect me to ask these people on dates'? Clearly that wont ever work.

Yes, bits of the date I found more interesting than others, but this is always going to happen, it's a complete package. You have to give some leeway that others are not going to like the same things you like.

The last part is because if you're talking to a guy at a business convention it's much more typical to talk about world affairs, it's almost expected. The fact you don't recognise this says a lot. You don't see the shades of gray of social expectations.

[ZA Dater]

11 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Yes, bits of the date I found more interesting than others, but this is always going to happen, it's a complete package. You have to give some leeway that others are not going to like the same things you like.

The last part is because if you're talking to a guy at a business convention it's much more typical to talk about world affairs, it's almost expected. The fact you don't recognise this says a lot. You don't see the shades of gray of social expectations.

I do see shades of grey I just see no purpose in actually bothering with it a dating context. Wanting to see if someone has an opinion is fairly normal in my view. Much the same as asking about hobbies and interests.

Hence the reason I look for common ground if there is none it's a total non starter.

Stupidly I went on dates where there was no common ground, they were always a complete disaster.

[ZA Dater]

21 minutes ago, SoulCat said:

For the love of gravy, stop, just stop repeating that you don't want to date someone you're not attracted to. We know, we get it!

I don't think anyone is advocating that you should. Maybe people have suggested that attraction can build over time, but you've shot down those suggestions fairly swiftly, as is your prerogative.

As much as you are now crapping on your last and only relationship, when you were in it and posting here, you came across here most happy and positive you ever have in all of your thousands of posts.

Now you are just back to the same, tired old bollocks.

That relationship just made me feel guilty, she deserved better and I always felt bad I never found her more attractive. 

Not her fault if anything I was more amazed she saw anything good in me at all. Yes it removed the loneliness I had, allowed me to share and I loved sharing.

Now all I do is to think how nice it would be to date this person I met but that's not likely to ever happen. 

 

 

[basil67]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Well no because unlike almost every other interaction this particular person actually asked about me and the conversation was two sided so yes it does make a difference and yes the conversation flowed very nicely and has done every time we have spent any time communicating.

How did you get this out of my comment that in a relationship it's OK if we don't have favourite topics in common because there's so much else to talk about?   And my explanation that one can get their specialty topic met in other places and still have plenty to talk about with a partner.      

If you get to the point of a second date, it's a given that the date can hold up their end of a conversation.  I should not have to spell this out for you

Edited May 11 by basil67

[basil67]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Wanting to see if someone has an opinion is fairly normal in my view

They may well have an opinion, but why the heck would they want to discuss world affairs on a date?   

[basil67]

27 minutes ago, basil67 said:

They may well have an opinion, but why the heck would they want to discuss world affairs on a date?   

Thinking further, your problem is that you want the whole package. 

For instance, one of my good friends is tall, slim and attractive. She doesn't follow social norms like starting out with small talk.   She's eye wateringly intelligent and could happily discuss world affairs with you on a first date. 

But she avoids people who are pretentious.  So she'd never socialise with your friends who, for whatever reason, choose to be intimidating in a social environment.  The whole thing would never get off the ground.  

If you want a partner, you need to willing to compromise.  The whole package very rarely exists.

[FredEire]

5 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Thinking further, your problem is that you want the whole package. 

For instance, one of my good friends is tall, slim and attractive. She doesn't follow social norms like starting out with small talk.   She's eye wateringly intelligent and could happily discuss world affairs with you on a first date. 

But she avoids people who are pretentious.  So she'd never socialise with your friends who, for whatever reason, choose to be intimidating in a social environment.  The whole thing would never get off the ground.  

If you want a partner, you need to willing to compromise.  The whole package very rarely exists.

Flow is very important in every aspect of life. There are certain upbringings and personality types that will rigidly expect everything to conform to their expectations.

Real life doesn't work like that, until you learn to go with and adapt to lifes flow it will put you on your ass again and again until you learn, or choose not to.

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, basil67 said:

They may well have an opinion, but why the heck would they want to discuss world affairs on a date?   

Exactly. Why would one want to discuss world affairs when there are so many other, more important, things to learn about a potential romantic partner. 

[ZA Dater]

8 hours ago, basil67 said:

How did you get this out of my comment that in a relationship it's OK if we don't have favourite topics in common because there's so much else to talk about?   And my explanation that one can get their specialty topic met in other places and still have plenty to talk about with a partner.      

If you get to the point of a second date, it's a given that the date can hold up their end of a conversation.  I should not have to spell this out for you

Never get to your first date never mind the second one.

[ZA Dater]

5 hours ago, basil67 said:

Thinking further, your problem is that you want the whole package. 

For instance, one of my good friends is tall, slim and attractive. She doesn't follow social norms like starting out with small talk.   She's eye wateringly intelligent and could happily discuss world affairs with you on a first date. 

But she avoids people who are pretentious.  So she'd never socialise with your friends who, for whatever reason, choose to be intimidating in a social environment.  The whole thing would never get off the ground.  

If you want a partner, you need to willing to compromise.  The whole package very rarely exists.

I am no longer prepared to compromise without there being mutual attraction,been there and done that it never works at all. All that happens is I end up compromising more and more and end up going on date's with people who do not interest me at all.

Actually the whole package exists fairly often, I've met a fair number of people I would date, this latest person is a good example. The option really is date someone I am not interested in or spend a hour every few months chatting to someone I am very interested in. It's an easy choice, albeit a compromised one.