Perspective

[basil67]

9 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Someone can be passionate about knitting or making things and there are questions and ways to talk about that topic but I cannot tell you how irritating it is talking to people on dates who seemingly are interested in nothing. Frankly most things can be turned into a discussion of the person chooses to engage in a discussion but most of the time this never happens on a date and its one of many reasons I am frankly not prepared to on dates from OLD ever again.

Another vote for your own conversational skills being limited.

It appears that you have not read/comprehended my comment that "passion" is a very strong word which is not appropriate for the far majority of people's hobbies.  For most of us, it's an interest or an enjoyable pastime.   Further, you may be able to get the knitter to do an information dump at you, but this will be boring for them if you can't add pertinent experience to the conversation...and honestly, I struggle to think of relevant segue you could make away from knitting.  I guess you could discuss sustainability of different yarn types and take this into a broad discussion on sustainability...but again, I think that only a knitter would be able to come up with this segue...and even that's a stretch.   Please don't do deep dives into someone's hobby if you can't add anything pertinent to the conversation.

I also enjoy urban sketching.  If you also share this hobby, I'll talk about it with you at length.  But if you don't share it, I don't want to do an information dump at you.  BORING!   Instead my answer will immediately direct the conversation into how the sketching came about because of my love of historical architectural styes, cute kitsch houses and also urban planning...and there's a few conversations which many could run with.  

You also didn't acknowledge my question about whether if this person was passionate and could do an information dump at you, whether it would be enough to make up for them not being interested in discussing world affairs. 

Lastly, I purposely avoided talking about those who can't hold a conversation because a) I've already acknolwedged that they exist and b) I didn't want to listen to you repeat yourself on that topic for the 2000th time...but you just had to go go and do it.   Repeating ourselves is very boring to our reader/listener, and this suggests your conversational skills are no better than those you criticise.  Honestly, your tendency to do this is one of the reasons why so many have suggested the dx of ASD over the years.   If you want to appear neuro typical, you really need to stop repeating yourself. 

Also, chalk me up as another one who doesn't know the difference between dating conversation and general conversation [with a virtual stranger].  

Edited May 14 by basil67

[BaileyB]

Just one page short of 60 - 

I wonder what is the longest thread on loveshack and how close we are getting to the record… 🤣

[ZA Dater]

3 hours ago, basil67 said:

Another vote for your own conversational skills being limited.

It appears that you have not read/comprehended my comment that "passion" is a very strong word which is not appropriate for the far majority of people's hobbies.  For most of us, it's an interest or an enjoyable pastime.   Further, you may be able to get the knitter to do an information dump at you, but this will be boring for them if you can't add pertinent experience to the conversation...and honestly, I struggle to think of relevant segue you could make away from knitting.  I guess you could discuss sustainability of different yarn types and take this into a broad discussion on sustainability...but again, I think that only a knitter would be able to come up with this segue...and even that's a stretch.   Please don't do deep dives into someone's hobby if you can't add anything pertinent to the conversation.

I also enjoy urban sketching.  If you also share this hobby, I'll talk about it with you at length.  But if you don't share it, I don't want to do an information dump at you.  BORING!   Instead my answer will immediately direct the conversation into how the sketching came about because of my love of historical architectural styes, cute kitsch houses and also urban planning...and there's a few conversations which many could run with.  

You also didn't acknowledge my question about whether if this person was passionate and could do an information dump at you, whether it would be enough to make up for them not being interested in discussing world affairs. 

Lastly, I purposely avoided talking about those who can't hold a conversation because a) I've already acknolwedged that they exist and b) I didn't want to listen to you repeat yourself on that topic for the 2000th time...but you just had to go go and do it.   Repeating ourselves is very boring to our reader/listener, and this suggests your conversational skills are no better than those you criticise.  Honestly, your tendency to do this is one of the reasons why so many have suggested the dx of ASD over the years.   If you want to appear neuro typical, you really need to stop repeating yourself. 

Also, chalk me up as another one who doesn't know the difference between dating conversation and general conversation [with a virtual stranger].  

My point remains the same, people surely have interests. How difficult can it be for people to talk about interests? Why should I need to try drag this conversation out of them?

Someone who knits, what do they knit,.what prompted the interest, how long have they been doing it, do they work off a pattern, where do they get the patterns, do they sell what they make, is there a particular item they are most proud of. There are ways to create conversation.

As for world affairs, well it guess it would depend on how attractive I found their personality and the person in general.

I'd far prefer someone do an information dump than me have to drag conversation out of them and get two word answers as a result, this is truly painful to experiment.

I simply cannot fathom why someone would go on a date and not be themselves and not want to share info about themselves and ask about the other person.

Anyway I have no intention of going on anymore dates, the deadline I gave myself has passed. 

[basil67]

9 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

My point remains the same, people surely have interests. How difficult can it be for people to talk about interests? Why should I need to try drag this conversation out of them?

Someone who knits, what do they knit,.what prompted the interest, how long have they been doing it, do they work off a pattern, where do they get the patterns, do they sell what they make, is there a particular item they are most proud of. There are ways to create conversation.

As for world affairs, well it guess it would depend on how attractive I found their personality and the person in general.

I'd far prefer someone do an information dump than me have to drag conversation out of them and get two word answers as a result, this is truly painful to experiment.

I simply cannot fathom why someone would go on a date and not be themselves and not want to share info about themselves and ask about the other person.

Anyway I have no intention of going on anymore dates, the deadline I gave myself has passed. 

Yes, most people have interests.  But if the other knows you don't share the interest, the discussion will be formulaic and dull. 

While you may prefer an information dump to monosyllabic, I think that giving or receiving an information dump would be just as unpleasant as a monosyllabic date and would end the date as as soon as possible.  There are two people on the date and what you would prefer is only half of the recipe.   A good conversation (whether it be romantic or friendly) generally involves both parties being able to find topics which are interesting to the other. 

I think it is good that you're going to stop dating - it clearly does not make you happy.  Question is, are you going to stop posting about dating?

[OKtoday]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

 

I simply cannot fathom why someone would go on a date and not be themselves and not want to share info about themselves and ask about the other person.

 

You often say that you don’t see the point and don’t want to be bothered. Sounds like they are doing the same.

[Weezy1973]

9 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Anyway I have no intention of going on anymore dates, the deadline I gave myself has passed. 

Happy birthday!

Now as a gift to yourself as you enter middle age, you can promise yourself that you’ll absorb the advice people with success in a certain area are giving you, rather than just continue to repeat your mantras over and over to guarantee yourself failure. 
 

My theory is that your low self worth gets triggered very easily, including by reading online dating  profiles. So you then take the triggers and flip it into desired characteristics. Woman in her profile indicates she wants a tall guy, suddenly you want a tall woman. Woman in her profile indicated she wants an outgoing guy, suddenly you want an outgoing woman. Woman indicates she wants a guy that’s passionate about something, suddenly you want a woman that’s passionate about something and so on.

 

[FredEire]

8 hours ago, OKtoday said:

You often say that you don’t see the point and don’t want to be bothered. Sounds like they are doing the same.

I think people mostly give monosyllabic answers when they feel overpowered by the conversation and a little bit uncomfortable. I'd hazard a guess that this is what's happening here. I've had my share of bad dates but I don't think the reason was ever that my date was giving one-word answers.

But again OP concludes that it's all about the date being boring and lacking conversation skills and it's impossible that he could be doing something to bring about that reaction.

[ZA Dater]

2 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Happy birthday!

Now as a gift to yourself as you enter middle age, you can promise yourself that you’ll absorb the advice people with success in a certain area are giving you, rather than just continue to repeat your mantras over and over to guarantee yourself failure. 
 

My theory is that your low self worth gets triggered very easily, including by reading online dating  profiles. So you then take the triggers and flip it into desired characteristics. Woman in her profile indicates she wants a tall guy, suddenly you want a tall woman. Woman in her profile indicated she wants an outgoing guy, suddenly you want an outgoing woman. Woman indicates she wants a guy that’s passionate about something, suddenly you want a woman that’s passionate about something and so on.

 

Thank you for the wishes.

What I find attractive has been as a result of people I have met, none from dating sites..what I did was then try find people on dating sights with similar interests and personalized but this proved to be fruitless in the extreme.

I am actually ok giving up on dating completely with respect the sort of success of seek I will never ever find so it's probably time to just park the idea completely. When I meet people and I meet so few of these who I would like to date, I'll just remind myself they don't find me attractive.

I'll engage in whatever conversation there is, enjoy that and simply move on. That way I'll enjoy what I can and give up on anything else. The lesson with this last lady was I cannot overcome a lack of attraction and more than that my judgements was so poor when there was an opportunity of sorts I only saw it retrospectively. I really really like her company but that's irrelevant.

In the grand scheme of things being lonely for life is not nearly as bad as what some people have to go through each day. Would I have wanted a different outcome sure but one can't have what one wants. 

Edited May 15 by ZA Dater

[FredEire]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Thank you for the wishes.

What I find attractive has been as a result of people I have met, none from dating sites..what I did was then try find people on dating sights with similar interests and personalized but this proved to be fruitless in the extreme.

I am actually ok giving up on dating completely with respect the sort of success of seek I will never ever find so it's probably time to just park the idea completely. When I meet people and I meet so few of these who I would like to date, I'll just remind myself they don't find me attractive.

I'll engage in whatever conversation there is, enjoy that and simply move on. That way I'll enjoy what I can and give up on anything else. The lesson with this last lady was I cannot overcome a lack of attraction and more than that my judgements was so poor when there was an opportunity of sorts I only saw it retrospectively. I really really like her company but that's irrelevant.

In the grand scheme of things being lonely for life is not nearly as bad as what some people have to go through each day. Would I have wanted a different outcome sure but one can't have what one wants. 

Well that's what you've settled on so I guess that might be conclusion of the thread. It's your life so you have to make your own decisions, as long as you are at peace with them.

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

In the grand scheme of things being lonely for life is not nearly as bad as what some people have to go through each day. Would I have wanted a different outcome sure but one can't have what one wants. 

And if a peaceful acceptance of your fate of being alone is the end result, then so be it. I will note you’ve been down this path in the past, and every time, you’ve come back about either your frustration because you’ve gone back to the dating apps, or there’s some new woman you have a crush on. But we’ll see. Maybe this time it’s different. 

[FredEire]

4 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

And if a peaceful acceptance of your fate of being alone is the end result, then so be it. I will note you’ve been down this path in the past, and every time, you’ve come back about either your frustration because you’ve gone back to the dating apps, or there’s some new woman you have a crush on. But we’ll see. Maybe this time it’s different. 

Yes s*** or get off the pot so to speak.

People give up on things all the time, and that's fine if you make your peace with it, nobody will have a problem with that. I think they would have a problem though with, as you say, coming back to complain about OLD or a new unrequited love.

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

And if a peaceful acceptance of your fate of being alone is the end result, then so be it. I will note you’ve been down this path in the past, and every time, you’ve come back about either your frustration because you’ve gone back to the dating apps, or there’s some new woman you have a crush on. But we’ll see. Maybe this time it’s different. 

I am adamant I am not going back to dating apps and I regret the day ever signed up to them. I can like whoever I want but the reality is they wont ever find me attractive so as long as I accept then I should be OK. Honestly I do not think I will ever find peace because as you have said before people are not meant to be alone yet millions are indeed alone. 

The reality of my sad dating life was a series of nothing more than crushes and no real connections at all and certainly no reciprocated interest. This latest lady is really amazing but she is seemingly not interested in anything more than the odd text conversation and lunch but again its my fault for believing I had a chance of more. At the end of the day these words are somewhat true in this circumstance "hope is a dangerous thing" (kudos to anyone who knows the song they are from).

[ZA Dater]

2 hours ago, FredEire said:

Well that's what you've settled on so I guess that might be conclusion of the thread. It's your life so you have to make your own decisions, as long as you are at peace with them.

I'll never be fully at peace with it, nobody would be. I do lament many dating decisions with the caveat that those decisions were made with the best of intentions when I made them. I just need to accept having nothing is a lot better than having something for the sake of it rather than because I want it.  Perhaps for those of you who have a somewhat jaded opinion of me, my ex is taking me out for lunch next week as a belated celebration, for context she is in a LTR, clearly I cant be such bad company

As for this latest lady, I suspect whatever half chance I had there has vanished, no real surprise really, that actually hurts more than giving up. She is probably one of only very few people I have ever met where I thought "I really enjoy your company as a person and I'd love to spend a lot of time with you". 

I'll have to live with being disappointed in myself really.

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, FredEire said:

or a new unrequited love.

That sums up 20 odd years of dating. 

[basil67]

7 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

The lesson with this last lady was I cannot overcome a lack of attraction

Sadly, you're very late to the party with learning this lesson. 

None of us can overcome a lack of emotional or physical attraction - it's completely normal.  With the exception of those who are still with their very first loves, everyone here has experienced it in terms of unrequited interest in someone else or being desired by someone we aren't interested in.    And you experience it yourself each time you date a woman you're not attracted to.  They could try as hard as they want to gain your interest, but it's never going to happen because they don't excite you emotionally and/or physically. 

It's just how it is.

I hope you find peace with your choices.

 

[ZA Dater]

6 hours ago, basil67 said:

Sadly, you're very late to the party with learning this lesson. 

None of us can overcome a lack of emotional or physical attraction - it's completely normal.  With the exception of those who are still with their very first loves, everyone here has experienced it in terms of unrequited interest in someone else or being desired by someone we aren't interested in.    And you experience it yourself each time you date a woman you're not attracted to.  They could try as hard as they want to gain your interest, but it's never going to happen because they don't excite you emotionally and/or physically. 

It's just how it is.

I hope you find peace with your choices.

 

All of this is true. For the most part this is the motivation to call time on all of it, sadly there won't be much peace because I have missed out and inherently irrespective what it is we all wonder what might have been. For me all I can do is try hide that particular emotion as best I can. These last few posts were good to put context into everything.

Thank you.

[semble]

13 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

the reality is they wont ever find me attractive so as long as I accept then I should be OK. Honestly I do not think I will ever find peace because as you have said before people are not meant to be alone yet millions are indeed alone.

Attractive women date ugly guys. It's about charisma, personality, and confidence. All of which you seem to lack and have no interest in changing even though it's within your ability to do so.

[FredEire]

21 minutes ago, semble said:

Attractive women date ugly guys. It's about charisma, personality, and confidence. All of which you seem to lack and have no interest in changing even though it's within your ability to do so.

Yep.

The last few posts almost read like he's giving his own eulogy. The reality is OP you've just turned 40, life expectancy in most countries is around 80. All going well you've still got half your life to live.

I don't think it's a bad idea however just to forget about dating completely for a while and focus on improving your life. There's actually a higher chance something will come along organically that way.

[ZA Dater]

4 hours ago, semble said:

Attractive women date ugly guys. It's about charisma, personality, and confidence. All of which you seem to lack and have no interest in changing even though it's within your ability to do so.

All good and well but they are not going to pick an ugly over an attractive one irrespective if one had all the above you talk about.  

[ZA Dater]

3 hours ago, FredEire said:

Yep.

The last few posts almost read like he's giving his own eulogy. The reality is OP you've just turned 40, life expectancy in most countries is around 80. All going well you've still got half your life to live.

I don't think it's a bad idea however just to forget about dating completely for a while and focus on improving your life. There's actually a higher chance something will come along organically that way.

Sitting at home working, going to work, going to the odd social event I arrange. There is no real scope to meet anyone in that life and maybe its better that way. All I want to try do now is build some sort of friendship with the person I do like and that gets me 20% of what I want which is better than 0%. Truthfully I have no real motivation to date, this last chance idea was a complete nonsense story right from the start, maybe it would not have been had to actually acted on what were quite obvious hints in retrospect one evening but no confidence prevented that so.

You actually summed up my entire dating life better than anyone:  unrequited love.

[FredEire]

11 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Sitting at home working, going to work, going to the odd social event I arrange. There is no real scope to meet anyone in that life and maybe its better that way. All I want to try do now is build some sort of friendship with the person I do like and that gets me 20% of what I want which is better than 0%. Truthfully I have no real motivation to date, this last chance idea was a complete nonsense story right from the start, maybe it would not have been had to actually acted on what were quite obvious hints in retrospect one evening but no confidence prevented that so.

You actually summed up my entire dating life better than anyone:  unrequited love.

Are you happy with your general life apart from dating? Is there any scope to change grow and have new experiences?

Not love because I've learned in adult life that love is something a lot deeper and more complicated than that butterfly feeling you get sometimes when you initially meet someone. Unrequited infatuation, which in the grand scheme of things isn't that meaningful until it develops into something more solid.

[semble]

6 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

All good and well but they are not going to pick an ugly over an attractive one irrespective if one had all the above you talk about.  

I see it all the time. Ugly guys, attractive women.

Take a good look around at couples the next time you're out and about.

No need to take my word for it.

But it's moot anyway because even if the lightbulb came on and you realized it's true, that ugly guys get hot chicks you still wouldn't change a freaking thing. And I get it, your actions, or more aptly, your INaction, is completely fear based. You'll keep on doing the same old thing for the rest of your natural life and complaining about your failures, while secretly hoping you'll get some sort of a break and the perfect woman will come waltzing right into your lap.

 

 

Edited May 16 by semble

[ZA Dater]

8 hours ago, FredEire said:

Are you happy with your general life apart from dating? Is there any scope to change grow and have new experiences?

Not love because I've learned in adult life that love is something a lot deeper and more complicated than that butterfly feeling you get sometimes when you initially meet someone. Unrequited infatuation, which in the grand scheme of things isn't that meaningful until it develops into something more solid.

Its great when you get this feeling ever single time you meet someone, I get this with every person I take a liking to and it never really goes away irrespective of how many time I meet them. You are really reading me quite well. Yes indeed the fundamental problem I have is the inability to get it to develop into anything more because well attraction, case in point I get a msg now from latest lady telling me about her week and a long birthday wish, lots of words and nice ones too. There is feel good attached to that. Ultimately I'd like to try take her on one date but I highly doubt she is single.

General life is akin to going into battle each day but I take some losses and bruising ones at that but also some satisfaction from a few wins too. I have my hobbies and I sometimes get to experience lovely things, though fundamental loneliness seeps into all of this.

You wont believe what I am going to say but for me one thing I want to do is be me a bit more try stay out of my shell longer, show the personality I have and yes I even have some charisma. 

[basil67]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

case in point I get a msg now from latest lady telling me about her week and a long birthday wish, lots of words and nice ones too. There is feel good attached to that. Ultimately I'd like to try take her on one date but I highly doubt she is single.

How are you able to have ongoing conversations with someone and not know if they have a partner?    Do you not ask them about their life and family? 

[semble]

8 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Ultimately I'd like to try take her on one date but I highly doubt she is single.

That's your negative self defeating attitude talking right there.

Always assuming the worst.