Perspective

[ZA Dater]

I have learnt a fair amount but yesterday I think I learnt a very important dating related lesson. A good friend of mine has all the charm, all the charisma, all the confidence and success in life which really helps him with dating. In the twenty odd years I have known him he has dated quite a lot and it would be true to say he does not struggle with dating.

Anyway barring here I never open up how much I struggle with dating, sure I think he knows but he is also quite "me me" so conversations mostly revolve around him. Anyway he thinks I need a girlfriend and this is nothing (he has tried to set me up with people who were never interested in me) new but he actually asked me about the sort of people I find attractive and "no person is perfect" and why do I not ask so and so on a date.

Its easy for him to ask people out, he has tons of charisma and self confidence, whereas I have neither. The conversation went on and he could not understand why I struggled "she is perfect for you", again to me this ignores the fact this person has shown zero interest in me. "ask her out, its your ego, you do not want to get rejected" , its not actually its the sense I know she is not interested in me and he could not understand how being serially rejected does not feel very good. Again because he has always had tons of options and been in the fortunate position where people show interest in him.

Ignore the parts about me, the point I am trying to make here is dating is about perspective, one can see it one way, someone else with different life experience can see it another way.  Its also very difficult here to actually walk in someone else's shoes because dare I say a lot of dating is not really relatable. Someone told me to stop watching these so called on line dating gurus because again how much of that advice is based on a  completely different perspective?

I think in a lovely perfect world, we'd all be paired up with people we love but you know what the world is not perfect. Again he found this concept totally foreign. Or am I the one wrong?

How do you actually discuss dating with people around you, do you ever share your struggles and fears? Its like sharing information how much do you share and I have to be honest this entire conversation while good has actually made me feel worse for being where I am in life.

 

[Gaeta]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

In the twenty odd years I have known him he has dated quite a lot and it would be true to say he does not struggle with dating.

Sound like he's good at getting dates and that is all. He's been at it 20 some years and never settled down and had a long term relationship? You know what's more attractive than charms and charisma? Depth, substance, self-awareness, kindness, and as per what I am reading on here you have all that, you just need to believe in yourself. 

 

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

How do you actually discuss dating with people around you, do you ever share your struggles and fears? Its like sharing information how much do you share and I have to be honest this entire conversation while good has actually made me feel worse for being where I am in life.

I rarely spoke about my dating struggles when I was single. One reason was people around me were in long term relationships and had little understanding of what dating has become. When something came up and I needed a sounding board I came on here. Around me I  used my dating stories to entertain family and coworkers. Telling my stories as jokes did help de-dramatize part of the excruciating process. 

[Weezy1973]

I never really talked about my dating struggles because I never considered them struggles. You’re right it’s about perspective. I had a fair amount of “rejection” but it never bothered me. Why would I want to date somebody that wasn’t interested in me? I dated and had relationships with a few women that I was super attracted to, and some of those relationships crashed and burned. Failure? Nope, just some really valuable learning experiences. Rejection is just part of dating. It’s really not a big deal - it’s not going to kill you. His advice is pretty sound about that one.

 

Your fear of rejection keeps you stuck. Just ask her out is pretty good advice, and advice I’ll give my son when he’s old enough to start dating. Worse thing that can happens is she says no, and then you’re just exactly in the same place you’re at now. Nothing ventured; nothing gained. 

Edited March 20 by Weezy1973

[Alpacalia]

I feel a big part of it is everyone's judging each other 24/7 nowadays, so when you share something about your life (e.g. how you feel about dating), you might share something you actually didn't want to share, but someone looking at you did and so judges you. So it's hard to go for deep discussions about some subjects, while it can be very easy to have those discussions with others.

I want you to know that you are not the only person on this planet that has encountered what you refer to as dating struggles. Heck if you ask men and women irl if they ever had to deal with a rejection at some point in their life, most will say yes. Have I not felt gutted after an emotional rejection? Yes of course I have.

While your friend may not struggle with the same issues, it doesn’t mean that he doesn't struggle with other things. So the main point I want you to take away is that we all struggle and through that, we can find connection with others.

Edited March 20 by Alpacalia

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, Gaeta said:

Sound like he's good at getting dates and that is all. He's been at it 20 some years and never settled down and had a long term relationship? You know what's more attractive than charms and charisma? Depth, substance, self-awareness, kindness, and as per what I am reading on here you have all that, you just need to believe in yourself. 

 

I rarely spoke about my dating struggles when I was single. One reason was people around me were in long term relationships and had little understanding of what dating has become. When something came up and I needed a sounding board I came on here. Around me I  used my dating stories to entertain family and coworkers. Telling my stories as jokes did help de-dramatize part of the excruciating process. 

He is married with a family so has done quite well in that regard.

Thanks for the compliment, sadly I have zero self belief. Yeah the problem is people have little understanding if they are in long term relationships, that is definitely true in my opinion.

Like you I use dating stories to try entertain even if ultimately I am the one being laughed at 

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

I never really talked about my dating struggles because I never considered them struggles. You’re right it’s about perspective. I had a fair amount of “rejection” but it never bothered me. Why would I want to date somebody that wasn’t interested in me? I dated and had relationships with a few women that I was super attracted to, and some of those relationships crashed and burned. Failure? Nope, just some really valuable learning experiences. Rejection is just part of dating. It’s really not a big deal - it’s not going to kill you. His advice is pretty sound about that one.

 

Your fear of rejection keeps you stuck. Just ask her out is pretty good advice, and advice I’ll give my son when he’s old enough to start dating. Worse thing that can happens is she says no, and then you’re just exactly in the same place you’re at now. Nothing ventured; nothing gained. 

There is absolutely nothing sadly to suggest any interest. Then his next comment when I mention this "oh just be her friend", how would that be helpful when she seemingly doesn't want that either.

Again I guess it's hard for him to relate to someone who has not had any success when he has had success. Sure rejection is no big deal but it becomes a big deal when it happens continually.

He has never struggled for interest when he was single we went out, ladies love his looks charisma and confidence, no surprise I got no interest at all. Again he can't relate to that. More often than not he got numbers, I got polite handshakes. Not exactly experience which builds confidence.

 

[FredEire]

1 hour ago, Alpacalia said:

I feel a big part of it is everyone's judging each other 24/7 nowadays, so when you share something about your life (e.g. how you feel about dating), you might share something you actually didn't want to share, but someone looking at you did and so judges you. So it's hard to go for deep discussions about some subjects, while it can be very easy to have those discussions with others.

I want you to know that you are not the only person on this planet that has encountered what you refer to as dating struggles. Heck if you ask men and women irl if they ever had to deal with a rejection at some point in their life, most will say yes. Have I not felt gutted after an emotional rejection? Yes of course I have.

While your friend may not struggle with the same issues, it doesn’t mean that he doesn't struggle with other things. So the main point I want you to take away is that we all struggle and through that, we can find connection with others.

Exactly this. If someone lectures you about something unprovoked most of the time it's projection.

He's been dating 20 years but he's still single? I'm guessing this guy is in his late 30 or 40s. Most likely he's eternally unsatisfied with any woman he meets and can't create meaningful connections, so he picks on your struggles to get to where he's at. Being an eternally single bachelor is celebrated in men but it's not actually a good thing.

[Weezy1973]

33 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Sure rejection is no big deal but it becomes a big deal when it happens continually.

Nope, still not a big deal. It’s only a big deal if you tell yourself the story that it’s a big deal, which is a story you’re very fond of. 
 

And again you are almost never actually rejected. The last time you asked out a woman on a date, if I recall correctly, she accepted and you had a relationship for around a year. You don’t put yourself out there. You don’t ask out women you’re interested in. So this idea of “continual” rejection is just a figment of your imagination. Not including online dating, I don’t even know how many women you’ve asked out on a date. Is it even 10? In your adult life? 

[FredEire]

6 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Nope, still not a big deal. It’s only a big deal if you tell yourself the story that it’s a big deal, which is a story you’re very fond of. 
 

And again you are almost never actually rejected. The last time you asked out a woman on a date, if I recall correctly, she accepted and you had a relationship for around a year. You don’t put yourself out there. You don’t ask out women you’re interested in. So this idea of “continual” rejection is just a figment of your imagination. Not including online dating, I don’t even know how many women you’ve asked out on a date. Is it even 10? In your adult life? 

Agree. If you never try, you'll never win. Rejection is just a part of life, the more you get rejected, the less you give a damn. What really happens if a woman turns you down? You go home, watch a movie and carry on with your life. On the other hand you could spend all your time agonising over how awful it would be if a woman you like told you she's not interested.

[ZA Dater]

19 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Agree. If you never try, you'll never win. Rejection is just a part of life, the more you get rejected, the less you give a damn. What really happens if a woman turns you down? You go home, watch a movie and carry on with your life. On the other hand you could spend all your time agonising over how awful it would be if a woman you like told you she's not interested.

It becomes a very big problem when you have very few options. It's hard to look around and see everyone else successful at this to that extent they can at least get dates with people they want to date.

Again it's perspective this friend is married for about the last few years. His view and my view are different.

 

[FredEire]

Just now, ZA Dater said:

It becomes a very big problem when you have very few options. It's hard to look around and see everyone else successful at this to that extent they can at least get dates with people they want to date.

Again it's perspective this friend is married for about the last few years. His view and my view are different.

 

So try, fail, throw some doo-doo at the wall and at least some of it will stick. You seem to think everyone else is some kind of faultless human being. Guess what, they're not, and they've all been rejected many times. The key thing is they try.

[ZA Dater]

30 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Nope, still not a big deal. It’s only a big deal if you tell yourself the story that it’s a big deal, which is a story you’re very fond of. 
 

And again you are almost never actually rejected. The last time you asked out a woman on a date, if I recall correctly, she accepted and you had a relationship for around a year. You don’t put yourself out there. You don’t ask out women you’re interested in. So this idea of “continual” rejection is just a figment of your imagination. Not including online dating, I don’t even know how many women you’ve asked out on a date. Is it even 10? In your adult life? 

On dating sites? Try never getting a match I actually want by not matching with me it's rejection. He does not understand dating sites, he goes out, has the looks and that confidence and he gets the attention. I have to rely exclusively on dating sites.

Heck this recent example is someone I really like , sent a msg 4 days ago and no reply, I am supposed to ask this person out? Is that really an intelligent idea? Clearly just like everyone else i find interesting she is not interested.

Again he has never had this, everything is easy even if someone was not interested there was someone he found attractive who was.

[ZA Dater]

2 minutes ago, FredEire said:

So try, fail, throw some doo-doo at the wall and at least some of it will stick. You seem to think everyone else is some kind of faultless human being. Guess what, they're not, and they've all been rejected many times. The key thing is they try.

They key thing is I can't be bothered anymore, the level of indifference I have at the moment is very high, level of bitterness higher than that. Again who can really relate to this,, certainly not someone who has had good experiences with a few bad ones.

The way I look at it someone who has tons to offer cannot relate to someone who has nothing to offer. It's a fundamentally one sided conversation. Another example we sit a coffee, some blond walks past "there is one for you". Except there is not because I saw her on a dating site and she wasn't interested.

Sorry everyone I am venting, just not in a very good place at the moment, family member is also not well so there is added anxiety.

[Alpacalia]

4 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

They key thing is I can't be bothered anymore, the level of indifference I have at the moment is very high, level of bitterness higher than that. Again who can really relate to this,, certainly not someone who has had good experiences with a few bad ones.

The way I look at it someone who has tons to offer cannot relate to someone who has nothing to offer. It's a fundamentally one sided conversation. Another example we sit a coffee, some blond walks past "there is one for you". Except there is not because I saw her on a dating site and she wasn't interested.

Your issue isn't your dating struggles, your issues are your woe is me attitude and (kindly....) your piss and vinegar mood whenever you aren't getting your way. I notice you glossed over my response about that you're not the only person in the world that has had bad experiences. I'm not sure, you keep banging your head against the same wall expecting it to give.

Edited March 20 by Alpacalia

[ZA Dater]

6 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

Your issue isn't your dating struggles, your issues are your woe is me attitude and (kindly....) your piss and vinegar mood whenever you aren't getting your way. I notice you glossed over my response about that you're not the only person in the world that has had bad experiences. I'm not sure, you keep banging your head against the same wall expecting it to give.

Sure point taken. The motto here seems to be never discuss this sort of thing with people who cannot relate, being said friend.Frankly I have never got my way in anything, I had to overcome significant challenges in life to get where I am but it would be true to say "make do" is not actually a nice thing all of the time.

Not sure why this particular conversation got to me, probably because he just did not even try to relate and then to quite obviously see so someone was not interested but tell me to ask them out anyway. Should I be irritated?

[ZA Dater]

Also what possible good outcome could come from asking someone out who takes 5 days to respond to a simple text msg.

But it's all good, go home to his pretty wife, great kids and all is well with the world. Feel better for dispensing bs advice, much like in the past he embarassed me trying to get people to go out with me, they were not interested and I just felt like a fool. 

[FredEire]

23 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

They key thing is I can't be bothered anymore, the level of indifference I have at the moment is very high, level of bitterness higher than that. Again who can really relate to this,, certainly not someone who has had good experiences with a few bad ones.

The way I look at it someone who has tons to offer cannot relate to someone who has nothing to offer. It's a fundamentally one sided conversation. Another example we sit a coffee, some blond walks past "there is one for you". Except there is not because I saw her on a dating site and she wasn't interested.

Sorry everyone I am venting, just not in a very good place at the moment, family member is also not well so there is added anxiety.

Ok, so why bother coming on here, for people to feel sorry for you? You are not doing anything constructive, nobody is going to cry for you and self-pity certainly isn't a very attractive quality.

[ZA Dater]

36 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Ok, so why bother coming on here, for people to feel sorry for you? You are not doing anything constructive, nobody is going to cry for you and self-pity certainly isn't a very attractive quality.

My entire point here is that those close to us probably lack any sort of perspective as to how we struggle at dating, there will be the same sort of nonsense advice I mentioned above, sugar coating like '"there are lots of fish in the sea" and other things but in all honesty they have little constructive to add and even less help to add either. Especially if they themselves do not experience similar things.

Maybe the lesson I really learnt is to never bring this up with people close to me though when they tell me what I apparently need I suppose its easy to fall into the trap of thinking that here is someone who wants to actually try add some value.

[Weezy1973]

You take it so hard when someone isn’t interested in you. A woman from online dating isn’t interested; a platform notorious for flaking, ghosting, etc. Why take it so badly? And yes, he can’t relate - but even if he could - it wouldn’t really matter would it? You would be in the same spot. You can’t magically make people attracted to you. 

[Weezy1973]

15 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

…in all honesty they have little constructive to add and even less help to add either. Especially if they themselves do not experience similar things.

On the contrary. People with similar experiences can offer empathy, but it can quickly turn into a pity party. Those with experience succeeded in areas you’re looking to improve are precisely who you should be seeking advice from. Mentors are mentors because of their experience.

[Wiseman2]

Please don't allow him to fix you up with people if you are not up for it. Sadly you resent him and see him as the enemy . A "Chad". 

[ZA Dater]

15 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

On the contrary. People with similar experiences can offer empathy, but it can quickly turn into a pity party. Those with experience succeeded in areas you’re looking to improve are precisely who you should be seeking advice from. Mentors are mentors because of their experience.

Experience vastly different to mine on account of charm, good looks, charisma and plenty to offer. Yet when I mention this he simply tries to pretend his situation and personality is the same as mine, really not sure how that his helpful at all.

I am just properly irritated.

[ZA Dater]

29 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

You take it so hard when someone isn’t interested in you. A woman from online dating isn’t interested; a platform notorious for flaking, ghosting, etc. Why take it so badly? And yes, he can’t relate - but even if he could - it wouldn’t really matter would it? You would be in the same spot. You can’t magically make people attracted to you. 

Because nobody I am interested in is ever interested in me. Actually it would help a heck of a lot if he could relate and instead of dismissing everything I say rather actually sit back and listen before responding with advice which is actually of not real help at all. How is me asking someone out who is clearly not interested helpful? He knows I have no self confidence but that is the advice given?

[FredEire]

36 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

My entire point here is that those close to us probably lack any sort of perspective as to how we struggle at dating, there will be the same sort of nonsense advice I mentioned above, sugar coating like '"there are lots of fish in the sea" and other things but in all honesty they have little constructive to add and even less help to add either. Especially if they themselves do not experience similar things.

Maybe the lesson I really learnt is to never bring this up with people close to me though when they tell me what I apparently need I suppose its easy to fall into the trap of thinking that here is someone who wants to actually try add some value.

You are stuck in a teenage mindset. Nobody knows what it's like to be me. Nobody knows the pain, the struggles. Actually yes they do, they may just not want to experience the world through a lens of their own self pity.

You resent this guy for his success, and you also seem to resent women because none of them want you, except you only know this because you assume it as an absolute and have made it your truth. Until you accept that everyone else has struggles just like you and and you are not unique nothing will change.

To quote Tool, "Get off your fing cross, we need the space to nail the next one up".

[ZA Dater]

41 minutes ago, FredEire said:

You are stuck in a teenage mindset. Nobody knows what it's like to be me. Nobody knows the pain, the struggles. Actually yes they do, they may just not want to experience the world through a lens of their own self pity.

You resent this guy for his success, and you also seem to resent women because none of them want you, except you only know this because you assume it as an absolute and have made it your truth. Until you accept that everyone else has struggles just like you and and you are not unique nothing will change.

To quote Tool, "Get off your fing cross, we need the space to nail the next one up".

Its not assumed. Someone who takes 5 days to respond is not interested. Someone who does not swipe right is not interested. Every single person that has not been from a dating site I have found interesting has NOT been interested, yes interested enough to take whatever kindness I have, take whatever generosity I offer, take whatever advice they can get from me but no there is always someone else they date. I'd say all of that is pretty absolute.

Again my point is not that, its the fact someone who has enjoyed success, dated people he wanted to date cannot ever relate to someone who has never had that opportunity. I do not resent him, I just find the fact he tries to offer fairly baseless generic advice to be irritating, I recall going through these exact thoughts a few years ago right before and after "well so and so is super confident her friends will love you" , nothing of the sort happened and I ended up making small talk to people for the rest of the evening after being looked up and down by her friends.

Once again there is someone else who well she is attractive, confident, has plenty to offer, again its advice with no relevance to me.