Perspective

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

Do you recognize your patterns? 

That answer to that question after 60+ pages is a resounding no. 

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

That wasn’t the question. Do you recognize your patterns? 

 No because the only way for me to date would be off dating apps and I am off those so yes this current interest apart there are no more dates which are possible.

[ZA Dater]

15 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

I think you know where you stand… her lack of consistent communication clearly demonstrates a lack of interest. A woman who is interested in a man will make that known…

But I am told there are no dating rules? How does she make it known if there are no set rules? Ultimately if she isn't interested that is no great surprise because nobody else has ever been. No reason why I can't retain some hope and enjoy living in a world where there is some possibilities with her, it's a nice place to be versus living in a hopeless reality.

[basil67]

40 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

But I am told there are no dating rules? How does she make it known if there are no set rules? 

If she was interested, she'd make it known by both flirting with you and demonstrating enthusiastic, consistent communication.

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

 No because the only way for me to date would be off dating apps and I am off those so yes this current interest apart there are no more dates which are possible.

Yes. So now we understand why therapy doesn’t work for you. Go back a few pages, and you’re giving up on dating and having a relationship. A couple of weeks later and not only are you interested in asking out your crush, but you also go out with a woman that reached out to you from a dating app. 
 

And this pattern has happened countless times in the past. Exactly the same pattern. Over and over. 

[BaileyB]

46 minutes ago, basil67 said:

If she was interested, she'd make it known by both flirting with you and demonstrating enthusiastic, consistent communication.

Indeed, at the very least she would respond to your attempts to communicate consistently. 

[basil67]

12 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Indeed, at the very least she would respond to your attempts to communicate consistently. 

@ZA Dater, it's about the dopamine hit.  Dopamine and other 'stress and reward' hormones run strong in our bodies when we get a new romantic connection. So if you text them and they get a rush of hormones when they receive it, they will answer ASAP because it feels good.  Then you get the dopamine hit and return it quickly...and so it continues.  

If they aren't getting this rush of hormones, then there's no attraction on their end

 

 

Edited May 29 by basil67

[BaileyB]

20 minutes ago, basil67 said:

it's about the dopamine hit.  Dopamine and other 'stress and reward' hormones run strong in our bodies when we get a new romantic connection. So if you text them and they get a rush of hormones when they receive it, they will answer ASAP because it feels good. 

Totally!! 

[ZA Dater]

7 hours ago, basil67 said:

If she was interested, she'd make it known by both flirting with you and demonstrating enthusiastic, consistent communication.

Oh well it's the only option I have so if it does not work it does not work. There will be no great surprise there. 

[ZA Dater]

7 hours ago, basil67 said:

@ZA Dater, it's about the dopamine hit.  Dopamine and other 'stress and reward' hormones run strong in our bodies when we get a new romantic connection. So if you text them and they get a rush of hormones when they receive it, they will answer ASAP because it feels good.  Then you get the dopamine hit and return it quickly...and so it continues.  

If they aren't getting this rush of hormones, then there's no attraction on their end

 

 

Oh well I never generate that with anyone I find attractive so again it's no surprise. All I am trying to do is retain some degree of positivity that maybe I at least have a chance.

 

[ZA Dater]

7 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Yes. So now we understand why therapy doesn’t work for you. Go back a few pages, and you’re giving up on dating and having a relationship. A couple of weeks later and not only are you interested in asking out your crush, but you also go out with a woman that reached out to you from a dating app. 
 

And this pattern has happened countless times in the past. Exactly the same pattern. Over and over. 

This is my own last chance, I only went on that date because she hinted at a hook up, in reality I didn't find her attractive nor did she find me attractive. I did manage to put a good foot forward though and I was happy with the way I communicated.

The lady I want to date, communication is sporadic but when it does happen it's more than a few words. Of course it's one sided attraction and I get to regret not making a move when I should have.

Therapy works for some it categorically does not work for me 

[basil67]

6 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

The lady I want to date, communication is sporadic but when it does happen it's more than a few words. Of course it's one sided attraction and I get to regret not making a move when I should have.

When you've been out of contact for a whole, how often does she re-initiate contact with you? 

6 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Therapy works for some it categorically does not work for me 

"Therapy" is not a conglomerate which is all the same.   Have you ever done CBT therapy?  I think it would help you far more than talk therapy

[SoulCat]

12 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

 How does she make it known if there are no set rules? 

You were supposed to meet up in February, and that didn't happen. Now it's set for July....maybe.
Those are really not indicators that she is interested in anything more than a friendly acquaintance with you. If she was, she'd have made a meet-up happen.
Of course, you could have put in a lot more effort to get together, if you weren't so paralysed by the prospect of being turned down.

Regardless though, I think you are putting the cart before the horse here, getting all infatuated with someone who you haven't even ascertained is single and open to a relationship.
You mentioned you have mutual friends (acquaintances?), can you not ask them if she's single? Put some feelers out there on what her actual situation is?
It may save you a number of weeks of fantasising and nurturing your crush, and the inevitable rollercoaster of abject misery that is to follow.

[ZA Dater]

19 minutes ago, SoulCat said:

You were supposed to meet up in February, and that didn't happen. Now it's set for July....maybe.
Those are really not indicators that she is interested in anything more than a friendly acquaintance with you. If she was, she'd have made a meet-up happen.
Of course, you could have put in a lot more effort to get together, if you weren't so paralysed by the prospect of being turned down.

Regardless though, I think you are putting the cart before the horse here, getting all infatuated with someone who you haven't even ascertained is single and open to a relationship.
You mentioned you have mutual friends (acquaintances?), can you not ask them if she's single? Put some feelers out there on what her actual situation is?
It may save you a number of weeks of fantasising and nurturing your crush, and the inevitable rollercoaster of abject misery that is to follow.

Its fine, those mutual connections rate me as inferior to someone like her so there will be absolutely not help there, in fact they have made a sport in the past of trying to set me up with people they themselves would never go out with. I am not keen to get back into that rollercoaster and am avoiding discussing anything to do with dating with them. Their help and advice is not helpful. 

As I have said many times, text communication does not work with her. Frankly if all I can get is friendly acquaintance then I just have to accept that, I'll give her the in with people I know she she desperately wants to meet, its fine. 

I would rather just live in a world where there is possibility than going down the whole road of being rejected, even though that is a 99.9% possibility here and you know I am not surprised, why because, never ever do the people I find attractive feel the same way.

So yes the odd communication here and there, if that is all I can get then so be it. I am at the point where every single ambition I had, I've thrown in the bin, kids, marriage, other things, I have freed myself of all of it. Just have to accept what is and find the silver lining somewhere and trying to feel as good about myself as I can.

 

[ZA Dater]

4 hours ago, basil67 said:

When you've been out of contact for a whole, how often does she re-initiate contact with you? 

"Therapy" is not a conglomerate which is all the same.   Have you ever done CBT therapy?  I think it would help you far more than talk therapy

Any msg I send she will actually respond to even if its weeks later and quite often at all sorts of odd times, late at night for example. I am taking massive slices of advice and trying to see the possibility and the good here rather than trying to look too hard at my dire record of zero mutual attraction. 

I  have had to do variations of CBT for years because of the work I do and people I work with being particularly demanding and difficult. It does provide some degree of comfort but ultimately what I start with is the same as what I end with. Its very very difficult to describe what its like to wake up each day, look around and see everyone with kids, coupled up, in relationships and realize I have none of that. Its an truly empty feeling. The world around me does not really value me, I have to value myself but its hard to do when I have very little of value at all.  

All of you have tried to get me to value myself and be kinder to myself and I am trying. 

[SoulCat]

4 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Their help and advice is not helpful. 

I didn't suggest asking for their help. I suggested straight up asking these people if they know if she's single or not. 
Straight questions generally give you straight answers.

My guess is that in reality, you don't actually want to know.
Because as soon as you learn she is dating someone, all your hopes would be dashed and you'd be back to square one, albeit via the usual period of woe and anguish.
You'd rather live in blissful ignorance than meet reality head on.

9 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

 

I would rather just live in a world where there is possibility than going down the whole road of being rejected, even though that is a 99.9% possibility here and you know I am not surprised, why because, never ever do the people I find attractive feel the same way.

So yes the odd communication here and there, if that is all I can get then so be it. I am at the point where every single ambition I had, I've thrown in the bin, kids, marriage, other things, I have freed myself of all of it. Just have to accept what is and find the silver lining somewhere and trying to feel as good about myself as I can.

 

This is just more of the self-pitying diatribe that you post over and over again. 
Are you trying to convince us, or just yourself?

[ZA Dater]

45 minutes ago, SoulCat said:

I didn't suggest asking for their help. I suggested straight up asking these people if they know if she's single or not. 
Straight questions generally give you straight answers.

My guess is that in reality, you don't actually want to know.
Because as soon as you learn she is dating someone, all your hopes would be dashed and you'd be back to square one, albeit via the usual period of woe and anguish.
You'd rather live in blissful ignorance than meet reality head on.

This is just more of the self-pitying diatribe that you post over and over again. 
Are you trying to convince us, or just yourself?

Well I'd be surprised if she were still single. People like her do not lack options, sadly I am never an option. Yes you are right, its a much more pleasant place to be, at least there is some false hope there versus there being none in reality. 

Lets be honest the fact I have not had anyone I like want to date me would suggest I am not that convincing (this is an attempt at humor).

The cycle with me is as obvious as it always is, I have something others want but they fundamentally do not want me.

[ZA Dater]

The collective wisdom here win's again. My last msg got a particularly cold response which I guess is fine. I tried to get some further information, instead I was wished a good weekend. 

Inevitable so I am not particularly surprised. I'll distract myself with work for the next few weeks and drop another msg in late June and see from there. I have no doubt an in person meeting will be enjoyable and as I said if a few coffees is the best I can do, it's ok because I really really enjoy her company.

The challenge for me now is to try not feel too bad, does not help that a friend got engaged yesterday, make no mistake I am happy for him but it brings my own situation into sharp focus. Everyone else moving on while I remain nowhere.

 

 

[basil67]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

The collective wisdom here win's again. My last msg got a particularly cold response which I guess is fine. I tried to get some further information, instead I was wished a good weekend. 

Inevitable so I am not particularly surprised. I'll distract myself with work for the next few weeks and drop another msg in late June and see from there. I have no doubt an in person meeting will be enjoyable and as I said if a few coffees is the best I can do, it's ok because I really really enjoy her company.

I asked you how often she re-initiates contact and you said that she always responds to you eventually.    But what I meant is "will she initiate a text conversation when there's no conversation in progress?"   Does she reach out to you and initiate conversations?

Thing is, it's all well and good to be confident, but it's foolish to be confident when all the signs in a situation are pointing otherwise.  We've talked about what mutual interest looks like in texting (frequent messages & and initiation by other person) but it sounds like you had none of that.   Further, if someone regularly takes weeks to respond (as opposed to the occasional forgotten text) they aren't interested and they are hoping the other party gets the hint and stops bothering them.   

I don't like to be so harsh, but at the moment it sounds like you're bothering her and you must stop.  Please, please leave initiation of the next contact in her court.  And no, don't send an apology.  Just stop messaging.

Edited May 31 by basil67

[basil67]

15 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

The cycle with me is as obvious as it always is, I have something others want but they fundamentally do not want me.

Romantic connection and professional skills aren't comparable.    If you resent giving pretty women your services for free, start charging market price

[ZA Dater]

5 minutes ago, basil67 said:

I asked you how often she re-initiates contact and you said that she always responds to you eventually.    But what I meant is "will she initiate a text conversation when there's no conversation in progress?"   Does she reach out to you and initiate conversations?

Thing is, it's all well and good to be confident, but it's foolish to be confident when all the signs in a situation are pointing otherwise.  We've talked about what mutual interest looks like in texting (frequent messages & and initiation by other person) but it sounds like you had none of that.   Further, if someone regularly takes weeks to respond (as opposed to the occasional forgotten text) they aren't interested and they are hoping the other party gets the hint and stops bothering them.   

I don't like to be so harsh, but at the moment it sounds like you're bothering her and you must stop.  Please, please leave initiation of the next contact in her court.  And no, don't send an apology.  Just stop messaging.

If she wants to contact me she can, frankly I can't be bothered. She's very chatty when she thinks I can help with something so it's just another one of these situations I always find myself in. It's ok I can live with it, I'll inevitably give her what she actually wants from me and then I'll disappear.

[ZA Dater]

4 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Romantic connection and professional skills aren't comparable.    If you resent giving pretty women your services for free, start charging market price

In my world it's the only value I have, I've got nothing else to offer so the only way to any any romantic connection could ever start would be with the other person needing something I have. Otherwise there is frankly no reason for anyone to have anything to do with me, this has been proven true time and time again.

Again I've lost nothing here, for the first time probably ever I found someone I really enjoy spending time with, could be myself with,  communicates well, knowledgeable, warm personality and basically someone I would date without feeling like I'd over compromised. Add to which she has an interesting life. 

I'll just carry on with my exercise routine pretend to everyone everything is fine and bury myself in work.

At least I don't have to go back to dating apps which inevitably make me feel even worse.

[basil67]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

In my world it's the only value I have, I've got nothing else to offer so the only way to any any romantic connection could ever start would be with the other person needing something I have. Otherwise there is frankly no reason for anyone to have anything to do with me, this has been proven true time and time again.

You're making stuff up just to support your moaning.  We all know that you've just conveniently forgotten the woman who you were in a relationship with for so many months.  The woman who showed infinite patience because she really liked you and could see herself in a relationship with you.   Yes, I know, despite your best efforts, you weren't attracted to her.  But don't go saying you've got nothing to offer when we know that you've had someone who's shown interest in more than your professional skills

 

Edited May 31 by basil67

[NuevoYorko]

If your association with this woman is in any way connected with your work, you're being disingenous to frame the situation like she is trying to callously "use" you to get something she "wants."  

Business relationships are generally transactional.  

I'd think you'd be comfortable with this since you appear to view every human interaction as transactional.  

I also question your conviction that beautiful intelligent socially adept women are interested in you because you can provide impressive social contacts for them.

That doesn't seem to fit.  You describe yourself as socially awkward, you hate parties, do not like to socialize, actually sneer at "fun."  How wonderful can these ladies be if they are targeting you to "use" as a conduit to a higher social status?

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, NuevoYorko said:

If your association with this woman is in any way connected with your work, you're being disingenous to frame the situation like she is trying to callously "use" you to get something she "wants."  

Business relationships are generally transactional.  

I'd think you'd be comfortable with this since you appear to view every human interaction as transactional.  

I also question your conviction that beautiful intelligent socially adept women are interested in you because you can provide impressive social contacts for them.

That doesn't seem to fit.  You describe yourself as socially awkward, you hate parties, do not like to socialize, actually sneer at "fun."  How wonderful can these ladies be if they are targeting you to "use" as a conduit to a higher social status?

I have actually do have a social circle of people based on common interest and suffice to say these people could be considered successful. Certain types of businesses would love access to this pool of people.

Me, I was hoping to move away from transaction here on the basis that I actually might be am ok person and because socially we do get along quite well but as is normal I suspect I lack attraction.

Fun for me is accomplishing things and mostly helping others accomplish things.