basil67 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 (edited) 15 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: Well yes but we've already established that does not work for me unless I have something to offer. Sure. But my point is that you won't get friendship during the time you're doing jobs for people. At best, you'll get temporary company while you do the job and then they move on when the job is done. And then you complain about it. Edited June 3 by basil67 Link to post Share on other sites
Gebidozo Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 1 hour ago, ZA Dater said: Am going to stick to my idea of trying to form some sort of mostly transaction friendship. There is no such thing. Link to post Share on other sites
Gebidozo Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 1 hour ago, ZA Dater said: It is and I see these sorts of friendships multiple times a day. There is mutual benefit based on what each has to offer. A few coffees, lunches and whatever with her will be fine. Certainly a lot better than nothing. The way you talk about friendship and romance like they were some sort of business deals, and even openly use the cynical expression “mutual benefit” is such a turn off, it’s almost creepy. No wonder women don’t like you. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZA Dater Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 1 hour ago, basil67 said: Sure. But my point is that you won't get friendship during the time you're doing jobs for people. At best, you'll get temporary company while you do the job and then they move on when the job is done. And then you complain about it. That is fine, if that is the best I can get in this particular situation I accept that. For years the reality is people are mostly only interested in me when I have something to offer them. I'll her company while also feeling like I am adding some value. Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 5 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: That is fine, if that is the best I can get in this particular situation I accept that. For years the reality is people are mostly only interested in me when I have something to offer them. I'll her company while also feeling like I am adding some value. OK, now don't complain!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 1 hour ago, basil67 said: Go back and re-read what you wrote. She knew you were exclusive (heck, did she really think you were also seeing other women haha ). Instead she was wanting a greater level of commitment from you. It's as plain as day in your previous thread And it's clear that you weren't committed because you've got one whole long thread about being unsure and having one foot out the door. And you didn't even talk about the future You still haven't answered as to why you wrote the earlier diatribe about your ex-girlfriend asking about how committed you are. I'm sure she was picking up on your reticence to get more serious.... Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZA Dater Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 29 minutes ago, basil67 said: You still haven't answered as to why you wrote the earlier diatribe about your ex-girlfriend asking about how committed you are. I'm sure she was picking up on your reticence to get more serious.... It was in the context of what I would call frivolous pointless things that people do because society has mandated it. If I am dating someone for 7 months I think that is pretty official, why do I formally have to make it official? She probably was picking that up. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZA Dater Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 37 minutes ago, basil67 said: OK, now don't complain!!!! Its not really what I would like but its better than nothing and the big difference between doing that and forcing myself to date someone I do not find attractive, is the relative lack of complication and I would not be leading someone on. The downside is wanting what I cannot get but to be honest my entire dating life has been like that so its nothing really new. Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 (edited) 12 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: It was in the context of what I would call frivolous pointless things that people do because society has mandated it. If I am dating someone for 7 months I think that is pretty official, why do I formally have to make it official? She probably was picking that up. This has nothing to do with society mandating things. Given that you had one foot out the door and didn't talk about the future, how can you think that her question about the future was unreasonable? After all, it was your inability to answer to the affirmative which was the signal that she needed to end it. Edit to add: some people use the word "exclusive" in the place of "committed". She would have been asking about commitment on your part Edited June 3 by basil67 Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZA Dater Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 14 minutes ago, basil67 said: This has nothing to do with society mandating things. Given that you had one foot out the door and didn't talk about the future, how can you think that her question about the future was unreasonable? After all, it was your inability to answer to the affirmative which was the signal that she needed to end it. Edit to add: some people use the word "exclusive" in the place of "committed". She would have been asking about commitment on your part Again to me being committed and exclusive are very different concepts. You right I did never talk about the future which I guess was a sign as was my lack of comment when "I can see this long term", all that really did was make me wonder why I was not feeling what she was feeling and for someone is already an overthinker this was not good on top of all the other stress I have. There will always be an element of "what if". Ultimately there is an intangible feeling, its either there or it is not, I've had this toward all the people I have been interested in. Every so often to be able to spend time with someone who engages and gives me that feeling is really nice. Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 24 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: Again to me being committed and exclusive are very different concepts. They are very different concepts to me too. But I also know that they are used interchangeably, so instead of being 'right', I understand context is important. If you've been with a woman for many months and are staying on weekends, then she'll know you're only seeing her...so if she asks about exclusivity that far in, she's referring to commitment. That said, even if a person doesn't understand the context, they will reply with "OMG, of course I'm only seeing you. And I'm hoping that you'll be a very important part of my future" So, again I ask you, what's wrong with this conversation which would cause you a diatribe calling her words "rubbish" and having a rant at "society"? If you'd cared about her, you should have been thrilled at her showing she wants a future with you. *epiphany* So perhaps this ^ is the problem: You're mad because you weren't enamoured with her, and her words pushed you into a corner where you refused to answer. And then, quite understandably, you got dumped because of it. And she wouldn't give you a second chance when you asked for it. It's always you blaming others for your own failings and this is just more of the same. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZA Dater Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 26 minutes ago, basil67 said: They are very different concepts to me too. But I also know that they are used interchangeably, so instead of being 'right', I understand context is important. If you've been with a woman for many months and are staying on weekends, then she'll know you're only seeing her...so if she asks about exclusivity that far in, she's referring to commitment. That said, even if a person doesn't understand the context, they will reply with "OMG, of course I'm only seeing you. And I'm hoping that you'll be a very important part of my future" So, again I ask you, what's wrong with this conversation which would cause you a diatribe calling her words "rubbish" and having a rant at "society"? If you'd cared about her, you should have been thrilled at her showing she wants a future with you. *epiphany* So perhaps this ^ is the problem: You're mad because you weren't enamoured with her, and her words pushed you into a corner where you refused to answer. And then, quite understandably, you got dumped because of it. And she wouldn't give you a second chance when you asked for it. It's always you blaming others for your own failings and this is just more of the same. 100% correct. If anything asking for a second chance was a particularly stupid thing to do. Oh no, we have already established I am 100% at fault 100% of the time be it this or no attraction or whatever, I'll be at fault for all of it. Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 7 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: 100% correct. If anything asking for a second chance was a particularly stupid thing to do. Ok, so going on rants and silly diatribes is not becoming. Take some time to work out what's really bothering you before spouting off nonsense. You'll benefit in all areas of your life. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZA Dater Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 3 minutes ago, basil67 said: Ok, so going on rants and silly diatribes is not becoming. Take some time to work out what's really bothering you before spouting off nonsense. You'll benefit in all areas of your life. What is bothering me cannot be fixed so it is what it is. I still thinking "official" is an obtuse word to use in that context. Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 20 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: I still thinking "official" is an obtuse word to use in that context. Yes, well you go off and be a lonely pedant. Meanwhile, the rest of us work with context and get on well with others. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 (edited) 5 hours ago, ZA Dater said: I feel that being asked about exclusive after dating for months is really irrelevant because actions indicated exclusivity. According to your logic, actions would indicate that you were attracted to the woman. Actions would indicate that you were developing deep feelings for her. Neither were true. If I’m dating a man for this long and I’m not feeling like he’s attracted to me, that he is developing strong feelings for me, that he’s not starting to think about and talk about a future with me… I’m sure as hell going to have the conversation with him. I don’t care if he is “committed” to me - if he attends every date promptly, if he calls me regularly, if he listens to my every word… if he doesn’t feel anything for me after all that time - we have a HUGE problem. You absolutely were stringing her alone - we said it time and again when you posted. You were half in and half out - she knew it, which is why she called you on it. Ultimately, it’s why she ended it. She should have ended it much sooner, in my humble opinion. What you did to her was cruel. 6 hours ago, ZA Dater said: I spent months hoping some feeling of romantic attraction would appear, they never did. Edited June 3 by BaileyB 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZA Dater Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 6 minutes ago, BaileyB said: According to your logic, actions would indicate that you were attracted to the woman. Actions would indicate that you were developing deep feelings for her. Neither were true. If I’m dating a man for this long and I’m not feeling like he’s attracted to me, that he is developing strong feelings for me, that he’s not starting to think about and talk about a future with me… I’m sure as hell going to have the conversation with him. I don’t care if he is “committed” to me - if he attends every date promptly, if he calls me regularly, if he listens to my every word… if he doesn’t feel anything for me after all that time - we have a HUGE problem. You absolutely were stringing her alone - we said it time and again when you posted. You were half in and half out - she knew it, which is why she called you on it. Ultimately, it’s why she ended it. She should have ended it much sooner, in my humble opinion. What you did to her was cruel. Yet there are posts here which go along the line of "my attraction grew over time" and I am cruel because my attraction did not grow over time? Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 (edited) 26 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: I am cruel because my attraction did not grow over time? You are cruel because you selfishly strung her along month after month waiting for some kind of attraction to grow over time. This is not a problem for a few dates. It’s not a problem for a month or two. But, if it is 7 months down the road and you are still not feeling any attraction to the woman… If you are having sex and you are still not feeling any attraction to the woman… If you are coming up on your one year anniversary and you don’t have strong feelings for the woman including a deep attraction for her - you are misleading her and that is not a kind or a fair thing to do. If you are not able to put yourself in her position and understand that, that says a lot. Edited June 3 by BaileyB 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 I mean - she called you out after 7 months (which by my recollection is an understatement) because you did not have romantic feelings for her/would not progress the relationship and you blame society?? Society is being obtuse, with their arcane requirements that one must define the relationship so that people know they are investing in a relationship with another person who feels the same way and has the same idea of the future that they do? To say that this is not common sense is an understatement. It’s not society that is the problem, you being deliberately obtuse. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 37 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: Yet there are posts here which go along the line of "my attraction grew over time" and I am cruel because my attraction did not grow over time? My attraction to my husband grew over time. It took about 6 hours 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZA Dater Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 1 minute ago, BaileyB said: I mean - she called you out after 7 months (which by my recollection is an understatement) because you did not have romantic feelings for her/would not progress the relationship and you blame society?? Society is being obtuse, with their arcane requirements that one must define the relationship so that people know they are investing in a relationship with another person who feels the same way and has the same idea of the future that they do? To say that this is not common sense is an understatement. It’s not society that is the problem, you being deliberately obtuse. Once again I use an example of apparent dictated norms and it becomes about the example rather than the point I was trying to make. I do believe it is ridiculous to have to pronounce oneself as official, the entire concept seems ridiculous to me and nobody I know has gone around announcing themselves as official with so and so. Same idea, what if the person has a different idea, then what? Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 Just now, ZA Dater said: Once again I use an example of apparent dictated norms and it becomes about the example rather than the point I was trying to make. I do believe it is ridiculous to have to pronounce oneself as official, the entire concept seems ridiculous to me and nobody I know has gone around announcing themselves as official with so and so. Same idea, what if the person has a different idea, then what? How is this rant about 'dictated norms' even relevant to this thread? I mean, other than you, who gives a s***? Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 (edited) 6 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: I do believe it is ridiculous to have to pronounce oneself as official, the entire concept seems ridiculous to me Well then, you say things like - I’m not dating anyone else. I’ve never cheated on my partner in another relationship. I love you. I look forward to the day we live together. What do you see in your future? Where do you want to be in five years? Do you want to have kids someday? I can’t imagine being with anyone else? My heart bursts when I see you. You are everything to me, I don’t ever want to loose you. All those words accomplish the same purpose as saying that you are “official.” My thought is that your lack of ability to do any of the above made her question your feelings/intentions and that is why she asked to have the discussion… it’s why she asked if you were “official.” And then you, got in your head and became all offended by societies need to use the word “official” - and she said, I’m done. She found someone who didn’t have to grow his feelings of attraction, someone who loved her and was able to demonstrate that love to her both verbally and through his actions - and good on her!! Edited June 3 by BaileyB 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZA Dater Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 2 minutes ago, BaileyB said: Well then, you say things like - I’m not dating anyone else. I’ve never cheated on my partner in another relationship. I love you. I look forward to the day we live together. What do you see in your future? Where do you want to be in five years? Do you want to have kids someday? I can’t imagine being with anyone else? My heart bursts when I see you. You are everything to me, I don’t ever want to loose you. All those words accomplish the same purpose as saying that you are “official.” My thought is that your lack of ability to do any of the above made her question your feelings/intentions and that is why she asked to have the discussion… it’s why she asked if you were “official.” And then you, got in your head and became all offended by societies need to use the word “official” - and she said, I’m done. She found someone who didn’t have to grow his feelings of attraction, someone who loved her and was able to demonstrate that love to her both verbally and through his actions - and good on her!! Agreed good on her. I am happy she has found that guy and is happy. I unfortunately cannot say what I do not feel that is the reality of it, I loved spending time with her, I loved her warm personality but there was never going to be any long term. There was a lack of attraction overall sadly and I tried to feel that but never did. I never actually questioned the whole official thing, I simply did not respond to the question and side stepped it. Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 (edited) 30 minutes ago, basil67 said: How is this rant about 'dictated norms' even relevant to this thread? I mean, other than you, who gives a s***? The simple truth is that the relationship didn’t mean much to him if he was willing to lose it over something so trivial. No doubt, the reply will include some ridiculous excuse along the line of - he refused to compromise his principles and conform to societal norms… But the truth is - if the relationship meant anything to him he would have found a way to answer the question in a way that satisfied his partner. Edited June 3 by BaileyB Link to post Share on other sites
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