How many of us spent christmas without the love of our life?

[Marielle]

Gee SL, I think you forgot about me...I kind of started the "reaction" on this tread!

Can I be your friend too?

[scarletletter]

So sorry....I forgot to appreciate you!!! You certainly are my friend also...lol. We need all we can get in this place!!!

[newbby]

Gee SL, I think you forgot about me...I kind of started the "reaction" on this tread!

Can I be your friend too?

 

me too!

i mean i tried to understand i really did.

[scarletletter]

Too Funny...Didn't mean to leave anyone out. Bottom line is when I wrote this thread, I was interested in talking to someone about it who has been through the same thing. Many of you were very understanding and gave me some valuable insight..others were just plain rude. Oh well, I guessed I asked for it...good thing I am "thick skinned".

[newbby]

sl, i forgive you, you cut me bad though!

i agree with you, you and sami have a very similar approach.

[scarletletter]

Yes, for some reason I related to her or she related to me..whatever. I know everyone feels that their situation is different, but mine really is. It is what we decided on when we started this up..(me and MM). It was almost like a contract..crazy, huh? Anyway, it is what we both wanted, to fill and empty spot. I don't think either of us thought we would fall in love so fast, but we did and that makes it very hard to adhere to the "rules" that we set for ourselves. It is an adult relationship, but sometimes I don't feel like an adult, I feel like the silly, jealous teenager that wants him for my own when I know that it cannot happen right now.

[Lishy]

You need to fullfill the 'empty spot' youself and not rely on a man (espicially a married man) to fill it for you. All you will achieve is more hurt and pain and a lower self esteem!

 

You should stop worrying about a guy who has proven to be a cheat and sort out your marital problems. Then you will be able to move on and meet the real 'love of your life'

 

If you think I am bashing you then all I can say is sorry. I don't mean to judge. I have been where you are in your marriage and it is all consuming and you do look for release. Find it within yourself my dear!

[scarletletter]

I agree I have a lot of work to do to satisfy myself and be happy, however, in reality I am a cheater also, not just mm. It's all so complicated when I really sit down and think about it. I can't go on this way forever, that is for sure. Easier said than done to dump MM. Don't think I am in that frame of mind right now

[elmejor]

Originally Posted by jen_jen_heartbroken

Truth hurts, don't it.

 

yes, thats an excellent example of what i was talking about.

 

You know, jen_jen, wives ARE NOT PERFECT. Here's some TRUTH for you: husbands can, and do, leave their wives for OW. You can attack OW all you want, but the fact remains that a husband who is in love with his wife and devoted to her, probably will not stray. On the other hand, if his wife is for example, a screaming, bitchy shrew, and he doesn't love her anymore, guess what? He may just find a woman he does love, he may leave his wife for her, and the two of them may live happily ever after. Look around the world. This happens every day. Such is love. Get over it.

[scarletletter]

Touche'....very well said!

[jen_jen_heartbroken]

Originally Posted by jen_jen_heartbroken

Truth hurts, don't it.

 

 

 

You know, jen_jen, wives ARE NOT PERFECT. Here's some TRUTH for you: husbands can, and do, leave their wives for OW. You can attack OW all you want, but the fact remains that a husband who is in love with his wife and devoted to her, probably will not stray. On the other hand, if his wife is for example, a screaming, bitchy shrew, and he doesn't love her anymore, guess what? He may just find a woman he does love, he may leave his wife for her, and the two of them may live happily ever after. Look around the world. This happens every day. Such is love. Get over it.

 

Not being in love with your spouse any more is not a justification for cheating. In such situations, the RIGHT thing to do would be to END ONE RELATIONSHIP BEFORE YOU START ANOTHER. Why is this simple, moral concept lost on so many people?

[scarletletter]

That would be the ideal situation but since all of us are not perfect or in the perfect situation, these things happen. Everyone has a story to tell and not everyone is in a position where they can leave their husband or wife for whatever the reason. I'm sure if we were to take a pole on this in this forum there would not be two situations that were even similar. We are all individuals and have individualized situations. Things happen, even when we don't intend for them to...we let them happen because it is a choice that we make. Is it a wise choice? Is it something that I would want my daughter to do? Is it something I would advise other's to do? Hell no, its just something that happens. Do I have morals? Yes, I do...its just that in my situation, IT JUST HAPPENED! No matter how much I would have tried to fight it, it would have still happened....why?....because I let it. So I'm not one that someone would call a saint, I still am a good person and have a huge heart. I just made a choice, good or bad, that's for me to decide.

[jen_jen_heartbroken]

it a wise choice? Is it something that I would want my daughter to do? Is it something I would advise other's to do? Hell no, its just something that happens. Do I have morals? Yes, I do...its just that in my situation, IT JUST HAPPENED!

 

That's always my favorite excuse. "Honey, I don't know how I ended up naked in bed with her/him....It just happened". Accidents just happen. Cheating on your spouse, or sleeping with a married man is not an accident.

[EMJ]

Now C'mon Jen,

It's very hard to leave a situation and go out on your own, no matter how unhappy the marriage. The next statements are more true for men than women:

-Most people don't want to be alone.

-Most people will put up with years of crappy treatment, especially if there are children or other family pressures to stay together.

-Most people are not going to change their lives, identities, and give up the social approval that goes with it, unless they are absolutely sure the new situation will be better for them.

 

Why do you think that over 90% of divorces are inititated by women? Because men are not going to leave a marriage just for sex alone. You practically have to fill the Hefty bags full of his stuff and leave it on the porch, change the locks, and send him divorce papers at work for him to get the message.

So why would you expect HIM to leave. It's not a so much a "simple moral concept" to end one relationship before beginning another. In his mind he's escaping the drudgery of the everyday routine, not starting another "relationship". Leaving is a really complicated, messy, and painful decision that affects entire families.

[scarletletter]

just out of curiosity jen jen....why are you heartbroken and what is your marital status? If you dont' mind me asking. You seem to be passing judgement based on experience.

[jen_jen_heartbroken]

just out of curiosity jen jen....why are you heartbroken and what is your marital status? If you dont' mind me asking. You seem to be passing judgement based on experience.

 

When I joined LS I was going through a difficult dating relationship. I'm seeing someone else now...thankfully.

 

I am divorced five years. Was married for nine years to a man who cheated on me while I was working three jobs to support him through college. Admittedly, we were two ships in the night, but I was working hard for him and our future. He wanted time that I just didn't have to give him...there are only so many hours in the day, and he already had every minute that I wasn't working. When I found out about the affair, he begged me to take him back, but I did not. All trust was gone at that point. He married her two months after our divorce, and now none of his friends will talk to him, because they can't stand his new shrew of a wife. What goes around, comes around.

[scarletletter]

Then you are entitled to be a bitter cheaten-on wife. I have never been on that side of the fence and I know it would suck big time. But we (the people in here) are not your ex husbands new wife. We are not the one's that cheated on you. It is really not fair to think that we are all bad...every single case is different. My story is so damn long, I don't even want to tell it on here. But just let me say that my MM's wife is NOT the good wife that you were. I know that for a fact. Doesn't make it right, but its just a statement

[elmejor]

Not being in love with your spouse any more is not a justification for cheating. In such situations, the RIGHT thing to do would be to END ONE RELATIONSHIP BEFORE YOU START ANOTHER. Why is this simple, moral concept lost on so many people?

Because it isn't simple, you're trying to simplify a complicated situation. Aside from the fact that your moral concept is not necessarily everyone else's in the world, maybe a spouse does not fully realize their lack of love for their spouse UNTIL they have fallen in love with another. I don't know, but I do know that a lot of the OW-bashing is misplaced because it is the straying spouse who has broken promises to his/her spouse. The OW/OM? They are guilty of loving someone, and that's not a bad thing, IMO.

[to lonely for words]

Just wondering if I was the only one feeling very lonely and empty because I couldn't spend christmas with the man that I love. Of course, he is with his family and I knew it would be this way but this is my first christmas being involved with him and it really has sucked. I guess it will always be this way but I knew that going in...although it really doesn't help alot. We couldn't even exchange gifts. This man is the best at being discreet and we have a mutual understanding that there will always be disappointment when we cannot be together because of holidays and children involved. It is such a lonely feeling and for the first time in this relationship I can honestly say that I am hurting. I have been so strong for so long...guess it was just a matter of time. I was just wondering if anyone else felt the same.

I know all too well how lonely it is. I have spent 9 of them alone, even with our children here, the others come first. would you like some advice? I would love to talk to someone, it will be the first but I feel I will soon crack!!

[newbby]

too lonely for words,

why dont you start your own thread? it cant be healthy holding all this stuff in.

[LexiB]

Dear scarletletter...

 

I too have been completely in love with a MM. Here is my story and perhaps it may or may not help you deal with what you are feeling but perhaps it might give you some comfort knowing that there is someone else out there who understands what you may be going through not just around the holidays but all the time.

 

I met him right before he got married. I didn't know that he was going to marry this person who I was starting to become friends with. He got married to her and the 3 of us became friends. I actually became very close friends with her. After the first year of marriage, he made jokes about "getting together" to test the waters. I thought he was a relatively nice guy but all along thought he's just my friends husband. We all hung out together and actually he was very happy to see that his wife actually found a friend who shared so many common interests. It was so uncanny how we were so much alike on the surface as the public would see but internally, we were completely different in our perspectives of the human heart as her husband had discovered over the years.

 

One evening, her husband had asked to see if I wanted to hang out while the wife was out of town (which was completely natural since we were just all friends). There was no dening that we had a very intense unspoken attraction as well as a strong admiration for each other on a professional level. However, I only considered him as a friend and had no intentions of anything more as he was "married" and off limits.

 

Sometimes, things happen unintentionally and in this instance, it was not planned at least on my part. We ended up together that evening to something so incredibly amazing we were both speechless. The next day or two was quite strange but in my moment of ethics, I told him that I was not ok with what had happened that I needed to either tell his wife since she was my friend or he needed to. It was a scary week for both of us since we had no idea what or where to start.

 

Somehow, we got thru it and decided to keep it to ourselves as a one time accident. Over time, this turned into a full blown love affair while I was friends with his wife for another 2 years. In continuting this relationship, I made up all the rules about the nature of the situation, the hope of no future, to be completely honest with each other in that if I felt it was hurting me, we would end it and he would as well etc, etc..

 

My friendship with his wife ended as she had some fundemental issues that always put me down and manipulated me to the point where she became possessive with me and had me alienate all my friends. It was kind of odd but she was very calculating and controlling (which is the internal part that is so different between us).We are no longer friends which was completely a separate issue altogether.

 

Regardless, her husband continued to see me 2-3 times a week, we went out to nice romantic dinners and dates, makes dinner and surprises me when I get home from work, he surprised me with trips to the mountains, resorts, getaways...it was all surreal. He takes care of me and saw me whenever he could. He was even there for me when my brother passsed away. We've been together for about 5 of his 6 year marriage.

 

I have left him twice before as I kept reaching that point where I felt this was not working for me although I was so completely in love with this man as he is with me. He came back both times as he just could not let me go and I've gone back both times as I could not let him go. We've never disscussed a future but just held on to the present. We have no idea what our future holds so it was just never discussed and I have no desire to go down that road.

 

I can't tell you in words how happy I am when I am with him and I can feel how happy he is when he is with me. Our feelings for each other are so intense it hurts when he's not near. He doesn't have kids although kids were planned over 2 years ago and that his wife would stop working. I'm not sure why they still doesn't have kids altho I suspect that he's trying to make his marriage less complicated if it doesn't work out or even that he's trying to keep me and him alive. I'm not sure really but he knows that I will end our relationship if he does have children. That was another one of my rules. I could not hurt an innocent child.

 

Not too long ago, we had dinner and was walking around an outside shopping mall. A small child out of nowhere ran up to him and said "daddy, daddy" and his mother was chasing him while the kid ran away laughing. It was just an odd incident. From this, it sparked a serious conversation when we got to the car. I asked him how he would feel if I ended up getting pregnant and he said " actually, I was just thinking of that the other night and (he looked at me really serious which kind of scared me) I would love to have a baby with you". I was so surprised that he would want to have that baby if I were pregnant and it was said without any fear on his part and perhaps it was something he was looking forward to.

 

Like you scarletletter, I miss him during the times he "has to be" with his wife and do his husbandly duties for his kids in your case. However, he is there for me when I need him, I can always depend on him and he will bend over backwards in any capacity to take care of me. I never ask him for anything as I am very independent and prideful. Nonetheless, even though I never ask, he always takes care of everything for me.

 

He makes me feel safe, secure and those are the moments that have carried me through the hard times. I try not to think about his married life and what he must be doing as I have a very full life on my own. I continue to live my life and keep everything in perspective of this relationships reality. Just taking it for what it is and not having expectations of what it can be. Its taken a long time for me to mentally do this but I have to admit, it does it hit me from time to time.

 

I've seen him recently on our last trip to this beautiful mansion he rented out on a lake in the mountains where he was in complete anguish and pain over the thought of not being able to be with me all the time. Perhaps he feels this sadness from me and reaches a point where he feels so helpless. He has said that I deserve to be someone who can love me and be with me to take care of me all the time, not only when they are able to. He was so torn and I can see the pain. I know he tries to brush this feeling off time and time again becuase he doesn't want to lose me.

 

I had to do what was best for both of us and as of a month ago, I ended it with him and actually asked him to let me go. After several long conversations, I became strong enough to agree with him in that I deserve so much more and that he needs to say the words I needed to hear to move on. I know saying the words that he didn't want me, that we had no future, etc. etc. was so hard for him to say. At the end, he said that it was out of love that he's was agreeing to do what I asked and that our situation was complicated by his marriage but the way we felt about each other was so simple. He never said goodbye to me as we parted. I cried and cried for days in slience...alone as I've never shared my relationship with anyone.

 

I've been so heartbroken, I wake up crying and it takes every ounce of me to get up in the morning esp. this holiday season. All the other years when I was not with him over his birthdays (which is a week earlier than mine), Christmas, I thought I was ok. I guess like you, it was the terms of which I agreed to in the beginning so I couldn't complain. I am still in love with this man and when we parted, I left thinking this was the end of us and the beginning of a new chapter in my life, he left me with this feeling that we would meet again. This has been the happiest moment of my life and knowing that I had such blissful times when I was with him was enough to carry me through the sad days.

 

Whether you stay with him or not, remember that you can't help the people you fall in love with. I will never regret the most incredible experiences and memoires I had with him. Most people go through life just numb and going thru the day to day but I know what it was like to be truly in love with someone and to be adored as I was by him.

 

Enjoy and take in every moment you have. Remember how you feel when you are with him and make every minute count. Don't think about what you don't have with this person. The fact that you have a realistic perspective on the rules you set with this person is a good thing as it will help you to keep yourself in check and not get carried away in your dreams about the future or what you might want to happen.

 

I'm certain that kids adds another level of complexity and for me, that was where I drew my line. Perhaps you might consider where you would draw your line to keep yourself in check as well. I understand you as I've been there and feel what you are feeling now. I wish you well.

 

--from a person who was there where you are now.

 

 

See, stories like this confuse me the most...

 

I'm 100% anti-cheating but I do understand that not all relationships are created equal, i.e., destined to last till the end of time. That said, his didn't seem to be a case where he was unhappy with his wife so...what was the point of the affair if 1) His marriage was in tact 2) He didn't have children with her and 3) despite all of the baby talk, weekend mansions and romance, in the end he still didn't end the relationship to be with you?

 

Sure there's the possibility of "morality"/ upholding wedding vows but honestly after carrying on a 5-year affair I...?

 

Sorry, don't mean to sidetrack the thread but it all Just doesn't seem worth it to me.

 

To the OP, sorry to hear you felt lonely at christmas. Hopefully after all of the drama of the D 2006 will be a new start for you ~ the year you'll find love with a man that not only treats you how you deserve to be treated but who is also free to do so.

 

Best of Luck!

[scarletletter]

Actually, there is no way that I want to end it with this man. I am deeply in love with him and he feels the same about me. I am not putting to much into our future because I don't know what will happen. All I know is that he is not the only one cheating, I am also. We are two people madly in love and so surprised that we fell so hard for each other. Now we just have to figure out what to do about it....

[Owl]

So...have you told your H about what's been going on? Went to the lawyer's office to find out what you need to do to get a divorce?

 

Have you gone to a book store and picked up "The Five Love Languages" and sat there and read chapter #2 yet like I'd suggested? (I'm telling you...learn something about this 'in love' thing you're talking about before you do anything else)

 

You know what to do. You need to end your marriage if you can't possibly do without OM. It may be hard on you...but what you're doing now is so unfair to your husband that it's incredible to me that anyone could even consider doing it. From my perspective at least...take the steps you need to NOW. It may mean that you finally have to face the consequences of your choices, but hey...that's the adult thing to do, no?

 

Go tell your H that you are no longer in love with him, that you want a divorce, and that you've been seeing OM/MM all this time. Start that divorce proceeding...THEN worry about your relationship with this other guy. If you're not willing to do this BEFORE you know for sure that you're going to have MM/OM, then that simply says that you've not given up on your marriage...that you're keeping your marriage as a safety net in case things fail between you and OM/MM. Again, not fair to your husband and family at all.

 

You've heard it from me before my friend...so when are you going to start taking action? Ain't nothing holding you back now but fear.

[Brianschick]

Yes, Scarlett..I was missing my MM too over the holidays. And now it's the weekend and I can't see him b/c he is in the military part time.

Anyway, I'm not in love with my MM but I do have an intense lust for him.

If I ever fell in love with him I don't know what I would do.

Well, good luck and try to stay strong.

[jen_jen_heartbroken]

Actually, there is no way that I want to end it with this man. I am deeply in love with him and he feels the same about me. I am not putting to much into our future because I don't know what will happen. All I know is that he is not the only one cheating, I am also. We are two people madly in love and so surprised that we fell so hard for each other. Now we just have to figure out what to do about it....

 

Mad is right. Effing crazy.