Breaking up without closure

[Kryptonite1]

4 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

OK, there are three or so issues here.

One, you guys were only dating six weeks. And you had a major argument of some sort.  Sounds like you got hurt during that argument or maybe from the insult/disconnect that lead to the argument. 

She thought I broke up with her, I thought she broke up with me.

If you guys can't communicate about whether the other who has ended the relationship, I don't see much hope for you two as a couple. 

You blocked her, which is the strongest possible statement you can make that you don't want to communicate anymore. And yet now you're saying you didn't get closure. If you want "closure" (whatever that is--the term is largely a myth) you don't block someone. You want to gain weight, you don't go on a crash diet. 

You do know some of what happened. But in a conflict like this you have to step up and add up the facts and add up the clues of her behavior, her words, her previous thoughts on relationships and so on and add up your thoughts and thinking about relationships and imagine some reasons. You're not going to get "one two three" reasons because people often break up because they can't come to an agreement on what "one two three" things happened. 

If I were her friend and you blocked her, I would tell her to block you and be done with things. 

I blocked her because I don't want to be tempted to break NC. It was nothing personal. Yes, it's a strong statement. It's also a strong statement not communicating something. And again, there was no argument. 

 

[basil67]

1 hour ago, Kryptonite1 said:

No I didn't finish. Apologize for what? 

She stopped the sex because it was hurting her.....and you responded by saying that you wanted to finish.  So possibly apologise for issues around consent. 

Thing is, if it was hurting her, then she would have lost her mood.....so were you expecting her to service you manually/orally even though she'd lost her mood?  Or perhaps you were wanting her to grit her teeth and finish PIV?  Why didn't you go to the bathroom and discretely finish yourself off?  In my house, if one of us can't/doesn't want to finish, we both stop - no questions, no pressure, no asking for more action.

I also find it disturbing that you say she was "triggered".  It's fine for a person to describe themselves as triggered, but it's belittling of someone else's feelings to describe them as triggered...particularly with the overuse of the word as an insult on social media.   Much better to describe what you see...such as she was upset/withdrawn/angry/sad....

[Kryptonite1]

1 minute ago, basil67 said:

She stopped the sex because it was hurting her.....and you responded by saying that you wanted to finish.  So possibly apologise for issues around consent. 

Thing is, if it was hurting her, then she would have lost her mood.....so were you expecting her to service you manually/orally even though she'd lost her mood?  Or perhaps you were wanting her to grit her teeth and finish PIV?  Why didn't you go to the bathroom and discretely finish yourself off?  In my house, if one of us can't/doesn't want to finish, we both stop - no questions, no pressure, no asking for more action.

I also find it disturbing that you say she was "triggered".  It's fine for a person to describe themselves as triggered, but it's belittling of someone else's feelings to describe them as triggered...particularly with the overuse of the word as an insult on social media.   Much better to describe what you see...such as she was upset/withdrawn/angry/sad....

She had mentioned that she would not feel comfortable with me masturbating in front of her. So I didn't. As far a consent, read my post, I stopped, I was not expecting anything else from her. I was consoling, or tried to be. She has some trauma in her past so yes, something could of been triggered. It's absolutely not belittling bringing up scenarios that make sense. Thank you though for your input. Of course she lost the mood, she  was in pain and I tried to console her. Not sure what the big shift in breaking up the next day was, hence why I feel like I needed closure.

[basil67]

7 minutes ago, Kryptonite1 said:

She had mentioned that she would not feel comfortable with me masturbating in front of her. So I didn't. As far a consent, read my post, I stopped, I was not expecting anything else from her. I was consoling, or tried to be. She has some trauma in her past so yes, something could of been triggered. It's absolutely not belittling bringing up scenarios that make sense. Thank you though for your input. Of course she lost the mood, she  was in pain and I tried to console her. Not sure what the big shift in breaking up the next day was, hence why I feel like I needed closure.

Thank you....more information is helpful.  It's very difficult to give feedback without a full story, so I was working with possible scenarios which would make sense.   

All in all though, breakups don't have to happen after an argument.  Sometimes early on in a relationship we see something we're not OK with and just don't feel like it's worth working through.  

I do wonder though why you had to say " just to be clear, you broke up with me and I am firm on that".  What was the purpose of this statement?  Was this you trying to say "I really care about you and don't want to break up"?

 

[Kryptonite1]

Just now, basil67 said:

Thank you....more information is helpful.  It's very difficult to give feedback without a full story, so I was working with possible scenarios which would make sense.   

All in all though, breakups don't have to happen after an argument.  Sometimes early on in a relationship we see something we're not OK with and just don't feel like it's worth working through.  

I do wonder though why you had to say " just to be clear, you broke up with me and I am firm on that".  What was the purpose of this statement?  Was this you trying to say "I really care about you and don't want to break up"?

 

Correct, she made it seem like I broke up with her. After she cancelled our trip and said she couldn't come back from last night, I took that as ok we are breaking up. I sent her a message saying I wish you the best and she interpreted that as me breaking up with her. She wrote it in all caps. I did say I didn't want to break up. I waited about a week before I blocked her. She didn't reach out. At this point, I wish her well and am concentrating on the most important thing, me.

[basil67]

4 minutes ago, Kryptonite1 said:

Correct, she made it seem like I broke up with her. After she cancelled our trip and said she couldn't come back from last night, I took that as ok we are breaking up. I sent her a message saying I wish you the best and she interpreted that as me breaking up with her. She wrote it in all caps. I did say I didn't want to break up. I waited about a week before I blocked her. She didn't reach out. At this point, I wish her well and am concentrating on the most important thing, me.

Ugh, sounds like an epic crash and burn. 

I agree that her words combined with radio silence would be interpreted as a breakup.   However, given that she denies breaking up, she probably didn't actually break up in her mind.  But what she did do is demonstrate that she has very poor communication/relationship skills.   So you actually confirmed an ending which needed to happen anyway. 

Can you imagine having a relationship with someone who deals with issues by sending out a whole lot of mixed messages?  It would be horrible!

[Wiseman2]

Rather than trying to diagnose her, reflect within to see why you're attached to these whirlwinds and this type of drama. 

[Kryptonite1]

2 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Ugh, sounds like an epic crash and burn. 

I agree that her words combined with radio silence would be interpreted as a breakup.   However, given that she denies breaking up, she probably didn't actually break up in her mind.  But what she did do is demonstrate that she has very poor communication/relationship skills.   So you actually confirmed an ending which needed to happen anyway. 

Can you imagine having a relationship with someone who deals with issues by sending out a whole lot of mixed messages?  It would be horrible!

That was my original statement as to why I didn't apologize. I don't think I did anything wrong in this situation. We were usually very communicative about issues and talked a lot. This time was different. Some of my friends say she saw an out and took it. I will never know. Again thank you.

[Kryptonite1]

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

Rather than trying to diagnose her, reflect within to see why you're attached to these whirlwinds and this type of drama. 

Nobody is trying to diagnose anyone. I just finished a book that gave me some really good insight as to why. I am doing a lot of self introspection.

[Lotsgoingon]

Wow this one is convoluted. Why was she initiating sex 3x a day when she had pain issues? Was she working hard to "please" you--as if she was submissive and didn't have power in the relationship?

 I sent her a message saying I wish you the best and she interpreted that as me breaking up with her. 

Hey, 99.9 percent of the  world would interpret "I wish you the best" as a breakup. What were you intending? It's really important that  you put on the lenses so that you can see how those words could likely to interpreted as breakup words. If you wanted to stay in the relationship, that was what you needed to say. You needed to say all the things you like about her in addition to repeating your apology. BTW: it's easy to think apology is enough. Actually praise and affirmation of her and your fondness of her is also important in situations like this one. 

Learning how to speak when our partner is hurt takes practice. And unfortunately some of the best practice (and feedback) occurs when things blow up as they have here. So learn from this experience. NEVER wish someone well unless you are breaking up. That's not actually a close case. 

Your "finish" line definitely triggered her. But she was already on edge. Sounds like you retracted your comment--I can't quite tell. 

[Kryptonite1]

1 hour ago, Lotsgoingon said:

Wow this one is convoluted. Why was she initiating sex 3x a day when she had pain issues? Was she working hard to "please" you--as if she was submissive and didn't have power in the relationship?

 I sent her a message saying I wish you the best and she interpreted that as me breaking up with her. 

Hey, 99.9 percent of the  world would interpret "I wish you the best" as a breakup. What were you intending? It's really important that  you put on the lenses so that you can see how those words could likely to interpreted as breakup words. If you wanted to stay in the relationship, that was what you needed to say. You needed to say all the things you like about her in addition to repeating your apology. BTW: it's easy to think apology is enough. Actually praise and affirmation of her and your fondness of her is also important in situations like this one. 

Learning how to speak when our partner is hurt takes practice. And unfortunately some of the best practice (and feedback) occurs when things blow up as they have here. So learn from this experience. NEVER wish someone well unless you are breaking up. That's not actually a close case. 

Your "finish" line definitely triggered her. But she was already on edge. Sounds like you retracted your comment--I can't quite tell. 

Thank you very much for taking the time to answer my post. I don't know why she was initiating when in pain, there are things I don't have answers too. We was not quite aggressive, not really submissive. The message you are referring to was in response to something that I interpreted as her breaking up with me. I hope you took the time to thoroughly read my posts. Most people who I shared with what she said "I can't come back from last night" and "Lets cancel next week" could be seen as a break up. I was just following her lead. I felt no need to apologize because what did I do wrong? If she communicated something I did wrong, I would apologize. There was no communication. I am by no means perfect and for other reasons I am ok with the breakup, I am not ok with how it happened or lack of communication.  I do agree with my finish comment and that is the one thing I would take back and or apologize for and I did in bed. 

[basil67]

1 hour ago, Kryptonite1 said:

I don't know why she was initiating when in pain, there are things I don't have answers too.

For what it's worth, the pain could have started after she initiated, particularly if it was a long session.  

 

[Kryptonite1]

7 minutes ago, basil67 said:

For what it's worth, the pain could have started after she initiated, particularly if it was a long session.  

 

Basil, I agree and I am not faulting her for that in the least bit. As a male, stopping mid sex is uncomfortable. i understood her plight and I tried my best to console her without my needs being met. For my own sanity, whatever happened that night was not a reflection of me, but more her issue. I know that sounds selfish, but it's the truth. Had she chosen to communicate with me, it would of been different. Lesson learned.

[basil67]

9 minutes ago, Kryptonite1 said:

Basil, I agree and I am not faulting her for that in the least bit. As a male, stopping mid sex is uncomfortable. i understood her plight and I tried my best to console her without my needs being met. For my own sanity, whatever happened that night was not a reflection of me, but more her issue. I know that sounds selfish, but it's the truth. Had she chosen to communicate with me, it would of been different. Lesson learned.

I'm not saying it was anyone's fault....just stating the fact that pain can come during a lengthy session and that the pain hadn't neecessarily been there when she initiated.   Had it been a long session?  For instance, I'm wondering if you were deliberately holding back or having trouble climaxing? 

[Kryptonite1]

6 minutes ago, basil67 said:

I'm not saying it was anyone's fault....just stating the fact that pain can come during a lengthy session and that the pain hadn't neecessarily been there when she initiated.   Had it been a long session?  For instance, I'm wondering if you were deliberately holding back or having trouble climaxing? 

This particular time it wasn't a long session, maybe 5-10 minutes before she advised she was in pain. I do however have high stamina, 30-40 mins before I finish. I understand she was sore and I am truly upset that i was the reason.

[basil67]

16 minutes ago, Kryptonite1 said:

This particular time it wasn't a long session, maybe 5-10 minutes before she advised she was in pain. I do however have high stamina, 30-40 mins before I finish. I understand she was sore and I am truly upset that i was the reason.

Yeah, 30-40 mins would leave me in pain and honestly, wishing it would end 😳  5-10 minutes would start to hurt if I'd had a few recent sessions lasting 30-40 mins  We may not having many nerve endings inside, but abrasions around the entrance to the vagina can very much be a thing.

Edited April 2 by basil67

[Wiseman2]

If she was in pain it's understandable she wanted to stop. You can finish yourself off rather than being angry she couldn't continue. 

[Kryptonite1]

12 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

If she was in pain it's understandable she wanted to stop. You can finish yourself off rather than being angry she couldn't continue. 

Wiseman, read my posts. We had a convo about this, she was against me doing that. I was not angry. Please be objective and not projecting your own insecurites.

[Lotsgoingon]

If you guys can't have a conversation over this (even a heated one or one with tears and apologies), then you and she simply don't have the chemistry and trust that a couple needs. So you can drop your worry about making a mistake. This relationship wasn't going anyplace anyway. 

[SoulCat]

18 hours ago, Kryptonite1 said:

 

 

I made a comment that I wanted to finish and I understood she was in pain.

 

 

She was in pain, my man. 

You expressing your need 'to finish' is at best incredibly thoughtless and crass, and at worst an indication that you place your pleasure above her comfort. 

In the immediate aftermath, your attempts to comfort her by getting physical again by hugging & kissing her may well have come across to her as you trying again for sex in order for you to 'finish'.

I'm not saying that those were your intentions, but they may very well have been perceived that way.

For most women, that's a breach of trust and a violation of boundaries.
Considering you have only known each other a very short time, trust is still very fragile and I can understand that she saw it as a red flag. 

Take some time. Reflect. Move on.
That is your 'closure'.

[Alpacalia]

TBH, this was only a glimpse into a larger situation.  

It's not to say she was 100% right in how she treated you IMO. You are right that she appeared to "invite" your interludes and then follow up with genuine and familiar foreplay but then once you were sailing towards a finish you basically were met with this turn-off - "your concern about finishing" (as perhaps being part of the "uncomfortable" narrative?) So basically you stopped. That was a good move.

Instead though, this young woman launched into "over-thinking" as perhaps a result of her pain, the sexual turn-off, AND your "concern about finishing" each time. Why did she not then when you rightly complained "explain" to you OR ask your thoughts on how to correct the matter provided of course you meant something genuinely good for her (and not just a whimsical return of love technique if you understand my meaning?).

I get that the entire time you both proceeded VERY gently. She just was getting off in the sack only to get 3 demerits: pain, distance and disconnectivity all in short order.

She consented then you consented, but then she asked you to stop because she was in pain. So you did. I think it was kind of selfish to then mention you still wanted to finish up.  It's not on the same level as intentionally disregarding her consent, it's a lesser infraction.

I also get why she may have reacted and shown that she backed off from touch.  She was now too uncomfortable to feel close, too afraid to say cross words by saying any.  So she let you hold her. She later chose to end things, probably because she couldn't face something, whatever that was. No one can say.

You say you didn't break up with her because you didn't see it that way.  She certainly did. 

Maybe she thought she disappointed you.

If as I first surmised the exchange you two had was not about sex, who knows?  But it's likely safe to say it was actually about something bigger than just an issue with sex. But really, it doesn't matter so much what it was about. You decided you preferred to have no contact after that, and that was a choice you made - not because you didn't want her around, but because you didn't want whatever should be repaired, fixed and finished. Blocking her doesn't finish that.

What you're wanting is closure, but until you get honest with yourself, a therapist or someone else - why she matters and why now - you will still feel something's amiss for longer than it would have otherwise taken to have anything she'd done settled.

[mark clemson]

She initiates but then hurts, but won't "permit" you to finish yourself off. You "need" to finish, so go ahead even though she's complaining of pain. You phrase a text a bit off and it turns into a week of cold shoulder and then a break up, without follow up communication that might have smoothed things over.

With all this analyzing and apparent physical and psychological/personality incompatibilities it's probably better that this ended rather than you two trying to "make it work." I do think you could reflect on how you could have handled some of this better, but I could certainly see how anything between you and this particular woman seems likely to just devolve into an even more convoluted and constantly "walking on eggshells" type of relationship. Best to be glad it's over sooner rather than later so you can focus on finding a more compatible partner.

Edited April 2 by mark clemson

[Gebidozo]

A woman having pain from too much sex, especially 30-40 minutes sessions, is completely normal. She asked you to stop because she was having pain. You asked whether you could finish, she said no. Under normal circumstances, that would be the end of story.

Though I don’t quite understand why she wasn’t ok with letting you finish manually (alone or with her), it’s still her right to refuse that. No big deal. People don’t break up over that.

So that leaves two possibilities:

1) Something in the way you asked her whether you could finish was so incredibly hurtful that she couldn’t forgive you. Maybe you said it in an aggressive or cold tone or something. Maybe she felt you didn’t care at all for her pain. The question itself is normal and not hurtful. I’d say something like this, “Oh baby, I’m so sorry! I didn’t mean to cause you pain”, then pull out, console her, and then maybe ask, “Is it ok if I still finish?”. I don’t know how you worded it.

2) There are some other issues in the relationship that could possibly lead to a breakup.

[mark clemson]

Consider - if she doesn't want him to finish manually in bed with her, that's one thing.

If she doesn't want him to finish manually at all, independent of her, that's quite another in my view (and generally a red flag in a relationship).

Both are taking away agency over their own bodies from the other - her by attempting to control whether he can orgasm or not, him by insisting he do so inside her even though she's stating she's in pain.

Of course all of this could be avoided with a bit of reasonableness on both parts, but neither apparently can give that. Hence incompatibility - with the sex leading to distress on both parts, rather than mutual pleasure, satisfaction, and bonding.

[basil67]

When you wrote that you told her "I want to finish", was that paraphrasing?   Could there have been any doubt that you want to finish yourself off?