Can't Get Over the Hatred

[tzorno]

4 hours ago, Will am I said:

 @tzorno try to open up to these different perspectives because understanding the different sides to a story is a powerful tool to move beyond the anger stage.

Hard to see other perspectives when my cheating ex is going on luxurious vacations all the time and leads a life of no worries, no responsibility, and no accountability while i'm stuck struggling to make ends meet.

 

[tzorno]

12 hours ago, basil67 said:

As for women being the initiator of more divorce, I would argue that it's simply because women can't be bothered putting up with a s*** marriage.  

This take is a reach to say the least.  So women are so much smarter and mentally superior to men that they see things men can't?  The decision to leave a marriage becomes a lot easier when you know your going to get the big payday afterwards.  Strange how the statistics are overwhelming favoring the woman.

[Will am I]

I don’t think she’s claiming superiority.

The same marriages where the wives leave all have a husband too. He has equal rights to pull the plug.

So we have to wonder: what is keeping men from taking matters into our own hands?

Maybe it is fear of receiving a bad deal at custody or alimony. But looking at the statistics women have a lot to fear as well. Despite spousal support, long term finances for divorced men are up and for divorced women they are down.

This whole thing is a big generalization, but let’s face that men have their own strategies and women have theirs. I suspect a lot of men in crappy marriages hide in work, porn and alcohol. 

[tzorno]

22 minutes ago, Will am I said:

The same marriages where the wives leave all have a husband too. He has equal rights to pull the plug.

So we have to wonder: what is keeping men from taking matters into our own hands?

I've given you the answer to this already.  The man is going to lose half of his retirement, half of his assets, and more than likely custody of his children, his home, and on top of all of that be liable for child support and alimony.  That's why it's an 80% initiation by women.  Pretty great deal for them.  Not so much for the man.

[Weezy1973]

9 minutes ago, tzorno said:

I've given you the answer to this already.  The man is going to lose half of his retirement, half of his assets, and more than likely custody of his children, his home, and on top of all of that be liable for child support and alimony.  That's why it's an 80% initiation by women.  Pretty great deal for them.  Not so much for the man.

All assets and debts are considered family assets and get divided by two. It wasn’t your pension. It was both of your pensions that gets split. It wasn’t your home. It was both of your home. They weren’t your assets; they belonged to you each equally. Marriage is a legal contract, and that’s the contract. 
 

As for custody, in the vast majority of marriages, the woman is the primary caregiver and that carries on after marriage. 

[Will am I]

Indeed. It helps to realize that divorce generally doesn’t move money from one partner to the other. 

There’s two aspects: asset division and spousal support.

In financial terms a way to describe it is that a latent obligation (to take care of your wife for the rest of your or her life) is materialized. It receives a dollar valuation.

But that number should be in the same league as what you would otherwise have paid over the course of many years together.

You’re not giving her half the house, you’re buying her share in the joint property. That half was already hers. You’re writing a big check every month, but it sets you free from the obligation to support her as your wife. 

I once heard a divorce lawyer say that if you think you can’t afford divorce, then you definitely can’t afford to stay married. When you are married your spouse can create new debt under your shared liability and there’s no limit and there’s no legal recourse. How is being married financially safer or cheaper than the brutally costly divorce?

 

Accept that the cost you are suffering (and I do believe you are) is payments on a large debt that you incurred on your wedding day. It might help you shift the anger and move on.

[basil67]

@tzorno  you started this thread with the view to getting over your hatred, but you're actively winding yourself up even more.   At this point, the anger is eating you alive and you're actively cultivating it.

Do you actually want help or are you looking for an echo chamber?

 

Edited April 11 by basil67

[tzorno]

9 minutes ago, basil67 said:

@tzorno  you started this thread with the view to getting over your hatred, but you're actively winding yourself up even more.   At this point, the anger is eating you alive and you're actively cultivating it.

Do you actually want help or are you looking for an echo chamber?

 

You are right.  The topic has changed and I didn't come here to debate divorce laws (although i'm shocked that some are defending them).  There has to be equality, but just because a person is with you, that shouldn't entitle them to unfair dividends.  I'm speaking from my perspective though as I got shafted.  I lost my inheritance, half my 401k (she had none), and i'm stuck solely now paying all the bills plus the addition of the loans she dumped on me plus she's getting half the gas royalties every month for the rest of her life or until they stop.  Meanwhile she got all of that and moved in with her sugar daddy who has money hand over fist.  Like I said, there's reservations in hell for cheaters so at least I have that going for me.

The one positive is my son learned from my mistakes.  He's getting married next week and forced his soon to be wife to sign a prenup so good on him.

[basil67]

29 minutes ago, tzorno said:

You are right.  The topic has changed and I didn't come here to debate divorce laws (although i'm shocked that some are defending them).  There has to be equality, but just because a person is with you, that shouldn't entitle them to unfair dividends.  I'm speaking from my perspective though as I got shafted.  I lost my inheritance, half my 401k (she had none), and i'm stuck solely now paying all the bills plus the addition of the loans she dumped on me plus she's getting half the gas royalties every month for the rest of her life or until they stop.  Meanwhile she got all of that and moved in with her sugar daddy who has money hand over fist.  Like I said, there's reservations in hell for cheaters so at least I have that going for me.

The one positive is my son learned from my mistakes.  He's getting married next week and forced his soon to be wife to sign a prenup so good on him.

You're still winding yourself up.  I ask again, are you here to get over your anger or to find an echo chamber?

The first step to getting over the anger is to avoid actively cultivating it....it's about recognising that you can't undo the past and working on leaving it behind

Edited April 11 by basil67

[tzorno]

27 minutes ago, basil67 said:

You're still winding yourself up.  I ask again, are you here to get over your anger or to find an echo chamber?

The first step to getting over the anger is to avoid actively cultivating it....it's about recognising that you can't undo the past and working on leaving it behind

Your right again.  No more talking about that.  It'll all get better with time.  I have a sweetheart for a girlfriend now and the love and respect of my kids and granddaughter.  I'm not homeless or starving.  Life is good and will only get better.

[basil67]

It's good to hear that you're living your best life and that you have solid friends around you.   I know it sounds trite but focussing on the here and now, and counting your blessings really is the way forward. That....and time.  

Just like a broken limb or some kind of disease, emotional healing takes time

Edited April 12 by basil67

[MsJayne]

Forgiveness is way over-rated, but instead of letting the anger eat away at you, sit back and wait for time and the universe to do their thing. Big chance your ex will end up being ill-treated by the Town A*****e and will sorely regret her actions. If, or more likely when, that happens don't be surprised if she comes around butt-kissing looking for sympathy and support from the people who once loved her.  Your ego's taking a battering because she's enjoying a lifestyle you couldn't give her, but you're taking an unrealistic view. She's dining out on Town A*****e's coin and when she starts acting entitled, which she will, the wheels will fall off. 

[Will am I]

10 hours ago, tzorno said:

I lost my inheritance, half my 401k (she had none), and i'm stuck solely now paying all the bills plus the addition of the loans she dumped on me plus she's getting half the gas royalties every month for the rest of her life or until they stop.  Meanwhile she got all of that and moved in with her sugar daddy who has money hand over fist.  

I seems you are looking to the courts to compensate you for the unfair treatment you received during marriage.

That's not what courts do. The co-called "no fault divorce" has become common in many legislations. Courts don't listen to how bad a spouse this or that person was and set the asset division and/or alimony accordingly.

There are some states in the US where infidelity prevents the cheater from receiving spousal support, but that's by no means universal. Generally the legal side reads like contract law: you signed up to support your wife for life, you are choosing to terminate the contract before expiration and now the remaining bill materializes into payments. I understand your need for emotional justice, but that's just not what courts do.

Edited April 12 by Will am I

[tzorno]

3 hours ago, Will am I said:

I seems you are looking to the courts to compensate you for the unfair treatment you received during marriage.

That's not what courts do. The co-called "no fault divorce" has become common in many legislations. Courts don't listen to how bad a spouse this or that person was and set the asset division and/or alimony accordingly.

There are some states in the US where infidelity prevents the cheater from receiving spousal support, but that's by no means universal. Generally the legal side reads like contract law: you signed up to support your wife for life, you are choosing to terminate the contract before expiration and now the remaining bill materializes into payments. I understand your need for emotional justice, but that's just not what courts do.

The only thing i'm asking for is that crappy people be held accountable but they never are.  Instead they are rewarded and it seems like its only a one path deal.  That's all.  You'll have to forgive me if i'm a little tilted towards the red-pill right now.  It sure just seems that the evil wins a lot more than the good.

Anyways, as said before, this only gets me going even more when talking about it so let's just drop it.

[Weezy1973]

39 minutes ago, tzorno said:

You'll have to forgive me if i'm a little tilted towards the red-pill right now.  It sure just seems that the evil wins a lot more than the good.

The way you win is by living your best life and shedding your anger and hatred. You win by being happy. The divorce settlement is not preventing your happiness; it’s your belief that it’s unfair that preventing your happiness. If you can just accept it in an “it is what it is” way that you can’t do anything about (and why fret over thing you can’t control) that will bring you closer to winning.

[tzorno]

1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

The way you win is by living your best life and shedding your anger and hatred. You win by being happy. The divorce settlement is not preventing your happiness; it’s your belief that it’s unfair that preventing your happiness. If you can just accept it in an “it is what it is” way that you can’t do anything about (and why fret over thing you can’t control) that will bring you closer to winning.

I always get the 'live your best life' line and I honestly don't know what that even means.  If living your best life is struggling financially to the point it's hard to do things and enjoy yourself then I guess i'm right on target.  It'll get better in 3 years when the loans are paid off, but until then it's going to be hard and that constant reminder/trigger will be there.

Winning to me is when the offending party gets a taste of suffering too.  My daughter told me her mother had a panic attack and missed work because of the realization her son is getting married next week and she isn't invited.  Now that's a small win in my book.

[Weezy1973]

48 minutes ago, tzorno said:

I always get the 'live your best life' line and I honestly don't know what that even means. 

It just means you’re content with where your life is at. If you’re hoping for some sort of suffering for your ex, it means she’s taking a lot of mental space in your mind, and she’s not worth it. That’s not winning. 

[Lotsgoingon]

5 hours ago, tzorno said:

The only thing i'm asking for is that crappy people be held accountable but they never are.  Instead they are rewarded and it seems like its only a one path deal.  That's all.

This is nonsense. Crappy people cannot force themselves on partners. Partners have a right--indeed duty to themselves--to avoid crappy people. You opened your wallet and now you're mad that she accepted your gifts. You should have left her decades ago! Decades!  How your failure to do so her fault? Dude, you're acting like she kidnapped you and held you prisoner and poisoned you with drugs that made you unable to think or act. 

No, you simply did not have the confidence and awareness to realize she was a terrible partner. There are reasons for that--dating back to your past, which you would do well to investigate. But blaming her with you were passive makes no sense. 

Don't fall into sexism and thinking women have some great advantage over men. In fact, women fall into poverty after divorce far more often than men--far more. 

I know so many stories of men coming out way ahead after divorce. Way ahead. And that's after often controlling money during the marriage. 

[tzorno]

30 minutes ago, Lotsgoingon said:

This is nonsense. Crappy people cannot force themselves on partners. Partners have a right--indeed duty to themselves--to avoid crappy people. You opened your wallet and now you're mad that she accepted your gifts. You should have left her decades ago! Decades!  How your failure to do so her fault? Dude, you're acting like she kidnapped you and held you prisoner and poisoned you with drugs that made you unable to think or act. 

No, you simply did not have the confidence and awareness to realize she was a terrible partner. There are reasons for that--dating back to your past, which you would do well to investigate. But blaming her with you were passive makes no sense. 

Don't fall into sexism and thinking women have some great advantage over men. In fact, women fall into poverty after divorce far more often than men--far more. 

I know so many stories of men coming out way ahead after divorce. Way ahead. And that's after often controlling money during the marriage. 

How is this being twisted on me?  Yeah, i'm guilty of loving my ex to much (we were together since we were 19) and believing she was a better person than she really was , but i'm not the lying, drunken, cheating, felon here,,,she is.  How is it that i'm made out to be the one who should suffer while she gets a free pass?  How is everything my fault?

Women do have an advantage.  After a divorce they have a financial head start in life.  Also, they are more apt to find another partner who in turn will take care of them.  If they somehow fail on that level, than they are doing something really wrong.  The men that come out ahead after a divorce are men that either stay single or don't marry again and for good reason.  

Once again = women initiate divorce 80% of the time.  They have nothing to lose and everything to gain.  

[Acacia98]

On 4/11/2024 at 5:07 AM, tzorno said:

If the laws don't favor the woman, why is it that they initiate 80% of all divorces?  It's because they know it's a big payday.  Yeah, we'll have to agree to disagree.  There are rare cases where the woman was the bread winner and pays or she may have been an addict or something and lost custody of the kids, but like I said, it's rare.  The divorce laws are set up so that a woman can cheat or do whatever and she's going to take the man to the cleaners everytime.  The court doesn't care if the woman is Satan, she's still going to take half of everything and make out like a bandit.  Most of the times they shack up with another guy thats going to provide for them anyways.  They need to change.

Much of the hurt from a divorce come's from the financial struggles the man finds himself in after the court awards the woman with damn near everything.  Just ask my bank account.  On average, it takes a man about 5 years to recover financially and many times its longer than that.
 

Why do you have to create a narrative about all women/most women in order to legitimize your own heartbreaking experience? You were in a terrible marriage; your wife was clearly a terrible person to you and your kid. And you have every right to be angry with her and about the financial outcome of the divorce. You matter. Your experience matters. You don't have to seek significance in numbers.

Also, I think your best bet for getting to a better place emotionally is trying to reclaim whatever agency you lost earlier in your life (I'm guessing) and, subsequently, in your marriage and divorce: are there things you can do to improve your situation legally/financially/emotionally? Is it possible that a different legal professional would help you get more advantageous terms? Could you get financial advice to help you figure out how to stretch your money further? And is it possible for you to get counselling to help you deal with the accumulated emotional stuff?

I'm not sure what I think about forgiveness. But I do feel you would do well to deal with your anger because anger does things to your health: hypertension comes to mind. Ditto all sorts of chronic illness. It's not a good idea to hold on to the anger because it's eating you up on the inside.

[basil67]

4 hours ago, tzorno said:

How is this being twisted on me?  Yeah, i'm guilty of loving my ex to much (we were together since we were 19) and believing she was a better person than she really was , but i'm not the lying, drunken, cheating, felon here,,,she is.  How is it that i'm made out to be the one who should suffer while she gets a free pass?  How is everything my fault?

And here you are back in your angry place again and ranting about divorce laws.  The very wise @glows wrote on another post "You have to learn to be in control of your own actions and emotions" and this applies here too. 

There is obviously a time early on in the divorce when the changes are new and raw, and the anger is very real....but if it persists to the point where you are asking for advice on overcoming it, then you need to be more proactive about shutting it down.  Learn to redirect each time it arrives.  There is absolutely no sense in getting angry about things we cannot change.   

I saw that you do a redirect a few posts back about not wanting to go down the rabbit hole of discussing the divorce and this redirect was perfect.  But unfortunately, the posts on that topic kept up and you've fallen back in again.  So what can you do now to get back in control?   It seems to me that your options could involve doing a broad post about not wanting to discuss that topic further because it puts you in a bad place.  You could also respond to each poster that you're trying to control your emotions and realise that you shouldn't dwell on the topic.  Or if the whole thread is too triggering, walk away from it.   Take control!

And if you haven't already done so, stay away from Red Pill sites. Just like any extremist group, their whole approach is to promote hate and anger, so they will do harm to your mental health.  

As an aside, I think that "I'm guilty of loving my ex too much" is not taking responsibility for staying with someone who alienated you and all your friends.  Have you ever questioned why you chose to love someone who was a shrew that drove off all your friends?   All the signs were there that she was a dreadful woman and I think that part of your healing will involve taking responsibility for your own choice to stay.  "Love" is a cop out.

Edited April 13 by basil67

[Gebidozo]

On 4/11/2024 at 4:17 AM, tzorno said:

Honestly, divorce laws need to change.  Women always win.  It's why women initiate divorce 80% of the time.  They know they are going to win.  It's not the 50's anymore.  The laws need to change.

I’m a guy and I was sorry to learn about your situation, but this is just your grief and bitterness talking.

As somebody who has divorced before and has been friends with quite a few divorced people, I can testify that women initiate divorce 80% of the time because 80% of the time their husbands behaved like complete a**h***s.

Yours case is in the minority. That doesn’t make it any easier for you, of course. But I don’t think you should be exacerbating your negative emotions by extrapolating your understandable anger at one particular woman onto the general female population of the planet.

[Gebidozo]

On 4/12/2024 at 4:31 AM, Will am I said:

So we have to wonder: what is keeping men from taking matters into our own hands?

That is an excellent question. 

From my experience, men divorce less because they are either less sensitive to marital problems, more afraid of drastic changes, or both.

Men are more likely to think everything is fine in the marriage when clearly it’s not. We are typically less attuned to the moods of women than the other way around. We tend to bury problems by overly focusing on other aspects of life. We hate losing control and adapt to new situations, and divorce is obviously a huge case of that.

[basil67]

4 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

That is an excellent question. 

From my experience, men divorce less because they are either less sensitive to marital problems, more afraid of drastic changes, or both.

Men are more likely to think everything is fine in the marriage when clearly it’s not. We are typically less attuned to the moods of women than the other way around. We tend to bury problems by overly focusing on other aspects of life. We hate losing control and adapt to new situations, and divorce is obviously a huge case of that.

Indeed. 

My ex husband knew that I was unhappy but he refused counselling or to consider changes.  So I eventually left.   Had he looked at what I wanted and decided it was not for him, he could have chosen to leave me, but he didn't.  He basically handed over the decision to me via his own inaction

[Weezy1973]

12 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

From my experience, men divorce less because they are either less sensitive to marital problems, more afraid of drastic changes, or both.

I also think men “need” women more than vice versa in general. Men’s spouses are often the only people in the world that they can be vulnerable or emotional with. Whereas women tend to have a lot of friends as well as their partners that serve similar purposes. My sister just got divorced and her ex already has a new girlfriend whereas she doesn’t even really have the urge to start dating. When my dad died, my mom had no intention of dating or marrying again and never had. It’s not needed.