Can't Get Over the Hatred

[mark clemson]

23 hours ago, tzorno said:

Going out and constructively earn more sounds great.  Any ideas?  I've thought about it a ton and can't think of anything worthwhile.  I'm 54

There are tons of ways to make extra money - from writing a novel to processing medical billing to consulting in an area you understand well to hauling gravel. There are lists of potential side gigs you can research on the internet. Not all of them are great but at 54 I'd say it's on you to figure out what will actually work and be worthwhile for you.

 

23 hours ago, tzorno said:

I find that crappy people usually never get their dues or karma they deserve.  They just keep being crappy while society and decent people are forced to tolerate it. they almost always seem to come out on top.

 

I too don't believe in "karma" although it does sometimes seem to occur. Nonetheless IMO you have a distorted view. Many of the truly crappiest people end up in prison, although it's true that's sometimes after hurting a lot of nice ones on the way.

Also the arbitrariness of life strikes crappy and nice people equally. Just because the complete a-hole who got maimed in a car accident, became homeless, and froze to death in a gutter never got to share their story with you doesn't mean it never happened.

Edited April 17 by mark clemson

[mark clemson]

22 hours ago, tzorno said:

Cheaters are the worst human beings in the world.  They value nothing or anybody but themselves.  They are weak and selfish.  All cheaters should have a reservation to Hell. 

Keep in mind there are people in the world who feel the same way about those who eat hamburgers, women who wear bikinis, gun owners, etc, etc.

Your strong opinions are exactly and only that - strong opinions. Like armpits, everybody has them and most of them stink.

Honestly, after skimming through your responses above I'm starting to wonder what your "awful" Ex-wife's side of the story might sound like. You seem to be chock full of misogynistic generalizations, among other things.

Edited April 17 by mark clemson

[Els]

On 4/17/2024 at 5:27 AM, tzorno said:

Explain please.  What am I generalizing?

Sure, go to your profile, hold Ctrl + F, and type "women". You will then find a rather extensive list of your generalizations, I'm unfortunately a bit short on time to post them all here.

Do you not qualify for any programs for subsidized therapy? Have you told anyone that you need help from a mental health professional but can't afford it, perhaps they could help you out or suggest options?

[tzorno]

1 hour ago, mark clemson said:

Keep in mind there are people in the world who feel the same way about those who eat hamburgers, women who wear bikinis, gun owners, etc, etc.

Your strong opinions are exactly and only that - strong opinions. Like armpits, everybody has them and most of them stink.

Honestly, after skimming through your responses above I'm starting to wonder what your "awful" Ex-wife's side of the story might sound like. You seem to be chock full of misogynistic generalizations, among other things.

Last time I looked at the 10 commandments, I don't remember eating hamburgers, wearing bikinis, or owning guns being on it.  Guess what was?  

Yeah, I expected this eventually.  I'm wondering what my ex-wifes side of the story is too.  If you find out, let me know.  At least ask her kids.  They'll shed some light for you.  Paint me as a villain as you will, but there's a reason her son will probably never speak to her ever again and her daughter is embarrassed and ashamed of her.  Like I said before, I haven't told the whole story.  Haven't even dusted the top. 

 

Edited April 17 by tzorno
Addition to post

[tzorno]

14 minutes ago, Els said:

Sure, go to your profile, hold Ctrl + F, and type "women". You will then find a rather extensive list of your generalizations, I'm unfortunately a bit short on time to post them all here.

Do you not qualify for any programs for subsidized therapy? Have you told anyone that you need help from a mental health professional but can't afford it, perhaps they could help you out or suggest options?

Let me guess, your female?  Also, by the way you have me all figured out, i'm guessing your a therapist, psychologist, or something in that field too right?

[Els]

1 minute ago, tzorno said:

Let me guess, your female?  Also, by the way you have me all figured out, i'm guessing your a therapist, psychologist, or something in that field too right?

You do realize that the other two people telling you on this thread that you're generalizing and a misogynist are male, right?

But by all means, carry on as you are. It's not me that has to carry that 100lbs chip on my shoulder for the remainder of my life. If you like it, hey, you do you.

[basil67]

7 hours ago, tzorno said:

Why or how wasn't I good enough,

With all that appalling behaviour, you'd still rather be with her?  

[tzorno]

3 hours ago, basil67 said:

With all that appalling behaviour, you'd still rather be with her?  

No.  Not at all at this point, but I still wonder what happened.

[basil67]

1 hour ago, tzorno said:

No.  Not at all at this point, but I still wonder what happened.

You talk of wondering how you weren't good enough....

You mentioned the long hours you were doing, with only every second weekend off.  How did she react to that?  If the children were young, I would imagine it would have been very difficult for her.   Did she ever object?  If so, how did you address the issue?

Edited April 18 by basil67

[tzorno]

8 hours ago, basil67 said:

You talk of wondering how you weren't good enough....

You mentioned the long hours you were doing, with only every second weekend off.  How did she react to that?  If the children were young, I would imagine it would have been very difficult for her.   Did she ever object?  If so, how did you address the issue?

It wasn't easy.  I missed out on a lot of life memories, holidays, and family activities, but we agreed early on that I would work the midnight shifts while she would work during the day so the kids would never have to go to daycare.  I lived through years of only having 2 to 3 hours of sleep a day, but it was worth it.  That was a long time ago though.  The kids are adults in their mid 20's.  After my mother passed, the plan was for me to quit my job and get something else so that we could enjoy each other and have time together since money was no longer an issue, but she was in full swing with her ways by then and she just ended up with my inheritance anyways.  Yes, she waited until my mother died so she could cash in.  

Her father was a loon and her mother packed up and just left one day (moved half way across the country).  Basically abandoned my ex when she was 18.  Ex had just started nursing school and moved in with her Aunt.  Her older sister was married and established at that point, but didn't talk to her mother for 10 years after the stunt she pulled.  Anyways, my parents stepped up and basically took her in and accepted her as my partner.  They set us up with a place to live and helped us out when we needed it.  When the kids were born, my mother would babysit for us.  So it's really hard for me to accept that my ex took advantage of my parents generosity and still lives off of them to this day and will for the rest of her life.  

As for how I addressed the living issues when we were married?  I constantly told her I would quit my job and do whatever was necessary as long as we were happy.  I didn't care if we had to live in a tent under a bridge as long as we were together.  Evidently, that wasn't good enough.  True love would have prevailed through that though.  My dad worked three jobs to provide for his family and was basically only home to sleep and that lasted for years while us kids were growing up and that marriage lasted.  Times sure have changed.

[tzorno]

I realize everybody is only getting my side of the story and like I said before, I also would love to know her side.  I'll indulge a little more since i've just found out some current stuff from my daughter (that I didn't ask for).

At the time of her cheating, my ex told her then good friend (and now mine) that she was still cheating on me and her plans to leave me when my mother died (who had been ill for a very long time).  Her friend heard what she was saying and lit her up.  They had a huge undoing and never spoke again.  This is a friend we used to vacation with and was my ex-wifes boss at one time.  

Anyways, the guy she was cheating with and now lives with is notorious for ruthlessly pursuing women he wanted and wouldn't stop until the message was made clear.  He has done this with many people I know.  He kept giving my ex money, presents, and promises that she ate up.  When my daughter questioned her how she would rather have those things than a person who truly loved her, the ex replied that he made her feel like a real woman.  I don't know what that even means.  A friend of mine once said - do you thing she would be with that guy if he worked in a mill and was just an average money maker like the rest of us?  Of course the answer would be no.  She chose a life of no responsibility, accountability, and money.  While that sounds nice on the top, she lost the love and respect of her kids, lost her granddaughter, the love and respect of her family and the people that cared for her most.  There is no amount of money worth that to me.  She has the life she craved, but paid an enormous price for it.

Currently - I've come to find out from my daughter that the ex has her own bedroom in his house and he does not allow her to sleep with him in his.  When they eat, he is served first and she can't start until he does.  She drinks every night to dull her pain, feelings, and guilt (he's a drunk too).  They have been banned from almost every establishment in town.  They live at the local Moose lodge because thats about the only place that accepts them unless they go out of town.

Looking at all of this, i'm doing fine.  It seems like she's on a road to self-destruction.  

[mark clemson]

21 hours ago, tzorno said:

Last time I looked at the 10 commandments, I don't remember eating hamburgers, wearing bikinis, or owning guns being on it.

A point which proves nothing - you can bet people with these views can all point to various scriptures they follow and explain why e.g. eating a cheeseburger or a woman walking out of the house in gym clothes (or daring to contemplate a social role outside that of homemaker) is "morally wrong".

Since you're quoting Biblical scripture I'd point out that working on a Saturday is also against those very same "laws". (And yes it's Saturday if you're following the OT.)

BTW, I hope you're not actually sleeping with that wonderful new GF - as you know unmarried sex is forbidden according to the NT. In fact, divorce is ALSO forbidden per 2nd Paul. So, I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive all those "evil" cheaters. Since your divorce is against what's directly written in the NT, by a very reasonable interpretation of it you're not only still married, but in an adulterous relationship yourself.

Edited April 18 by mark clemson

[Will am I]

Your ex wife seems like a damaged person without the right and consistent role models.

It doesn’t change what she did.

It can change your choice of how you experience her actions.

[Weezy1973]

3 hours ago, tzorno said:

Looking at all of this, i'm doing fine.  It seems like she's on a road to self-destruction.  

It sounds to me like she had a traumatic childhood / upbringing so chaos is something that makes her feel alive. Or like a “real woman” in this case. She’s crashing and burning unfortunately. All the terrible stuff she’s done again is just her best attempt to be happy and free from pain and suffering. She’s going about it all the wrong way of course, but it comes from a place of pain. 

[tzorno]

30 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

A point which proves nothing - you can bet people with these views can all point to various scriptures they follow and explain why e.g. eating a cheeseburger or a woman walking out of the house in gym clothes (or daring to contemplate a social role outside that of homemaker) is "morally wrong".

Since you're quoting Biblical scripture I'd point out that working on a Saturday is also against those very same "laws". (And yes it's Saturday if you're following the OT.)

BTW, I hope you're not actually sleeping with that wonderful new GF - as you know unmarried sex is forbidden according to the NT. In fact, divorce is ALSO forbidden per 2nd Paul. So, I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive all those "evil" cheaters. Since your divorce is against what's directly written in the NT, by a very reasonable interpretation of it you're not only still married, but in an adulterous relationship yourself.

Hey you got me on some of your points.  Yes divorce is forbidden, but there were circumstances that allowed it,,,a cheating person for instance.  Also, it's not as if I chose to get divorced.  It was something I was forced into.  It wasn't like I could have stopped it.  My girlfriend and I,,,,I have no defense against that one, but has been discussed.  I'm never going to marry again so yes, it's a sin.

The hard part is discerning the difference between sins.  If I stole a piece of gum and you murdered somebody, what is the bigger sin?  While murder seems like the obvious answer, my daughter says a sin is a sin.  I struggle not to measure sin.  Some are much worse than others.

[tzorno]

13 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

It sounds to me like she had a traumatic childhood / upbringing so chaos is something that makes her feel alive. Or like a “real woman” in this case. She’s crashing and burning unfortunately. All the terrible stuff she’s done again is just her best attempt to be happy and free from pain and suffering. She’s going about it all the wrong way of course, but it comes from a place of pain. 

Yes, and I try to take that into consideration.  I really do.  It's why I feel like a yo-yo half the time.  Sometimes I feel sorry for her and think she can't help herself.  More often I feel the anger and bitterness towards her unfortunately.  It's the evil and conniving way she did things that cause me to not forgive her.  It didn't have to be like this.

[Oldenuff2know]

I browsed your thread. I also divorced after 32 year and multiple affairs by my husband. I was the main breadwinner and was actually pregnant with our third child when he cheated with out neighbor, who was also my best friend. How did I find out? My (at the time) 5-year-old daughter caught them in the act one day and told me. I stayed for another 17 years. I have all the reasons in the world to hate him, but I don't, because I know that hate will rot me from the inside out, not him. He'll still live his life, oblivious to my pain, just like your ex-wife is doing to you. 

My husband ended up marrying a controlling, self-centered narcissist who isolated him from our daughters and he was not allowed to have any contact with me whatsoever. Now, my youngest is getting married in October and he is not walking her down the aisle. He hasn't spoken to them in two years. This was a man who coached their teams, danced with them in the Nutcracker, was very involved with their education and daily life, and yet, they are now estranged. It KILLS me. I did not want that for my daughters, and you shouldn't want it for yours, either.

I've also got every reason to be bitter and hateful because he gets half of MY hard-earned pension when I retire! That's a law where I live. If you collect a state pension, your ex gets half of the pension you earned when you were married. So now, I get to support, not only him, but that poor excuse of a narcissist he now calls his wife. What I am trying to say is - go ahead and hate her guts. Go ahead and hope your kids hate her guts. The only people suffering because of that are you and your children. It sounds to me like she's already living her own hell, so that should be pleasure enough for you. I also am a firm believer of not bashing your ex to your kids. That says nothing about her, but everything about you. Let them make up their own mind about her. Instead of being happy they are estranged, hope that some day she will come around and be there for her kids and grandkids. After all, that's the "godly" way to be, right?

By the way, he and I both work in a very specialized field. There are only so many places we can work and we work at the same place. I see him a few times a month. We're pleasant to one another and I know it absolutely grinds her nerves that he has to have any contact with me. That in itself gives me a little pleasure!

[tzorno]

27 minutes ago, Oldenuff2know said:

I browsed your thread. I also divorced after 32 year and multiple affairs by my husband. I was the main breadwinner and was actually pregnant with our third child when he cheated with out neighbor, who was also my best friend. How did I find out? My (at the time) 5-year-old daughter caught them in the act one day and told me. I stayed for another 17 years. I have all the reasons in the world to hate him, but I don't, because I know that hate will rot me from the inside out, not him. He'll still live his life, oblivious to my pain, just like your ex-wife is doing to you. 

My husband ended up marrying a controlling, self-centered narcissist who isolated him from our daughters and he was not allowed to have any contact with me whatsoever. Now, my youngest is getting married in October and he is not walking her down the aisle. He hasn't spoken to them in two years. This was a man who coached their teams, danced with them in the Nutcracker, was very involved with their education and daily life, and yet, they are now estranged. It KILLS me. I did not want that for my daughters, and you shouldn't want it for yours, either.

I've also got every reason to be bitter and hateful because he gets half of MY hard-earned pension when I retire! That's a law where I live. If you collect a state pension, your ex gets half of the pension you earned when you were married. So now, I get to support, not only him, but that poor excuse of a narcissist he now calls his wife. What I am trying to say is - go ahead and hate her guts. Go ahead and hope your kids hate her guts. The only people suffering because of that are you and your children. It sounds to me like she's already living her own hell, so that should be pleasure enough for you. I also am a firm believer of not bashing your ex to your kids. That says nothing about her, but everything about you. Let them make up their own mind about her. Instead of being happy they are estranged, hope that some day she will come around and be there for her kids and grandkids. After all, that's the "godly" way to be, right?

By the way, he and I both work in a very specialized field. There are only so many places we can work and we work at the same place. I see him a few times a month. We're pleasant to one another and I know it absolutely grinds her nerves that he has to have any contact with me. That in itself gives me a little pleasure!

I'm so sorry you had to go through that.  You have handled everything better than I ever could.  I'm a weak person.
 

It is a shame when the kids are estranged, but in my case, she caused that herself.  What king of person, yet a mother, tells her kids she doesn't care about them and then doubles down and has nothing to do with them?  I realize they are adults, but they are just now finding their way and getting established. 

Yes, you should never talk bad about the other parent.  I fail at that miserably.  She is known as the town whore in our house.  My daughter calls her by her first name even to her face.  I need to be a better person.  This is all partially due to the lies about me she has told and continues to tell though.  I know, it shouldn't matter.

Her living her life oblivious to my pain is hard to take yet you dare not let on and show weakness.  Urgh.  When she was doing her deeds, she always tried to make me out as the villain.  I told her to quit acting like the victim and to imagine if I were the one doing to her what she was doing to me.  That at least hit home with her.

Thank you for your story and again, i'm sorry you went through that.  May I ask you a couple of questions?  You don't have to answer of course.  
- How long did it take you to get over the anger?  

- At what point did your kids quit speaking to him?  Did he do something other than the obvious to cause it?

- When you see him at work, how do you keep civil and not get triggered especially when you know half of your hard work is for him?

[mark clemson]

1 hour ago, tzorno said:

The hard part is discerning the difference between sins.

If you believe the OT, they did indeed at least sometimes kill people for working on a Sabbath day.

Whoever said "judge not, lest ye be judged" may have been on to something...

Edited April 18 by mark clemson

[tzorno]

2 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

Whoever said "judge not, lest ye be judged" may have been on to something...

He's usually not wrong.

[Els]

3 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

If you believe the OT, they did indeed at least sometimes kill people for working on a Sabbath day.

Heck, people who had premarital sex were most definitely to be stoned to death, as well...

[mark clemson]

👆

[tzorno]

15 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

Whoever said "judge not, lest ye be judged" may have been on to something...

Jesus also said immorality and adultery are reasons to divorce, so even he acknowledges the seriousness of that sin.

[mark clemson]

Actually yes that's true per Matthew 19. Still leaves you with the premarital sex though. No doubt considered a form of "sexual immorality". Tsk.

Edited April 18 by mark clemson

[tzorno]

51 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

Actually yes that's true per Matthew 19. Still leaves you with the premarital sex though. No doubt considered a form of "sexual immorality". Tsk.

Yes, God views it as a sin although it is mostly spoken about virgins and not already divorced people, but yes, its a sin.  Not sure if its as bad as adultery, but I guess we'll find out soon enough.