Can't Get Over the Hatred

[basil67]

8 hours ago, tzorno said:

Times sure have changed.

Indeed they have.  Now people can leave instead of being stuck in a s*** marriage.   I know of many couples of my parents age who are still married but don't really like each other.  And there were always the kids who'd say to friends "I reckon my parents are just staying together until we've left school"  The fact that a couple doesn't divorce doesn't necessarily reflect that their marriage is good or healthy

Meanwhile, you say that all the time away from your family was worth it.  But is childcare really so bad that a family ends up with an absent husband and father?  Frankly, your choice of doing this sounds awful for both wife and children.   

 

Edited April 18 by basil67

[Will am I]

Is this topic supposed to be about learning to cope with the emotional damage caused by an unfaithful spouse and subsequent divorce?

Or is is about the religious views on the matter? 

 

They may be very different things. Let’s assume the statement “Bible says what she did is horrible”. Does the knowledge that she was wrong and you weren’t help you find peace and healing? Or does it only fuel the anger?

If you want to dig deeper into the christian perspectives (and actually find some nuance), you could consider the book “Biblival divorce and remarriage” by Joseph John Bowman. 

[basil67]

@tzorno you originally wrote this post because you were trying to find a way to get over your hatred.  However, it's become apparent that not only are you struggling to get over it, you are actively cultivating it.   And it's also very clear that not only are you not listening to the good people here who are taking the time to try and help you, you are actively arguing against the help given, you have been directly rude to some and are taking potshots at women in general.  Is this really the man you want to be?

The upshot is that if you want to stop feeling this way, you need to start by actively making a choice to leave it behind.  I realise that your church seniors have already told you this, but it seems clear that they haven't told you how to do it.  Or if they have told you, then their advice isn't working and you need help from other quarters.   

My advice: You need to choose to avoid RedPill and misogynist websites which only serve to further stir you up.  You make a choice to redirect your thoughts when they turn dark.   Make a choice to stop arguing with those who try to help you.   Of course, these changes won't be easy, but until you make a start, they won't happen at all.   If you can't do this on your own, seek out a Cognitive Behaviour Therapist who will help you learn to redirect your thoughts.  

Thing is, when we stop cultivating the anger and hate, the feelings will start to fade.  Will you ever be OK with what happened?  Probably not, but there is a place of relative indifference - but you can't get there while you're working against your own recovery.

 

Edited April 18 by basil67

[tzorno]

3 hours ago, basil67 said:

Indeed they have.  Now people can leave instead of being stuck in a s*** marriage.   I know of many couples of my parents age who are still married but don't really like each other.  And there were always the kids who'd say to friends "I reckon my parents are just staying together until we've left school"  The fact that a couple doesn't divorce doesn't necessarily reflect that their marriage is good or healthy

Meanwhile, you say that all the time away from your family was worth it.  But is childcare really so bad that a family ends up with an absent husband and father?  Frankly, your choice of doing this sounds awful for both wife and children.   

 

Marriages go through ups and downs.  Bumps in the road.  Sometimes I feel its so easy to divorce now that marriages aren't given a fair chance.  Very few fight for their marriages anymore.  I've seen some try and fail and i've seen some come out on top loving each other more everyday.  I do get your point though.

I really don't know.  It seemed like the right thing at the time as we both agreed upon it.  Maybe it was a horrible plan.  I dont know.

[tzorno]

3 hours ago, Will am I said:

Is this topic supposed to be about learning to cope with the emotional damage caused by an unfaithful spouse and subsequent divorce?

Or is is about the religious views on the matter? 

 

They may be very different things. Let’s assume the statement “Bible says what she did is horrible”. Does the knowledge that she was wrong and you weren’t help you find peace and healing? Or does it only fuel the anger?

If you want to dig deeper into the christian perspectives (and actually find some nuance), you could consider the book “Biblival divorce and remarriage” by Joseph John Bowman. 

I'm sorry it got derailed.  That is on me.  No more of that.

[tzorno]

2 hours ago, basil67 said:

@tzorno you originally wrote this post because you were trying to find a way to get over your hatred.  However, it's become apparent that not only are you struggling to get over it, you are actively cultivating it.   And it's also very clear that not only are you not listening to the good people here who are taking the time to try and help you, you are actively arguing against the help given, you have been directly rude to some and are taking potshots at women in general.  Is this really the man you want to be?

The upshot is that if you want to stop feeling this way, you need to start by actively making a choice to leave it behind.  I realise that your church seniors have already told you this, but it seems clear that they haven't told you how to do it.  Or if they have told you, then their advice isn't working and you need help from other quarters.   

My advice: You need to choose to avoid RedPill and misogynist websites which only serve to further stir you up.  You make a choice to redirect your thoughts when they turn dark.   Make a choice to stop arguing with those who try to help you.   Of course, these changes won't be easy, but until you make a start, they won't happen at all.   If you can't do this on your own, seek out a Cognitive Behaviour Therapist who will help you learn to redirect your thoughts.  

Thing is, when we stop cultivating the anger and hate, the feelings will start to fade.  Will you ever be OK with what happened?  Probably not, but there is a place of relative indifference - but you can't get there while you're working against your own recovery.

 

You are so right and I apologize to all of you.  I'm a mental mess.  I ask for help and get triggered along the way and push people away.  It takes me a minute to realize that, but I do realize it.  I asked for an answer that may not exist.  Everybody is different.  I also may currently lean towards the redpill zone, but honestly I realize there are just as many good women and men as there are bad ones.  I just lash out sometimes and thats unfair to everybody.  I know everybody is here to help.

Thank you for being civil with me even though I don't deserve it.  Also, thank you for the thoughtful advice.  As you can tell, its a constant struggle.

[Gebidozo]

6 hours ago, tzorno said:

Jesus also said immorality and adultery are reasons to divorce, so even he acknowledges the seriousness of that sin.

This back-and-forth Biblical exegesis can go on for ages. You’re missing the point. It’s not about whose sin is worse, it’s about Jesus telling us not to judge others and focus on removing beams from our own eyes.

[basil67]

3 hours ago, tzorno said:

I asked for an answer that may not exist. 

If this is truly what you believe, then you will indeed be stuck with hatred forever.  It's easier to be a victim than to do the hard intellectual work of strengthening your mind and self control.

[Will am I]

@tzornoI think it's good to realize first and foremost that staying angry or even hateful with someone hurts you more than it hurts them.

So even if you are looking to get even, your best revenge is to lead a happy life without your ex.

 

Now there is nobody who can change the way you feel. Controlling someone else's feelings is impossible. Let alone when we are mere strangers on the internet.

What we can do is to provide a range of different perspectives on your situation. And if you openop to these perspectives, they might start to tilt your thinking and gradually open up some space for a less angry stance.

 

One perspective I would like to share is a sociological view on divorce.

Here's a link on US divorce rates over time:

https://www.lovetoknow.com/life/relationships/historical-divorce-rate-statistics

Essentially divorce was rare until 1970 and then the numbers shot up, and the peak in the 1970s and 1980s it started a slow decline. In my European country the statistics look similar.

So what's behind those numbers? The big word is "options". People didn't have many options outside marriage until 1970. Imagine the society back then: everyone got married young, nearly everyone stayed married, divorced people were rarities and hence faced a lot of judgement. Remarriage options were limited because there wasn't a big pool of potential partners out there. And even leisure time was nasty, everything was family oriented and there weren't a lot of places to go and things to do as a divorced person.

What changed in the first feminist wave of the 1960s and 1970s is that women got more options. More women were staying in the workplace after their wedding and the social stigma of divorce started to lessen a bit. Also the laws changed, the no fault divorce became available to many residents somewhere in the early 1970s. But the biggest correlator is female labour participation.

Which raises the following question: prior to the first feminist revolution, were people staying married because that's what they wanted? Or were people staying in miserable marriages because that was all they could do? Is there anything to gain from making divorce harder?

 

When you write that these days it may be too easy to get divorced, may I challenge that? I don't think there's anything easy or desireable about divorce. Both parties get hurt emotionally, spiritially, financially and in their family relations and friendships. It's not easy for any party. Maybe women tend to be better equiped to handle these drastic life changes, but that does not imply it's easy on them either. (side note: deep, meaningful same-sex friendships are key. guys, we can learn from the women on this aspect of resilience)

I often read complaints about men facing huge financial losses in legal fees, asset division and alimony payments. These are very real things. But at the same time the statistics show that in the long run men bounce back to their previous level of wealth and women don't. Probably the career gap, part time work and bigger share of care tasks hurt women's careers more that spousal support payments compensate. Plus spousal support is not infinite.

 

I have half a dozen other things I could write about. 

 

If you are serious about learning to cope post divorce, check out a podcast called Rising Phoenix by Michael Rhodes. It's at episode 143 now, so there's plenty of listening to do. 

Some episodes are interviews with a featured guest. I thing episode 95 on infidelity might be an eye opener for you.

 

 

Edited April 19 by Will am I

[tzorno]

Weird basket of emotions yesterday and today.  The ex texted my future daughter-in-law yesterday no doubt because the wedding is tomorrow.  She said something on the lines of "have a beautiful wedding and I love you both" etc,,,surely because she's in panic mode not being invited.  My daughter-in-law didn't reply and blocked her.  Before going forward, my son and this girl were just dating when one night my ex and I came home from somewhere when the drunken ex reached over and whispered into her ear with a crap eating grin that she was going to divorce me.  My daughter-in-law was mortified.  Who does such a thing?  

Anyways, I feel bad for my ex.  Furthermore, I was talking with my buddy last night and I realized how much better I would feel if I forgave her.  Life would be so much easier and the commencement of truly moving on would finally begin.  Why can't I bring myself to do it?  I must be the dumbest human being on the planet.  I'm self sabotaging myself and I know i'm doing it.  There is something stubbornly not allowing myself to let go and I know i'll never truly heal until I do.  It's as if I have to get a last parting shot in or something before I can go through with it.  So stupid.  I prayed a good bit about it last night (not getting religious here) and am hoping for solace to relent.  I'm still feeling sorry for the ex and I wonder just how long it'll last.  Deep down I want to forgive her but fear i'll regret that decision later.

[Lotsgoingon]

I speak as someone who married a woman who proved to be devastatingly destructive. 

You can't forgive because you haven't done the full work here. The full work is to review how it is that you ALLOWED yourself to believe in someone who wasn't worthy of trust and commitment.  Review why you put up with her nonsense and immaturity and meanness for so long. And the answer is not "I loved her." I know people who love their kids dearly and who keep distance when the kid is a stealing drug addict. Women (and men) who are beaten and battered often love their partners, hugely so. AND these people realize that they need to get away from the violent partner.

You would do well to investigate--and change!!!!---your understanding of love. You seem to think "love" means you tolerate abusive behavior and stay with someone no matter what. No, that's not a healthy definition of love. 

I have a suggestion. I'm going to bet that your children saw your wife as hugely destructive far earlier than you did and that they wanted her out of their life and feel far better with her out of their lives than they did with her in their lives. And I would bet that they somewhere deep inside (even now) have tender feelings for her. They have feelings for her AND they realize they need to keep distance because she is wildly destructive. And here's the hard part. I also would bet your children (and certainly your friends) don't understand why you stayed with her so long and why you failed to get her out of your life so that they would be protected from her destruction. 

Kids are deeply forgiving. So if you start this conversation, they may be somewhat critical of you and yet they still wildly love you. You don't have to assume they will hate you. I would bet for sure that your kids saw your ex as an unfixed problem far earlier than you did. 

Dude, if you get to why you stayed with her and lose that self-destructive idea that it was your job and duty to put up with her b.s. you will be so liberated. You will be able to date and quickly screen out people like your ex. You will also likely discover that you grew up in a family where you absorbed some of the view that love means we tolerate pain and bad behavior. I grew up in a family with multiple family members with mental illness. I got used to being around mentally ill people and seeing a lot of their behavior as normal. No wonder I tolerated misery in relationships for so long.

I'm guessing you have some kind of background that led you to tolerate his woman for so long (or to gravitate to her in the first place) when it was clear that she did NOT have the strength or integrity or kindness or values that you had. You also married early, if I remember correctly. Lots of people's real sides only emerge fully in their late 20's and 30's and beyond. 

 

Edited April 19 by Lotsgoingon

[tzorno]

56 minutes ago, Lotsgoingon said:

I speak as someone who married a woman who proved to be devastatingly destructive. 

You can't forgive because you haven't done the full work here. The full work is to review how it is that you ALLOWED yourself to believe in someone who wasn't worthy of trust and commitment.  Review why you put up with her nonsense and immaturity and meanness for so long. And the answer is not "I loved her." I know people who love their kids dearly and who keep distance when the kid is a stealing drug addict. Women (and men) who are beaten and battered often love their partners, hugely so. AND these people realize that they need to get away from the violent partner.

You would do well to investigate--and change!!!!---your understanding of love. You seem to think "love" means you tolerate abusive behavior and stay with someone no matter what. No, that's not a healthy definition of love. 

I have a suggestion. I'm going to bet that your children saw your wife as hugely destructive far earlier than you did and that they wanted her out of their life and feel far better with her out of their lives than they did with her in their lives. And I would bet that they somewhere deep inside (even now) have tender feelings for her. They have feelings for her AND they realize they need to keep distance because she is wildly destructive. And here's the hard part. I also would bet your children (and certainly your friends) don't understand why you stayed with her so long and why you failed to get her out of your life so that they would be protected from her destruction. 

Kids are deeply forgiving. So if you start this conversation, they may be somewhat critical of you and yet they still wildly love you. You don't have to assume they will hate you. I would bet for sure that your kids saw your ex as an unfixed problem far earlier than you did. 

Dude, if you get to why you stayed with her and lose that self-destructive idea that it was your job and duty to put up with her b.s. you will be so liberated. You will be able to date and quickly screen out people like your ex. You will also likely discover that you grew up in a family where you absorbed some of the view that love means we tolerate pain and bad behavior. I grew up in a family with multiple family members with mental illness. I got used to being around mentally ill people and seeing a lot of their behavior as normal. No wonder I tolerated misery in relationships for so long.

I'm guessing you have some kind of background that led you to tolerate his woman for so long (or to gravitate to her in the first place) when it was clear that she did NOT have the strength or integrity or kindness or values that you had. You also married early, if I remember correctly. Lots of people's real sides only emerge fully in their late 20's and 30's and beyond. 

 

Others have mentioned why I was tolerant and put up with it.  Honestly, I don't know.  What I mean is I guess I was blind to it and couldn't see it.  Looking back now, others saw it.  My own father once told me that if I ever married her, there would come a day I would regret it.  He was right.  My mother would ask periodically if I honestly loved that woman.  She saw it.  My kids do beat on me and ask how I wasn't aware.  Lord, I was so dumb.  I knew she was always (please forgive my language) a b****, but I thought that was just on the exterior and that deep down, she had a good heart.  She was a Godly woman for so long, but maybe that was fake.  I don't know.  I do know she did a 180.  Something happened to her.  She told my daughter she doesn't talk to God anymore because she knows he's going to persecute her.  She now is all about psychics and healing stones (wacko).  Even to this day she puts on a good mask and act.  Heck my lawyer was even fooled until I told him not to be.  It's all so strange.  The truth is slowly revealing itself and a lot of it is my own fault for allowing it to happen.

[Lotsgoingon]

You sure she doesn't have some mental illness that emerged? ... like bipolar condition? 

Some people have a condition that is mild for a while and then it breaks out fully.

 

[tzorno]

12 minutes ago, Lotsgoingon said:

You sure she doesn't have some mental illness that emerged? ... like bipolar condition? 

Some people have a condition that is mild for a while and then it breaks out fully.

 

I believe (know) she has something wrong with her but she wasn't clinically diagnosed.  Her father was nuts so the math isn't to hard to figure out.  

[Weezy1973]

2 hours ago, tzorno said:

  She was a Godly woman for so long, but maybe that was fake. 

She likely has some (or a lot) of pain and childhood trauma. Not that it’s an excuse to behave badly as an adult. But it’s often a reason people behave badly. 
 

I suspect you gave her a pass because she was Christian. You made assumptions about her character or that she would do good because she was Christian. And you see it’s not the case. I believe the divorce rate amongst Christians is actually slightly higher than the general divorce rate and that might seem surprising because of the value Christianity places on marriage and family. I think there are many Christian marriages that seem healthy and happy on the outside but actually aren’t.
 

And the no sex until marriage thing probably ruins a great deal of marriages as well. That is people marry young and before they know themselves or their partner because their hormones are running the show. So they get stuck with someone that now isn’t a good partner or compatible and feel very stuck because there is so much stigma around divorce in that community. 

[mark clemson]

While I'm definitely a firm believer in God, I've never placed overmuch value on what's in the Bible. Getting the natural history of the earth wrong, the "story of Christmas" that's clearly made up, Noah's ark that' clearly just early Jewish mythology, the physical impossibility of stars falling to earth, it's ok to be a slave because Christians as a group will (of course) be such extremely nice people as slave owners (not that SOME Christians weren't), etc, etc.

The well is there clearly as it DOES bring so many people to God, but super muddied IMO. It was created by committees from the religious writings available in ancient times. Lots of non-factual stuff and things that don't necessarily work well in practice portrayed as "Truth with a capital T". I think it confuses a lot of people quite honestly and they sometimes end up claiming the earth is flat, COVID isn't real, etc, etc.

It's certainly no shock to me when relationships/marriages built on these creeds and practices fail at the same rate others do. People are people - there's a lot of variation and some couples simply aren't going to work out LT( unless forced to by economics or social convention in which case they are often quite miserable).

[Acacia98]

On 4/17/2024 at 3:32 PM, tzorno said:

Admission time - I said the worst thing I think anybody could ever say to a person to my ex the day she was leaving.  I told her I hoped that I would die before her so I could have a front row seat when it was her turn to go before God.  I wanted to see God kick her down to Satan and I would pray that her suffering and torment would be legendary even in Hell.  The look on her face when I said that was unsettling.  She has even told people I said the most horrible thing anybody could ever say to her.  I regret that terribly now.  I'll have to answer for that one.

Why do you find it so easy to believe that her actions are forgivable but yours are not? I can't help wondering if, despite the fact that you seem to blame your wife for everything, deep, down inside, you blame yourself for what went wrong and are having a hard time forgiving yourself. 

Perhaps you should ask all the people in your life, including your kids (if they are adults), to stop unnecessarily bringing your wife up in conversation? It's hard enough that you have to live in the same town and make regular payments to her. You really don't need to know when she's buying a new car or going on vacation. And you certainly don't need to be having conversations about her redemption. You should be focusing on your own healing instead.

You don't have the option of moving to a new town and starting afresh. So be kind to yourself and set boundaries: decide that you don't want to talk about or hear mention of your ex unless it is absolutely necessary and ask the people around you to please respect that and help you maintain it. You know, you got so used to neglecting your emotional needs, especially in your marriage, that it became a normal part of your existence. So now you have to make the extra effort to care for yourself.  And you should teach the people around you how to care for you too. Resist the urge to maintain your ex's place in the centre of your thoughts and life (which is where things currently are, as I see them). 

Consider going to therapy if it's accessible and affordable. You may also want to keep a journal into which you can pour all your thoughts and in which you can express your anger, frustration, despair (offline or even here). You are certainly also encouraged to come here and talk about whatever whenever if you find it helps.

[basil67]

9 hours ago, tzorno said:

She now is all about psychics and healing stones (wacko)   

Dude, really? 

What's with the disrespect of spiritual beliefs which are different to your own?   Further, I understand that her father has problems with his mental health, but what's with repeatedly calling him "nuts"?   And there was that thing about menopausal women "losing their minds" and the broad berating of women leaving marriages

Given the disrespectful language you use towards so many others, I'm not entirely confident that you're 100% the victim here.

 

 

[Gebidozo]

9 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

And the no sex until marriage thing probably ruins a great deal of marriages as well. That is people marry young and before they know themselves or their partner because their hormones are running the show. So they get stuck with someone that now isn’t a good partner or compatible and feel very stuck because there is so much stigma around divorce in that community. 

Catholic Christian here, but have to agree wholeheartedly. The “no sex before marriage” rule used to be an ethical measure needed to protect young girls from unwanted pregnancy and being subjected to the unjust stigmas of a patriarchal society. It was implemented in a world where people had to marry young to have a chance of producing enough children so that some of them might survive.

While I still believe that God’s ideal vision for us is lifetime monogamy, forcing this ideal on people who are clearly not ready for it (which would include most young people, really) has become a dubious practice. Having full freedom to make our own choices is the only way to ensure that the right choices will be voluntary. 

Or, in other words, you have to let people make their own mistakes and grow at their own pace, without being coerced into something they can’t truly understand and embrace yet.

[tzorno]

8 hours ago, basil67 said:

Dude, really? 

What's with the disrespect of spiritual beliefs which are different to your own?   Further, I understand that her father has problems with his mental health, but what's with repeatedly calling him "nuts"?   And there was that thing about menopausal women "losing their minds" and the broad berating of women leaving marriages

Given the disrespectful language you use towards so many others, I'm not entirely confident that you're 100% the victim here.

 

 

Why are you so easily offended about everything?  Seriously, do people walk on eggshells around you fearing they might say something that triggers you?   You are wrapped up way too tight.  
 

Everybody knows psychics are snake oil, scam artists.  The only reason people entertain them is for the laughs.  Healing stones?   I have a whole driveway full of them if anybody needs some.  
 

You already perceive me as the villain so you are more than welcome to bow out of this thread at any time.  

[basil67]

14 hours ago, tzorno said:

Why are you so easily offended about everything?  Seriously, do people walk on eggshells around you fearing they might say something that triggers you?   You are wrapped up way too tight.  
 

Everybody knows psychics are snake oil, scam artists.  The only reason people entertain them is for the laughs.  Healing stones?   I have a whole driveway full of them if anybody needs some.  
 

You already perceive me as the villain so you are more than welcome to bow out of this thread at any time.  

You haven't offended me....I'm actually quite bulletproof.  But I do care for others, and will speak up when I hear them being denigrated.

For what it's worth, I have no religious beliefs and my children were also raised without a god.  But I taught them that it's OK to respectfully defend their own personal beliefs from attack.  And that they are never to dismiss another person's belief system.  It's about respect for others.   

I do however believe that a guy called Jesus did once walk the earth. He said he was the son of God and was a very caring soul. Do you think Jesus would have used the same denigrating language towards others that you do? Because I'm pretty sure that he would shown respect and compassion. 

Take a minute to recognise that not everyone here is Christian and while they may not understand your belief system, nobody has called you names for letting your faith guide you even though it doesn't make sense to them.  As for the people around me in real life, they are much like the regular posters here: they understand the concept of respecting those who are different in terms of personal beliefs, mental health etc.  

I still maintain that your tendency to use of disrespectful words has likely played a part in your troubles.  I don't see you as a villain, but I can't see how a person can be unkind or dismissive tendencies without having personal repercussions.

Edited April 20 by basil67

[tzorno]

On 4/20/2024 at 7:33 PM, basil67 said:

You haven't offended me....I'm actually quite bulletproof.  But I do care for others, and will speak up when I hear them being denigrated.

For what it's worth, I have no religious beliefs and my children were also raised without a god.  But I taught them that it's OK to respectfully defend their own personal beliefs from attack.  And that they are never to dismiss another person's belief system.  It's about respect for others.   

I do however believe that a guy called Jesus did once walk the earth. He said he was the son of God and was a very caring soul. Do you think Jesus would have used the same denigrating language towards others that you do? Because I'm pretty sure that he would shown respect and compassion. 

Take a minute to recognise that not everyone here is Christian and while they may not understand your belief system, nobody has called you names for letting your faith guide you even though it doesn't make sense to them.  As for the people around me in real life, they are much like the regular posters here: they understand the concept of respecting those who are different in terms of personal beliefs, mental health etc.  

I still maintain that your tendency to use of disrespectful words has likely played a part in your troubles.  I don't see you as a villain, but I can't see how a person can be unkind or dismissive tendencies without having personal repercussions.

It has nothing to do with being a christian or religious so i'm not sure why you brought that up in the first place.  Its more about common sense.  Psychics are scam artists for suckers.  Everybody knows that.  And if you want to bring up Jesus and so forth, the bible explains pretty clearly about staying away from psychics (mediums).  

I'm sorry my 'disrespectful words' bother you and aren't politically correct enough for you, but you don't need to be everybody's superhero protector.  Nobody has asked you to be. 

[Acacia98]

6 hours ago, tzorno said:

It has nothing to do with being a christian or religious so i'm not sure why you brought that up in the first place.  Its more about common sense.  Psychics are scam artists for suckers.  Everybody knows that.  And if you want to bring up Jesus and so forth, the bible explains pretty clearly about staying away from psychics (mediums).  

I'm sorry my 'disrespectful words' bother you and aren't politically correct enough for you, but you don't need to be everybody's superhero protector.  Nobody has asked you to be. 

To be honest, she's not the only one who noticed it and found it jarring. I did too. But I typically don't comment about such things because I don't want to deal with confrontation. You're better off having folks like her on your side because they'll let you know what other people are thinking but won't say.

There's another reason why what she's saying is important. When you default to labels or stereotypes, you typically miss the opportunity to analyze things/people in greater detail. And, in that way, you could easily miss signs/warnings/red flags/the opportunity to get more clarifying information that would help you.

I actually think one of the reasons you're struggling so much is because you're content to stay on the surface when you should dig deeper. Case in point: her father's mental illness. I think you need to find out more about his illness, the symptoms, a likely diagnosis. Try to determine whether it is hereditary and your ex might also have it. Alternatively, are her issues the result of being raised by a mentally ill parent? I can imagine a child being neglected or exposed to chaos and substance abuse (by a self-medicating parent) under such circumstances.

Edited April 22 by Acacia98

[tzorno]

2 minutes ago, Acacia98 said:

To be honest, she's not the only one who noticed it and found it jarring. I did too. But I typically don't comment about such things because I don't want to deal with confrontation. You're better off having folks like her on your side because they'll let you know what other people are thinking but won't say.

There's another reason why what she's saying is important. When you default to labels or stereotypes, you typically miss the opportunity to analyze things/people in greater detail. And, in that way, you could easily miss signs/warnings/red flags/the opportunity to get more clarifying information that would help you.

I actually think one of the reasons you're struggling so much is because you're content to stay on the surface when you should dig deeper. Case in point: her father's mental illness. I think you need to find out more about his illness, the symptoms, a likely diagnosis. Try to determine whether it is hereditary and she might also have it. 

I apologize for my use of slang for general themes.  I understand that its off putting to some.  I'll try to do better.

It's obvious the ex obtained some of her fathers traits, but it would be impossible to know exactly what it was now.  He has passed and her mother is in a home with dementia.  Nobody speaks to anybody on the fathers side and nobody was interested enough to know anyways.  As for me knowing, i'm cut off from the loop obviously and its of no real importance.  It doesn't matter now.  The only thing that was evident is that there was definite mental issues and its assuredly from her father.

This is why I feel sorry for her half the time.  I honestly believe she can't help herself.  She just missed out on her son's wedding day and I wonder if she even understands why?  She's mentally unwell and on top of that, she's drunk everynight.  Not a good combination.  

[basil67]

12 hours ago, tzorno said:

It has nothing to do with being a christian or religious so i'm not sure why you brought that up in the first place.  Its more about common sense.  Psychics are scam artists for suckers.  Everybody knows that.  And if you want to bring up Jesus and so forth, the bible explains pretty clearly about staying away from psychics (mediums).  
 

I brought up your religious beliefs because there are members of LS (myself included) who have been participating on your thread who do not share your religious beliefs.  They have quietly bowed out when it comes to you discussing your beliefs. As a result, you've been comfortably exploring how those beliefs intersect with the relationship problems without anybody describing you in awful terms for believing them, or in dismissing your beliefs altogether.   I daresay that you're not even aware that this is happening in the background. 

Just as you call those who follow alternative spiritual systems "wacko", another could start being rude about you following the words of "a sky fairy".  But how does being rude about each others belief systems do good in the world?

For what it's worth, I've got friends who live with mental illness, or who have close family who are affected.  I have friends and acquaintances who have a broad spectrum of spiritual and religious beliefs.  I've had women friends who've had a terrible time with menopause.  And before you use horrible words to describe those who live with disability, or those who are LGBT+  these people are also part of my life and I have their back.   

Edited April 23 by basil67