Can't Get Over the Hatred

[Gebidozo]

13 hours ago, tzorno said:

I'm sorry my 'disrespectful words' bother you and aren't politically correct enough for you, but you don't need to be everybody's superhero protector.  Nobody has asked you to be. 

Sorry man, but I’m bothered by your attitude towards those things too, and I’m a Christian just like you.

13 hours ago, tzorno said:

It has nothing to do with being a christian or religious so i'm not sure why you brought that up in the first place.

Because everyone here, regardless of their religious convictions, have shown respect to yours, while you haven’t done the same for your wife.

 

13 hours ago, tzorno said:

Psychics are scam artists for suckers.  Everybody knows that. 

There is no such thing in this universe that everybody knows.

Some militant atheists would tell you that everybody knows there is no God. A lot of people think Christians are scam artists. A Protestant hardliner once told me, a Catholic, that everybody knows the Catholic Church isn’t a true Christian church, but a façade for the upcoming Antichrist. You won’t get anywhere with this type of “argument”.

14 hours ago, tzorno said:

And if you want to bring up Jesus and so forth, the bible explains pretty clearly about staying away from psychics (mediums).  

The Bible also explains pretty clearly that if you work on a Sabbath you should be put to death.

We’ve been there already. Biblical exegesis is not a valid tool in this discussion.

[Will am I]

13 hours ago, tzorno said:

This is why I feel sorry for her half the time.  I honestly believe she can't help herself.  She just missed out on her son's wedding day and I wonder if she even understands why?  She's mentally unwell and on top of that, she's drunk everynight.  Not a good combination.  

You are broken up and divorced, it’s time to gently let go of your concerns over her mental health.

Keep strict boundaries. Seek a civic relationship around the unwinding of shared assets and liabilities, support payments, and if applicable coparenting. Seek nothing more than that.

[Els]

22 hours ago, tzorno said:

It has nothing to do with being a christian or religious so i'm not sure why you brought that up in the first place.  Its more about common sense.  Psychics are scam artists for suckers.  Everybody knows that.  And if you want to bring up Jesus and so forth, the bible explains pretty clearly about staying away from psychics (mediums).  

I'm sorry my 'disrespectful words' bother you and aren't politically correct enough for you, but you don't need to be everybody's superhero protector.  Nobody has asked you to be. 

I think you've now succeeded in alienating the few people on this forum who were nice enough and cared enough about you to still try and help you despite all your misogynistic comments, rudeness, and frankly appalling behaviour. Congratulations! (I'm not one of them, I was done with you a while ago.)

It's very clear to everyone here that your thread title is misleading. It's not "can't get over the hatred", it's "don't want to get over the hatred". Care to be honest about why you posted? Were you just trying to get people to validate you and to drag your ex-wife through the mud?

Personally, I don't condone cheating but I think your ex-wife dodged a bullet.

 

[tzorno]

12 hours ago, basil67 said:

I brought up your religious beliefs because there are members of LS (myself included) who have been participating on your thread who do not share your religious beliefs.  They have quietly bowed out when it comes to you discussing your beliefs. As a result, you've been comfortably exploring how those beliefs intersect with the relationship problems without anybody describing you in awful terms for believing them, or in dismissing your beliefs altogether.   I daresay that you're not even aware that this is happening in the background. 

Just as you call those who follow alternative spiritual systems "wacko", another could start being rude about you following the words of "a sky fairy".  But how does being rude about each others belief systems do good in the world?

For what it's worth, I've got friends who live with mental illness, or who have close family who are affected.  I have friends and acquaintances who have a broad spectrum of spiritual and religious beliefs.  I've had women friends who've had a terrible time with menopause.  And before you use horrible words to describe those who live with disability, or those who are LGBT+  these people are also part of my life and I have their back.   

You are right, I had no idea it was happening.  I know there are people who aren't religious and I wasn't trying to push my beliefs on them that I was aware of.  It's just my beliefs.  I don't expect people to get on board with them.  To each their own.  As for psychics, I thought it was a given that nobody took them seriously.  Do people actually believe in them?

Why did you bring up LGBT+ and disabilities.  I have no issue with the LGBT community.  I know and have plenty of friends in that community.  And nobody is making fun of disabilities whether its mental or physical.  I realize they are legit and serious issues.

[tzorno]

11 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

Sorry man, but I’m bothered by your attitude towards those things too, and I’m a Christian just like you.

Because everyone here, regardless of their religious convictions, have shown respect to yours, while you haven’t done the same for your wife.

 

There is no such thing in this universe that everybody knows.

Some militant atheists would tell you that everybody knows there is no God. A lot of people think Christians are scam artists. A Protestant hardliner once told me, a Catholic, that everybody knows the Catholic Church isn’t a true Christian church, but a façade for the upcoming Antichrist. You won’t get anywhere with this type of “argument”.

The Bible also explains pretty clearly that if you work on a Sabbath you should be put to death.

We’ve been there already. Biblical exegesis is not a valid tool in this discussion.

Nothing to do with religion here, but do you believe in psychics?  Just curious. If not, what is your opinion of the people that do?  Some people believe the world is flat.  How do you feel about those people?  I'm not saying that you don't show respect towards them, but how do you really feel?

[tzorno]

6 hours ago, Will am I said:

You are broken up and divorced, it’s time to gently let go of your concerns over her mental health.

Keep strict boundaries. Seek a civic relationship around the unwinding of shared assets and liabilities, support payments, and if applicable coparenting. Seek nothing more than that.

Yes, its time to let it all go.  The past couple of weeks, something has happened to me.  I can feel it.  She is becoming irrelevant.  Slowly, but surely.  I feel sorry for her because holidays, birthdays, any event that her kids and granddaughter or future grandkids are involved in,,,,,,,,,that's all over for her.  My daughter says that her mother goes into a deep depression around those times because she realizes that.  She drinks through them though.  She drinks to numb the pain.  She told my daughter if she doesn't drink, she just sits at the house and cries.  I feel sorry for her because it didn't have to be this way, but her true character burned every bridge there was to burn.  I don't know why she had to be so evil in the end.  Maybe she felt she had to as a way of guaranteeing there was no coming back.  I don't know.

There is no being civil.  Actually there's no contact at all and hasn't been.  I haven't seen or talked to her since the court room for our divorce.  That's been over 2 years ago.  My son has no contact with her either and it's been just as long.  She's blocked from any communication.  The assets and payments are set in stone.  I just get bitter every month when i'm writing out checks to pay for her stuff while she has more money than I do.  There's no coparenting.  My kids are adults and she has dropped any responsibilities and accountability towards them.

 

Edited April 23 by tzorno
reword

[tzorno]

3 hours ago, Els said:

I think you've now succeeded in alienating the few people on this forum who were nice enough and cared enough about you to still try and help you despite all your misogynistic comments, rudeness, and frankly appalling behaviour. Congratulations! (I'm not one of them, I was done with you a while ago.)

It's very clear to everyone here that your thread title is misleading. It's not "can't get over the hatred", it's "don't want to get over the hatred". Care to be honest about why you posted? Were you just trying to get people to validate you and to drag your ex-wife through the mud?

Personally, I don't condone cheating but I think your ex-wife dodged a bullet.

 

Dodged a bullet?  Lol.  Wish you could meet her sometime.

I posted because I really did seek help and advice and it's therapeutical to talk about it.  I found out that I triggered myself by talking about it though.  I understand I offended people with my redpill stance and I apologize for that.  I didn't intend for it to be like that, but it's obvious what i've done.  I'm sorry.  I have a lot of work to do on myself.

[Will am I]

1 hour ago, tzorno said:

Yes, its time to let it all go.  The past couple of weeks, something has happened to me.  I can feel it.  She is becoming irrelevant.  Slowly, but surely.  I feel sorry for her because holidays, birthdays, any event that her kids and granddaughter or future grandkids are involved in,,,,,,,,,that's all over for her.  My daughter says that her mother goes into a deep depression around those times because she realizes that.  She drinks through them though.  She drinks to numb the pain.  She told my daughter if she doesn't drink, she just sits at the house and cries.  I feel sorry for her because it didn't have to be this way, but her true character burned every bridge there was to burn.  I don't know why she had to be so evil in the end.  Maybe she felt she had to as a way of guaranteeing there was no coming back.  I don't know.

There is no being civil.  Actually there's no contact at all and hasn't been.  I haven't seen or talked to her since the court room for our divorce.  That's been over 2 years ago.  My son has no contact with her either and it's been just as long.  She's blocked from any communication.  The assets and payments are set in stone.  I just get bitter every month when i'm writing out checks to pay for her stuff while she has more money than I do.  There's no coparenting.  My kids are adults and she has dropped any responsibilities and accountability towards them.

 

So your business with one another is pretty much over. 

Good to hear that your emotions are slowly following suit.

 

[Gebidozo]

4 hours ago, tzorno said:

Nothing to do with religion here, but do you believe in psychics?

I believe that there are people who possess inexplicable, seemingly supernatural abilities. That doesn’t mean that I believe that everyone who claims to be psychic is actually one. I’m mostly agnostic in those issues, because they are outside of my sphere of spiritual interests.

 

4 hours ago, tzorno said:

Some people believe the world is flat.  How do you feel about those people? 

That’s very different from believing in psychics. Beliefs in psychic abilities or other supernatural things can’t be proven or disproved. The round shape of the Earth, however, is a scientific fact. Whoever refuses to accept it is just being needlessly silly.

[tzorno]

22 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

I believe that there are people who possess inexplicable, seemingly supernatural abilities. That doesn’t mean that I believe that everyone who claims to be psychic is actually one. I’m mostly agnostic in those issues, because they are outside of my sphere of spiritual interests.

Fair.  I don't believe people possess supernatural abilities.  It's all good.

[Oldenuff2know]

On 4/18/2024 at 3:01 PM, tzorno said:

- How long did it take you to get over the anger?  

- At what point did your kids quit speaking to him?  Did he do something other than the obvious to cause it?

- When you see him at work, how do you keep civil and not get triggered especially when you know half of your hard work is for him?

- How long did it take you to get over the anger?  

I don't know if I'll truly ever be over the anger. Just this past week, I saw him at work. We were talking (I'll try to keep this short) - I said "Did you see our "navy buddy" is back on Facebook after a 2 year hiatus? He said "Since my FB account was shut down and that account was banned permanently, I had to create a new FB and now I'm not friends with a lot of the people from our past" (trust me...that's his controlling wife) I said "Your account was permanently banned? Someone must have reported you for something pretty serious to have that happen." He said "Yes, we believe it was one of the girls." (our daughters) I was furious, but kept my cool. I said "C'mon. You know better than that. They are not vindictive like that." He said "I hope not". I said "When did that happen? Because one of the reasons they've been upset with you is they think you blocked them on FB and that really hurt them. If your account disappeared because it was disabled, then maybe this has all been one big misunderstanding between the four of you?" I told him to think about that. We exchanged a few emails over the next few days with him stating maybe it's time for him to reach out to them and mend fences. Fast forward 24 hours, I get an email that says our daughters are evil and they didn't get that from him, so it must be my doing. He is never going to reach out to them and he does not want them to reach out to him. What? WHAT?? I am incensed. Furious! I KNOW that was his wife's influence. She doesn't intend to share him with his daughters. Somehow, he blames ME for their estrangement instead of blaming HIMSELF being influenced by HER. GRRRRR!

- At what point did your kids quit speaking to him?  Did he do something other than the obvious to cause it?

We've been apart for 11 years, now. In the beginning, things were okay. She was pleasant to them, but she hated me and any contact with me was forbidden. When the girls were there, they would both bad mouth me. My daughters did not like that. They also noticed he was a different person when she was around. They told him they wanted to see him alone, without her, because they wanted "their old dad" back. He would do that once (usually because they were fighting - probably about him seeing them), then the next time, she would be there because she would not allow him to see them alone. That lasted for about the first 8 years. Slowly, they went from seeing him multiple times a month and spending all the holidays with him (I always encouraged them to spend that time with him because I got to see them every day), to seeing him maybe once a month for awhile, then it eventually dwindled down to every few months, then 6 months, etc. He also spent the whole time criticizing everything about their lives, their jobs, their boyfriends, etc. He's always been a bit critical, but they could handle it. I think he was trying to fit all that criticism into those visits that became few and far between. Finally, the oldest and the youngest said they just didn't want the drama and toxicity in their lives any more and they refused to see him. My middle daughter was still seeing him (she's my sensitive one), but then he started criticizing them to her and she told him she didn't want to see him anymore and she needed to side with her sisters. Basically, he (to this day) will not admit that his wife is controlling and manipulative. All they wanted was to have a relationship with HIM, without her and he refused and made excuses for her. No matter how many times I tried to explain this to him, he just didn't get it. Nothing was his fault. It was all their fault. 

- When you see him at work, how do you keep civil and not get triggered especially when you know half of your hard work is for him?

This might be the hardest part, now. Sunday night, when I saw him, I tried to stay calm. I told him exactly what I thought of his wife, of his weakness not to be able to stand up to her for the sake of his daughters, and told him she's an opportunist. The moment he can no longer work, making his current salary and keep her in the style to which she has become accustomed, she'll drop him like a hot potato and go find someone to support her. He'll be alone because she has isolated him from all friends and most of his family and he'll live out his days in misery and loneliness.

Then, I made him an offer. I KNOW it absolutely drives her INSANE that he has to see me at work, so I told him "If you sign away your claim to my pension, I will quit this job right after (our youngest daughter's) wedding in October. Your wife will be thrilled. We can go on with our lives without ever setting eyes on one another again. He said no. He wants that pension. Then I told him, "Well, you know I'm not afraid of work. I'll work until the day I die. So. Either way, you're NEVER going to see a single penny of my pension. At least this way, you would make your wife a very happy woman if you never had to see me again. You should take the offer."  He refused. 

For the most part, I'm a level-headed person and I can work with anyone and keep it professional - even my ex-husband. So that's how I look at him. He's just a co-worker. I think this last blowout with him over the girls was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I have to support their decision to keep the toxicity and drama out of their lives. 

Meanwhile, I'm still thinking of ways I can keep him from getting my pension while not having to work until the day I die. LOL Also, I know it's petty of me, but I do get a bit of satisfaction knowing she goes insane every time he sees me and talks to me. 

All you can do is take the high road and not let the drama and toxicity derail you. Continue to be the safe place to land for your kids. 

Edited April 23 by Oldenuff2know

[tzorno]

6 hours ago, Oldenuff2know said:

- How long did it take you to get over the anger?  

I don't know if I'll truly ever be over the anger. Just this past week, I saw him at work. We were talking (I'll try to keep this short) - I said "Did you see our "navy buddy" is back on Facebook after a 2 year hiatus? He said "Since my FB account was shut down and that account was banned permanently, I had to create a new FB and now I'm not friends with a lot of the people from our past" (trust me...that's his controlling wife) I said "Your account was permanently banned? Someone must have reported you for something pretty serious to have that happen." He said "Yes, we believe it was one of the girls." (our daughters) I was furious, but kept my cool. I said "C'mon. You know better than that. They are not vindictive like that." He said "I hope not". I said "When did that happen? Because one of the reasons they've been upset with you is they think you blocked them on FB and that really hurt them. If your account disappeared because it was disabled, then maybe this has all been one big misunderstanding between the four of you?" I told him to think about that. We exchanged a few emails over the next few days with him stating maybe it's time for him to reach out to them and mend fences. Fast forward 24 hours, I get an email that says our daughters are evil and they didn't get that from him, so it must be my doing. He is never going to reach out to them and he does not want them to reach out to him. What? WHAT?? I am incensed. Furious! I KNOW that was his wife's influence. She doesn't intend to share him with his daughters. Somehow, he blames ME for their estrangement instead of blaming HIMSELF being influenced by HER. GRRRRR!

- At what point did your kids quit speaking to him?  Did he do something other than the obvious to cause it?

We've been apart for 11 years, now. In the beginning, things were okay. She was pleasant to them, but she hated me and any contact with me was forbidden. When the girls were there, they would both bad mouth me. My daughters did not like that. They also noticed he was a different person when she was around. They told him they wanted to see him alone, without her, because they wanted "their old dad" back. He would do that once (usually because they were fighting - probably about him seeing them), then the next time, she would be there because she would not allow him to see them alone. That lasted for about the first 8 years. Slowly, they went from seeing him multiple times a month and spending all the holidays with him (I always encouraged them to spend that time with him because I got to see them every day), to seeing him maybe once a month for awhile, then it eventually dwindled down to every few months, then 6 months, etc. He also spent the whole time criticizing everything about their lives, their jobs, their boyfriends, etc. He's always been a bit critical, but they could handle it. I think he was trying to fit all that criticism into those visits that became few and far between. Finally, the oldest and the youngest said they just didn't want the drama and toxicity in their lives any more and they refused to see him. My middle daughter was still seeing him (she's my sensitive one), but then he started criticizing them to her and she told him she didn't want to see him anymore and she needed to side with her sisters. Basically, he (to this day) will not admit that his wife is controlling and manipulative. All they wanted was to have a relationship with HIM, without her and he refused and made excuses for her. No matter how many times I tried to explain this to him, he just didn't get it. Nothing was his fault. It was all their fault. 

- When you see him at work, how do you keep civil and not get triggered especially when you know half of your hard work is for him?

This might be the hardest part, now. Sunday night, when I saw him, I tried to stay calm. I told him exactly what I thought of his wife, of his weakness not to be able to stand up to her for the sake of his daughters, and told him she's an opportunist. The moment he can no longer work, making his current salary and keep her in the style to which she has become accustomed, she'll drop him like a hot potato and go find someone to support her. He'll be alone because she has isolated him from all friends and most of his family and he'll live out his days in misery and loneliness.

Then, I made him an offer. I KNOW it absolutely drives her INSANE that he has to see me at work, so I told him "If you sign away your claim to my pension, I will quit this job right after (our youngest daughter's) wedding in October. Your wife will be thrilled. We can go on with our lives without ever setting eyes on one another again. He said no. He wants that pension. Then I told him, "Well, you know I'm not afraid of work. I'll work until the day I die. So. Either way, you're NEVER going to see a single penny of my pension. At least this way, you would make your wife a very happy woman if you never had to see me again. You should take the offer."  He refused. 

For the most part, I'm a level-headed person and I can work with anyone and keep it professional - even my ex-husband. So that's how I look at him. He's just a co-worker. I think this last blowout with him over the girls was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I have to support their decision to keep the toxicity and drama out of their lives. 

Meanwhile, I'm still thinking of ways I can keep him from getting my pension while not having to work until the day I die. LOL Also, I know it's petty of me, but I do get a bit of satisfaction knowing she goes insane every time he sees me and talks to me. 

All you can do is take the high road and not let the drama and toxicity derail you. Continue to be the safe place to land for your kids. 

Wow.  Thank you for sharing your story.  I know its hard sometimes.  Our stories are very similar in a lot of aspects.

I feel awful for your kids.  My ex-wife alienated our kids too.  My daughter still endures her, but its a strained relationship to say the least and its not often that they get together.

Again, I know all of this is hard, but take comfort in knowing that you ex is with a full blown narcissist and he's miserable deep down.  He regrets his actions, but is to afraid and weak to admit it and change his current lifestyle.

[Oldenuff2know]

@tzorno One reason I've had such difficulty with their estrangement is that my own dad left when I was 3 years old and had nothing to do with me. Just three years ago (at age 60), I found him on the internet and contacted him. Now, we talk once a week or every few weeks. I didn't want that estrangement for my daughters. Also, in the past 11 years, I also remarried and now I am widowed. My second husband was not a nice man and tried to isolate me from my daughters, but I didn't allow it and that is the difference between my ex-husband and me. I was also married to a controlling narcissist, but I chose my daughters. My full story is out here. I started posting when I separated from my husband in 2013, but back then, I was posting under a different name - vla1120. I lost my login info and also lost access to the email address I was previously using, so I created a new account. I might even go back and browse over some of my old posts to remind me how far I've come. It does get better. I am content and more comfortable who I am than I have ever been.

[Weezy1973]

21 hours ago, Oldenuff2know said:

Meanwhile, I'm still thinking of ways I can keep him from getting my pension while not having to work until the day I die.

Random question - does he just get half the portion of your pension you earned while you were married? Or does he get half of your pension including what you’ve earned post divorce (and / or prior to marriage)?

From what I’ve seen for partners who get part of a pension, that part gets paid out at the time of divorce in a locked in fund that they can’t touch until they draw from it in retirement. But for your divorce it seems he doesn’t get it until you retire?

[Oldenuff2know]

1 minute ago, Weezy1973 said:

Random question - does he just get half the portion of your pension you earned while you were married? Or does he get half of your pension including what you’ve earned post divorce (and / or prior to marriage)?

From what I’ve seen for partners who get part of a pension, that part gets paid out at the time of divorce in a locked in fund that they can’t touch until they draw from it in retirement. But for your divorce it seems he doesn’t get it until you retire?

He gets half of the pension I earned only during the time we were married (which is about 12 years and will equate to a little more than one third of my pension amount when I retire). In my state, he cannot collect until I retire and he cannot collect a lump sum, only the percentage monthly. 

[tzorno]

42 minutes ago, Oldenuff2know said:

@tzorno One reason I've had such difficulty with their estrangement is that my own dad left when I was 3 years old and had nothing to do with me. Just three years ago (at age 60), I found him on the internet and contacted him. Now, we talk once a week or every few weeks. I didn't want that estrangement for my daughters. Also, in the past 11 years, I also remarried and now I am widowed. My second husband was not a nice man and tried to isolate me from my daughters, but I didn't allow it and that is the difference between my ex-husband and me. I was also married to a controlling narcissist, but I chose my daughters. My full story is out here. I started posting when I separated from my husband in 2013, but back then, I was posting under a different name - vla1120. I lost my login info and also lost access to the email address I was previously using, so I created a new account. I might even go back and browse over some of my old posts to remind me how far I've come. It does get better. I am content and more comfortable who I am than I have ever been.

I understand the estrangement feelings, but when a parent is the cause, what is there to do?  The adult kids have a mind of their own and make their own decisions. In my case, the ex looked both of her kids in the eyes and said she didn't care about them or anybody else (more than once), she just needed out of the house.  Now she was drunk at those times and probably doesn't even remember saying it, but the kids will never forget.  My son shut her out afterwards and still does.  Can you blame him?  I would have done the same.  The ex has tried to contact him and mend the fences, but he has none of that.  My daughter just wants her old mother back and seemingly never gives up, but does make her suffer from time to time.

One thing that never escapes my mind is that my exes mother pulled a similar stunt and it took 10 or so years to repair the damage.  I wonder if the ex expects the same to happen with her and the kids.  She has told my daughter that the guy she is with now tells her over and over to just give it time as he's been through the same thing several times (of course he has and he still has a daughter that doesn't speak to him).  The only thing though is my son is different.  He holds grudges.  He remembers things that people have said to him since he was 5.  I doubt any amount of time will repair the damage she caused and that's a shame.  A bond between a mother and her kids is the strongest bond there is and she managed to destroy that.  Surely she is paying for that, but i'm not sure. 

[Will am I]

@tzornoIt seems your ex wife may have serious psychological and addiction problems. Of course the consequences are on her. The alienation between her children and herself is a consequence of her behaviour it seems.

Was she always like that? At one point in time this must have been the person you wanted to grow old with, right? 
I believe there is healing in reconciling those feelings from the past with the feelings that stem from the broken situation later on.

 

This is about you moving on emotionally, and moving on needs a solid narrative. “she was always an evil b” doesn’t really cut it, because deep down tou know it conflicts with the other feelings you once had.

 

[tzorno]

2 minutes ago, Will am I said:

@tzornoIt seems your ex wife may have serious psychological and addiction problems. Of course the consequences are on her. The alienation between her children and herself is a consequence of her behaviour it seems.

Was she always like that? At one point in time this must have been the person you wanted to grow old with, right? 
I believe there is healing in reconciling those feelings from the past with the feelings that stem from the broken situation later on.

 

This is about you moving on emotionally, and moving on needs a solid narrative. “she was always an evil b” doesn’t really cut it, because deep down tou know it conflicts with the other feelings you once had.

 

No, she wasn't always like that.  Meaning she wasn't always an alcoholic.  I'll explain who she was.  She was always impulsive.  She always jumped into the deep end before knowing how to swim and we would deal with the consequences later even after I advised her they were a possibility.  She was impatient and I suppose mean.  Yelled a lot.  Most people dislike her.  Nobody was really comfortable around her.  If we met new friends, the countdown was on before she ran them off.  She was the worst drunk in the world.  Embarrassing to be around.  I always had to reel her in and take her home and she hated that.

She did have good qualities though.  It wasn't always bad.  She was a lot of fun a lot of the time.  I've seen the caring person she could be at times.  She was generous at times.  She was downright loyal and protective to her kids,,,,until she wasn't.  

I suppose a lot of my despair is my own fault.  I'm guilty of believing she was a better person than what she really was.  I overlooked a lot of things.  I didn't care about her negatives because I loved her.  I loved her more every day.  My heart lit up when she came home from work.  I couldn't wait to see and be with her.  And now, I wonder why in the hell I wasted my time.  She wasn't worth a single tear.  Mental illness or whatever,,,,she is not a good person and everybody could see that from the beginning except for me.  Well, thats not entirely true.  I beat myself up now because I actually did see it, but chose to ignore it and that's even worse.  I deserve the pain.  

[tzorno]

Another thing i'm guilty of is looking at how things could have been.  How I wished them to be.  We would have been in a great financial place.  We could have done the traveling and things we dreamed of and talked about.  We could have enjoyed our granddaughter and future grandkids together.  She could have quit her job and I could have retired early.  We were so close, but she just fell off the ledge.  I'm not sure what she was looking for.  The guy she is with now was a person we both disliked and stayed away from.  She even said he was so gross that she didn't know how anybody could be with him.  Now she is.  Was it his money?  The perceived status?  The change of people and unfamiliar faces?  Material things?  I just don't know.

I shouldn't harp on that stuff, but I still do sometimes.  I'm happy with the girl i'm with now.  She's wonderful and I don't deserve her.  I still have the love and respect from my kids, granddaughter, and everybody else.  I have more friends than I deserve.  Although money is always a factor, i'm blessed with enough that provides for food, shelter, and luxuries a lot of other people don't have.  I have a good job and I don't have any serious health issues.  My goodness, what gives me the right to complain about anything?  

 

Edited April 24 by tzorno
Addition to post

[Will am I]

I feel like we’re slowly getting somewhere.

The most wholesome thoughts post divorce are along the lines of “she was actually a pretty good person, but as we grew older we realized there were persistent and growing incompatibilities”. 

You’re showing a glimpse of those thoughts and that’s a very positive development.

 

Reading your latest two posts I can’t help but wonder it she may have suffered from an undiagnosed case of ADHD. Difficulties with impulse control, difficulties with social interactions and proneness to substance abuse are common traits in ADHD patients. 
Now there is no need for you to dig into your ex wife’s medical details or expose anything here, but maybe this is a soothing thought for you. Maybe the wall you kept bumping into wasn’t her but a disorder. Maybe that’s just a little bit easier to swallow.

 

 

[Oldenuff2know]

@tzorno I took some time to go back and read more of the thread. Your initial question was how do you get past the anger. I have to back track a bit and say that when I was 2 years into the separation/divorce, I was also much more angry than I am now. I was especially angry that he is getting 1/2 of the pension I earned when we were married. I was also angry that he picked a controlling, manipulative woman who is literally the antithesis of me in every way possible. I was angry that his family (who was my only family for over 32 years) turned their back on me, and eventually turned their back on my girls. I was angry that he was posting lies on FB about me and that, instead of telling people he cheated on me, he was telling them I was having an emotional affair with a guy from my work (who is young enough to be my son and with whom I have a very close friendship, but nothing more). I couldn't see any of it because his new woman made him block me, but friends would take screen shots and send them to me (even after I asked them not to do me that favor anymore). 

It's been 11 years, now. Like I said, there are days I wish I could go the rest of my life never seeing him again, but there is a little (vindictive) part of me that likes knowing that him having to see me at work a few times a month creates absolute chaos in his marriage. I'm a bit petty like that. Most of all, though, I find myself ruminating about him being estranged from the girls and I go through spurts of raging red-eyed anger knowing he blames them when it falls squarely on his shoulders. 

So, most likely, eventually, your anger will fade like mine did, but you'll go through waves of it off and on, especially when you think about the things she has done to hurt your kids. Regardless of their age, as the supportive/involved parent, I think it's just maddening to know someone has hurt them to the core - especially someone they should have been able to rely on for love and support.

Edited April 27 by Oldenuff2know

[Weezy1973]

@tzorno and @Oldenuff2know since my sister divorced recently I’ve found myself asking folks who are divorced - and don’t have much good stuff to say about their exes this: What were the qualities in your ex that made you choose to build a life and have a family with them? What were the qualities that made you think, yes this person is going to be a good partner and parent of our children? Or did that even go into your thought process when choosing to marry? 
 

[Cinnabar]

@tzorno I want to commend you for your loyalty, honor and enduring love. From my own perspective only, you are the ideal man that many women would fight for. You still care about your ex's mental health and relationship with her children even after her terrible betrayal, thus proving that your love was purehearted and unconditional. You are a splendid specimen of an upright human being, and shine light on a world whose speed of dark is not what we would all have it be.

I am a 55-year-old woman whose husband cheated and left after a 19-year-long marriage; it's been 6.5 years since he dropped the bomb and 4 years since divorce. I still wish, for the sake of our daughter, that we can be reconciled. If you look up Hero's Spouse Forum, you'll see a lot of like-minded folks there, so you are not alone (even if we are very much the statistical minority.)

Your ex behaved very much worse than my ex did. I have no clinical background in psychology, but the fact that her own mother has pulled the same stunt speaks volumes to me. Abused children -- for abandonment does constitute abuse -- can and do sometimes repeat the behavior when they hit midlife and stressors multiply. 

 This is not to justify her behavior, but rather for her loved ones to get a grip on what the h*ll has happened.

Parallels: My ex was neglected and emotionally abused by his mother, but his parents stayed together, albeit unhappily. There was suicide and parental abuse in his grandparents' generation, and his older brother divorced about a decade before his did. On my side, all five of us (first cousins) including my own brother are now divorced, and the one other remaining cousin is alienated from his highly dysfunctional family of origin and visits only once a year for a few hours. I was ADHD/avoidant in my marriage, even though, like you, I was the strong one that looked after my daughter, refused to escalate when my husband cheated and lashed out at me, and saw to it (with his reluctant cooperation) that our assets would not evaporate in expensive legal fights. But then, he did not jump off the ledge like yours did. I am very sorry you'd had to deal with that!


 

[Cinnabar]

Let me clarify that I understand that @tzorno OP is not looking to reconcile, nor would that be fair to him. I am ultimately no longer looking for reconciliation myself. But I think for those of us who are loyal in this particular way, we care so much about the bonds of family and marital vows, we are willing to move heaven and earth to keep them. Of course our views are not dominant in many First-world societies these days. (I am by the way in every other way a Northern-Cal liberal democrat, feminist, immigrant who grew up in Asia and has lived in Europe, FWIW). They are just our own.

I would just like to say that OP's way of accepting his ex's flaws in his 30-year-long marriage is exactly how I did mine, and even how my ex-H took me as I was. Of course OP should do whatever is best and truest to his nature. However, I personally think he deserves only admiration and respect for loving the way he did.

How else is one to love the person one chooses for life, except in this unconditional way? They are the one mortal who makes mortality bearable for us. We love them just as they are. "You are strong, because you are imperfect; you are wise because you doubt" (Winston Churchill.) We do this because we know we are far from perfect ourselves, and we have been loved in this way. 

The fact that our former spouses have thrown away that love should not devalue it. Our love and life together are precious.

I would be the first to admit that I have struggled for the last 6.5 years as I realized the man who told me, "my therapist said I married the wrong woman," is not the man I married. At this very moment I stand in peril of losing my beloved past. Our family which so many friends said was so wonderful. We brought together so many cultures and so much enjoyment of life. And now that past lies in shambles, our college-age daughter is at times still having suicide ideation, and I don't know what to do with those memories. Everything I'd been so proud of now stares at me, bereft. 

But I am helping my daughter heal. She is growing stronger. And my ex-H cares more than he lets on about her. He wants her to do well. Out of the ashes of my shattered marriage and family my daughter and I will save ourselves however we can. 

I just want to say that those of us who love with loyalty and honor should not let that betrayal taint our lives and memory. We do not deserve it. I don't know a good way to avoid that, but I must try. 

You are an amazing man, OP. If my ex-H has been like you my life would not be now the dilemma I face. I don't know that this would help you in any way, but it's a heartfelt thought.

[tzorno]

21 hours ago, Cinnabar said:

Let me clarify that I understand that @tzorno OP is not looking to reconcile, nor would that be fair to him. I am ultimately no longer looking for reconciliation myself. But I think for those of us who are loyal in this particular way, we care so much about the bonds of family and marital vows, we are willing to move heaven and earth to keep them. Of course our views are not dominant in many First-world societies these days. (I am by the way in every other way a Northern-Cal liberal democrat, feminist, immigrant who grew up in Asia and has lived in Europe, FWIW). They are just our own.

I would just like to say that OP's way of accepting his ex's flaws in his 30-year-long marriage is exactly how I did mine, and even how my ex-H took me as I was. Of course OP should do whatever is best and truest to his nature. However, I personally think he deserves only admiration and respect for loving the way he did.

How else is one to love the person one chooses for life, except in this unconditional way? They are the one mortal who makes mortality bearable for us. We love them just as they are. "You are strong, because you are imperfect; you are wise because you doubt" (Winston Churchill.) We do this because we know we are far from perfect ourselves, and we have been loved in this way. 

The fact that our former spouses have thrown away that love should not devalue it. Our love and life together are precious.

I would be the first to admit that I have struggled for the last 6.5 years as I realized the man who told me, "my therapist said I married the wrong woman," is not the man I married. At this very moment I stand in peril of losing my beloved past. Our family which so many friends said was so wonderful. We brought together so many cultures and so much enjoyment of life. And now that past lies in shambles, our college-age daughter is at times still having suicide ideation, and I don't know what to do with those memories. Everything I'd been so proud of now stares at me, bereft. 

But I am helping my daughter heal. She is growing stronger. And my ex-H cares more than he lets on about her. He wants her to do well. Out of the ashes of my shattered marriage and family my daughter and I will save ourselves however we can. 

I just want to say that those of us who love with loyalty and honor should not let that betrayal taint our lives and memory. We do not deserve it. I don't know a good way to avoid that, but I must try. 

You are an amazing man, OP. If my ex-H has been like you my life would not be now the dilemma I face. I don't know that this would help you in any way, but it's a heartfelt thought.

Thank you so much Cinnabar for your words of kindness and affirmation.  You put it into perfect words.  When trying to find reasons why I stayed with her as asked - its simple.  I loved her.  Yes she had faults, but so did I.  I wasn't looking for reasons and faults.  I was just happy that we were together.  Nobody else mattered.  Just her and our kids.  We were a family.  A team.  It's why it's so hard to imagine it happened.  I'm still in denial even thinking about it.  We were the supercouple.  Our kids would brag about us and took our relationship as an example as to how all relationships should be.  People were in disbelief and amazement when they heard the news of our divorce.  Nobody ever thought we would divorce,,,,especially me.  It's why i'm so angry and bitter even after 2 years.  I feel like, if I can't love her, I have to hate her.

When she turned, i'll never forget her looking at me and saying - 'Well everybody does it".  I told her no, not everybody does it, because I would never do it.  She knew it to be true and it shocked her for a moment.  I think that was the last time, the person I knew ever surfaced.  It was evil and grins afterwards.  What she didn't realize is what she stole from me.  The ability to trust, the ability to give my heart to another human being, the ability to love unconditionally ever again.  I don't think i'll ever get over it.  My kids won't either.  It breaks my heart.

I also want to say how very sorry I am for you and your daughter Cinnabar.  You both deserve the love and happiness that was stolen from you.  I know how hard it is, but please never give up.  Never stop being the light in such a dark world.  It'll get better.  It has to.  It won't be the same, but it'll be better.

- Sidenote - I went to the movies last night with my girlfriend, her daughter and her boyfriend.  We saw 'Unsung Hero'.  It was a very touching movie.  It's how families should be.  Sticking together and fighting for each other.  It also reminded me that there are good people out there that are generally kind and generous.  I often lose sight of that.  Anyways, I cried and it touched me.  It does have a lot of religious tones, but the family dynamics is what I want everybody to concentrate on.