What does he want?

[HeartNPA]

20 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

I’ve made some poor choices as it relates to relationship partners but I have learned from every single experience.

Going to remember this, really helpful verbiage to use!  Thank you again ❤️

[Versacehottie]

5 hours ago, HeartNPA said:

MM dumped me a while back and I came to this forum for help digesting & learning and to try to feel less alone.  

We’ve not spoken since then, although he’s tried.   But most recently, I found a message that he’d sent (blocked, but was sent to my spam) where he shared that his wife is pregnant now - due in the late summer- and they’re both very excited for the future.    In it, he apologizes and asks if I hate him and why I’m not responding. 
 

I can’t understand why he shared this.  Why he’s still reaching out and why he cares how I feel.  He made a (what I now know was always the obvious) choice.  He left me to pick up the pieces of myself completely alone.   And now he’s getting what he wanted from her that sent their marriage into their spiral in the first place, according to what he told me. Like he’s won the literal lottery.  

I’m not going to reply, obviously, but like what does he want from me? 

Ok I barely ever come to this section..but when I do I often see a reoccurring theme which I will write about in a minute...

I think if you really need to understand his motives I would put ego boost at the top of the list. A person who is desperately in love with him (whether in the past or present) represents to HIMSELF how special, attractive, magnetic he is. It's not really about "you", I'd guess but him seeking a feeling that he gets from exterior sources which is why people who operate like this--whether it is by cheating in a marriage or any committed relationship are a bad bet. It's sort of insatiable unless they work on themselves and hard. And I would guess, to a certain extent, all people look for some level of an ego boost from a romantic or emotional attachment on a sliding scale. Some people put value into the commitment version and never need or want to go outside a relationship to feel a boost. Others might be tempted but still chose not to do it. And his type/the repeat cheating type, only feel it IF they are getting the attention from outside a commitment.

Here's the thing I would pick one of the plausible explanations you've been given/thought of and determine that is the LIKELY reason...if ONLY for you to be able to move past it. Feeling like you absolutely must have an answer is part of what will keep you stuck....

Ok and now for what I think is the most important part of what you can learn from this little test (life always throws you little tests--it's not necessarily about you & him but a chance to REINFORCE some value/direction YOU have chosen). So the thing I always notice when I come to this section of the forum and (sadly) find so disturbing is that:

a) you see a lot of the people, which mostly seem to be women, creating a narrative where there is an element of FATE to the whole thing.  I think if you can jettison that whole idea that there is some FATE or REASON behind what is happening as far as him popping in and out of your life and take more control as in "life is what you CREATE"..sometimes you won't get the answers, you just move on because you have your own path and direction. If you live like something is FATED, you've given up all your agency (as well as responsibility) over what happens to you. I feel like that is a very repetitive theme in the Other Man/Other Woman section.

b) the other REALLY most important thing--which is at the base of even asking this original question as well as all your subsequent questions--is why are you living your life through his lens???? What he thinks, wants, is doing? what is his reason/purpose/choice etc? Please if you can't see it in your own case, I would urge you to go read other people's stories in the Other Woman section (this section), you will see...over and over they put the Married person at the center of their universe, and I don't even know where they factor in, except they barely ever seem to make themselves the center of their own lives..like they are only who they are IN RELATION to this married (cheating) person--which for an ego boost seeker is like hitting the jackpot. I think you said ONE thing where I could applaud you for finally putting the focus on yourself: 

1 hour ago, HeartNPA said:

I was fine, but now I’m right back in it. 

Ok this is valid... and then at the same time, if you don't believe in fate and you DO believe in yourself and put YOURSELF at the center of your life, it's just a little test life throws at you, for which you have the answers and strength to course correct and get back on the plan you were on a couple of days ago. Part of it also in that same thing HAS TO BE that you learn how to make yourself the center of your life. And ironically, it is what would draw a stable healthy committed guy to you vs a toxic unhealthy relationship. Note: I have seen some women do some crazy sh*t that looks super self-centered in pursuit of these cheating relationships but it's about possession and the guy is still the center of the story. Idk, you can't expect your life to change if you aren't willing to make yourself the star of your story. Don't make him the star. I could go back to the beginning of your post and reworded with genuine dilemma of being popped with this email from him but NOT hypoerfocused on him. I suggest you try it...and really that is sort of the outline for getting over someone that shouldn't be in your life or where it's not a balanced relationship. You can strip away the nuance of married, wife is pregnant etc etc. 

ok good luck

[basil67]

32 minutes ago, HeartNPA said:

Thank you for being so helpful!  But can you truly have a relationship in this day and age without discussing your most recent breakup? 
 

And a long term one without talking through your history? 

You’re not a witness in court - you don’t have to tell the whole truth.  Do whatever makes you makes you comfortable.  But don’t forget that it’s very early days - you’re not ready to be dating yet, so try not to worry in advance
 

 

 

Edited April 10 by basil67

[Gebidozo]

46 minutes ago, HeartNPA said:

Thank you for being so helpful!  But can you truly have a relationship in this day and age without discussing your most recent breakup? 
 

And a long term one without talking through your history? 

People handle those things differently. Personally, I’m a firm believer in complete truth and openness and no secrets between partners in a LTR.

The way I see it is like this: if you really love someone, you’ll accept their romantic past, mistakes and blunders and embarrassing things and horrible choices and everything.

If a guy judges you, or doesn’t want to be with you because of the poor choices you’ve made in your past, he doesn’t truly love you. Which means he wouldn’t be worth having a LTR with anyway.

Both I and my fiancée have “colorful” pasts, and that’s putting it mildly, especially in my case. We told each other everything, and we don’t regret it.

[BaileyB]

57 minutes ago, HeartNPA said:

But can you truly have a relationship in this day and age without discussing your most recent breakup? 
 

And a long term one without talking through your history? 

Yes. 

All he needs to know is that you do not have any STDs and that you are a safe partner for him. No need to tell him who, what, where, when, and how… that’s for you to know. People get themselves into trouble by sharing way too much information with the intention of being honest and transparent. You do not have to be an open book, you are entitled to some privacy in a relationship. You can give him the information that he needs without sharing every last detail… 

Edited April 10 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

9 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

People handle those things differently. Personally, I’m a firm believer in complete truth and openness and no secrets between partners in a LTR.

Key here being the phrase partners in a long term relationship. 

That doesn’t mean that she should be required to share on the first date. But, if you are serious about a guy OP and you think this is something you want to share, I wouldn’t wait until your six month anniversary because then he will be wondering why you were not more forthcoming sooner. You need to pick the right time to have this discussion - give it a few dates, and before things get too serious - that’s when you have the hard discussion. The right guy will love you, regardless. That said, you can be truthful and tell him that you have been the OW in an affair without giving him all the details… Do what you think is best.

Edited April 10 by BaileyB

[Whaatamidoing]

Interesting, I always found with my MM, he couldn't fathom why I didn't feel the same way about his wife and kids that he did. He has this weird delusional thought process that he thought his wife and kids were an important part of his life and was sharing their successes, and I loved him so therefore I should love them and their successes, I had become this weird fifth arm in the family. It wasn't until we got drunk one day that I spilled how i really felt about his wife and he was genuinely shocked. Everyone, loves his wife why did I?! Massive blurred lines between our friendship and our relationship.

The thought behind this, is perhaps yours is the same, he has no idea of boundaries or of women and how awful this could be for you to hear. Honestly, I had to explain why his words/actions were harmful so often. He thinks he's sharing some good news, forgetting who you were to him and him to you. Remember when you write how he left you to pick up the pieces of yourself what he really is. 

Best piece of advice I was given by a therapist was to stop trying to work him out. Only then can you free up enough brain space to properly move on.

[HeartNPA]

9 hours ago, Versacehottie said:

Here's the thing I would pick one of the plausible explanations you've been given/thought of and determine that is the LIKELY reason

Okay, thank you. 

I love this plan.   I’m going with guilt.   I think he recognizes how flexible I was for him and how uncaring and rigid his ending was.   I think he wants me to forgive him.  So, I’ll go with that.   Except, lol, don’t kill me, but now do I need to feel bad for refusing him that? 
 

9 hours ago, Versacehottie said:

why are you living your life through his lens

I loved who I was through his lens.   He genuinely made me feel  cared for and special and appreciated and held.   I guess now that his lens is not so welcoming, it’s a good time to refocus, thank you. 

 

9 hours ago, Versacehottie said:

genuine dilemma of being popped with this email from him but NOT hypoerfocused on him.

 This was also really helpful.  I think I assumed I knew how I felt, but appreciate this reminder to stay there. 

[HeartNPA]

9 hours ago, basil67 said:

you’re not ready to be dating yet, so try not to worry in advance

Thank you, again, for all of your help.  I really appreciate it!  I know this is true, but so unfair.  How can I not be ready, but his life is abundant with joy? 

[HeartNPA]

9 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

If a guy judges you, or doesn’t want to be with you because of the poor choices you’ve made in your past, he doesn’t truly love you.

This is really good perspective.  Who hasn’t blundered?   I appreciate your help, thank you. 

[HeartNPA]

9 hours ago, BaileyB said:

You can give him the information that he needs without sharing every last detail

Story of my life, overhearing.  Very helpful, thank you ❤️

[HeartNPA]

9 hours ago, BaileyB said:

I wouldn’t wait until your six month anniversary because then he will be wondering why you were not more forthcoming sooner. You need to pick the right time to have this discussion - give it a few dates, and before things get too serious - that’s when you have the hard discussion. The right guy will love you, regardless.

Really practical and thoughtful advice.  I appreciate it, thank you.  

[HeartNPA]

4 hours ago, Whaatamidoing said:

stop trying to work him out

Yeah, I hear this.  I think you’re right that maybe he thinks I’ll be excited for him. 
 

I also wonder if he’s curious about where things are for me and feels like if he’s shared maybe I will?  
 

Either way, I think this is exactly right.  It’s not helpful trying to ruminate on his intentions.   Need to move on. 

[Versacehottie]

1 hour ago, HeartNPA said:

I’m going with guilt.   I think he recognizes how flexible I was for him and how uncaring and rigid his ending was.   I think he wants me to forgive him.  So, I’ll go with that.   Except, lol, don’t kill me, but now do I need to feel bad for refusing him that? 

a) no, this is living YOUR life through him, his needs, his perspective, so NO

b) it's just a plausible guess for you to give yourself closure...you'd be using something FATE-like or REALITY-based to consider that there are "real" impacts with this. There is the smallest chance there might be but more than likely it's him facing one of his life's little blips and using YOU to again be his crutch. It's super immature and insensitive to play out his guilt by getting in touch with you when you plausibly have moved on--whether you are in a new relationship or just starting to feel better. I would say this is more ego based evidence--that he makes it all about himself & you are not only here for it but sort of celebrate it as if it gives you value and purpose. The whole point of giving it a likely cause is so that you can move past it, not now analyze this NEXT part to death. Like I've seen in almost every thread this is a way for the Other person to keep a relationship alive, vibrant, dynamic, meaningful, dramatic, fated--when in reality the facts on the ground/actions tell you it''s actually the opposite of that. 

c) you need to work on breaking your habit of seeing what happens (or doesn't happen) to YOU relative or off the nexus of HIM. 

2 hours ago, HeartNPA said:

I loved who I was through his lens.   He genuinely made me feel  cared for and special and appreciated and held.   I guess now that his lens is not so welcoming

But it was an ILLUSION...the bolded is what keeps you stuck (focus on him/no personal responsibility which leaves you weak unable to pull yourself out of this & likely to get into yet another unsatisfying and unhealthy relationship).. You should do some REALITY exercises or something. Try to go through your day and just mentally or verbally label things SIMPLY as they are. "Child opens to to get into car with backpack on" (is he going to school, most likely/probably but try not to editorialize what things means, especially if you compass for interpretation is off--you need to get to the point of where when you make that interpretation of anything is a more optimal interpretation, meaning you are deducing the information correctly & apply it to your reality in the best possible way. Another thing to do for focus on yourself and put value on yourself is to practice labeling the emotions you feel throughout the day and then just notice that they are only emotions and are separate from reality.

[Oldenuff2know]

13 hours ago, HeartNPA said:

I was fine, but now I’m right back in it. 

NOOOO! Stand your ground. Keep him blocked everywhere. Don't wonder why he is the way he is. The fact is, he's selfish and used you (and hopes to keep that door open just a sliver so he can use you again in the future!) You deserve better and you have to want better for yourself! Focus on your own well-being, now. 

[stillafool]

 

12 hours ago, HeartNPA said:

Thank you for being so helpful!  But can you truly have a relationship in this day and age without discussing your most recent breakup? 
 

And a long term one without talking through your history? 

Of course you can leave this out of your history.  You don't have a child with him or anything.  No one knows but you and the MM.  You need to put this way behind you and move on.

[basil67]

6 hours ago, stillafool said:

Of course you can leave this out of your history.  You don't have a child with him or anything.  No one knows but you and the MM.  You need to put this way behind you and move on.

Yes.  There is a reason that the term "skeleton in the closet" was coined.  It's because so many people have big or little skellies left behind in their proverbial closet and they go on to lead good and fruitful lives. 

[HeartNPA]

7 hours ago, Oldenuff2know said:

The fact is, he's selfish and used you (and hopes to keep that door open just a sliver so he can use you again in the future!) You deserve better and you have to want better for yourself!

Thank you!  This is helpful to remember.   It was so easy for him to just drop me so that his wife wouldn’t find me too.  That’s his true colors.  

[basil67]

6 hours ago, HeartNPA said:

Thank you!  This is helpful to remember.   It was so easy for him to just drop me so that his wife wouldn’t find me too.  That’s his true colors.  

Kindly, leaving you behind was the first right thing he's done here.  His true colours where shown when he started up with you in the first place 😐 

The whole thing should never have happened

Edited April 11 by basil67

[Versacehottie]

On 4/10/2024 at 1:37 AM, Whaatamidoing said:

Best piece of advice I was given by a therapist was to stop trying to work him out. Only then can you free up enough brain space to properly move on.

this is exactly right ^^^ part of trying to work him out keeps the fantasy/illusion alive that "something' is happening with him. It's a way for you to live/keep living a relationship even if the way you are living it isn't good.

Another reason why I barely ever come to this forum is it comes off to me that a great many posts what to turn the married person into a VILLAIN (which may or may not have some truth to it but that is not the important part...the important part is that it offloads all the responsibility on how an affair came about onto the married person. There are always both sides contributing to how a person ends up in a situation like this. And if you offload responsibility, it keeps you STUCK. Even worse, if the other person is a VILLAIN then by default you make yourself the VICTIM which is disempowering and contributes also to you being more STUCK.   That is sort of one reason why I said pick a plausible reason and then move on.  Often some people don't even get that in a breakup. You have to be able to give yourself closure. Decide that you may never get a satisfactory reason and still move on!

This applies really in any relationship/relationship breakup...but i think it's all heightened when it's an affair or toxic relationship (which I would argue an affair by definition is that). People are the stories they tell themselves. You, OP, have to be careful of what story you make for yourself. That narrative in your head will set limitations or remove them.

On 4/10/2024 at 5:55 AM, HeartNPA said:

I loved who I was through his lens.   He genuinely made me feel  cared for and special and appreciated and held.

For example with this^^^^ why would you think NO ONE else couldn't give you that feeling in the future? Why limit it just to this guy is able to accomplish this in you? This is story and limitation that you tell yourself and is not even true. In fact, by staying stuck on him, you add value to that story even if the facts don't line up with it. You don't even test the thought in your head by dating others or clearing the slate so you can do that emotionally. So start changing the story you tell yourself...about yourself. If you do it like you have been doing it, I sort of feel like you will focus on him/his reasons/the two of you (unless you do it consciously with purpose)...when what you need to ask yourself "why don't you think you can create that feeling with someone else? What are you doing to make that possible?"

Another reason why this section scares the sh*t out of me, is I see the repetitive theme of people giving away significant chunks of their lifetime and chipping away at every bit of self-esteem they have and the repeating theme I see is that usually the OTHER person is sort of a hallow version of what they could be. They usually seem to have very little interests, friends, relationships with family etc which I'm sure contributed to the dynamic that ended up in the situation...and what perpetuates because they have the Married person on a pedestal and as the center of all their world/thoughts.... What I would say to you, OP, is what is your REAL life like? Why don't you build that out and make it more fulfilling? Otherwise anyone who doesn't would be ripe for this scenario yet again (whether it's an affair or committed but unhealthy relationship)..I think one of the common themes I see is that OTHER people sort of "hide" behind an illusion affair to avoid making their real life more fulfilling.  They hand responsibility for doing that over to this MARRIED/COMMITTED person rather than learn how to give themselves these things/learn how to create life/fulfilling emotions. 

Anyway, good luck😊