Did I do anything wrong?

[Kelpy]

TLDR: I was in a situationship with a guy who used to be really attentive, but after attempting to fire things up again by working on our emotional attachtment, he felt that I wasn't putting enough into satisfying his sexual expectations. But I was trying to be flexible where possible while keeping to what felt comfortable to me at the time. 

So I was in a situationship with this guy who was really attentive and I feel like we had a healthy relationship going where we both liked each other. We had similar views and he really emphasised and encouraged open communication. And we both weren't looking for a relationship. However as the months passed, communication ebbed and flowed and we just let it. Fast forward to now, and we've completely broken up and I guess I'm just questioning my character and whether I did anything wrong or can improve in how I conducted myself.

We were trying to fire things up again and so I asked if he's talking to anyone else (in the romantic sense), since I don't want to be doing things with him if he's with anyone else. And he answers 'no', no problem. But then he asks for my body count which I said I was uncomfortable sharing but I answered anyway since he said it's relevant to him. Then he asked for my head count which I refused to share because I feel like it's really sensitive information and I couldn't figure out how this was relevant. I tell him my concerns but he compares his question to me asking if he's talked to any other girl which I still don't really get because one question is looking to the past and is quite personal while the other isn't. And this is where the argument starts. 

After asking what I wanted in this relationship, I said I wanted a bit more emotion (not in the love sense but I just wanted him to care more) but he started saying that I was being hypocritical in wanting that but not putting the work in and he linked it to me not wanting to share my counts. Eventually we agreed to both put in some more effort because I could see his point in me not putting the work in (for long periods of time we'd go without talking or seeing each other and he's always tried to invite me to his place but on my end, it's been difficult for a few reasons). I ended up sharing my head count but I made it clear that I didn't want to make me sharing sensitive information like that a thing. But I also said that we need to work through the incompatibilities first, because it seemed clear to me that he was ok putting me in an uncomfortable position while I'm the complete opposite to that. I feel like it's important for both parties to feel comfortable in a relationship and if we have to go against out intuitions and boundaries like that, there's a possibility that we shouldn't be together. In this conversation, I emphasised this.

Later on, he asks what I want physically, just so we're on the same page. And I explain that I don't want sex (we've always agreed to no sex through the relationship), I'm not willing to do oral sex, or have penetration. I also said that we can be creative. But he said he thought I was being unreasonable, and unfair, and that I only cared about what I was getting. He went on to say I'm not the kind of person he thought I was because he was gonna to offer himself up emotionally but I wasn't going to give him head or anything. After he said that, I said I'd be open to changing things as we go along. But he still wanted to know that if we were going to get close, that head was on the table.

At that point, I just felt differently towards him. I told him that he's not wrong for wanting certain things but I was beginning to think about whether this was right for me as it seems like we value different things and communication styles. I feel like he was a little pushy with these things. And a lot of the times he didn't acknowledge my point of views (being uncomfortable sharing my past sexual history, being uncomfortable with how he communicated as I feel like he shut me down a lot) while I acknowledged and tried to understand each of his.

My question is, do you think I was being selfish. From my point of view, I just thought a lot of it was incompatibility. And I told him myself that if we can't find a way of getting our boundaries in line and I guess expectations met, we're probably incompatible and we shouldn't be in this together. But on the other hand, he said that he was willing to put in effort on the emotional side since that's what I wanted, but I wasn't willing to give him what he needs sexually. 

[Weezy1973]

So first question would be why a situationship rather than a real relationship? It’s all so ambiguous and undefined. No wonder these conflicts occur.

 

But to your question, no, you’re not being selfish. You’re setting a boundary which is very healthy and for you to enforce on yourself (not him). If he’s saying you must cross your boundary to continue with him, then that makes it easy to stop seeing him. 

[Kelpy]

I understand your first point. But initially with this person, we had really good communication going on and in the early days, we were on the same page on a lot of things including how we felt about each other and sticking to each other's comfort levels. 

On your second point we both weren't looking for a relationship and on top of that we have different views on relationships in general. He's saving himself for a relationship with someone he could legitimately see himself marrying and he's also waiting to establish himself. I came out of a relationship a couple years ago and to be honest I'm not looking to get into another one so quickly especially while I'm in my early 20s because I want to sort my adult life out (e.g I don't feel comfortable not having established myself after finishing uni). 

I feel like I gave him multiple outs because I also didn't think it was fair on him to not get his needs met if this relationship should continue. 

 

[Kelpy]

26 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

So first question would be why a situationship rather than a real relationship? It’s all so ambiguous and undefined. No wonder these conflicts occur.

 

But to your question, no, you’re not being selfish. You’re setting a boundary which is very healthy and for you to enforce on yourself (not him). If he’s saying you must cross your boundary to continue with him, then that makes it easy to stop seeing him. 

I understand your first point. But initially with this person, we had really good communication going on and in the early days, we were on the same page on a lot of things including how we felt about each other and sticking to each other's comfort levels. 

 

On your second point we both weren't looking for a relationship and on top of that we have different views on relationships in general. He's saving himself for a relationship with someone he could legitimately see himself marrying and he's also waiting to establish himself. I came out of a relationship a couple years ago and to be honest I'm not looking to get into another one so quickly especially while I'm in my early 20s because I want to sort my adult life out (e.g I don't feel comfortable not having established myself after finishing uni). 

 

I feel like I gave him multiple outs because I also didn't think it was fair on him to not get his needs met if this relationship should continue. 

[basil67]

2 hours ago, Kelpy said:

But on the other hand, he said that he was willing to put in effort on the emotional side since that's what I wanted, but I wasn't willing to give him what he needs sexually. 

In other words, you were seeing a guy who was trying to coerce you into doing sexual things which you weren't comfortable with.   Just think about that for a minute.

Regarding your numbers, given the two of you weren't having sex, why did he need your numbers?  And even if you were having sex, how are they "relevant" to him?  All a person needs to know is if your STI status.   

All in all, I think the setup the two of you had with all the various limitations was bound to fail.  If you want close male company, that's what a boyfriend is for.  Otherwise, enjoy the company of your female friends.   In the meantime, please work on recognising when your boundaries are being smashed and learn to walk away when you see it happening.

 

[Gebidozo]

I’m confused. If, as you are saying, neither of you wanted a romantic, sexual relationship, what does it matter to him how many men you’ve slept with? He’s in no position to be asking you that question.

And what exactly is he expecting from you sexually if you were clear from the beginning that this “situationship” did not include sex?

It’s also unclear what exactly you’re expecting from this strange “situationship”. Something doesn’t feel quite right here.

Also, could anyone please explain the difference between “body count” and “head count”?🤔

[Acacia98]

OP, he doesn't sound like a particularly pleasant person to spend time with.

I don't think you were being selfish. It sounds like he was trying to coerce you into giving him oral sex.

[basil67]

13 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

Also, could anyone please explain the difference between “body count” and “head count”?🤔

Thank you for asking that question....I was also confused.  Feeling very old right now

[Kelpy]

13 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

I’m confused. If, as you are saying, neither of you wanted a romantic, sexual relationship, what does it matter to him how many men you’ve slept with? He’s in no position to be asking you that question.

And what exactly is he expecting from you sexually if you were clear from the beginning that this “situationship” did not include sex?

It’s also unclear what exactly you’re expecting from this strange “situationship”. Something doesn’t feel quite right here.

Also, could anyone please explain the difference between “body count” and “head count”?🤔

I'm just as confused to be honest. He said it was relevant to him and whenever I tried to press him for an answer, he'd just equate it to me asking him whether he's talking to someone else (I said this was important for me to know before getting into anything with him). 

The situationship didn't include sex but it still was sexual and emotional. The reason I call it a situationship I guess is because we didn't have any expectations towards each other that you would see in a normal relationship (e.g. no dates), and it only went on when we felt like it (so we'd have on and off periods). 

 

I guess you could say this isn't a regular situationship as it didn't include sex but it was essentially a 'custom' type of arrangement that worked for both of us. 

Sorry for the jargon 😅

Body count = the number of people I've had sex with 

Head counts only refer to oral sex

[Kelpy]

32 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Thank you for asking that question....I was also confused.  Feeling very old right now

Just responded to the original poster of the question.

Body counts refer to the number of people I've had sex with while head counts only relate to oral sex. 

[basil67]

3 hours ago, Kelpy said:

Just responded to the original poster of the question.

Body counts refer to the number of people I've had sex with while head counts only relate to oral sex. 

Thank you.

I saw that he equated this information to you wanting to know hat he's single.  It's entirely appropriate that you check someone's single because you don't want to participate now in something that would hurt another.  But his question was about the past, and your past isn't going to affect anyone now, so the questions aren't comparable. 

All in all, if you're happy to share this level of detail, there's no reason why you shouldn't.  But please don't ever allow yourself to feel pressured or obliged to share.  All a person really needs to know is that you're single and your STI status.   If a guy presses and presses for this info, walk away from him

Edited April 14 by basil67

[NuevoYorko]

3 hours ago, Kelpy said:

I guess you could say this isn't a regular situationship as it didn't include sex but it was essentially a 'custom' type of arrangement that worked for both of us. 

From what you've written ... no, it didn't work for either of you.

Honestly I can't wrap my mind around it.

If people like hanging out and doing stuff together why would it have to be so fraught with definitions,   unique parameters, labels, etc.?  

Why try to "fire something back up" if there's not fire?

Pardon me for asking this, but don't you have friends that you really enjoy doing stuff with?  Where you all can just be yourselves?  Have fun, and if you don't feel like it, then go home?   Without all of this ... I can only describe it as "weirdness"?  

[glows]

OP, he asked for your body count and equates it to the question of whether he’s dating anyone aside from you presently because he’s insecure. Read between the lines. He doesn’t feel he measures up to your past and things took a turn. He wants (insert sexual act) from you because it makes up for his insecurity. What he hasn’t gotten enough of in the past is made up by securing that from you if you promise to do those things. Classic. 

This was best left as a casual flirty friendship. The guy needs to do some work on himself before he’s ready to care for someone at the level you’re expecting. Things would flow a lot better then and none of this weirdness would be happening. Dont you think that someone capable of a deeper emotional side or higher EQ would never have put you in this position discussing your past in this way?   He doesn’t have it, period. Just let it go.

[ExpatInItaly]

On 4/12/2024 at 9:24 PM, Kelpy said:

He went on to say I'm not the kind of person he thought I was because he was gonna to offer himself up emotionally but I wasn't going to give him head or anything

I would laughed him straight out the door for that. How old is this person?

What a clown. He has a significant amount of maturing to do, and you need to let him go. Find a man to date instead of a hormonal little punk.This isn''t what dating should be like, OP. "Situationships" isn't dating, either. It's just another silly name for friends-maybe-with-benefits. It's nothing, in other words. 

Please stop wasting your time on him. 

[Kelpy]

7 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

From what you've written ... no, it didn't work for either of you.

Honestly I can't wrap my mind around it.

If people like hanging out and doing stuff together why would it have to be so fraught with definitions,   unique parameters, labels, etc.?  

Why try to "fire something back up" if there's not fire?

Pardon me for asking this, but don't you have friends that you really enjoy doing stuff with?  Where you all can just be yourselves?  Have fun, and if you don't feel like it, then go home?   Without all of this ... I can only describe it as "weirdness"?  

These aren't things that were discussed to be honest. These parameters just naturally came about. 

You raise a good point. To answer your last question, I think we were both seeking emotional and physical intimacy which you can't get from friendships. I do and back when this was happening did have friends but I can't really receive what I was looking for with them (in terms of physical). 

To answer your second question, I probably should've let go of it when we weren't actively in contact with each other just because of the effort it took to fire things up sometimes. And at times I guess it felt a little weird when beginning to try to get things running again but in the moment it felt like the work that needed to be put in to get my needs/wants for a physical connection met. 

[Kelpy]

2 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

I would laughed him straight out the door for that. How old is this person?

What a clown. He has a significant amount of maturing to do, and you need to let him go. Find a man to date instead of a hormonal little punk.This isn''t what dating should be like, OP. "Situationships" isn't dating, either. It's just another silly name for friends-maybe-with-benefits. It's nothing, in other words. 

Please stop wasting your time on him. 

He's approaching his mid 20s. The weird thing is the first time I met him, he felt really mature and honestly his emotional intelligence was off the roof. Sometimes we'd talk and he'd say something that had even a minor chance of being misinterpreted or being received negatively and he'd automatically correct himself before I've even had the chance to bring it up with him. But after this conversation, it almost feels like I'm talking to a different person. 

But rest assured, I have no intention of continuing things with him. 

[ExpatInItaly]

38 minutes ago, Kelpy said:

He's approaching his mid 20s. The weird thing is the first time I met him, he felt really mature and honestly his emotional intelligence was off the roof.

Well, you have now learned that isn't really the case. 

People with true emotional intelligence don't behave the way this guy has. He isn't anything special at all. I am glad you cutting contact with him. 

[Kelpy]

6 hours ago, glows said:

OP, he asked for your body count and equates it to the question of whether he’s dating anyone aside from you presently because he’s insecure. Read between the lines. He doesn’t feel he measures up to your past and things took a turn. He wants (insert sexual act) from you because it makes up for his insecurity. What he hasn’t gotten enough of in the past is made up by securing that from you if you promise to do those things. Classic. 

This was best left as a casual flirty friendship. The guy needs to do some work on himself before he’s ready to care for someone at the level you’re expecting. Things would flow a lot better then and none of this weirdness would be happening. Dont you think that someone capable of a deeper emotional side or higher EQ would never have put you in this position discussing your past in this way?   He doesn’t have it, period. Just let it go.

This didn't click for me until he started asking for other sexual acts and calling me unfair for not being forthcoming. 

Contrary to what's happening now, he used to demonstrate a really high EQ to the point where, though I wasn't interested in pursuing a relationship, I could see that he was good relationship material. 

He always demonstrated an awareness of the impact on his words and if there was any room for negative misinterpretation, he'd reassure me with what he actually meant to communicate all before I'd even raise it up.

Because of how I knew him and thought I knew his character, I thought that what he was saying might have some truth to it. 

I'm not really sure why this 180 happened, but regardless this is it for me. In past relationships, I used to sacrifice my comfort levels but I'm not looking to get into that again. 

[Gebidozo]

12 hours ago, Kelpy said:

The situationship didn't include sex but it still was sexual and emotional

I’m sorry, I still don’t get it. If it didn’t include sex, how could it be sexual?

Do you mean to say it didn’t include sex yet? As in, it was sexually charged, but you wanted to wait a while before you have actual sex? And he was pressuring you for oral sex while you thought it wasn’t time for it yet?

If so, then it’s simple - his behavior was inappropriate. 

But I still can’t quite shake off an odd impression from this entire story…

[Gebidozo]

1 hour ago, Kelpy said:

To answer your last question, I think we were both seeking emotional and physical intimacy which you can't get from friendships

See, that’s why I’m still confused. 

Physical intimacy is a synonym of sex. So you’re saying you were seeking sex (some kind of it, at least). But you also said there was supposed to be no sex in that quasi-relationship. That doesn’t add up…

[glows]

8 minutes ago, Kelpy said:

This didn't click for me until he started asking for other sexual acts and calling me unfair for not being forthcoming. 

Contrary to what's happening now, he used to demonstrate a really high EQ to the point where, though I wasn't interested in pursuing a relationship, I could see that he was good relationship material. 

He always demonstrated an awareness of the impact on his words and if there was any room for negative misinterpretation, he'd reassure me with what he actually meant to communicate all before I'd even raise it up.

Because of how I knew him and thought I knew his character, I thought that what he was saying might have some truth to it. 

I'm not really sure why this 180 happened, but regardless this is it for me. In past relationships, I used to sacrifice my comfort levels but I'm not looking to get into that again. 

My guess is he faked it for a time pretending to act like he cared about you but he really doesn’t know how to care about someone, period. I’ve been coming to the forums for too long.. I hate to say it but the talk of headcount/bodycount generally comes up with younger folk or inexperienced individuals who are deeply insecure. A person who is confident about themselves and what they offer in a relationship won’t do that and there’s mutual respect for one another. The most disturbing part is that you made your feelings and discomfort known he kept pressing for that info and obsessed with it. His logic was flawed but his obsession and insecurity made it valid. He convinced you it was relevant and you caved, thinking you could trust this person but I believe the trust was already broken and you were resentful You now know the person he is and I’m glad you’re not together. 

The second issue is asking for sexual acts which in itself not a bad thing. He’s verbalizing what he needs in a relationship but it came out awkwardly because there was already tension and misgivings on the separate topic above (headcount/bodycount). By this time talk about sex just feels crass and cheap. Hopefully he learns from this and refines the way he talks and treats people. You don’t have to be around until he learns that. 

[Kelpy]

2 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

See, that’s why I’m still confused. 

Physical intimacy is a synonym of sex. So you’re saying you were seeking sex (some kind of it, at least). But you also said there was supposed to be no sex in that quasi-relationship. That doesn’t add up…

I think I'm using a different definition of physical intimacy which is causing confusion. Sorry about that!

I wasn't seeking penetrative sex as I'd rather leave that till I'm in a relationship with someone and he also has similar boundaries in this regard. 

But everything else (save for oral and one or two other things), was on the table. 

 

[NuevoYorko]

5 hours ago, Kelpy said:

These aren't things that were discussed to be honest. These parameters just naturally came about. 

You raise a good point. To answer your last question, I think we were both seeking emotional and physical intimacy which you can't get from friendships. I do and back when this was happening did have friends but I can't really receive what I was looking for with them (in terms of physical). 

What do you mean "physical intimacy" when sex was absolutely off the table, from your side anyway?

Also what do you mean by "offer himself up emotionally"?  

I believe that an emotional connection and bond is formed by most people almost subconsciously.  It's either happening or it's not.   If you DO have those kind of feelings developing for someone, you certainly have choices to make about how to act upon them, or not, but it's really not a question along the lines of "here you go, my emotions." 

On the "sex" side - some of the most emotionally intimate physical acts are not penetrative or oral sex.  This is why prostitutes often do not kiss their customers.  Because these things are reserved for men that they are in love with.

So trying to have a "situationship"  that involves ONLY this kind of "romantic" physical stuff but forbids actual sex is very unrealistic for most people.   In general "making out" etc. is considered "foreplay" for a reason ... it's leading up to sex.  I have never met any men who would be interested in a long term "situationship" that was like a friendship but with making out and feeling up.  It would end up frustrating and somebody would not be happy.

Your idea is not sustainable so I hope you won't keep trying it with various guys.  If you want to have a romantic relationship you can do that without having sex as long as you both are on board with that. 

But trying to be FWB with extreme limits on the "B" (benefits) is ... not happening.  

Just be friends with people.  If you want to have a casual sexual relationship.

5 hours ago, Kelpy said:

To answer your second question, I probably should've let go of it when we weren't actively in contact with each other just because of the effort it took to fire things up sometimes. And at times I guess it felt a little weird when beginning to try to get things running again but in the moment it felt like the work that needed to be put in to get my needs/wants for a physical connection met. 

That's not realistic.  You guys obviously had no chemistry, and, to make matters worse, your idea was not sustainable for the majority of other people.  Evidently he's part of that majority.  

[Kelpy]

2 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

What do you mean "physical intimacy" when sex was absolutely off the table, from your side anyway?

Also what do you mean by "offer himself up emotionally"?  

I believe that an emotional connection and bond is formed by most people almost subconsciously.  It's either happening or it's not.   If you DO have those kind of feelings developing for someone, you certainly have choices to make about how to act upon them, or not, but it's really not a question along the lines of "here you go, my emotions." 

On the "sex" side - some of the most emotionally intimate physical acts are not penetrative or oral sex.  This is why prostitutes often do not kiss their customers.  Because these things are reserved for men that they are in love with.

So trying to have a "situationship"  that involves ONLY this kind of "romantic" physical stuff but forbids actual sex is very unrealistic for most people.   In general "making out" etc. is considered "foreplay" for a reason ... it's leading up to sex.  I have never met any men who would be interested in a long term "situationship" that was like a friendship but with making out and feeling up.  It would end up frustrating and somebody would not be happy.

Your idea is not sustainable so I hope you won't keep trying it with various guys.  If you want to have a romantic relationship you can do that without having sex as long as you both are on board with that. 

But trying to be FWB with extreme limits on the "B" (benefits) is ... not happening.  

Just be friends with people.  If you want to have a casual sexual relationship.

That's not realistic.  You guys obviously had no chemistry, and, to make matters worse, your idea was not sustainable for the majority of other people.  Evidently he's part of that majority.  

It was off the table on both of our sides not just mine. I'm not quite sure how else to explain what I mean by physical intimacy that excludes sex though.

On your second point about offering up emotion. You're right, but we've both admitted to liking each other. So when I talk about emotion, I'm talking more about how someone cares through their actions. An example here would be promising to call in x minutes/hours and saying I should be free but when the time comes there's nothing. So in this case, I would like if the person was more respectful of my time.

Another thing is we live a little far from each other so it can be difficult at times to see each other. So because of the distance, we sometimes have to be more intentional about seeing each other. 

I'm not too sure how I feel about my situation being compared with a prostitute's because I actually like (or liked), this person. 

But anyway, I think time has shown that this isn't sustainable as I'm no longer involved with the person. Based on this experience and previous ones, I don't think I'll be getting into this kind of arrangement again.

 

[NuevoYorko]

42 minutes ago, Kelpy said:

It was off the table on both of our sides not just mine. I'm not quite sure how else to explain what I mean by physical intimacy that excludes sex though.

You've already said that it is sexual in nature - so not like holding hands or giving a hug when greeting.  I get it - making out and "petting" but no penetration or oral, right?

42 minutes ago, Kelpy said:

On your second point about offering up emotion. You're right, but we've both admitted to liking each other. So when I talk about emotion, I'm talking more about how someone cares through their actions. An example here would be promising to call in x minutes/hours and saying I should be free but when the time comes there's nothing. So in this case, I would like if the person was more respectful of my time.

Well ... if people are normal friends, they certainly should be respectful of each other's time and not blow the other off.  That would be a bad friend.  It doesn't equate to "offering (themselves) up emotionally."  It's just ... normal.

42 minutes ago, Kelpy said:

 I'm not too sure how I feel about my situation being compared with a prostitute's because I actually like (or liked), this person.

I didn't compare your situation to that of a prostitute.  In fact, the opposite.  You want a kind of "intimacy" that is not generally found in "situationships" / FWB.  SEX is found in those arrangements.  That's the whole point.

Please just try to be friends or if you feel like having makeout sessions without going further sexually,  I'm sure there are guys who will think that's fun for a time or two.  Not for a formal "arrangement."