There are only very few fights, but they are nasty

[BaileyB]

 

1 hour ago, brokenbird said:

How can someone feel truly secure if their partner watches other bodies with awe and sometimes even masturbate to them

Men in relationships do this every day. Women in relationships so this every day. People in relationships do this together - every day. Couples do all kind of things together - because it excites them and it’s a form of sexual expression. It may not be your cup of tea, but there is nothing inherently wrong with people appreciating other attractive people - even if they are watching them have sex and/or masturbating together while watching. It’s what soap operas, and romance novels, and erotic fiction, and anime, and blockbuster movies are about - 

Back in the day, women had their “stories” and men had their dirty magazines… to each their own. These couples raised children together and some even celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary…

Now, there is a BOOMING contemporary romance and erotic fiction industry for women and free porn on the internet for men. The more things change, the more they stay the same…

Edited May 8 by BaileyB

[NuevoYorko]

2 hours ago, Gaeta said:

I think you are resentful for things he's done in the past, I think it impacted your self-esteem, I think this has broken something in you that cannot be repaired.

I don't agree.  The guy had never even kissed another woman when their relationship started and I think that the OP was drawn to that.   Someone with zero experience would present a lot fewer challenges in a quest to have a lot of control than a fellow who had some history with sex and women.

This guy, turns out, had a history with porn.  So that's the problem.  If it were an ex girlfriend or several, it would be worse.

[Gebidozo]

8 hours ago, brokenbird said:

What's weird is that he was so into porn for the first 3 years and now he seems completely fine without it. And I mean it. The only thing that happened in 1,5 years is that one music video and and I believe him that it began with the music itself, because he had been listening to that channel for about 6 years in his car without seeing the videos, it wouldnt seem weird if he opened it for music but found himself aroused. He told me something very smart: Everyone does the same with their bodies. Even if some do it better, it can be worked on, but its really the same, especially if you have someone that you are attracted to. And I love your body, so why would I want the same experience with a different body when I already like yours? Another woman would have the same kind of genitals, she would also have boobs and booty. You have those. No need to go and try different ones, especially because I also love you not just your body, which I also love as you know.

Look, it all sounds great, and I’m sure he believes it, or at least is working very hard on believing it. But a young, completely inexperienced guy who’s content and to be deprived of private masturbation material and happy to be sexually controlled forever by the very first woman he’s slept with is not a realistic picture.

A young man remaining forever faithful to the woman he’s lost his virginity to is already an exceedingly rare scenario. Frankly, I’m a bit concerned that his virginity seems to matter to you so much. You remind me of some patriarchal-minded men looking for “innocent”, “untouched” young girls so that they can “groom” them sexually, “raise” them.

At the very least, you should be even less controlling if you were his first woman. He is naturally curious and craves sexual variety, like all young men. If he can satisfy that with porn, be happy. I’d encourage him to watch porn if I were you.

[Gebidozo]

6 hours ago, brokenbird said:

Then what should I do? Turn away when I see any sign of sexual content and not feel disrespected?

Yes. Everyone has have been telling you this for days in this thread.

Turn away and be happy it’s just stupid online content and not him actually sleeping with someone else besides the only woman he’s ever known. If all he does is watch pictures and movies and stays faithful to you, he is a bloody saint.

[Gebidozo]

5 hours ago, brokenbird said:

I do feel respected, until masturbation comes up.

You said before that you understood that masturbation has nothing to do with respect or disrespect. Now you’re back to your insecurities and policing attitude?

What’s the point of you asking for advice here if you keep ignoring everything people say to you? 

 

5 hours ago, brokenbird said:

Also, what does excessive porn use mean? In those 3 years, he used it like once a week. 

“Excessive” means “so much that it negatively impacts sex life”. Like, for example, he can’t get it high anymore because he already came 5 times that morning watching porn. I find it hard to imagine that a weekly porn session can have any effect on your sex life.

[Gebidozo]

4 hours ago, brokenbird said:

I have read somewhere that a woman watches the Frasier series repeatedly because the actors are hot for her,and her husband doesnt mind it.

Of course he doesn’t mind. Just ask yourself this question: why should he mind?

4 hours ago, brokenbird said:

How can someone feel truly secure if their partner watches other bodies with awe and sometimes even masturbate to them

Because this has nothing to do with the sexual relationship of the partners themselves, and is a healthy outlet or even source of inspiration for fantasies that can actually spice up sex life. 

[Gaeta]

1 hour ago, NuevoYorko said:

The guy had never even kissed another woman when their relationship started

Yes l know he had 0 experience when he met her. When l said he did things she was resentful of l meant the over utilization of porn and him prefering porn and masturbation over sex with her (she mentionned that a couple pages ago) Porn and videos back then became her competitors. 

[NuevoYorko]

1 hour ago, Gebidozo said:

A young man remaining forever faithful to the woman he’s lost his virginity to is already an exceedingly rare scenario. Frankly, I’m a bit concerned that his virginity seems to matter to you so much. You remind me of some patriarchal-minded men looking for “innocent”, “untouched” young girls so that they can “groom” them sexually, “raise” them.

Agree.  I've mentioned before that if the genders were reversed in this poster's many threads, people would be getting concerned for the well being of the woman.   

Controlling relationships are very harmful to people, even if it never gets into the territory of physical abuse.  

Also, a person's sexuality can be damaged long term if they are constantly being called on the carpet for their preferences, fantasies, etc. and being asked to repress them.   

Many people actually need   a measure of privacy - even secrecy - for their sexuality to be healthy.   

It doesn't have to involve other people or in any way threaten their relationship.

 

Edited May 9 by NuevoYorko

[ExpatInItaly]

We're just going around and around in circles here. 

There is no way this relationship will last. Everything else is just noise at this point.  

[brokenbird]

7 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

I’m a bit concerned that his virginity seems to matter to you so much.

There it goes. I didn't know he was a virgin. Because guess what, he lied about that during the time we were just friends. He knew I didn't want to get with a guy that is inexperienced because I wanted my man to teach me, hence I was inexperienced. When we got together and he asked about my past partners, I asked back about his, and he admitted there was none.

 

7 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

young man remaining forever faithful to the woman he’s lost his virginity to is already an exceedingly rare scenario

I believe it is not,I know many. How does it Sound, " Im breaking up with you. Oh no, I still love you. Noo, sex is great. Yes, you make me happy. Why? Ugh, you hadnt slept with others before so you will cheat on me. Oh no I know you hadnt, yes, 10 years passed, but still, maybe you will do it at 11"

 

7 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

If all he does is watch pictures and movies and stays faithful to you, he is a bloody saint.

Well he really is. 

7 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

I find it hard to imagine that a weekly porn session can have any effect on your sex life

It can when someone's libido is not the highest. He doesnt have to masturbate in the morning to porn 5 times to not be able to have sex. If we have 2 rounds a day, the second one is much much harder for him, or it can go soft for a minute before getting hard again. So if he just masturbated once, for 5 minutes, or 20, doesnt matter, he could have sex so carelessly later that day. Also, there are weeks when he is in the mood every single day, and weeks when its maybe 2-3 days. Let's say he used porn, if he had already managed 2 times, he would only have sex 1 time with me. This is a weird walkthrough, but I wanted to explain in some way that even once or twice a week can give a huge impact.

 

6 hours ago, Gaeta said:

porn and him prefering porn and masturbation over sex with her (she

Oh I see. Then no, I am not resentful because of those things anymore. And I came to realize that is was not really preferring porn over me, because he still came to me and showed me appreciation, we still were intimate, he just didn't feel the need to wait, or to try and make me and himself open up. Its more like a lack of knowing himself and knowing the right way than preference for porn.

Im more resentful because of something that I have already discussed before, that I already know is not a big deal, but I did mention that I have OCD and it keeps bugging that part of my brain. I had a reply here saying that I know how teen category is not related to the 16-19 case because I have seen the videos and he never watched anything creepy, those women were literal 25 year old adults with titles saying 18. I know for a fact that he wouldnt even date to look in the direction of an underage person,its just my OCD, I realize the pattern when it happens.

[BaileyB]

3 hours ago, brokenbird said:

I didn't know he was a virgin. Because guess what, he lied about that during the time we were just friends.

I was not truthful with the first person I had sex with and you know what - he didn’t care. I didn’t tell him because it was none of his business. We talked about sexual health and birth control - that he had a right to know. It was my right to disclose whether he was the first or the fifth. People are entitled to some personal privacy in relationships. 

People “lie” by omission about their sexual experience and porn use/masterbation when they feel embarrassed or are shamed by their partner. This is probably more common in relationships than you would ever think to believe. The kind and respectful thing to do is not to further shame your partner - 

You don’t trust this guy and that’s why this matters - you have added “lying” about his virginity to the score card of things he did “wrong” and use it forever as a reason to police him. 

Edited May 9 by BaileyB

[brokenbird]

7 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

I was not truthful with the first person I had sex with and you know what - he didn’t care. I didn’t tell him because it was none of his business. We talked about sexual health and birth control - that he had a right to know. It was my right to disclose whether he was the first or the fifth. People are entitled to some personal privacy in relationships. 

People “lie” by omission about their sexual experience and porn use/masterbation when they feel embarrassed or are shamed by their partner. This is probably more common in relationships than you would ever think to believe. The kind and respectful thing to do is not to further shame your partner - 

You don’t trust this guy and that’s why this matters - you have added “lying” about his virginity to the score card of things he did “wrong” and use it forever as a reason to police him. 

Oh no I dont care. I cared for maybe that day. As soon as he said that he was really into me and didn't want to screw his chances by telling the truth, I forgave him. As a 20 year old I cared because I was very inexperienced with sexuality and I wanted someone that can help me grow, but as soon as I had feelings for him, I didn't care. And actually, in the end, it was us for each other that helped with growing sexually. It amazes me each time how I am 100% more attracted to him now than in the first years. And vice versa. Because we have great experiences with one another and its not just about looks anymore, but about the fact that we know how good it will be. Sometimes we even joke "we are definitely not breaking up" after being intimate. 

[BaileyB]

25 minutes ago, brokenbird said:

Oh no I dont care. I cared for maybe that day. As soon as he said that he was really into me and didn't want to screw his chances by telling the truth, I forgave him.

It’s not something that needs forgiveness though… he did nothing wrong.
 

3 hours ago, brokenbird said:

I didn't know he was a virgin. Because guess what, he lied about that during the time we were just friends.

Maybe it’s the fact that this is written and it’s difficult to understand the context that has lead to confusion, but I read this to say “guess what - he lies about that too. He lied about the porn. He lied about his previous experiences. He is a liar and that’s why I need to be on guard.” If that was not what you meant, I apologize for any misunderstanding. 

Edited May 9 by BaileyB

[brokenbird]

Just now, BaileyB said:

It’s not something that needs forgiveness though… he did nothing wrong.

I think lying is wrong. At least it feels wrong. I did it one time towards him and I felt shame, couldnt even hold it for a week. 

 

1 minute ago, BaileyB said:

If that was not what you meant, I apologize for any misunderstanding. 

Yes, its a misunderstanding, I think I understand many things differently than native english speakers. Just like arguing and debating, I didn't know there was a difference. We hardly ever argue, its more like debating, and as time is passing, even the "we fight once a month" was too much. I think its more once every 2 months and always coming from misunderstanding, not compromising and pushing each other's buttons.

I remember you saying you and your partner hardly ever do things that need apologising. I guess one of the reasons is that you are also an easy going person and you guys were more mature. Im not going to lie that I was very much immature, thinking every single thing is a red flag. 

[BaileyB]

I

11 minutes ago, brokenbird said:

I think lying is wrong. At least it feels wrong.

I don’t disagree. But where there is shame and embarrassment, people are not always forthcoming… You have very rigid expectations, in part as a form of self protection, but those expectations and the shame that he feels from not meeting those expectations will cause him to lie to you… the sexy music video is a perfect example. You have an unrealistic expectation that he should not want to watch sexy videos - so, he lies to you about his viewing habits. 

Relationships should be safe spaces. He should be able to be honest, share his thoughts/feelings, and express himself sexually with the morality police coming down on him. Under these circumstances - people rebel. If you want to have a mature and healthy relationship with a man, you will need to allow him more personal freedom and be less controlling…

Thats all I will say…

Edited May 9 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

12 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

those expectations and the shame that he feels from not meeting those expectations will cause him to lie to you…

That and the fact that he just wants to avoid conflict - 

[brokenbird]

31 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

I

I don’t disagree. But where there is shame and embarrassment, people are not always forthcoming… You have very rigid expectations, in part as a form of self protection, but those expectations and the shame that he feels from not meeting those expectations will cause him to lie to you… the sexy music video is a perfect example. You have an unrealistic expectation that he should not want to watch sexy videos - so, he lies to you about his viewing habits. 

Relationships should be safe spaces. He should be able to be honest, share his thoughts/feelings, and express himself sexually with the morality police coming down on him. Under these circumstances - people rebel. If you want to have a mature and healthy relationship with a man, you will need to allow him more personal freedom and be less controlling…

Thats all I will say…

So you really say that if someone thinks "I want to watch that video of a (his use of word, not mine ->) sl*tty girl with barely any clothes on, well now I am horny, let's go jack off ", it can be a respectful relationship? Because if it really could be, I would be fine. I dont feel bad because I think he would leave me for those women, but because I believe that if you can think and feel like that, you cant truly want your relationship with your partner 

[BaileyB]

23 minutes ago, brokenbird said:

So you really say that if someone thinks "I want to watch that video of a (his use of word, not mine ->) sl*tty girl with barely any clothes on, well now I am horny, let's go jack off ", it can be a respectful relationship?

A quick google search tells me that 10% of people watch porn daily. Approximately 40% of young men report having watched porn in the past week and 60% report having watched porn in the past month.

Are you going to tell me that NONE of these young men have a healthy and respectful relationship with a woman? 

https://ifstudies.org/blog/how-prevalent-is-pornography#:~:text=use of pornography.-,A majority (57 percent) of men ages 30–49,point during the past month.

But this really isn’t about porn use - there are other issues at play here. You are just hyper focused on porn and as such, it is the topic of discussion. 

Edited May 9 by BaileyB

[brokenbird]

6 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

A quick google search tells me that 10% of people watch porn daily. Approximately 40% of young men report having watched porn in the past week and 60% report having watched porn in the past month.

Are you going to tell me that NONE of these young men have a healthy and respectful relationship with a woman? 

https://ifstudies.org/blog/how-prevalent-is-pornography#:~:text=use of pornography.-,A majority (57 percent) of men ages 30–49,point during the past month.

The problem in your relationship isn’t porn - that’s just the topic of discussion. 

10/7 those fights started because of a sexual topic, so I believe it really is about that, at least for me. The other ones are just like the main topic of this thread, which could be easily avoided if I just said "fine, he doesnt understand what I am saying, let's quit this talk ", but I would call that a hard learned lesson and not an actual problem. If it was a problem, I would still not see it. But you guys made sure I understand that if none of us understands the topic, one has to quit. For me it is a lesson

[BaileyB]

17 minutes ago, brokenbird said:

10/7 those fights started because of a sexual topic, so I believe it really is about that, at least for me.

The reason why porn is an issue for you is because you have some pretty significant hang-ups about sex and morality. You have these hang-ups in part because you do not have a secure sense of self esteem. You don’t trust your partner. But, the reason you don’t trust him is not necessarily because he has been untrustworthy - it’s because you are insecure, you have unrealistic expectations, and you have your guard up - you are always on the lookout for red flags or any sign of disrespect and you are going to put a stop to that - before he even has a chance to disrespect you. It’s difficult to have a healthy relationship when you don’t have a lot of experience seeing/being in a healthy relationship. Your OCD does not help you to have a peaceful relationship when your mind is always working and always on alert. But, your behavior is controlling and it is going to destroy the very relationship that you are trying to build/keep.

Porn/sex is not the issue, it is simply the topic that you fight about. 

Edited May 9 by BaileyB

[Gaeta]

1 hour ago, brokenbird said:

I believe that if you can think and feel like that, you cant truly want your relationship with your partner 

I wonder what lies beneath that belief. Explain to me how looking at a stranger shaking her body to some music makes him not truly want to share his life with you?

To use my J.Momoa example. When I look at him and fully enjoy the shape of his body I don't want a relationship with him, heck! he'd call me and I still would not want a relationship with him because I want a relationship with my boyfriend because my boyfriend is more than skin and muscles, he's an amazing human being who makes me feel on top of the world with his love, kindness, generosity, selflessness. There is no amount of sexy bodies that would rip me away from him. 

[brokenbird]

3 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

wonder what lies beneath that belief.

I think its more things combined. One of them is definitely seeing other girls break down and support each other when something like this happens. I have seen this behaviour around me and on the internet too. My ex has a part of it, I saw him loving his new girlfriend (I was friends with the girl) but still following pornstars on Instagram, and he ended up cheating on her like 10 times before it came out. Maybe also that I used to hang out with guys between 18-22 and the way they just casually talked about girls bodies made me think that they are all the same - seeing women as objects. Porn in itself makes me believe that men are not capable of cherishing a relationship. Its so weird to me that they watch girls with huge lips, humongous bbl-s and fake looking boos, while choosing a natural, pretty and well built girl as a girlfriend. Dont get me wrong, I dont care about plastic surgery, you do you, but how do they get turned on by something that looks very much fake when they also get turned on by their natural looking girlfriends. Its like one is a mustang horse with painted on stripes to resemble a zebra and the other is a friesian horse. I know many people prefer natural looking pornstars, but even my guy watched some of the most basic "yeah that girl looks like a pornstar" women, and somehow he finds me hot and pretty. I just dont get it. Or just the things they say at weddings, or just ás an everyday compliment. "I see you and only you" - well if you only see your wife, how do you go and watch Baywatch for the tits and jack off. Why the need to say you only see her. Or there is a saying in my country, it goes something like "I vowed for loyalty and not for blindness" - which basicly means I would f her, but I choose loyalty, so I only stare. Also, I find myself relatively good looking, but I do have my faults, for example my belly is not flat. My boyfriend never said he doesnt find me attractive because of it. Never even made me feel like that. But he did mention , when I asked, that one of the sexiest things he saw on me was my belly, which was flat and muscular years ago. So when he sees all those flat bellied girls, how can I think he is not thinking "kinda sad my girl lost this kind of belly". I mean I see that my boy gained weight and he lost his abs for a dad bod, but I truly dont care even though I also like a flat somach. I know men are more superficial with looks, so I cant know for sure he thinks like I do. And Im not saying he would leave me for a belly

[Gaeta]

8 minutes ago, brokenbird said:

Or there is a saying in my country

Do you come from a very conservative country. Is what you believe the norm in your country? Is your boyfriend of the same culture?

Edited May 9 by Gaeta

[stillafool]

4 minutes ago, brokenbird said:

Its so weird to me that they watch girls with huge lips, humongous bbl-s and fake looking boos, while choosing a natural, pretty and well built girl as a girlfriend.

C'mon not all girls in porn look like a stereotypical porn star.  Some are very pretty, sexy, young women with banging bodies who haven't had any surgeries.  Also there is amateur porn where everything is natural. Very few men are into the fake look of old anyway.

[brokenbird]

Just now, Gaeta said:

Do you come from a very conservative country. Is what you believe the norm in your country? 

Well, my country is a whole *ss caos, so I cant really answer this. We dont respect laws like they do for example in the USA. Here kids start to drink alcohol at 13, have sex at 14-15. That is why I was scared to write down the "16-19" stuff, because here is is quite average. 

Just now, stillafool said:

C'mon not all girls in porn look like a stereotypical porn star.  Some are very pretty, sexy, young women with banging bodies who haven't had any surgeries.  Also there is amateur porn where everything is natural. Very few men are into the fake look of old anyway.

Yes, I know. My boyfriend used to watch one that was all nature aside from her lips. But very fake ones too. He watched both amateur and unbelievably fake porn too, where you rather laugh at the facial expressions than find pleasure in it. The only thing that is the same for him in porn and reality is hair colour, he says he doesnt have a preference, but is is obviously brown and long. He just says that so I can colour my hair anything I want, but its obvious that he prefers my original long and brown hair. That pornstar he watched looked like that too. 

I also see guys being into the "porn lips", because women with huge lips look good while giving oral, but they dont want their girl to actually overfill their lips