Ultimatums

[chryssy83]

I feel like ultimatums in a relationship are wrong--they are a form of manipulation/control. He has an ex, I don't like them seeing each other, so he lies to me about it. Then I find out, we fight, he agrees to stop, and then does it again anyway. They are friends, but she wants to date him and so she refuses to acknowledge that I exist.

 

I don't have a problem with them having contact--just with secrecy and the fact that she refuses to accept his whole life (including me).

 

If I say "her or me" it presents two problems: 1) I think ultimatums are unfair, and so does he (see above reasons) and 2) because we have agreed in the past that ultimatums aren't fair, he would probably just choose her.

 

Here's my issue...if he knows something bothers me, but won't change it because he doesn't want to lose either of us, isn't he in essence already making the choice without the ultimatum? If it comes down to picking between never seeing/hearing from me again and retaining this friendship in a way that I can't live with, and he fights for the friendship...then that just means he doesn't want me, right? Even though what he SAYS is that I'm the one he loves.

 

I am a very literal person and I want him to come out and tell me exactly what he wants...but apparently I just need to read the signs and do something because we just go round and round. It's driving me crazy. Any thoughts?

[Mz. Pixie]

For whatever reason, he wants to hold onto her more than he wants to keep the relationship with you.

 

It's a huge red flag when your SO wants to be friends THAT bad with a member of the opposite sex, and then lies about it.

[JadeStar]

By him having you and this other girl in his life then he sees it as having the best of both worlds, or having his cake and eat it too.

 

Ulitmaiums are generally not good, because people usually will not follow through with what they say they are gonna do. Its not fair to you that he has both you and her in his life, especailly since he knows how you feel on the matter. Sounds like hes not wanting to get rid of either of you. However, to maintain a healthy relationship with you, one thats honest, and trustworthy then it would seem he need not have this other person in his life or least not so tight.

 

I would say that if you feel he isn't gonna choose, then you might have to be the one to step up to the plate and do it for him. If you feel this is not a fixable situation and that he will keep you both, then you might have to just let him go without the ulitimatum. Ultimatums should be used only when and if everything else has been tried, or as a last resort. If you feel its worth a shot then fine, but remember, if you say to him, "Its either me or her, and if its her, then I'm gone." Just remember that you have to follow through on what you say, or he will never take you seriously and things will stay the same.

 

 

 

 

Jade

[bluechocolate]

Here's my issue...if he knows something bothers me, but won't change it because he doesn't want to lose either of us, isn't he in essence already making the choice without the ultimatum?

 

Yes.

 

I assume he knows that what this girl really wants is to get back together? As long as she wants to continue to date him & have no relationship with you then her pretense at friendship is just that - a pretense. And him stringing her along is cruel to her & detrimental to his relationship with you.

 

Then I find out, we fight, he agrees to stop, and then does it again anyway.

 

You've played that game already so there is no need to continue.

 

No ultimatums are necessary. He's made a choice & now it's your turn.

[chryssy83]

Do you think it means that there is something that he needs in a relationship that he isn't getting from me? Why would he need her if I'm what he wants?

[bluechocolate]

Do you think it means that there is something that he needs in a relationship that he isn't getting from me? Why would he need her if I'm what he wants?

 

There isn't much point in trying to figure out what's going on in his head or what might be missing in the relationship or what you're not giving him or what he might be getting from her or.... Honestly, that really is a pointless exercise & one we all get caught up in from time to time.

 

Just concentrate on what you can see & understand.

[chryssy83]

Okay, bluechocolate...I read somewhere that you are never wrong, so maybe you can keep helping.

 

We are supposed to talk about this tonight. He said that he thinks we can work things out because he really wants to and he can be honest about it. How should his relationship with her change? Before I asked that they not see each other in person unless I am there. She won't meet me, he says.

 

Should I just ask him what he thinks we should do and sit back and listen? If it isn't acceptable to me, should I just walk at that point? It seems like he would be more likely to follow a plan he comes up with--like a kid. Is it wrong if I don't make suggestions?

 

If he comes up with a workable solution, is the relationship doomed if I feel the need to ask him if he's staying within the boundaries we have set up?

[bluechocolate]

Before I asked that they not see each other in person unless I am there. She won't meet me, he says.

She won't meet you & yet he continues to see her & presumably still wants too. Like I said, he's already made his choice. And that is that his relationship with her is more important to his relationship with you.

 

If he can't understand what is wrong with this situation then at best he's a fool & at worst he's keeping his options open with both of you.

 

I know you're looking for a way to salvage this relationship, but in reality that power has been taken away from you. He has it now.

 

If it isn't acceptable to me, should I just walk at that point?

 

Of course.

 

If he maintains that it's OK for him to continue meeting this girl alone, a girl who won't meet you & in reality wants him back, then I'm sorry to say this - I don't see what there is to salvage. Unless you like being with a fool and/or taking the stop-gap position.

 

If he comes up with a workable solution, is the relationship doomed if I feel the need to ask him if he's staying within the boundaries we have set up?

 

Doomed - what you describe above is a relationship without trust. Is that where you want to be?

[nicki]

Blue Chocolate, excellent advice: "Concentrate on what you can see and understand."

 

So often we think if we can get inside someone's head, then we can fix the situation. We focus on them and what they are doing, not on ourselves and our choices. Your advice is solid, concrete, and gets one thinking about what action to take.

 

I've been in this same situation. I think the mistake in my thinking at the time was that the situation would change. Once I realized it wasn't changing, I asked myself "What now?" and knew that I had the power to accept it as is, put boundaries in place, or leave. (I ended up leaving.)

 

Why doesn't this guy care about how you feel? Your requests are reasonable. You deserve to be the number one woman in his life. Do you want a boyfriend who lies, disregards your feelings and leads another woman on?

 

Remember, you have choices here. If things stay the same, what action will you take?

[chryssy83]

Thank you, Nicki! I think that we identified those three options the other night. Staying the way things are might have worked a long time ago, if he had been completely honest with me about things. Now it's not really an option.

 

We decided that we would put more specific boundaries in place because we are in love and this is the only real issue in the relationship (albeit a big one). We have set time aside to really hash things out and find a solution. Does anyone have advice on the types of boundaries that might work?

[witabix]

Here is my two cents.

 

I too have a gf who has a male friend, I have explained in great detail why I am concerned about it to her.

 

We set boundaries.

 

She offered to let me know whenever he contacted her. I insisted that the next time they meet I will be there.

 

Clear, or so I thought.

 

He contacted her on Xmas morning, requesting to see her over the Xmas period.

 

I spent Xmas day at her parents and Xmas evening at her sisters. Monday came and went spent together, Tuesday night arrived. I was told late on Tuesday night of the contact and request to see her.

 

So the boundaries, IMO, had already been crossed. There had been contact that I was unaware of for three days.

 

I pointed this out. She asked me if I wanted to meet him. I refused. The boundaries we set had been removed. I did not offer a "tell me when you feel like it" situation.

 

I reset the boundaries. I want to know straight away when there is contact, text message is fine. She may meet him whenever she wants, I want to know prior to the meeting.

 

I see this boundary setting as an unworkable situation. Maybe I am just crap at it.

 

I am no more comfortable with this situation. It is getting worse, not better, and those boundaries have not helped.

 

I would advocate walking out, unless you want to spend the time to see if your bf can abide by the 'rules'.

 

Be careful how much rope you pay out. Be aware of the emotional effect on you, how much are you prepared to expend on this issue.

[nicki]

My ex didn't follow the boundaries either. He was supposed to let me know whenever his ex contacted him. He let me know three weeks later, and only when I busted him on it...It was a breach of our agreement. His word meant nothing. Bigger problem than the contact with the ex.

 

After he broke his word twice, I left. So watch out and make sure your boyfriend follows the guidelines. Trust, but validate he is doing what he says.

 

If it were me, I'd ask for passwords to email, full access to his phone anytime. That way I could validate that what he is saying is true.

 

I'd also write down what you both agree to. Then any future disagreement is about the breaking of your agreement.

 

good luck. I'm hopeful for you, but please be careful here. As someone already said, you need to watch your emotional state. Make sure you feel okay, or bail.

[Art_Critic]

If it were me, I'd ask for passwords to email, full access to his phone anytime. That way I could validate that what he is saying is true.

 

Any relationship that you have to validate that kind of info at any given time isn't worth being in at all

[nicki]

No, not that kind of access all the time. Just during the time of rebuilding trust.

[Art_Critic]

I did say at any given time..

 

If you have to give up your privacy.. passwords.. cell phone.. to regain trust it isn't worth it.

[nicki]

He who has nothing to hide, hides nothing.

 

Of course, I don't think this is appropriate under normal circumstances. But, if trust was broken, it could help the injured party regain trust in someone's word.

 

It is a matter of course for many when healing from affairs.

 

For me, though, it's not worth it. Without trust, I'm out the door.

[RainyDayWoman]

well, you already know you hate ultimatums...

 

i think the fact that you are even a position to consider one is a huge indicator of what you're dealing with.

 

i wouldn't put up with it. there's no reason for him to be seeing her, especially when you both know she wants to be with him.

 

the ultimatum shouldn't even have to be presented...he should be thinking on his own "what is more important..this "friendship" with my ex or my relationship with my girlfriend?"

 

good luck...