Does he want more than just sex?

[Gebidozo]

9 hours ago, Runninggirl said:

We’ve already had sex so I’m not sure there’s a nice way to “go back”, only hoping he wants to do other things with me as well.

 

Of course there is a nice way to go back.

Tell him nicely, “I have feelings for you but I don’t like it that you’re still living with your ex-GF and our meetings seem to depend on your relationship with her, whatever it is now. It’s strange and inappropriate. I would like to continue going out with you and getting to know you better, but let’s hold off sex until you move out and we’re free to make our own schedule”.

9 hours ago, Runninggirl said:

he has clearly stated before that he doesn’t want to end things on bad terms with his ex, because she’s very jealous and controls his whereabouts.

What if she continues to be very jealous and control his whereabouts 5 years from now? It’s his ex, she is in no position to be jealous, and controlling a person’s whereabouts is something that she shouldn’t have been doing even when they were together. Is she abusive? Has she threatened him? Whatever the case may be, he needs to disengage from her completely before he pursues a relationship with you.

Edited May 10, 2024 by Gebidozo

[Runninggirl]

Here's the update. He just left. He texted me last night that he was excited to see me and he would come by around 9 if that was ok. I suggested we would have breakfast together, and he loved the idea. 

To my surprise he arrived with flowers, which was a nice gesture. I had made a really nice breakfast that he complimented several times, and we sat there for a good hour eating and talking. He pretty quickly brought up his exes controlling behavior, how she had used the phones location to find out where he was and who I was, checking if he had liked any of my photos on instagram etc. He said he had no reason to feel bad about it, but still felt guilty because of her reaction, but that he didnt want to not live his life for two months while they figured out the house selling. 

He also made a point saying that its only because it gets so awkward he cares, and that in the end of the day he's not doing anything wrong, if she knows she knows, he's just trying to avoid it. 

Then he suggested we could play a game which we did for a good while. He kissed me every now and then and told me how nice it was to see me. We had sex - I know a lot of people think this is wrong, but also felt weird to not do it when we both wanted to. 

After he was still very loving, kissing me, giving me compliments. He also said he wish we could be together every day, but that was during sex. I figured I would get some answers based off how he acted after. I was a bit worried he would just leave after, but he said "okay, now we can focus better on the game :D" and we went back and played for another two hours until he was leaving to go pick up his parents.

He left pretty abruptly, because we finished the game first so I guess he didnt have that much time. The whole time I really got the feeling he was serious about me, before he left he also said it was really nice to meet me in the middle of day finally, and that he had been looking forward to this all week. 

But then he hugged me and left, and I was left stunned with "wtf no kiss?" which was strange. Trying to not read too much into it. 

He texted me ten minutes after leaving "That was great, wow!", which gave me a bit of a bootycall feeling. I texted him back that it was nice to see him, he texted me back again "Very much! - Always is" .

[Gebidozo]

I’m sure he has feelings for you. But why don’t you guys wait until he moves out and is no longer controlled by his ex? 

How long will it take him to finalize those house issues?

Can’t he move out for a while? Can’t his ex move out? Stay at a friend’s house, with family, in a hotel?

I don’t understand why they are still living together. It’s not a good sign.

[stillafool]

1 hour ago, Runninggirl said:

We had sex - I know a lot of people think this is wrong, but also felt weird to not do it when we both wanted to. 

No people don't think you having sex is wrong.  It's just that you've said you want a relationship and you barely know this man who is still living with a woman he's calling his ex.  Doesn't sound like a good candidate for what you are seeking.  It still sounds like you're just hooking up, but if that's working for you don't complain.

[Alpacalia]

Agree with @stillafool.

You've got no idea if he is still romantically involved with his ex (if she's his ex). And yes. It does just seem like a hookup. 

People can and do enjoy the other person they're having sex with even when it's just sex for them still.

Sounds like he enjoys your company alongside the sex but don't think it goes deeper than that at this stage, if at all.

 

[Lotsgoingon]

Hey, you gotta speak up!

But then he hugged me and left, and I was left stunned with "wtf no kiss?" 

Stop him and say, in real time, "I want a kiss."

Trust me: you do NOT get points with guys by just quietly going along with them. Especially a guy like this who has sent mixed signals. How people say goodbye is extremely important--and potentially revealing. When I was young, I dated people who I had mixed feelings about and yeah, I could turn on the romance and affection and presence (especially when I knew they were unhappy about previous behavior). And then on the way out, it was like I flipped a switch and turned off all that romance.

The abrupt cold goodbye meant the performance of romantic me was over. Which mean I wasn't really being myself with the person. I had turned up the romance deliberately and as a result, I didn't have any romance left as I walked out. 

All you're doing by giving this guy a pass is prolonging misery. Now he knows what to do. You express upset, he just needs to turn on the romance for a night and all is forgotten. But you want someone who doesn't have to perform romance. 

BTW: flowers mean nothing! Zero. Zip. That's like formulaic romantic gesture #1. Requires zero thought or creativity and means nothing about someone's capacity to be a good partner. 

 

[FredEire]

2 hours ago, Runninggirl said:

Here's the update. He just left. He texted me last night that he was excited to see me and he would come by around 9 if that was ok. I suggested we would have breakfast together, and he loved the idea. 

To my surprise he arrived with flowers, which was a nice gesture. I had made a really nice breakfast that he complimented several times, and we sat there for a good hour eating and talking. He pretty quickly brought up his exes controlling behavior, how she had used the phones location to find out where he was and who I was, checking if he had liked any of my photos on instagram etc. He said he had no reason to feel bad about it, but still felt guilty because of her reaction, but that he didnt want to not live his life for two months while they figured out the house selling. 

He also made a point saying that its only because it gets so awkward he cares, and that in the end of the day he's not doing anything wrong, if she knows she knows, he's just trying to avoid it. 

Then he suggested we could play a game which we did for a good while. He kissed me every now and then and told me how nice it was to see me. We had sex - I know a lot of people think this is wrong, but also felt weird to not do it when we both wanted to. 

After he was still very loving, kissing me, giving me compliments. He also said he wish we could be together every day, but that was during sex. I figured I would get some answers based off how he acted after. I was a bit worried he would just leave after, but he said "okay, now we can focus better on the game :D" and we went back and played for another two hours until he was leaving to go pick up his parents.

He left pretty abruptly, because we finished the game first so I guess he didnt have that much time. The whole time I really got the feeling he was serious about me, before he left he also said it was really nice to meet me in the middle of day finally, and that he had been looking forward to this all week. 

But then he hugged me and left, and I was left stunned with "wtf no kiss?" which was strange. Trying to not read too much into it. 

He texted me ten minutes after leaving "That was great, wow!", which gave me a bit of a bootycall feeling. I texted him back that it was nice to see him, he texted me back again "Very much! - Always is" .

That's nice, I'm glad you had a good time with him.

However there wasn't much open conversation here about what you both want, instead you were still trying to read his mind and left hung up and overthinking about him not kissing you goodbye.

I suggest you make an effort to clear things up before you keep tying yourself up in emotional knots.

[NuevoYorko]

There's nothing wrong with what you are doing, UNLESS you happen to be throwing yourself under a bus.   

Most of us who are looking for a relationship that's beyond the sexual chemistry would not be having sex with this person under these circumstances.  So we would not do it IF we were in a place where we wanted a longterm, multifaceted relationship.

You've been around here, you know this.  Even if he wasn't living with his ex and under her control to some extent - the fact that he's not even through to the other side of a breakup of a long relationship makes him a bad candidate for a new relationship right now.  

So if you're going to feel badly if this does not develop into "more" than what it is right now,  you might want to take a look at it.   Of course everyone here believes that you really WANT more, since you literally titled your thread "Does he want more than just sex?"   And you're thinking about why he doesn't kiss you goodbye etc.  So that's were WE are coming from.

If having an intensely enjoyable sex buddy with no strings right now is great for you -  there is absolutely nothing inherently wrong with doing just that.   

[FredEire]

23 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

There's nothing wrong with what you are doing, UNLESS you happen to be throwing yourself under a bus.   

Most of us who are looking for a relationship that's beyond the sexual chemistry would not be having sex with this person under these circumstances.  So we would not do it IF we were in a place where we wanted a longterm, multifaceted relationship.

You've been around here, you know this.  Even if he wasn't living with his ex and under her control to some extent - the fact that he's not even through to the other side of a breakup of a long relationship makes him a bad candidate for a new relationship right now.  

So if you're going to feel badly if this does not develop into "more" than what it is right now,  you might want to take a look at it.   Of course everyone here believes that you really WANT more, since you literally titled your thread "Does he want more than just sex?"   And you're thinking about why he doesn't kiss you goodbye etc.  So that's were WE are coming from.

If having an intensely enjoyable sex buddy with no strings right now is great for you -  there is absolutely nothing inherently wrong with doing just that.   

Totally agree. If you're happy with a sex buddy then all good there isn't really a problem here because it seems clear that he at least wants that.

But if you want anything more don't emotionally wreck yourself. Communicate clearly instead of mind reading or playing mind games hoping you'll make him show his hand, it won't work and will just end badly for you.

Either he'll become pissed off at your subliminals or you'll have a hard landing when you realise he just wanted a sex buddy all along after seeing eachother for months.

It seems to be a very common pattern in relationships that people feel the other should "just know" how they feel and end up getting the complete wrong end of the stick and eventually pay the price for it.

Edited May 11, 2024 by FredEire

[NuevoYorko]

1 minute ago, FredEire said:

Either he'll become pissed off at your subliminals

OP - please do not dismiss this.  People who are "in their head" and looking for clues, or trying to give clues, trying to figure things out in a complex way rather than responding to exactly what is happening ... are, frankly,  exhausting.  Even just a regular friend who has these qualities is exhausting.  People will start to fade away because they can never really know what's going on with somebody who is living in the world of "subliminals."   

[FredEire]

1 minute ago, NuevoYorko said:

OP - please do not dismiss this.  People who are "in their head" and looking for clues, or trying to give clues, trying to figure things out in a complex way rather than responding to exactly what is happening ... are, frankly,  exhausting.  Even just a regular friend who has these qualities is exhausting.  People will start to fade away because they can never really know what's going on with somebody who is living in the world of "subliminals."   

Absolutely, I've unfortunately been on some bad dates where I've realised we were completely talking at cross purposes because of some agenda or other that my date had beforehand, followed by angry accusations that "You ignored me" or "You said X which means you think X about me". No I didn't, I was just confused by your erratic and frustrating behaviour and couldn't read your mind.

I think the kiss thing is a good example of the kind of trap not to fall into. Who knows why he didn't kiss you, it could be he realised he had morning breath and had run out of tictacs and was embarrassed about it. Don't get into projecting grand meanings onto him that aren't there, it will come across and all it will do is push him away.

[Alpacalia]

When I first started dating my ex, the first night we were together, when he left to say goodbye, he squeezed me so hard and lifted me up in his arms and I could tell that he was so sincere in his intentions and that was confirmed when he called me on his way home (30 minutes after he left) and then 3 more times thereafter.  Best first date ever!

Kidding about the first date part. I didn't think to myself, wow, this guy is 150% on board. I just felt like an extension of our connection.  

If you're trying to gauge small gestures, don't. You cannot. But the takeaway is, don't concern yourself with what you think he's acting like. You can't peg anyone early on. If you want to drive this forward then at some point you're going to have to pay attention to his feelings, desires, intentions for what he wants with you. Not your interpretations of how you think he feels about you.

I'm not sure why he is bringing up this ex's controlling behavior and surveillance tactics. I am also not sure why it is so awkward that he feels the need to keep things low key for two months until they sort out the house selling. I understand not wanting drama, but it seems like this is a bit extreme.  Please be cautious moving forward and have an open and honest conversation with him before you get in to deep.

[ExpatInItaly]

There is no way I would continue this arrangement while he is still living with his ex. It's already too messy between them and him having to see only at certain times so as not to upset her. That would not fly for me, personally. There is far too much risk for drama. 

4 hours ago, Runninggirl said:

which gave me a bit of a bootycall feeling

That's basically what this is. There's nothing wrong with that, but please keep your expectations in check and remember that you have no idea what is going on behind closed doors with his ex. He might still be sleeping with her, too. 

[BaileyB]

OMG - why are you trying to date a man who is living with his ex… a woman who is tracking his movements, at that. 

He wants to “live his life” while still very much entangled with another woman… she’s not ok with that, and frankly I am surprised that you have agreed to this yourself…

If you like the sex, proceed. But, I certainly wouldn’t be expecting anything more from this man…

Edited May 11, 2024 by BaileyB

[Acacia98]

5 hours ago, Runninggirl said:

He pretty quickly brought up his exes controlling behavior, how she had used the phones location to find out where he was and who I was, checking if he had liked any of my photos on instagram etc. He said he had no reason to feel bad about it, but still felt guilty because of her reaction, but that he didnt want to not live his life for two months while they figured out the house selling. 

He also made a point saying that its only because it gets so awkward he cares, and that in the end of the day he's not doing anything wrong, if she knows she knows, he's just trying to avoid it. 

The thing that bugs me is this: assuming he's being honest with you, he could have postponed reaching out to you until he had completely disentangled himself from his ex. Then he would have been free to come and go as he pleased and her shadow wouldn't be hanging over y'all.

What he's doing now is framing her and her behavior as a problem for you both. It's like you're being recruited to take his side in some ongoing conflict. And you don't even really know him at this point. Assuming she is indeed jealous and he's somewhat scared of her, he shouldn't be dragging you into a situation you do not understand. Her jealousy is her problem, and potentially his. It shouldn't be yours. Ideally, if you're the sort of person who handles your business and ties up any loose ends before getting involved with a new person, you should be focusing on men who do the same. Being mismatched in this area is not a good sign. And I anticipate you're going to experience some boundary issues with this guy.

Your worries about whether he genuinely likes you are misplaced. I think you should be more focused on whether he is the right person for you. 

[stillafool]

7 minutes ago, Acacia98 said:

The thing that bugs me is this: assuming he's being honest with you, he could have postponed reaching out to you until he had completely disentangled himself from his ex. Then he would have been free to come and go as he pleased and her shadow wouldn't be hanging over y'all.

 

On 5/8/2024 at 1:33 PM, Runninggirl said:

Then recently an acquaintance of me that I slept with once five years ago, split up with his girlfriend that he was living with. I think possibly in february, but Im not entirely sure the date. He texted me, and suddenly sent a long message basically saying that if I was single and wanted to, he would love to see me sometime, but that i would have to wait until he had moved out, in order to keep the peace between them as they were still friends. 

 

He did offer to wait until he moved out before seeing OP, she didn't want that but should have agreed with him and waited.  He knew she was hot for him and he went for it.

[Acacia98]

8 minutes ago, stillafool said:

 

He did offer to wait until he moved out before seeing OP, she didn't want that but should have agreed with him and waited.  He knew she was hot for him and he went for it.

Now, of course, you're right: OP has agency and should have said no and waited. But I think that the fact that this dude put her in this dubious grey zone in the first place tells us something about his personality, and personally, I don't like what it says.

You see, the difference between him and OP is that he knows what his ex is like. OP is completely oblivious and floating on cloud 9. All this stuff about his ex being jealous and tracking his whereabouts, which, interestingly, he only mentions when they have already had sex, may just be the tip of the iceberg. She has no idea what she's getting herself into.

And this is all assuming that what he says about his ex is true.

[stillafool]

On 5/8/2024 at 1:33 PM, Runninggirl said:

 We ended up slipping out early and went to my place and had sex. It wasn't much to brag about, he wasn't in a condition to really perform much, but was still very eager. The second we were home he went for it, was very rough and "dirty", and also a lot of dirty talk. Which I think must be a bad sign that he is "too" comfortable with me to really be into me romantically? 

 

 

On 5/10/2024 at 8:14 AM, Runninggirl said:

I worry about that he mainly sees me as sex as he sometimes can be very sexual on texts as well (but most often just sweet texts). 
 

He asked me about my weekend plans yesterday. I said I was just going to stay in and have a chill evening. He made a comment and I said that if he wanted to he could come over for dinner. 
 

He didn’t give a definitive answer. 20 min later he texted me and said “I could make Saturday work but it would have to be around noon”.

Im not sure if this is a bootycall for him or if it’s a good sign that he suggest to meet up in the middle of the day. He never called it a date. 
 

So we’re meeting tomorrow at noon, I’m not sure what we’re going to do. Im considering making brunch and suggesting we go for a walk if the weather is nice.

Here you say you worry that he only sees you as sex.  Yet when he asked about your weekend plans you invite him over for dinner, he didn't answer, but suggested to meet up at noon.  Instead of accepting noon and going out somewhere, you suggest breakfast at your place.  This doesn't sound like a woman who is worried that a man is just after sex, it sounds like a woman who is looking for sex and putting herself and the man in a position to get it.

On 5/10/2024 at 9:54 AM, Runninggirl said:

i agree at the house was not the best. We’ve already had sex so I’m not sure there’s a nice way to “go back”, only hoping he wants to do other things with me as well.

He didn’t care on Saturday, but he has clearly stated before that he doesn’t want to end things on bad terms with his ex, because she’s very jealous and controls his whereabouts.

Very iffy imo. So I don’t know.

im going to meet him tomorrow, but I’m hoping there’s something I can do to make sure he sees me as something serious and not just a rebound or sex. 
 

You keep saying this while still going after the sex.  There is something you can do and that is to stop having sex.

On 5/10/2024 at 11:17 AM, Runninggirl said:

We met through a mutual friend about five years ago in the summer and had one date/one night stand. We had dinner and drinks on his terrace at sunset, it was super warm and we really connected. Ended up having sex. 

 

 

6 hours ago, Runninggirl said:

Here's the update. He just left. He texted me last night that he was excited to see me and he would come by around 9 if that was ok. I suggested we would have breakfast together, and he loved the idea. 

 

 We had sex - I know a lot of people think this is wrong, but also felt weird to not do it when we both wanted to. 

 

Yes, Runninggirl this is about sex for him as well as you.  You won't speak up and tell him what you want or expect.  You just continue to put give in and put yourself in a position to have sex with him.  Why wouldn't he think this were all about sex.

[stillafool]

25 minutes ago, stillafool said:

 

Here you say you worry that he only sees you as sex.  Yet when he asked about your weekend plans you invite him over for dinner, he didn't answer, but suggested to meet up at noon.  Instead of accepting noon and going out somewhere, you suggest breakfast at your place.  This doesn't sound like a woman who is worried that a man is just after sex, it sounds like a woman who is looking for sex and putting herself and the man in a position to get it.

You keep saying this while still going after the sex.  There is something you can do and that is to stop having sex.

 

Yes, Runninggirl this is about sex for him as well as you.  You won't speak up and tell him what you want or expect. He hasn't even taken you on a real date yet.  You just continue to put out and give in and put yourself in a position to have sex with him.  Why wouldn't he think this were all about sex.

 

[stillafool]

33 minutes ago, Acacia98 said:

Now, of course, you're right: OP has agency and should have said no and waited. But I think that the fact that this dude put her in this dubious grey zone in the first place tells us something about his personality, and personally, I don't like what it says.

You see, the difference between him and OP is that he knows what his ex is like. OP is completely oblivious and floating on cloud 9. All this stuff about his ex being jealous and tracking his whereabouts, which, interestingly, he only mentions when they have already had sex, may just be the tip of the iceberg. She has no idea what she's getting herself into.

And this is all assuming that what he says about his ex is true.

You're right.  He may not be broken up at all and his ex maybe violently jealous.  That is all the more reason why OP should have waited until he at least moved out before getting involved and had sex with him multiple times.  She's a grown woman with a lot of dating experience under her belt.  She knows better by now.

[Runninggirl]

 

He said the new apartment should be ready by june 25. A little over a month. I pointed out that it was a long time, but he disagreed.

Im very sure of what I want in a partner at this stage, and not down for something casual.

I also need to get to know him, and see if he does have the qualities that I require and that we are on the same pages about important things. one thing that age has really changed for me is that I now think way more with my head than my heart. Before I was all feels, but now Im trying to remind me that what you want is equally important - if not more - to who you want.

He’s very easy to talk to, and very direct. So luckily I think with time it will be easy to figure things out. I dont want to bring up too big of topics when Im not sure myself if this is something I would like to pursue. Right now I just want to get to know him. But if I think it could be something I just have to «man up» and be very direct.

I do think its a bit too early to bring it up. The only thing he’s said about what he wants, is that he’s looking forward to us being able to hang out more frequently.

I dont expect things to escalate any more until he’s moved out, but I also dont want to feel like Im «waiting» (I’m not, but still a bit in my head I guess) for someone who was never into something more than just sex.

I will absolutely try to always have the courage to just speak freely.

The timing of him reaching out to me matters to me depending on why he did it. If he consciously is just after sex - I think its stupid and he should have just waited. Not worth it. If he thought «might be something there that I would like to explore», then I understand why he reached out too - to not «miss the boat». he didnt know if I was single at the time, and asked me if I was before asking us to meet.

I agree that I can’t trust that he’s giving me the full story. But he did tell me about his ex tracking his movement before we met up the first time. He said that was the reason he wanted to wait, because she was very controlling.

But Im 100% sure that they are broken up. Ive had it confirmed from several other outside sources, and he also stated it in a group setting to someone else.

I really appreciate all the input.

He sent me a text message a bit later again today giving me some praise for a run I did, and after that he had two perfect weekends in a row because of me. I ended the conversation after that.

I think there’s a lot of red flags, but I dont want to dismiss him completely. This story is very focused on one part, but there’s definitely a lot of things pointing to that he is a very good man as well. We have a lot of interests and values in common, we’re seemingly at the same stage of things, and agree on a lot of the «little things», like drinking culture (neither of us enjoy alcohol that much in the daily life), food, travel, living space etc.

But I think for now Im going to let him take the lead to suggest meeting up again, and reaching out for contact. If he suggest another home meet up Ill explain that Im not comfortable continuing with that as long as he has those issues at home. But that Im down for meeting for coffee, going for a walk, a run or a drive.

[NuevoYorko]

Bottom line:  If you want a relationship that is "MORE THAN SEX" than stop behaving like you're interested in a having sex without the "MORE" part.   

It really is that simple.   

 

[Alpacalia]

22 minutes ago, Runninggirl said:

I do think its a bit too early to bring it up.

Too soon for what? He’s getting ready to move and already has a lot going on. He did say he wants to hang out more frequently when he’s settled in, right?

There’s your answer right there.

This isn't a dating situation where 1 person often makes the mistake of potential long term relationship expectations early on. You're involved with someone that still lives with their ex and you've inserted yourself as someone for physical purposes. The easiest thing for him is to tell you what he's told you and hope you don't get attached but you appear to be really emotionally invested. 

You've met up for sex twice and I'm sorry to say but this thing with his ex what guy wouldn't want to have sex while he was waiting for his new place? Sorry for the bluntness but a dating situation with proper boundaries you wouldn't be in this situation.

Anyway, yeah, I think you are smart to slow this down and let him settle his personal life.

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, Runninggirl said:

Im very sure of what I want in a partner at this stage, and not down for something casual.

And yet, that exactly what you are doing when you have sex on the first date with a man who has so recently broken up with his ex that they still have dinner reservations next week…

Kidding, about the reservations. But seriously, I can’t honestly believe that you have any aspirations that this will become a serious relationship. This whole thing screams casual relationship - rebound relationship - to me.

Edited May 11, 2024 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

On 5/8/2024 at 12:33 PM, Runninggirl said:

communicator, he felt so safe, and really gave me my self worth back. For the first time I could set boundaries

Respectfully, I don’t see that you have set any boundaries whatsoever…

What’s more, how exactly do you set boundaries when you are not actually in a relationship with the man? 

Edited May 11, 2024 by BaileyB