Engagement Ring - Buyers Remorse!

[1HappyGoLucky]

4 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

And he has you pay 50% of everything including his daughter expenses...fully knowing you don't have his type of financial security. Does that 50% of everything keeps you from building savings for yourself?

I am older, maybe that will explain my feelings on this, if my bf asked me to pay part of my engagement ring I would be offended especially if I have been contributing more of my income in our lives AND been raising his kid as my own for 8 years. The man has a chip on his shoulder and he needs to address that. You also have a low self-esteem you need to address. 

I don't think he's ready for marriage. I suggest you both ask your deposit back and address the elephant in the room.

Hey Gaeta,

thanks for your upfront and honest assessment. Chatting here has certainly given me some food for thought, particularly on the front that he may not be ready for marriage.

Time to address the 🐘

[BaileyB]

I feel like there is more information needed here before we jump to conclusions.

Maybe I’ve missed something, but as I understand it you have lived with this man for the past five years. Do you rent? Does he own the home? Is your name on the title of the home? I ask because I’m kind of shocked that you’ve lived together that long and you don’t have a prenup/cohabitation agreement/legal agreement between you. A lawyer will better advise you, but where I live you would be considered common law spouses and as such - you would have rights related to the home that you share. 

I would most definitely not marry this man without a cohabitation agreement - particularly if there is a child involved and particularly if either of you has assets that they would like to protect. That would be my first order of business…

Then, household expenses should be divided between you based on your income. Ie - if he has more income and because he has a child, he should be paying more of the household expenses. That is only fair and it has nothing to do with whether you are trying to take advantage of him financially - if the household expenses are not divided equitably based on your income, he is actually taking advantage of you. In my home, my partner pays for all of his son’s expenses. I have been generous in many ways, but I don’t not pay for his son’s expenses and costs are otherwise divided fairly equitably. 

I’m also a little concerned that he has decided to take off work for six months and live off the interest of his investments. What was a reason for this “sabbatical?” Is his intention to return to work after that period of time? I don’t know how old he is, but that wouldn’t fly with me… My partner has a friend who has retired very early and is day trading and living off the interest of his investments - it has not been a wise decision for him in terms of his satisfaction with life and his mental health (in my personal opinion). The relationship has been lost because we have nothing in common - he is pursuing his own interest and he’s very self-absorbed. Hopefully that is not the case for your partner. For me, I would have little interest in being in a relationship with a man who is essentially “retired” when I’m still working and trying to establish my financial security. That’s a very one sided relationship - not in the way that you are worried about…

Edited June 4 by BaileyB

[Lotsgoingon]

If you are not comfortable speaking up for yourself--and exactly what you want--in this situation, then you aren't ready to be married.

Marriage will require you to speak up multiple times a day for years and years. Going through the motions--doing things you don't want to--will only lead to resent and emotional shut down and numbness.  He asked you for $1k and you gave half. Doing that over time will kill your sex desire for him. You'll be so angry inside.

You really got to speak up for what you want---if you don't, you are undermining the relationship. It's that simple. 

It's OK for a woman to contribute to (or even pay for) the engagement ring--totally fine--if the woman feels the guy is worth it and she accepts that he can't afford to pay right now.

I recently talked to a 30 year-old woman I'm close to. Her finance is trying to enter a creative field, a field it takes about 5 years to really see success. She is funding him through this period, fully! And she is totally cool with it, no hidden resentment or weirdness.

Only offer to pay what you feel good about paying. Not one cent more. It's not about the money. It's about what feels right. 

 

Edited June 4 by Lotsgoingon

[1HappyGoLucky]

5 hours ago, BaileyB said:

I feel like there is more information needed here before we jump to conclusions.

Maybe I’ve missed something, but as I understand it you have lived with this man for the past five years. Do you rent? Does he own the home? Is your name on the title of the home? I ask because I’m kind of shocked that you’ve lived together that long and you don’t have a prenup/cohabitation agreement/legal agreement between you. A lawyer will better advise you, but where I live you would be considered common law spouses and as such - you would have rights related to the home that you share. 

I would most definitely not marry this man without a cohabitation agreement - particularly if there is a child involved and particularly if either of you has assets that they would like to protect. That would be my first order of business…

Then, household expenses should be divided between you based on your income. Ie - if he has more income and because he has a child, he should be paying more of the household expenses. That is only fair and it has nothing to do with whether you are trying to take advantage of him financially - if the household expenses are not divided equitably based on your income, he is actually taking advantage of you. In my home, my partner pays for all of his son’s expenses. I have been generous in many ways, but I don’t not pay for his son’s expenses and costs are otherwise divided fairly equitably. 

I’m also a little concerned that he has decided to take off work for six months and live off the interest of his investments. What was a reason for this “sabbatical?” Is his intention to return to work after that period of time? I don’t know how old he is, but that wouldn’t fly with me… My partner has a friend who has retired very early and is day trading and living off the interest of his investments - it has not been a wise decision for him in terms of his satisfaction with life and his mental health (in my personal opinion). The relationship has been lost because we have nothing in common - he is pursuing his own interest and he’s very self-absorbed. Hopefully that is not the case for your partner. For me, I would have little interest in being in a relationship with a man who is essentially “retired” when I’m still working and trying to establish my financial security. That’s a very one sided relationship - not in the way that you are worried about…

We are currently renting together, but his side gig is in property development and we have lived in his homes and moved around based on that. Whilst I was living in his homes, I helped to cover a small amount of mortgage costs, however, with our last move, he made so much that he reimbursed me the last lot of payments.

He decided to take about 6 months off of work after that, he wasn't enjoying his, then current role. He is only 8 years older than me, but he wants to retire early, and I don't think it's on the cards for me. He has struggled with mental health issues recently and is really not using this time to enjoy.

I'm based in Australia and cohabitation agreements aren't really the done thing here, but I can certainly see the benefit!

I believe supporting each other both financially and emotionally is so important, which is why, from the beginning I broached the relationship with a 50/50 attitude and the fact that his daughter has a different mother doesn't change my relationship with her. I'm here to support her too.

I did feel like once we were married, our efforts would be combined anyway, but I'm starting to question that now, because of the responsibility he has to ensure his daughters future. I worry that in old age, if he passes before me I will be left with nothing.

Is that unfair? 🤔

[Gaeta]

17 minutes ago, 1HappyGoLucky said:

Is that unfair? 🤔

I understand wanting to leave something to our children. My property is almost paid off so when I pass I want it to go to my daughters. I met a new man and we've been dating 2 years now, when we move in together we will take life insurance on each other so we're not left in financial trouble if one of us suddenly dies. When we join our lives together (marriage or  not) there has to be a safety net established and a Will done at the notary.

[basil67]

31 minutes ago, 1HappyGoLucky said:

I did feel like once we were married, our efforts would be combined anyway, but I'm starting to question that now, because of the responsibility he has to ensure his daughters future. I worry that in old age, if he passes before me I will be left with nothing.

Is that unfair? 🤔

Not at all.  My husband and I have significant assets, and more will come to me when my parents pass.   If, heaven forbid, my husband dies and I re-partner, I will make a co-habitation agreement that all my assets pass to my children.  

Also, if all his assets go to his children, you should not be helping him with his mortgage.  Instead, pay a contribution for living with him....perhaps an agreed amount of 'rent'.   

Edited June 5 by basil67

[basil67]

I also want to agree that having a partner left with nothing if I died would certainly be problematic.  To avoid this, I'd probably only re-match with someone who also had assets.

[1HappyGoLucky]

32 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Not at all.  My husband and I have significant assets, and more will come to me when my parents pass.   If, heaven forbid, my husband dies and I re-partner, I will make a co-habitation agreement that all my assets pass to my children.  

Also, if all his assets go to his children, you should not be helping him with his mortgage.  Instead, pay a contribution for living with him....perhaps an agreed amount of 'rent'.   

It seems to defeat the purpose of working together for a better future, I have helped to raise his daughter from the age of 3, when I was in my 20's; but I understand the reality of wanting to protect one's children.

I feel I've been a bit naive and will certainly take this onboard and look at ways we can all protect our futures, should the worst happen.

Thank you for your advice Basil67 ❤️

[basil67]

44 minutes ago, 1HappyGoLucky said:

It seems to defeat the purpose of working together for a better future, I have helped to raise his daughter from the age of 3, when I was in my 20's; but I understand the reality of wanting to protect one's children.

I feel I've been a bit naive and will certainly take this onboard and look at ways we can all protect our futures, should the worst happen.

Thank you for your advice Basil67 ❤️

You're welcome

One thing about working together for a better future, I was remiss in not giving the context that I'm old, with adult children.  I see working together to build a future as something younger people do.  Where as when they are old, it's more like the coming together of two people who've already got assets and their own families. 

I really think you need to speak with a lawyer and propose a cohabitation agreement/pre nup.  Because you're much younger than me, you need to make sure that you aren't working for years, helping raise his children and still walking away with nothing if he dies or you split up.   Speak with the lawyer about different options before you speak with your partner, and present the idea as protection for both of you.   And speak with your partner about how he imagines your future as a couple

Edited June 5 by basil67

[1HappyGoLucky]

6 minutes ago, basil67 said:

You're welcome

One thing about working together for a better future, I was remiss in not giving the context that I'm old, with adult children.  I see working together to build a future as something younger people do.  Where as when they are old, it's more like the coming together of two people who've already got assets and their own families. 

I really think you need to speak with a lawyer and propose a cohabitation agreement/pre nup.  Because you're much younger than me, you need to make sure that you aren't working for years, helping raise his children and still walking away with nothing if he dies or you split up.   Speak with the lawyer about different options before you speak with your partner, and present the idea as protection for both of you.   And speak with your partner about how he imagines your future as a couple

It sounds like its definitely important to get some legal advice, even if it's just to put our minds at ease and be on the same page with our futures, particularly because we would like to grow our family. I never imagined it would be so complicated, but I'm happy to address it now, before we tie the knot!

Thanks so much Basil67, I really appreciate the advice ☺️ 

[BaileyB]

3 hours ago, basil67 said:

Not at all.  My husband and I have significant assets, and more will come to me when my parents pass.   If, heaven forbid, my husband dies and I re-partner, I will make a co-habitation agreement that all my assets pass to my children. 

And basil lives in Australia. 

We have a similar agreement. We both have sizeable assets and we have a cohabitation agreement that clearly states a certain amount will go to his son. Similarly, a certain amount of my assets will got to my nieces and nephew. The rest (including the mortgage insurance/life insurance) will go to each other so that everyone has what they need. 

Edited June 5 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

3 hours ago, basil67 said:

I also want to agree that having a partner left with nothing if I died would certainly be problematic.  To avoid this, I'd probably only re-match with someone who also had assets.

Agreed. I don’t want to be responsible for another person’s finances, I would want someone who is financially responsible and has a similar pension/retirement plan and has a certain amount of financial security and freedom. 

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, basil67 said:

Because you're much younger than me, you need to make sure that you aren't working for years, helping raise his children and still walking away with nothing if he dies or you split up.  

Absolutely. 

He needs to be responsible because he has a child and he will want to protect her security and be sure that some of his assets to go to his child. You may not have as many assets or your own child at this time, but you have invested a lot in this relationship - both financially and as it relates to the care and time you have given to support your partner and his child. I too would hate for you to do the right and honourable thing - to give of yourself for the sake of your partner and his child - only to find that you have lost that investment if you were ever to separate.
 

It’s lovely that you want to build a strong partnership and he is very blessed to have found someone who loves and supports his child the way that you do… That’s all well and good but not at your own expense. You are working to grow your own assets and you need to protect your financial security too -

If he is a good partner, he will support you in doing that. 

Edited June 5 by BaileyB

[1HappyGoLucky]

1 hour ago, BaileyB said:

Agreed. I don’t want to be responsible for another person’s finances, I would want someone who is financially responsible and has a similar pension/retirement plan and has a certain amount of financial security and freedom. 

When I met my partner he was on the verge of bankruptcy, after his divorce he had significant credit card loans, through fighting through the legal system to be a part of his daughters life. 

I am financially responsible, have stock market investments and have set up a family trust with property investment. However, he is certainly ahead of me now and has been able to ride the property boom. 

I actually do want to be mutually responsible for our finances and future. I want to contribute, build something together and support each other should one of us not be able to work. 

I might have the wrong idea but I thought marriage was about being stronger together and supporting each other through thick and thin. 

I have a master's degree and am entering into the money making years of my career, where he is looking to slow down.

Having said that, I also don't want to take away anything from him or his daughter.

I hope a contract/legal advice can help us to find common ground.

[basil67]

20 minutes ago, 1HappyGoLucky said:

I might have the wrong idea but I thought marriage was about being stronger together and supporting each other through thick and thin. 

Do you feel that your relationship doesn't have this vibe?   That he may not be there for you through thick and thin?

Make sure to do your homework on his history too.  How did he end up nearly bankrupt with all those credit card loans?   I can understand if say, she took the car and he needed cash to buy a new one so he could get to work....but please make sure he's financially responsible.   

On what grounds was his wife fighting giving him access?

It's just that I know a person who complained about their previous divorce and I felt terribly bad for them.   They later on they remarried a friend and I saw a completely different side to them.  Someone who thought that the kids having more than 3 sets of clothes was frivolous, and refused to get broken stuff fixed.  And who complained about being taken to the cleaners by my friend when she divorced him despite the fact that even his own lawyers were telling him that she was entitled to far more than she was asking for. 

To be clear, I'm NOT suggesting he's being untruthful.  And there certainly are people who get hard done by and he could well be one of them, but please make sure he's fiscally responsible, and that there weren't good reasons for his wife fighting him having custody.

Edited June 5 by basil67

[basil67]

Adding to the above, it does not sit well with me that he wants to buy you "a ring you'll be proud of" but then asks you to contribute.  He shouldn't buy something he can't comfortably afford......and this brings me full circle to the near bankruptcy and credit card debt

[Acacia98]

18 hours ago, 1HappyGoLucky said:

I sometimes feel pressure to show him that I don't want to be 'kept' it's something he mentions on occasion. He has been through a divorce and still feels the sting of the cost from that (His ex wife refused to work full time and took more than 50% of what he had, not a mistake he wants to make again). I want to show him that our relationship is about mutual support and not one-sided. That pressure sometimes weighs heavy, particularly trying to keep up with someone that has a much larger expendable income.

When you say both of you contribute 50%, does that mean that you are essentially also paying for part of his daughter's expenses? Because if you are, it sounds like you're approaching things with greater generosity of spirit than he is. That would make yours a slightly unbalanced relationship if you had similar incomes. But he earns way more than you do, so that difference in approaches would make for significant imbalance in your relationship. 

I agree with the advice that a prenup is in order and that you need to have your own lawyer looking out for your interests, i.e., if, indeed, you are ready to get married. As others have pointed out, there are is an elephant in the room that you both need to deal with first.

Edited June 5 by Acacia98

[1HappyGoLucky]

2 hours ago, basil67 said:

Do you feel that your relationship doesn't have this vibe?   That he may not be there for you through thick and thin?

Make sure to do your homework on his history too.  How did he end up nearly bankrupt with all those credit card loans?   I can understand if say, she took the car and he needed cash to buy a new one so he could get to work....but please make sure he's financially responsible.   

On what grounds was his wife fighting giving him access?

It's just that I know a person who complained about their previous divorce and I felt terribly bad for them.   They later on they remarried a friend and I saw a completely different side to them.  Someone who thought that the kids having more than 3 sets of clothes was frivolous, and refused to get broken stuff fixed.  And who complained about being taken to the cleaners by my friend when she divorced him despite the fact that even his own lawyers were telling him that she was entitled to far more than she was asking for. 

To be clear, I'm NOT suggesting he's being untruthful.  And there certainly are people who get hard done by and he could well be one of them, but please make sure he's fiscally responsible, and that there weren't good reasons for his wife fighting him having custody.

The debt was for legal bills fighting for his daughter. Over 8 years of being with him I have not seen him be financially irresponsible. 

My understanding is that his daughter was withheld by his ex so she could gain a greater amount in the divorce settlement. 

I would hope we are there for each other through everything, to me, that's a big part of what marriage is about, supporting each other to be better together 💖 

[1HappyGoLucky]

1 hour ago, Acacia98 said:

When you say both of you contribute 50%, does that mean that you are essentially also paying for part of his daughter's expenses? Because if you are, it sounds like you're approaching things with greater generosity of spirit than he is. That would make yours a slightly unbalanced relationship if you had similar incomes. But he earns way more than you do, so that difference in approaches would make for significant imbalance in your relationship. 

I agree with the advice that a prenup is in order and that you need to have your own lawyer looking out for your interests, i.e., if, indeed, you are ready to get married. As others have pointed out, there are is an elephant in the room that you both need to deal with first.

There is a bit of a power imbalance in our relationship, and I do feel sometimes that I am giving a bit too much, but have to remember he has a daughter to consider.

We definitely need to address all of this before moving forward. From my perspective, he is the person I want to grow old with, have a child with, and I love his daughter just as much as I love him 💖 

This forum chat has helped so much and has given me the confidence to address any elephants and hopefully move forward with some legal advice and all going well a beautiful wedding 💞 

[BaileyB]

3 hours ago, 1HappyGoLucky said:

My understanding is that his daughter was withheld by his ex so she could gain a greater amount in the divorce settlement.

I don’t think that’s how it works in custody agreement/divorce settlements - if anything, that would reflect poorly on the mother, not benefit her.

Although, I do understand the financial cost of divorce. The legal bills are significant, particularly if the divorce is complicated or contested. My partner had to buy her out of the home. He then had to pay spousal and child support for years. His child support just ended - he had a lawyer file to officially change his divorce decree and send an email to his ex-wife and that bill was $1500 - to officially terminate his child support because his son graduated from college! He actually borrowed from his mortgage to pay his bills… because it was his only option. Divorce is not cheap - and while he complains about how it has set him back financially he has been a responsible and generous partner to me. 

Edited June 5 by BaileyB

[Gaeta]

3 hours ago, 1HappyGoLucky said:

he is the person I want to grow old with, have a child with

If you are  young enough to have children together then that 50/50 arrangement is unfair. Even if men nowadays are more proactive in domestic lives it is still us women that take maternity leave, work less hours to be present to the family, still us with the mental load, resulting with still us with a smaller retirement plan.

[S2B]

How many days out of the month does he have his daughter?

does he spend time with her or is a great part of that responsibility on you?

Who plans her activities and makes effort to carry those out?

[stillafool]

I've never heard of anyone who was asked to pay$1,000 towards an engagement ring, but gave $2,500 and then turns around and asks for it all back. I can see him turning sour over this.

[S2B]

I don’t care what the history is - him having enough money to not work for six months and asking you to contribute is despicable! 
 

he doesn’t value you enough to marry him!!

[1HappyGoLucky]

8 hours ago, S2B said:

How many days out of the month does he have his daughter?

does he spend time with her or is a great part of that responsibility on you?

Who plans her activities and makes effort to carry those out?

He is a fantastic father and plans so many activities for his daughter and us as a family. Holidays, cultural experiences and many other activities.

He takes a great amount of responsibility for her. When she was younger she was a real daddy's girl, now that she is getting older, she prefers to hang out with me.

She lives at home 12 days a month