Mixed signals? delusion? stupid? lol

[Gulf-Delta]

35 minutes ago, basil67 said:

You do realise that there's a whole lot of space between "could be interested" and "I'm so repellant and terrible"?   For starters, she could also see you as being a friend or acquaintance

nah. even friends and acquaintances text, talk, hang out, etc. and i cant even get that. im less than an acquaintance, jesus thats depressing. i hadnt even thought of that.

Edited June 6 by Gulf-Delta

[Gebidozo]

3 hours ago, Gulf-Delta said:

im not ROMANTICALLY interested in her either.

I’m very confused. If you’re not interested in her romantically, then why do you care whether she is interested in you romantically? 

3 hours ago, Gulf-Delta said:

she has surface level things that tell my brain "this person has potential". but i dont know anything about her. other than she could be a potential partner. she's a maybe, based on what i know so far

Oh… Then I understand even less why you’re so worried. There are so many such “maybes” that, if one of them kept avoiding one on one dates like that girl, I’d move on without hesitation. I’d pursue something with someone I feel a stronger, more immediate attraction to. I thought that was your case.

4 hours ago, Gulf-Delta said:

as for you just getting dates and "romantic insterest" instantly, i find that very bizarre, but thats just different lives i guess.

Maybe. I’ve never had problems having romantic feelings or receiving them from another person. The real problems always start later. But even if such occurrences are rarer in your life, I would still recommend being patient and pursuing someone who has a more pronounced interest in you.

[Gulf-Delta]

23 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

I’m very confused. If you’re not interested in her romantically, then why do you care whether she is interested in you romantically? 

Oh… Then I understand even less why you’re so worried. There are so many such “maybes” that, if one of them kept avoiding one on one dates like that girl, I’d move on without hesitation. I’d pursue something with someone I feel a stronger, more immediate attraction to. I thought that was your case.

Maybe. I’ve never had problems having romantic feelings or receiving them from another person. The real problems always start later. But even if such occurrences are rarer in your life, I would still recommend being patient and pursuing someone who has a more pronounced interest in you.

i feel insanely attracted to her. but attraction doesnt mean you want to marry them lol. i dont know what she feels, and my attraction to her is just attraction. but im also looking for a wife, im not looking strictly for sex. i "care" because i want to know if there could be something more there. what kind of connection could there be, what are her interests, what is her mind like? im not saying she is wife material or anything, but she COULD be...i wouldnt know unless we got to know each other. its entirely possible we go out and fall in love, or go out and hate each other. or anything in between. but id like to find out

 

there is no patience or anything for a guy like me. i dont have women flocking to me or falling into my lap like you might. no one in my life has ever had an actual genuine connection or attraction to me. for me at this point, its about finding someone i like, and trying to cultivate a connection. i dont have the luxury of being patient and waiting for someone to like me right away, thats never gonna happen. guys like me have to kindle and build something

Edited June 7 by Gulf-Delta

[basil67]

4 hours ago, Gulf-Delta said:

nah. even friends and acquaintances text, talk, hang out, etc. and i cant even get that. im less than an acquaintance, jesus thats depressing. i hadnt even thought of that.

I would argue that while friends text, talk and hang out, acquaintances do not. 

An acquaintance is someone who's name you know and you can have a conversation with if you happen to run into each other.   You might even have each other's phone numbers for the occasional contact you may need to make with them.   As you presumably see her at church gatherings and presumably say "hi' or perhaps discuss the topic, then you're not less than an acquaintance.

[Gebidozo]

22 minutes ago, Gulf-Delta said:

i feel insanely attracted to her.

Dude, you’re confusing me more and more. If you feel insanely attracted to her, then these are, indeed, romantic feelings. So let’s establish once and for all that you do have romantic feelings for her. 

 

22 minutes ago, Gulf-Delta said:

but attraction doesnt mean you want to marry them lol.

Who said anything about marriage?🤔 It’s way too early to talk about that.

 

22 minutes ago, Gulf-Delta said:

i dont know what she feels

Whatever she feels, it’s not “insane attraction”. People who feel insane attraction do everything in their power to convert it to actions as soon as possible. So let’s establish another fact: she probably doesn’t feel for you what you feel for her. In which case I think the best course of action for you would be to move on.

22 minutes ago, Gulf-Delta said:

there is no patience or anything for a guy like me. i dont have women flocking to me or falling into my lap like you might. no one in my life has ever had an actual genuine connection or attraction to me. for me at this point, its about finding someone i like, and trying to cultivate a connection. i dont have the luxury of being patient and waiting for someone to like me right away, thats never gonna happen. guys like me have to kindle and build something

This is a very self-deprecating statement that shows that you lack confidence. You sound sad and desperate to settle for someone, anyone, even a person who isn’t attracted to you that much. I don’t think that is a healthy mindset, and it certainly isn’t attractive to women. Women fall in love with self-sufficient, confident men who’re looking for true love rather than just being lonely and needing a wife. 

Patience is absolutely imperative, for you and for me. Remember, in the end you only need to find one right person. It doesn't matter whether you find such a person after years of crazy romance or after years of being alone.

[Gulf-Delta]

15 minutes ago, basil67 said:

I would argue that while friends text, talk and hang out, acquaintances do not. 

An acquaintance is someone who's name you know and you can have a conversation with if you happen to run into each other.   You might even have each other's phone numbers for the occasional contact you may need to make with them.   As you presumably see her at church gatherings and presumably say "hi' or perhaps discuss the topic, then you're not less than an acquaintance.

yeah, this is where i am. i was just hoping i had made a bette rimpression than that that could grow into something more.

[Gulf-Delta]

58 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

Dude, you’re confusing me more and more. If you feel insanely attracted to her, then these are, indeed, romantic feelings. So let’s establish once and for all that you do have romantic feelings for her. 

 

Who said anything about marriage?🤔 It’s way too early to talk about that.

 

Whatever she feels, it’s not “insane attraction”. People who feel insane attraction do everything in their power to convert it to actions as soon as possible. So let’s establish another fact: she probably doesn’t feel for you what you feel for her. In which case I think the best course of action for you would be to move on.

This is a very self-deprecating statement that shows that you lack confidence. You sound sad and desperate to settle for someone, anyone, even a person who isn’t attracted to you that much. I don’t think that is a healthy mindset, and it certainly isn’t attractive to women. Women fall in love with self-sufficient, confident men who’re looking for true love rather than just being lonely and needing a wife. 

Patience is absolutely imperative, for you and for me. Remember, in the end you only need to find one right person. It doesn't matter whether you find such a person after years of crazy romance or after years of being alone.

i disagree. i dont classify initial attraction as romantic feelings. if i walk by a pretty girl on the street, im not feeling romantic feelings for her. again, i think this is a semantic difference, maybe a cultural one. i dont know enough about this girl to have any romantic feelings. i find her extremely attractive. that isnt romantic feelings. romantic feelings are serious, like love.

 

you said something about marriage with the "romantic feelings" talk. i havent established any romantic feelings, neither her nor i have any kind of familiarity even close to that.

 

i know she doesnt feel attraction. that was established in my first post on the subject. you seem to have this very label-based, binary idea of relationships and itneracting with people that i honestly cant wrap my mind around. you think people need to be insanely attracted, instantly to date, or that moderate interest doesnt exist, or that interest translate to romantic feelings. like i said before, this is a very bizarre view on relationships ive never actually ever encountered anywhere. in your previous post you said everyone is a stranger to everyone, yet you also say both parties need to have instant romantic feelings to get a date with someone? attraction is a spectral thing.

we've already established that i did move on. as much as i like her, she turned me down, that was the end of it.

i dont lack confidence, im just self aware. ive made a lot of positive life changes, and when i asked her out, i was feeling probably the most confident ive ever been in my life. i felt even more confident when she offered me her number and we were texting. confidence is not the issue. im not trying to settle at all. i am looking for true love. but to find it, you have to look for it, identify it and go after it. what, i was supposed to just hope she was gonna make moves on me after knowing me for a total of 10 minutes? what movie world do you live in? lol

 

what i anticipated happening is me asking her out, her thinking "well, he looks ok and seems nice, i wouldnt mind getting to know him better and seeing what happens". that was my mindset on her (but replace looks ok, to looks really beautiful, obviously). i didnt ask to father her children or move into my house, i just wanted to get to know her better and see if there's any potential there. just because she doesnt want to marry me in 30 seconds doesnt mean there isnt "interest" there. as in "he's an interesting guy".

 

my standards are pretty high and uncompromising, so when i found someone who seemed to fit what i was looking for (at least on the surface, wanted to see if it went deeper), i went after it. i didnt know if she was attracted or not, hence the asking her out. us being mutually attracted based on nothing is not a realistic standard for normal or below average people. you say yourself, women are not looking for insane attraction, you now say they are looking for self-sufficiency and confidence. these are PERSONALITY TRAITS, you dont find them in a person instantly. you discover them via conversation and contact with them. what she's supposed to shake my hand and get my name and go "yep, he's a self-sufficent homeowner with a paid off car and well paying job". dude, what lol. interest can be instant, attraction or "romantic feelings" are a built up thing

 

a guy like me has no person. a guy like me has to work for relationships and success in general. no woman is going to be in love (or lust) at first sight with me, they never have in all of my years. i have to rely on my personality and social interactions to BUILD attraction

[basil67]

1 hour ago, Gulf-Delta said:

i disagree. i dont classify initial attraction as romantic feelings. if i walk by a pretty girl on the street, im not feeling romantic feelings for her. again, i think this is a semantic difference, maybe a cultural one. i dont know enough about this girl to have any romantic feelings. i find her extremely attractive. that isnt romantic feelings. romantic feelings are serious, like love.  

At the risk of discovering that I'm also misunderstanding @Gebidozo, I think you're getting caught up in semantics.   I interpreted his question of "romantic feelings" as meaning "If the two of you connect well, are you hoping for romance and to pursue a relationship with her?"  The romantic theme also includes dating.  

1 hour ago, Gulf-Delta said:

there is no patience or anything for a guy like me. i dont have women flocking to me or falling into my lap like you might. no one in my life has ever had an actual genuine connection or attraction to me. for me at this point, its about finding someone i like, and trying to cultivate a connection. i dont have the luxury of being patient and waiting for someone to like me right away, thats never gonna happen. guys like me have to kindle and build something

You were with your first girlfriend for a couple of years.   Did she not have an actual genuine connection with you while you were together?   If not, why did you see yourself as her boyfriend?  

Also if you don't have a lot of options, you may want to think about your 'pretty high and uncompromising' standards.   Are these standards all things which you can match in return?

 

[Gebidozo]

2 hours ago, Gulf-Delta said:

you think people need to be insanely attracted,

I never said that.

You said you were “insanely attracted” to that girl. Your words, not mine.

You keep changing your story, in one post you are insanely attracted to her, in another post you don’t have romantic feelings for her. I don’t know what to tell you here. To me, being “insanely attracted” is having romantic feeling. I don’t understand what exactly you’re trying to argue here.

Bottom line is this, I don’t think that girl is insanely attracted to you, I don’t think she has romantic feelings for you. Maybe I’m wrong. That’s my opinion, for what it’s worth.

[Gebidozo]

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

At the risk of discovering that I'm also misunderstanding @Gebidozo, I think you're getting caught up in semantics.   I interpreted his question of "romantic feelings" as meaning "If the two of you connect well, are you hoping for romance and to pursue a relationship with her?"  The romantic theme also includes dating.  

Quote

Yup, that’s exactly what I meant.

[basil67]

23 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

To me, being “insanely attracted” is having romantic feeling.

I think it doesn't have a strict meaning.  To me, 'insanely attracted' could also just be getting really hot in your underpants for them but know there's no future.  

To quote someone from a long time ago who felt that way about me "I just want to love you for a night".  

Edited June 7 by basil67

[Gebidozo]

46 minutes ago, basil67 said:

I think it doesn't have a strict meaning.  To me, 'insanely attracted' could also just be getting really hot in your underpants for them but know there's no future.  

To quote someone from a long time ago who felt that way about me "I just want to love you for a night".  

Oh, of course that can happen too, but I assumed that wasn’t the OP’s case, since his “insane attraction” seemed to go with a desire to date and eventually even marry that girl. To me, this is exactly what constitutes romantic feelings, an attraction coupled with the wish to have a relationship with the person.

The OP says  he’s insanely attracted to that girl and sees her as a wife candidate, but in the next post he says he has no romantic feelings for her. That just feels weird and contradictory to me.

[Gulf-Delta]

8 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

Oh, of course that can happen too, but I assumed that wasn’t the OP’s case, since his “insane attraction” seemed to go with a desire to date and eventually even marry that girl. To me, this is exactly what constitutes romantic feelings, an attraction coupled with the wish to have a relationship with the person.

The OP says  he’s insanely attracted to that girl and sees her as a wife candidate, but in the next post he says he has no romantic feelings for her. That just feels weird and contradictory to me.

I dobt equate interest or surface level attraction with romantic feelings. For me, romantic feelings entail connection, emotion, etc

It seems everyone in the thread, myself included, was wrong. She just texted me asking if I was free to meet up for coffee on Saturday. This is a whole new can of confusion however, but that's mostly stuff about my own issues and self esteem. 

 

11 hours ago, basil67 said:

You were with your first girlfriend for a couple of years.   Did she not have an actual genuine connection with you while you were together?   If not, why did you see yourself as her boyfriend?  

Also if you don't have a lot of options, you may want to think about your 'pretty high and uncompromising' standards.   Are these standards all things which you can match in return?

 

We connected, but my ex didn't love me. I loved her deeply, but she was using me to get out of the bad situation she was in when I met her. For me, I fell in love hard and fast. Not sure what was going on in her head at the time

As for my high standards, I deserve the best. I'm never gonna sell myself short of what I deserve. I'm an ideal partner for what every woman says they want. If I can "match" a woman's high standards all depends. If their standards include a mansion or a bunch of cars, no, I can't do that. But as far as internal things, I'm a catch, I'm just not too attractive. But I can't do anything about that

[basil67]

5 hours ago, Gulf-Delta said:

I deserve the best. I'm never gonna sell myself short of what I deserve.

Nobody "deserves" anything.  This actually sounds arrogant and entitled.  You may want to reflect a bit on how you present and the reason you've been single for so long.

Anyway, you're meeting for coffee.  At least she's not avoiding you....that's a good start.

Out of curiosity, what's the age difference?  Based on your posting history, you're about 33???   But you refer to her as a 'girl'.  Is she particularly young or is it just a turn of phrase?   The younger she is, the more naive she may be about your intentions

Edited June 7 by basil67

[Gulf-Delta]

17 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Nobody "deserves" anything.  This actually sounds arrogant and entitled.  You may want to reflect a bit on how you present and the reason you've been single for so long.

Anyway, you're meeting for coffee.  At least she's not avoiding you....that's a good start.

Out of curiosity, what's the age difference?  Based on your posting history, you're about 33???   But you refer to her as a 'girl'.  Is she particularly young or is it just a turn of phrase?   The younger she is, the more naive she may be about your intentions

its not arrogance or entitlement. im not single because of something with my personality or myself. honestly kind of a rude assertion tbh. im not an attractive guy, and i spent a lot of time being alone for a long time. theres a lot of reasons for this i wont go into. but its not because im "arrogant and entitled".if someone i know heard you describe me as "arrogant and entitled" they would laugh in your face, tbh.

ive reflected plenty, this is how i came to the conclusion that im a king and shouldnt settle. im not brad pitt, but who i actually AM (not what i look like) is fine.

the age difference is 5 years-ish. im 34, she just turned 29. i call women girls all the time. its not an age thing, its just a general term that flows easier than "female" or "woman". im not sure how she could be naive, that....seems like a big assumption, i think my intentions were pretty clear.

 

your post has a pessimistic vibe to it

Edited June 7 by Gulf-Delta

[SurfCity]

51 minutes ago, Gulf-Delta said:

the age difference is 5 years-ish. im 34, she just turned 29.

Do you look your age or do you look older? One of her first questions was how old you were which makes me think that she thought that you were 40-ish. 

What are your high standards?

Anyway, she's asked you for coffee, so tell her yes and try to go into it with a positive mindset. My guess is she views it as a platonic fellowship as church go-ers, but it's possible that she's romantically interested in you. Good luck. 

[Gulf-Delta]

4 minutes ago, SurfCity said:

Do you look your age or do you look older? One of her first questions was how old you were which makes me think that she thought that you were 40-ish. 

What are your high standards?

Anyway, she's asked you for coffee, so tell her yes and try to go into it with a positive mindset. My guess is she views it as a platonic fellowship as church go-ers, but it's possible that she's romantically interested in you. Good luck. 

no, i actually look pretty young for my age. when i tell people im 34, theyre kind of shocked. etiher wa, she continued contacting and talking after i told her, so whatever hse thought, it must not be a big deal deal

 

she could think its platonic, but idk. i kind of dont think i left anything to suggest my interest was platonic..."going out" is colloquial for date, at least here. i mean i made it clear my intent was getting to know her better. im not sure either of us has expectations on what could grow into or not

Edited June 7 by Gulf-Delta

[basil67]

1 hour ago, Gulf-Delta said:

1 hour ago, Gulf-Delta said:

its not arrogance or entitlement. im not single because of something with my personality or myself. honestly kind of a rude assertion tbh. im not an attractive guy, and i spent a lot of time being alone for a long time. theres a lot of reasons for this i wont go into. but its not because im "arrogant and entitled".if someone i know heard you describe me as "arrogant and entitled" they would laugh in your face, tbh.

 

It's the word deserve which sits wrong with me - it's one thing if you have a job and there's an agreement where if you reach x achievements, you deserve a raise.  But relationships are about good choice, mutual connection and a huge dollop of good luck.  And sometimes things can go wrong for a person who is doing the absolute best they can.  

 

Edited June 8 by basil67

[Gulf-Delta]

4 minutes ago, basil67 said:

It's the word deserve which sits wrong with me - it's one thing if you have a job and there's an agreement where if you reach x achievements, you deserve a raise.  But relationships are about good choice, mutual connection and a huge dollop of good luck.  And sometimes things can go wrong for a person who is doing the absolute best they can.  

 

i guess this is another semantic mixup. im not saying i deserve it like im owed it by someone

 

i mean, i am a good man, with a good heart and a sound mind. im a human being. i deserve to be treated such

[basil67]

2 minutes ago, Gulf-Delta said:

i guess this is another semantic mixup. im not saying i deserve it like im owed it by someone

 

i mean, i am a good man, with a good heart and a sound mind. im a human being. i deserve to be treated such  I will not accept a relationship where I don't feel respected and loved.

ah, yes - semantics.  And at the risk of digging down further, I've edited the above.   

 

[Gulf-Delta]

Just now, basil67 said:

ah, yes - semantics.  And at the risk of digging down further, I've edited the above.   

 

exactly. its taken me a long time to be able to admit and believe that about myself. that is why this coffee date and this girl are such an intense topic for me

 

im a child of abuse who grew into an adult with horrid self esteem issues. it is only recently that i have been able to find some confidence about myself and be even remotely secure in my skin

 

so for the first time ever, i find a girl i am interested in, and i am confident enough to do something about it. so of course i want it to go well. ive been attracted to girls in the past and have either been too chicken to do anything about it, or i get shot down. even "successful" relationships were unhealthy and more a matter of convenience...so when things are going well this time, and i intiated that, i want it to go right

[Gebidozo]

8 hours ago, Gulf-Delta said:

As for my high standards, I deserve the best. I'm never gonna sell myself short of what I deserve. I'm an ideal partner for what every woman says they want. If I can "match" a woman's high standards all depends. If their standards include a mansion or a bunch of cars, no, I can't do that. But as far as internal things, I'm a catch, I'm just not too attractive. But I can't do anything about that

Nobody deserves anything. And calling yourself an “ideal partner” is just unbelievable delusion. Nobody is ideal for anyone, least of all “for what every woman says they want”. 

Then a sentence later you say you aren’t too attractive. First you’re ideal (!), which by definition includes being very attractive, then you’re suddenly not even too attractive. Do you understand how crazy this sounds?

Such frenzied leaps from extreme self-praise to equally extreme self-denigration are a textbook characteristic of deep insecurity.

I highly recommend getting some therapy before you start your next relationship.

Edited June 8 by Gebidozo

[Gulf-Delta]

4 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

Nobody deserves anything. And calling yourself an “ideal partner” is just unbelievable delusion. Nobody is ideal for anyone, least of all “for what every woman says they want”. 

Then a sentence later you say you aren’t too attractive. First you’re ideal (!), which by definition includes being very attractive, then you’re suddenly not even too attractive. Do you understand how crazy this sounds?

Such frenzied leaps from extreme self-praise to equally extreme self-denigration are a textbook characteristic of deep insecurity.

I highly recommend getting some therapy before you start your next relationship.

i think youre conflating 2 things...aain

 

there;s not any frenzied leaps here. i can praise myself and be aware that im not physically attractive

[Gebidozo]

1 hour ago, Gulf-Delta said:

i mean, i am a good man, with a good heart and a sound mind. im a human being. i deserve to be treated such

Please don’t boast. I mean, do it here on the forum if it makes you feel better, but please don’t say to that girl you’re going out with that you’re “a good man with a good heart and a sound mind”. It sounds like a salesman advertising his product. It’s unattractive. 

Also, please try to drop this whole “I deserve” mindset. One of the biggest delusions in matters of heart is to believe that you deserve somebody or something. Nobody deserves anything, period. If you keep believing you deserve stuff just because you’re a “good man” (whatever that many mean to you), you’re going to end up in a lot of pain.

[Gulf-Delta]

2 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

Please don’t boast. I mean, do it here on the forum if it makes you feel better, but please don’t say to that girl you’re going out with that you’re “a good man with a good heart and a sound mind”. It sounds like a salesman advertising his product. It’s unattractive. 

Also, please try to drop this whole “I deserve” mindset. One of the biggest delusions in matters of heart is to believe that you deserve somebody or something. Nobody deserves anything, period. If you keep believing you deserve stuff just because you’re a “good man” (whatever that many mean to you), you’re going to end up in a lot of pain.

man, i thought i was pessimistic. the internet is just fully poison, wtf