Mixed signals? delusion? stupid? lol

[mark clemson]

19 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

Oh, but a typical bar for young people is hardly a place where serious attraction leading to deep feelings and a serious relationship would take place.

Which means that, on my own “turf”, among women who do find me attractive, my looks are really just one of the factors, definitely not among the important ones.

Does this make any sense?🤔 

As usual it's complicated - some people start serious relationships in bars - I've known a few. Some don't. But they are starting them other places - maybe college/grad school, maybe at work, maybe at weekend activities. In those other places, looks will help.

For many folks (but obviously not all) serious relationships can start in their 20's or even teens. Mine did (20's) and there are certainly plenty of couples out there that met in their 20's and stayed together, had kids, etc.

Maybe the women who find you attractive aren't in it for looks. That's fine. You are also (unless I'm mistaken) a middle aged man, dating middle aged women. People change and different things become more important. I do believe generally people become less fussy WRT looks as they get older (and become less good looking, all other things being equal, themselves).

Even so, lets say that you were very attractive. Do you really think it's NOT true that MORE women would be showing interest in you? I think you'd have more opportunities where the women come to you. Maybe your specific personality/who you are means you'd reject those women, I don't know.

I know that is my experience WRT to having a nice haircut and clothes or not bothering it makes a real difference. It's only initial conversations/light flirting (which will lead nowhere as I'm married) BUT those are interactions that could in theory become a starting point for something more. Which is exactly my point - having more women interested in you and/or willing to "give you a chance" due to looks is going to give you a genuine statistical edge when it comes to forming relationships.

[Gulf-Delta]

Just now, basil67 said:

I'm sorry it didn't work out.   

But kindly, you got yourself way over invested in this and this is why you're crashing so hard now.   Having confidence in something is a great trait, and without confidence there is little chance of success.  But confidence needs to be tempered with reality.  And reality is that even though things might look good, it doesn't mean it will always work out.  And this is true for all parts of life: from applying a great job, to bidding on a house at auction, to dating and even to marriage.   The only time we can have a huge amount of confidence is when there are no other people involved in the decision.  So manage your expectations so that you won't fall in a heap if it doesn't work out.  

Anyone who's ever been brave enough to ask another person on a date has been disappointed in one or some or many outcomes.  Heck, I'm a woman and have asked men out and been disappointed.  But all we can do is pick up, move on.  And again, manage our expectations in the beginning.

In this case, many of us were telling you that what you saw as signs of interest could be misconstrued, but you were determined otherwise.  May I suggest looking back at what we wrote and review it with fresh eyes?  Reflect on why you couldn't see what we were seeing.  Think about what you can learn from this and use in the future.

Lastly, I'm going to preempt something which could happen:  If you go to bible study and find a different woman you're interested in, please think twice.  You don't want to be that person who tries to date different people in the same group.  Same rule for any other interest you have where there are others involved.  And yes, I've been that person....I cringe looking back at it now.

i cant really explain the reasons i was invested. theres a lot of trauma and stuff involved in that....i dont really look for women a lot. after being outcast from women for large chunks of my life, i stopped looking. sre, i ave been physcially attracted to lots and lots of women. but it is extremely rare that i get actualy REALLY attracted to someone. not just their looks but them as a person. in 99% of my interactions with women, i might be interested somehow, but there is always something i find where i dont really pursue it. there can be a good connection with someone not attractive, or recently i met a girl who was a knockout but there was just a feeling it wouldnt work logistically.

 

its very rare personally, for me, that i find someone who meets all these criteria. to find someone who really just sticks out. my church is crawling with beautiful women. but this one, she just stuck out. its one of those things i cant explain, i was just immediately sucked in. she just had the complete package. the draw was so strong that i was actually compelled to ask her out. something ive never done before, the pull was that strong. most women ust kind of "blend in" but when i see a woman like this who checks so many boxes, things go off like "maybe this could be something, its worth checking out"

I didnt invest in anything...my brain and heart and gut all worked against me almost. i didnt WANT to be that attracted to someone i just met. that wasnt a goal, nor was it because of a specific interaction or anything. there were just these alarm bells that went of saying "This person is special". and so the more we spoke, the deeper and more attracted to her i got.

 

it is...hard to "manage expectations" when for the first time in your life, it actually looks like a victory might be coming your way. if you were walking in a desert and it looked like it was gonna rain, would you "manage expectations" or would you be thrilled and optimitistic?

 

picking up and moving on gets hard and harder and harder with every rejection. its like i have a life bar and everytime i get rejected or dumped or turned down, it gets moreand more depleted. we dont have forever on this planet. every day that passes we have less and less time

 

i dont think i ever misconstrued interest or not. in fact, i was pretty dubious of the whole thing from the get go and had doubts all the way from the first time i asked her out and she was seemingly on the fence about it. now i may have been in denial, or maybe some misconstruing, or just wanting to be positive. but doubts were there all along, the only time there wasnt was from friday afternoon when she asked me out, to this morning when she told me she didnt feel any connection.

 

im horrified for what is next. because i know my attraction to her isnt gonna stop. shes not just going to be ugly overnight now. shes not gonna stop being sweet and kind. all of those things that drew me to her are going to still be there, and what's worse, i have to pretend like im not hurt by any of this, and i still have to pretend everything is cool and that we can be friends.

 

see, youre saying if i become interested in someone else at the church, to not bother? that seems really stupid (no offense) or counterintuitive for when you like someone lol. the other thing is, she told me there are lots of single girls in the church and to be open to them, and that a lot of them are there looking for someone. if im not supposed to look for someone at social gatherings, where AM i supposed to look for someone?

 

i just hate that i lose AGAIN. not because of something i necessarily did or said (or maybe so, no idea), but because of someone else's very limited percpetion of me. first dates are awkward and kind of weird, she said and did awkward things too, but i was at least willing to see her again to see if anything would smooth out. i mean, we didnt have to get married, but unless something really hellacious went down, i'd give her 3 chances...i get one. it seems so unfair and brutal

[mark clemson]

23 hours ago, basil67 said:

Though I would hazard a guess that a number of those who prioritise immediate visual attraction of a partner probably have a harder time dating than those who don't.   Simply because the pool is smaller and there's arguably more competition.

Certainly. I think women certainly have a wide variety of tastes and pursue a wide variety of what you might call "reproductive strategies". And so some may chase the good looking and/or "alpha" males, while no doubt others are thinking "why bother with all that competition" and so don't look for that.

I think this dovetails with my overall point - there's more competition for the good looking guys. Probably also for the social skilled ones, and probably the financially secure ones (all other things being equal) and/or those who have a recognizable and enduring social role such as first responders.

[mark clemson]

10 minutes ago, Gulf-Delta said:

i just hate that i lose AGAIN. ...  it seems so unfair and brutal

Consider reading "A Billion Wicked Thoughts" - specifically the chapters that deal with female attraction. If you can understand and "operationalize" the info in there, you might be better able to attract women.

Ultimately women follow the cues of their brain/biology, just as men do. However there's wide variance in that, and particularly for women. That means (and it's good news) that there are a variety of ways to be attractive to women. If you can hone in on and emphasize a few of those things, it might go a long way.

Geb above mentioned a guy who looks like a chimp somewhat and yet still manages to attract women. That guy understands something and has operationalized it so that he is attractive. It might be body language, the way he dresses, or things he says/aspects of himself that he reveals early on that women find attractive. It probably took him a long time if he's physically not attractive, but he got there.

You are clearly on the "harder road" that men take when they're not "naturals" at being attractive - however that doesn't mean you won't get there eventually.

Edited June 9 by mark clemson

[Gulf-Delta]

5 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

Consider reading "A Billion Wicked Thoughts" - specifically the chapters that deal with female attraction. If you can understand and "operationalize" the info in there, you might be better able to attract women.

Ultimately women follow the cues of their brain/biology, just as men do. However there's wide variance in that, and particularly for women. That means (and it's good news) that there are a variety of ways to be attractive to women. If you can hone in on and emphasize a few of those things, it might go a long way.

Geb above mentioned a guy who looks like a chimp somewhat and yet still manages to attract women. That guy understands something and has operationalized it so that he is attractive. It might be body language, the way he dresses, or things he says/aspects of himself that he reveals early on that women find attractive. It probably took him a long time if he's physically not attractive, but he got there.

You are clearly on the "harder road" that men take when they're not "naturals" at being attractive - however that doesn't mean you won't get there eventually.

but i dont want to just attract women. i dont want a harem. its not about tits and ass for me. im looking for someone with a good heart and a good soul too. someone to compliment me. the yin to my yang sort of thing.

 

yesterday i put literally my best self out there. i was loose, i was confident, i did my best with my hair and grooming my beard, i dressed well for it. it wasnt good enough

[basil67]

58 minutes ago, Gulf-Delta said:

it is...hard to "manage expectations" when for the first time in your life, it actually looks like a victory might be coming your way. if you were walking in a desert and it looked like it was gonna rain, would you "manage expectations" or would you be thrilled and optimitistic?

Firstly, it was far too early to be thinking that a "victory" might be coming your way.   These are the kind of thoughts which really aren't wise until you've been properly in a relationship with someone for many months.   

You can be thrilled and optimistic AND manage your expectations.  "This is feeling really good, but it's early days yet".   "We're really enjoying each other's company.  I hope it works out but I must not get ahead of myself"   These are things I've said to myself when dating.  I was saying them to myself when I was very happily a few months into a relationship with my now husband.   It's essential you do this so that you don't come crashing down.

Further, it was way too early to be thinking that 'victory' might be coming your way.   A number of us pointed out flaws in your thinking but you didn't heed our warnings. You were way ahead of yourself and this also contributes to the crush you're feeling now.

58 minutes ago, Gulf-Delta said:

see, youre saying if i become interested in someone else at the church, to not bother? that seems really stupid (no offense) or counterintuitive for when you like someone lol. the other thing is, she told me there are lots of single girls in the church and to be open to them, and that a lot of them are there looking for someone. if im not supposed to look for someone at social gatherings, where AM i supposed to look for someone?

It's not all about what you want. It's about how it looks.  Remember I mentioned the cringe moment in my life? In my teens I was the topic of discussion between boys at a swim club because if I didn't make progress with one, I'd move to the next. 

Now, whether it be church group or a gym, if you try for one girl, then the next, and then the next you'll get a reputation as either desperate or a creeper.  The girls will discuss you behind your back and if they see you getting phone numbers from a new girl, they will tell her your repuation.   You are better off being a friendly guy and letting them approach you.   And if you do approach anyone, do it very sparingly so as to not draw negative attention to yourself.

Edited June 10 by basil67

[basil67]

42 minutes ago, Gulf-Delta said:

yesterday i put literally my best self out there. i was loose, i was confident, i did my best with my hair and grooming my beard, i dressed well for it. it wasnt good enough

Yeah, this isn't enough.  Dressing and grooming well is just a standard expectation.  Loose and confident is good, but they are only two facets of a multi faceted equation.  

There also has to be the right connection, a meeting of the minds, mutual style of humour, and I hate to say it, but each person is looking for an X factor.  And it's never the same thing between two people.  With my husband, it's because he can be very silly in a way which works for me.  But another woman may think he's a fool.  

[basil67]

1 hour ago, mark clemson said:

And so some may chase the good looking and/or "alpha" males, while no doubt others are thinking "why bother with all that competition" and so don't look for that.

Haha, and some (including me) are also thinking "alpha male wanker".  I've heard more than one woman use the phrase as an insult.   

Edited June 10 by basil67

[Gulf-Delta]

1 minute ago, basil67 said:

Firstly, it was far too early to be thinking that a "victory" might be coming your way.   These are the kind of thoughts which really aren't wise until you've been properly in a relationship for many months.

You can be thrilled and optimistic AND manage your expectations.  "This is feeling really good, but it's early days yet".   "We're really enjoying each other's company.  I hope it works out but I need to not get ahead of myself"   These are things I've said to myself when dating.  I was saying them to myself when I was very happily starting a relationship with my now husband.

It's essential you do this so that you don't come crashing down.

It's not all about what you want. It's about how it looks.  Remember I mentioned the cringe moment in my life? In my teens I was the topic of discussion between boys at a swim club because if I didn't make progress with one, I'd move to the next. 

Now, whether it be church group or a gym, if you try for one girl, then the next, and then the next you'll get a reputation as either desperate or a creeper.  The girls will discuss you behind your back and warn new girls coming in.   Heck, I go to a dance club and there's one guy who hits on all the new women.  Everyone (male and female) knows who he is and everyone watches and keeps an eye on new women to make sure they feels safe.  You don't want to be this guy.

You are better off being a friendly guy and letting them approach you. 

i didnt say this was a victory or a sure thing. but it was looking that way. if i can use a sports metaphor, i had points on the board. i could see light in the darkness. just a single raindrop in the desert. large points of my life have been a real battle, and the battle has gotten very intense since 2024 rolled around for lots of reasons. so when good things start happening it doesnt feel like i triumphed, but it felt really good to have footing for once. i did exactly what you are saying here. i was optimistic, but cautious. me and a friend of mine discussed this very thing at great length. i was cuatious, but it didnt ease any pain in the end.

 

am i supposed to forego what i want based on how something looks? i fully get what youre saying, but...then what? as for the approaching me, i gave up on that years ago. thats never going to happen.

 

the thing that burns me, is that yesterday, everything seemed really good. during the date she mentioned she was glad i asked her out and she likes the guy to do the pursuing. she reiterated on thi slater in texts saying she likes the direct approach, i wasnt being too forward, etc. there was a bit of awkwardness at the end (form both of us) once we actually got to the topic of dating and if we wanted to see each other again, but i told her it was fine, we dont need to label anything, i wanna respect her boundaries and comfort level. so all this "i had a great time," "i like the direct approach," "i like guys to pursue," "i prayed before accepting the date"...SHE ASKED ME OUT...and then all the sudden she doesnt feel a connection? i mean...wtf

[NuevoYorko]

1 hour ago, Gulf-Delta said:

i just hate that i lose AGAIN. not because of something i necessarily did or said (or maybe so, no idea), but because of someone else's very limited percpetion of me. first dates are awkward and kind of weird, she said and did awkward things too, but i was at least willing to see her again to see if anything would smooth out. i mean, we didnt have to get married, but unless something really hellacious went down, i'd give her 3 chances...i get one. it seems so unfair and brutal

Whoa.  

First of all, I understand you are feeling bummed out, but hold up a minute.

You did not "lose."  You tried for something you wanted - a chance with this woman.  That is more than 95% ahead of where all the people who do NOT put skin in the game and try ever get.  

Second - you are acting weird.   She is absolutely entitled to not be "feeling it."  No, nothing "hellacious" had to go down, she does not need to give you more chances,  whether you or she was awkward is immaterial.   

She just wasn't feeling it.  That is her prerogative, just like it's yours and always has been to not go out with any and everyone who is not hellacious.   

It's not "unfair" or brutal, it just feels like crap to get rejected.  But you really don't even know this woman so ... you are kind of being overly dramatic, IMO.

[Gebidozo]

2 hours ago, Gulf-Delta said:

im over it, how many more years am i supposed to do this?

Let me try to explain to you why things aren’t working for you, based on your own words:

 

2 hours ago, Gulf-Delta said:

i find a girl i see potential in, and feel strong and confident enough in this attraction to ask her out, and things go really well, and then here i am, back at square one, feeling dejected, hurt, lonliness with no light on the horizon over s*** i cant control

There are several problems here. First, I don’t think you understand the concept of “confidence” correctly. You seem to think that being confident means being sure you’re going to get any girl you find attractive. But actually confidence means going into dating without expectations and fully accepting the possibility of rejection.

You, on the other hand, are projecting a desperate “all or nothing” vibe. This “either I get a wife or I shoot myself” attitude mounts extreme pressure on yourself and on whoever is exposed to it. Women don’t want to feel that they are holding your fate in their hands. They just want to love and to be loved. You’re too entrenched in your own problems and therefore appear emotionally unavailable to women.

Moreover, your apparent lack of humility comes together with its equally unappealing twin brother: self-pity. Because you feel entitled and believe you deserve to get things, you also crash and burn hard when this doesn’t happen. Then, the realization that you actually have no confidence (because there is no true confidence without humility) drives you towards self-pity. Self-pity is extremely unattractive and pushes women (and men) away like few other traits do, because self-pity is actually just the flip side of pride, and pride is absolutely the worst state of mind one could imagine.

You should definitely work on those issues before you attempt to date again. I wish you success, you can do it, but remember that any change starts with yourself, from within.

[basil67]

37 minutes ago, Gulf-Delta said:

i didnt say this was a victory or a sure thing. but it was looking that way. if i can use a sports metaphor, i had points on the board. i could see light in the darkness. just a single raindrop in the desert. large points of my life have been a real battle, and the battle has gotten very intense since 2024 rolled around for lots of reasons. so when good things start happening it doesnt feel like i triumphed, but it felt really good to have footing for once. i did exactly what you are saying here. i was optimistic, but cautious. me and a friend of mine discussed this very thing at great length. i was cuatious, but it didnt ease any pain in the end.

I quoted you as saying "victory" might be coming your way.   It's still too early.   

With your metaphors....I think you've never been in a drought.  Because a single rain drop means nothing if there's no looming dark clouds or rain front on the radar.   And a sun shower won't dampen anything much.   And every point on a board is worth cheering, but seriously, you didn't get a point on the board.  I'd say that two dates and having her keen for a third is like scoring a single goal in the scheme of a whole match.  Those first and second dates are the warm up - not the match.  

 

Quote

am i supposed to forego what i want based on how something looks? i fully get what youre saying, but...then what? as for the approaching me, i gave up on that years ago. thats never going to happen.

Then what?  You spread yourself further.  When's the last time you went to the pub with mates?  Or to someone's 30th birthday event?

Quote

the thing that burns me, is that yesterday, everything seemed really good. during the date she mentioned she was glad i asked her out and she likes the guy to do the pursuing. she reiterated on thi slater in texts saying she likes the direct approach, i wasnt being too forward, etc. there was a bit of awkwardness at the end (form both of us) once we actually got to the topic of dating and if we wanted to see each other again, but i told her it was fine, we dont need to label anything, i wanna respect her boundaries and comfort level. so all this "i had a great time," "i like the direct approach," "i like guys to pursue," "i prayed before accepting the date"...SHE ASKED ME OUT...and then all the sudden she doesnt feel a connection? i mean...wtf

You need to remember that you've been talking with her for a few hours now.  During that time, she's gotten to know you and she's discovered that she's not feeling it.  It's really that simple

Edited June 10 by basil67

[Gulf-Delta]

21 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

Whoa.  

First of all, I understand you are feeling bummed out, but hold up a minute.

You did not "lose."  You tried for something you wanted - a chance with this woman.  That is more than 95% ahead of where all the people who do NOT put skin in the game and try ever get.  

Second - you are acting weird.   She is absolutely entitled to not be "feeling it."  No, nothing "hellacious" had to go down, she does not need to give you more chances,  whether you or she was awkward is immaterial.   

She just wasn't feeling it.  That is her prerogative, just like it's yours and always has been to not go out with any and everyone who is not hellacious.   

It's not "unfair" or brutal, it just feels like crap to get rejected.  But you really don't even know this woman so ... you are kind of being overly dramatic, IMO.

i did lose. i am here, alone. in my house. like always. do you know what its like to have a life where there are no sounds in your home unless you make them? do you understand loneliness. like REALLY understand it? do you understand the feeling of recognzing this, taking the initiative and making the choice to do something about it, and still being empty handed in the same place you were before?

second, im not being weird. i never said she wasnt entitled to her feelings, i was talking about my personal bar and etiquitte. i would by default consider a first date to be not great, thats to be anticipated. FOR ME, i would give a 2nd or 3rd date unless something crazy bad went down. in my own opinion, i dont think a first date is really a valid gauge for if there's a connection or not. she said plenty of weird and oddball or awkward things, it is weird TO ME, to not see someone again because they were awkward or somethin weird happened. in my opinion, people's standards are too high and everyone expects some kind of disney-esque love at first sight scenario and if they dont feel some magic fireworks on the first date, they bail completely. everyone is entitled to feeling that way, but its not exactly a rational way to view relationships or getting to know someone. and then they complain about about not having their dreams coming true and where is their prince charming and all this. she said once that she wanted the "american dream" with the the house and the dog and the fence and the yard, etc etc. I have all this, youre gonna be like "nah" because what? i did something weird on the FIRST TIME we met? i just dont understand this mindset at all. im not mad at her about it, i just dot get it

if she just wasnt feeling it, well whatever. I was. and not that im saying SHE owes me that, im just saying in an existential way. why does it always seem that everyone else's wants and feelings matter, but mine dont. my WHOLE LIFE, people get to hurt me or discard me in someway because hey its "their prorogative, theyre entitled to it" and they have no consequences. people defend them, make excuses for them. well great, she wasnt feeling it, thats her choice. my ex fiance didnt want me, thats her choice. friends i was very close with in past dont want me anymore, thats their choice. well great, everyone gets to make choices and get what they want, and my choices dont matter, i have to live in th fallout of what everyone else wants because hey "its their prerogative". when does my prerogative matter?

so she wasnt feeling it, cool, that means something is wrong with me. i was my best self, i put my best foot forward, and it wasnt good enough. i also dont understand how you can just suddenly "not feel it" over night. what the f*** changed?!

you are right, i also have the right to refuse to date someone...but i personally wouldnt say no to more dates just because the connection wasnt instant. if the person is enough for one date, i would feel like i owed them at least another before i decide theres nothing there. but i guess im the weirdo, and thus undatable and unlovable

 

im not saying SHE was unfair. she's fine. she didnt owe me anything. i dont hold any ill will toward her, none of this is post is directed at her as a person. she's great (hence why i asked her out, duh!). what pisses me off is like, this feeling of being kicked while im down, again. cant i just have a win. just once. cant the universe just give me one thing i want? i seriously do not know how many more years i can live this way. it was fun for the first year or 2, but now its really getting scary.

Edited June 10 by Gulf-Delta

[Gulf-Delta]

19 minutes ago, basil67 said:

I quoted you as saying "victory" might be coming your way.   It's still too early.   

With your metaphors....I think you've never been in a drought.  Because a single rain drop means nothing if there's no looming dark clouds or rain front on the radar.   And a sun shower won't dampen anything much.   And every point on a board is worth cheering, but seriously, you didn't get a point on the board.  I'd say that two dates and having her keen for a third is like scoring a single goal in the scheme of a whole match.  Those first and second dates are the warm up - not the match.  

 

Then what?  You spread yourself further.  When's the last time you went to the pub with mates?  Or to someone's 30th birthday event?

You need to remember that you've been talking with her for a few hours now.  During that time, she's gotten to know you and she's discovered that she's not feeling it.  It's really that simple

i know you meant your first paragraph to be encouraging or something, but that hurts even more, because then its like i made ZERO progress at all. i agree, first and second dates are a warm up! i wanted to see her again for that reason. i agree that early dates like this are not the end all be all of who a person is, youre still discovering stuff. was i so awful on the first date that im not even worth getting to know passed that?

i go to stuff all the time and get turned down there too.

she discovered shes not feeling it based on what? a few cumuative hours is enough to decide, "yep, this person isnt worth anymore of my time"? am i crazy? am i too empathetic or something? i would never write someone off after such a short amount of time

[Gulf-Delta]

37 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

Let me try to explain to you why things aren’t working for you, based on your own words:

 

There are several problems here. First, I don’t think you understand the concept of “confidence” correctly. You seem to think that being confident means being sure you’re going to get any girl you find attractive. But actually confidence means going into dating without expectations and fully accepting the possibility of rejection.

You, on the other hand, are projecting a desperate “all or nothing” vibe. This “either I get a wife or I shoot myself” attitude mounts extreme pressure on yourself and on whoever is exposed to it. Women don’t want to feel that they are holding your fate in their hands. They just want to love and to be loved. You’re too entrenched in your own problems and therefore appear emotionally unavailable to women.

Moreover, your apparent lack of humility comes together with its equally unappealing twin brother: self-pity. Because you feel entitled and believe you deserve to get things, you also crash and burn hard when this doesn’t happen. Then, the realization that you actually have no confidence (because there is no true confidence without humility) drives you towards self-pity. Self-pity is extremely unattractive and pushes women (and men) away like few other traits do, because self-pity is actually just the flip side of pride, and pride is absolutely the worst state of mind one could imagine.

You should definitely work on those issues before you attempt to date again. I wish you success, you can do it, but remember that any change starts with yourself, from within.

not to be rude, but you have no clue what youre talking about lol. i never said ANYTHING about confidence meaning you get any girl.

 

i never said anything to this girl about "i need a wife or ill shoot myself". we didnt even get that deep into a discussion on that kind of stuff. we both talked about bad past relationships. there was nothing in anything i said or did to indicate "self-pity" or any kind of pressure of any kind. there was nothing to indicate any emotional unavailability. they dont want to "love or be loved", if they did, there wouldnt be single women anywhere, because that is what most men want. thats what i want. oh but hey, im a weird desperate self-pitying freak for wanting that, i guess.

 

you dont know me, man. youre going on about stuff like self-pity or pride or humility etc. none of this stuff came up. and if its inherent in me and its just how i am, well then its just how i am and im screwed.

 

i just literally cannot wrap my mind around all these crazy rules and s*** people have for spending time with someone. it makes no sense to me, not even a little bit. you cant just spend time with someone and see what happens? without snap judgment or weird rules where if one of them is broken, that person goes in the trash...makes no sense

 

this is why ive never aksed a woman out before. theres too much bullshit. its all games and s***. no one is cool with "youre cool, im cool, lets hang out and see what happens". everyone is going through some stupid checklist or something. but hey, you meet an exceptionally nice girl who seems pretty smart and all, maybe itll be different. but its not. everyone is like this. why do people make dating difficult?

Edited June 10 by Gulf-Delta

[basil67]

1 minute ago, Gulf-Delta said:

she discovered shes not feeling it based on what? a few cumuative hours is enough to decide, "yep, this person isnt worth anymore of my time"? am i crazy? am i too empathetic or something? i would never write someone off after such a short amount of time

Yeah, that's more than enough to decide if something is worth pursuing.  I've been at events and written people off within 10 minutes I don't like their company.   

I've only met my new neighbour briefly but I already avoid him because he's a complainer and only talks about himself.  Then he threw the phrase "kids these days...." into a conversation and I knew then and there he was not one of my kind.  Of course, I will be polite to his face, but that's where it ends.

 

[Gulf-Delta]

Just now, basil67 said:

Yeah, that's more than enough to decide if something is worth pursuing.  I've been at events and written people off within 10 minutes I don't like their company.   

I've only met my new neighbour briefly but I already avoid him because he's a complainer and only talks about himself.  Then he threw the phrase "kids these days...." into a conversation and I knew then and there he was not one of my kind.  Of course, I will be polite to his face, but that's where it ends.

 

this sounds insane to me. i couldnt imagine treating people like that.

 

[basil67]

5 minutes ago, Gulf-Delta said:

we both talked about bad past relationships

That in itself is a red flag to me.   

[Gebidozo]

2 hours ago, mark clemson said:

You are also (unless I'm mistaken) a middle aged man, dating middle aged women.

I’m 48 and I’m dating a 30 year old woman now. But that’s not the point, things were the same when I was younger, I had success with women I liked and they didn’t like me for my looks.

2 hours ago, mark clemson said:

Even so, lets say that you were very attractive. Do you really think it's NOT true that MORE women would be showing interest in you?

I don’t think I’m unattractive. Do you mean “very good-looking”? Maybe more women would be showing interest in me, but that wouldn’t be the kind of interest I’m interested in, if you know what I mean. I simply wouldn’t be interested in women who go for the looks.

2 hours ago, mark clemson said:

I think you'd have more opportunities where the women come to you.

Oh, I’ve never lacked such opportunities, neither quantity nor, more importantly, quality wise. That’s precisely why I don’t want to be classically handsome, I want women to come to me because they are attracted to what makes me special, not because they spot a pretty face and some abs. Similarly, I’ve never wanted to be very rich because then I’d have doubts whether women like me for my money.

 

[basil67]

Just now, Gulf-Delta said:

this sounds insane to me. i couldnt imagine treating people like that.

Treating people like what?   You think I should hang out with someone who's an utter bore or never asks questions or is negative?  

[Gulf-Delta]

1 minute ago, basil67 said:

Treating people like what?   You think I should hang out with someone who's an utter bore or never asks questions or is negative?  

that isnt what happened in my case. we're talking about dating. looking for a partner.

 

4 minutes ago, basil67 said:

That in itself is a red flag to me.   

why?

[basil67]

4 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

Oh, I’ve never lacked such opportunities, neither quantity nor, more importantly, quality wise. That’s precisely why I don’t want to be classically handsome, I want women to come to me because they are attracted to what makes me special, not because they spot a pretty face and some abs. Similarly, I’ve never wanted to be very rich because then I’d have doubts whether women like me for my money.

Indeed. Besides, good looks attract the shallow.

I've never been attracted to the most objectively attractive guy because they tend to have a certain arrogance or over confidence about them.  I used to be more interested in his mate, the one having a good time and laughing.

[basil67]

2 minutes ago, Gulf-Delta said:

that isnt what happened in my case. we're talking about dating. looking for a partner.

why?

While everyone is allowed one bad relationship, someone who's got too much to say about personal experience with bad relationships is likely the one who's the problem.   Either that, or they have a broken picker.  Red flag.

Edited June 10 by basil67

[Gebidozo]

2 hours ago, Gulf-Delta said:

i just hate that i lose AGAIN

Yes, you’re a sore loser, and that’s why you keep losing. Change your attitude and start seeing rejection not as a loss, but as an opportunity to learn and grow.

2 hours ago, Gulf-Delta said:

it seems so unfair and brutal

Genocides are unfair and brutal. Do yourself a favor and cut off the self-pity.

[Gulf-Delta]

Just now, basil67 said:

While everyone is allowed one bad relationship, someone who's got too much to say about bad relationships is likely the one who's the problem.   Either that, or they have a broken picker.  Red flag.

it wasnt "too much". she asked me about mine. i asked her about hers i return. both boiled down to "we had an ex a long time ago that cheated, thats messed up". thats really all there was to it