How Long Before Exclusive

[Esteban]

How long before you should be exclusive?

And when do you first have the conversation about that?

(If anyone has just seen how long the thread is and can't be bothered to read it, feel free to answer the 2 questions anyway!)

Background: I separated from my wife nearly a year ago. Married at 26, now 44. Live alone. Now ready to start dating.

I'm quite tempted to contact the woman I dated for about a month in 2015 the first time I separated from my wife. That was a very special relationship considering it lasted a month and so contacting her after no contact for 9 years isn't as odd as it sounds. She even mused once about this happening when I dated her, thinking I would leave my wife again once the kids got older.

I am also going to be trying online dating again, as well as keeping my eye out elsewhere (I may do a separate thread about the latter).

Not really looking to go into another long-term relationship too quickly. Ideally I'd like to date a lot of women, and hopefully sleep with more than one or two of them, before getting into a relationship.  I do see myself in a long-term relationship sometime perhaps this year or next year. Don't see myself using Tinder at 50.

What I'm dithering about really is whether to try and date multiple women perhaps even at once (I'd prefer that if it'll actually work) or whether all that will achieve is that they all lose interest and I end up with nobody good. I think I'll just put on my online profile that I am looking for a relationship, meet someone, and not myself raise any questions about exclusivity etc for at least two dates, and just answer their questions honestly if they do. And then adjust that a bit over time depending on how it goes. What do you think?

In fact, I am hesitating about contacting the woman I dated in 2015 because I am looking for fun and if I meet her again I could see myself immediately going into a relationship with her because she was so amazing and missing out on the fun part of dating. But I think I am going to contact her anyway (while simultaneously getting on apps etc), ask for non-exclusive dating, and maybe try and be friends with her if she refuses. And yes it's very likely she is in a relationship with someone else, or has moved to live somewhere else, or has forgotten all about me and thinks it's wierd that I contact her, or doesn't even reply. All that is obvious but it doesn't affect the dilemma of when and how to contact her.

Half the time when I think about it I'm afraid of falling straight into a relationship and never getting to date a lot of women, and the other half of the time I imagine myself going on a date with a women saying I don't want exclusivity straight away and therefore this is the last date she agrees to, and I miss out on what would have been the love of my life and the imagined life of dating lots of attractive women just ends up a fantasy that never happens anyway. I am pretty happy and confident about starting dating by the way, but in writing in detail on a few of the less certain aspects just makes me seem way more neurotic and insecure and over analytical than I really am...

Google search says 1-3 months of dating not exclusively, and some sites say 3 months of dating with someone before even having the conversation. That slightly surprises me.

So to repeat...

How long before you should be exclusive? What would you be looking for?

And when do you first have the conversation? Or....how long can you date someone non-exclusively before telling them that's what you are doing. Does it change a lot having slept together vs not?

[basil67]

There is no rule: It's whatever the individual wants it to be....and compatibility is about whether or not the other feels the same way.

I will preface this by saying that for me, "exclusive" means not seeing others at the same time they are getting to know me on a deeper level.  It does not mean they are promising anything long term, because obviously we still need to properly get to know each other. 

If I was out there single again, I absolutely do not share.   And there's no way I'm having sex with someone who may be seeing someone else.  And my life experience tells me that if it's not quickly apparent that we both think it's something worth pursuing, that it's not worth continuing to date them.  So with this in mind, I'd give it three dates then raise the conversation.  If they are not willing to stop seeing others, then I'm out.    It could go long term....it could crash and burn within two months...but I need to be the only one.

 

 

Edited June 8 by basil67

[Gebidozo]

There are no rules in these things. I’d just generally advise you to focus on one woman at a time, because many women can sense that you aren’t focusing solely on them, and will lose interest in you as a result. No woman (and no man, really) wants to be just one of the many candidates. Everyone wants to feel special.

So my advice to you would be to pursue one woman romantically, make it clear to her that you’re aiming for exclusivity and relationship, and make sure she is on the same page. If I were you, I’d do it as early as possible.
 

 

[Lotsgoingon]

I am in the school that says you should date as many people as you can when it comes to first dates and maybe even second dates. This is generally before you get sexual with anyone. 

Even after you meet someone who seems a good fit and you go out on third and fourth and fifth dates with that person, I still think it a good idea (if you want) to continue to go out on first dates. Now if going out on many first dates is distracting, then sure, don't do it. If you tend to commit to people too soon, then going on multiple first and second dates (with different people) is a great idea. I tend to like people a lot and can have great conversations with lots of people and then I can easily fool myself into thinking I really "should" date them seriously. Going on lots of first dates and second dates is a good step for me to stop myself from committing too soon. 

You go exclusive when you know you want to be with this person and they make clear they want to be with you. You sorta feel this. You might start hanging out with this person multiple times a week and you lose interest in going out on first dates with other people. Those are signs you are entering excusive territory. But really it comes down to: when do you want to claim this person as your romantic partner? 

There is no rule. You talk about exclusive when you know you want to focus on this one person and when you sense some real staying power to the relationship. 

Oh, big point: are you really ready to date? I tend to avoid separated people. I want folks who are legally divorced. 

 

 

Edited June 8 by Lotsgoingon

[ExpatInItaly]

You're trying to plan too much. 

Relax. Get out there and meet a few women. Treat it on a case-by-case basis and don't attempt to map things out before you have even started dating. You never know who might be mutually interested, and who might give you a pass. 

[Esteban]

12 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

Oh, big point: are you really ready to date? I tend to avoid separated people. I want folks who are legally divorced. 

 

Yes, I am ready to date. The only thing holding me back from opening a dating app right now is that I just moved into this house a week ago and I'm only been back in Chile for two weeks, so huge list of things to do so want to be less busy before starting.

It looks like the rule is you can get divorced in Chile after one year of separation (if both parties agree) which means we have to wait until September.

Would you be fully accepting of someone who said 'I can't legally get divorced yet, but will as soon as I can.' ?

[Esteban]

Thanks for all of your responses. Perhaps is she doesn't raise the topic I should raise it by about the third date.

[Lotsgoingon]

Third date is not magical, it's the overwhelming feeling of things. 

Lots of people will date others who are separated. I just myself am cautious and want people to be divorced. 

[Calmandfocused]

Op, I’m going to be honest with you. 
 

As a mid 40s female I would give you a wide swerve. 
 

You’re missing a key component in your plan. You haven’t considered the perspective of all these women you plan to multi date. 

Why would a female of a mature age who (presumably) is looking for a partner want to date a legally married man, who has been married for nearly 20 years? Why when she has multiple options of men who may just be emotionally available, and in a position to date her seriously? 
 

Op, If you are looking to date casually first and want a bit of fun, please be honest about it.
 

As others have alluded to, if you mislead women, they are highly unlikely to stick around. You will be rejected as disingenuous, and unlikely to get as far as exclusivity in any event. 
 

 

 

[Esteban]

On 6/9/2024 at 7:28 AM, Calmandfocused said:

Op, I’m going to be honest with you. 
 

As a mid 40s female I would give you a wide swerve. 
 

You’re missing a key component in your plan. You haven’t considered the perspective of all these women you plan to multi date. 

Why would a female of a mature age who (presumably) is looking for a partner want to date a legally married man, who has been married for nearly 20 years? Why when she has multiple options of men who may just be emotionally available, and in a position to date her seriously? 
 

Op, If you are looking to date casually first and want a bit of fun, please be honest about it.
 

As others have alluded to, if you mislead women, they are highly unlikely to stick around. You will be rejected as disingenuous, and unlikely to get as far as exclusivity in any event. 
 

This seems a bit harsh.  I've considered the perspective of the women. I am emotionally available, and am in a position to date seriously, and I don't think anything I've said should have given a different impression.

My wife and I are living in separate houses, we haven't got divorced because we legally can't, and have had no romantic relationship for longer than the year we've been formally separated. The previous two women I dated while separated but not divorced had no issue with it, I am not sure if we even had a real conversation about it. In the first case I was still even living in the same house and she accepted that as well.

I am going to be honest and not mislead, and don't think anything I've said indicates otherwise. I think once I've gone past about 3 dates with the same person - and let's assume the other person wants non exclusivity - I'll either hide my dating profile or at least update it in some way. Perhaps put 'not looking for exclusivity from the first date'.

I think turning up for a date with someone without mentioning in advance that you've been dating someone else for a month and seen them say 6 times already (and plan to see them again) is not right,  but what about this for an example? I go on one date with someone, it goes OK, say one little kiss, good enough to get to the second date, neither one of us is clear whether or not it can lead to a real relationship and see it could go either way, and we arrange to meet a week later, but she cancels for what seems to be a good reason, and says perhaps we can meet the next week. Then I'm at home getting a message from someone that looks good on Bumble or someone says they want to set me up with a friend or I happen to have a good meet cute - I'm supposed to just reject all these opportunities? I think I'm going to feel an idiot later on if the women I actually went out with me ghosts me and I've burned all the other bridges.

Both of the women I dated before also said that they were fine with non-exclusive. They didn't even hesitate for a second, I think one of them said 'of course' they wouldn't ask for exclusivity after the first date and I felt a bit naive as if I was showing myself up as a novice by even asking.

I think I'd be more open to exclusivity from the first or second date if the person is open to seeing me twice a week less so if it's once a week and some of those get cancelled because of say changes to plans with kids etc.

Edited June 10 by Esteban

[Gaeta]

I have always been exclusive with men I dated after 3-4 dates, no more. You decide what type of dater you are and you live by that, if you need 3 months non-exclusive then that's what you want and find daters that think like you. I was a serious dater and would not invest 3 months in a man that multi-dated, that's alright too. Nothing is wrong, nothing is right, there is only what you want and be clear about it to women you meet. 

[Esteban]

'I have always been exclusive with men I dated after 3-4 dates'

That's interesting,how was this agreed , e.g. did one of you say on date 1/2 'just want to be honest, I won't be exclusive at this stage' or was that just left unspoken and then the first conversation about exclusivity was on date 3/4 ?

[Gaeta]

1 hour ago, Esteban said:

'I have always been exclusive with men I dated after 3-4 dates'

That's interesting,how was this agreed , e.g. did one of you say on date 1/2 'just want to be honest, I won't be exclusive at this stage' or was that just left unspoken and then the first conversation about exclusivity was on date 3/4 ?

In my online profile it was clear I was searching for a serious dater. I always asked them right away on our first contact what was their purpose online. I only continued chatting with men looking for a serious relationship. Exclusivity was never brought up on date 1 as it's only a date to break the ice. Date 2 is to confirm you do have that little chemistry together and you'd like to see them again, not really a good date to speak of exclusivity.

In the world of dating the date #3 is the decisive one. It's the date you decide to continue dating this person or the date you decide to drop them. Most men I dated brought up exclusivity on date 3, except for my current boyfriend who brought it up on date 2. I asked him if we could have another date before talking exclusivity, he agreed,  and on our 3rd date I told him I had deleted my online profile. We've been together 2 years. 

[Esteban]

As mentioned above, I wrote to the woman I dated for a month 9 years ago. She was not interested in seeing me whatsoever, and not just because she had moved to another country or is dating someone (although both those things are true). When I was with her she only had positive things to say about me, now her reflections were not positive. She said that me breaking up with me caused her a lot of harm. Reading between the lines I think she was fully in love with me, I broke her heart and left a mark to this day.

I think I've changed my mind about this a bit I wrote earlier: 'Not really looking to go into another long-term relationship too quickly. Ideally I'd like to date a lot of women, and hopefully sleep with more than one or two of them, before getting into a relationship.' That sounds OK, but I think at this point I'd rather meet the love of my life on the next date. I don't want to break someone's heart again, and I think my attitude is probably going to cause more suffering to the women than any benefit to myself.

At this point my absolutely ideal scenario would be that I meet the woman of my dreams immediately and be with only her forever.

I think if women thought like men and were more capable of enjoying casual affairs without heartbreak,  then I probably would prefer to sleep with a few women before settling down. But they don't , so trying to do so is awkward and maybe doesn't work. There were only two women when I was dating/trying to date in England before that said they were up for casual with me, and both changed their mind when it really came to it.

Several times seeing articles in the last year or two in liberal left-wing media where middle-aged women talk about their experiences in going out and seeking casual sex after getting a divorce or their open relationship (or some similar thing) but I think these articles are not repreesentative of where most women are at, or are just a very brief phase that women go through. They are just in the media beacuse they are the exception to the norm. Of course, I already knew that most women don't want casual sex, but it's even less than I thought basically.

Also, constantly chatting with different women at the same time in a dating app is not that pleasant in a way or at least it starts to affect the rest of my life's efficiency and mental health in subtle but negative ways. I also noticed this in England.

I think trying to have sex with lots of women is going to cause more suffering than pleasure and happiness (if we could combine the suffering and pleasure of everyone that is involved). Therefore, it seems hard to justify.

I've had two dates with the same woman this week and we did not even kiss. On the second date, she said she said I should not be exclusive yet, encouraged me to date others and not tell them I am multi dating, and was trying to convince me to change one of my profile photos for one or two she took of me. There will probably be a third date.

I also have just arranged one other date with someone else.

Dating two people at once without sex to give yourself the best chance to get a person best suited to you for the next relationship seems less controversial I think.

At one stage I was chatting with about 6 women at once so I've stopped swiping people until it calms down a bit. I think a bit more balance is needed. On the first couple of days I was having an amazing chat - the best I ever had in a dating app - and when I asked her out after a somewhat deep chat she just stopped responding. So then I saw there is an option to see the woman that have already liked you and that is kind of tempting as there were a few of them that were very attractive.

I probably won't swipe yes on any new people until I get to the point where I'm back to square one pretty much. If that happens.

Edited June 24 by Esteban

[Esteban]

Here are comments from two male friends of mine (UK, mid 40s)

'I don't think I have ever had a conversation about exclusivity - I aint inviting that conversation in'

'I think most women assume after a few dates...or after having sex over two different dates'

Edited June 25 by Esteban

[Gaeta]

10 hours ago, Esteban said:

Here are comments from two male friends of mine (UK, mid 40s)

'I don't think I have ever had a conversation about exclusivity - I aint inviting that conversation in'

'I think most women assume after a few dates...or after having sex over two different dates'

Are those single friends or friends in long term relationships? I find it funny when my brother gave me dating advice and he's been married 32 years. He's never seen a dating app in his life. 

I also do things as I see fit. As per my needs. As per what makes me comfortable. If a man does not bring up exclusivity then I will. I am not dating a man that needs more than 4-5 dates to make up his mind. By doing that I have avoided a lot of players & time wasters. I don't care that the exclusivity talk is not popular. Not bringing exclusivity nowadays with online dating is having a death wish. Maybe 20 years ago it was different, but it's not 1987 anymore. 

[Gaeta]

On 6/10/2024 at 2:50 PM, Esteban said:

we haven't got divorced because we legally can't

There is no such a thing as 'legally can't'.

You said you've just moved to Chili? Good luck trying to date while still married in a south American country at 70% Catholic. 

[Gaeta]

14 hours ago, Esteban said:

I think trying to have sex with lots of women is going to cause more suffering than pleasure and happiness

You are responsible for your happiness. These women are responsible for their own happiness. if you are 100% honest with them about having no strings attached sex then the risk of breaking their heart falls 100% on them. Your role is to be honest. 

[Alpacalia]

Why can't you just date and let things happen instead of from the beginning having some sort of plan...

If she was that amazing, and probably still is, then why would you not want to fall into a relationship, and put that energy into her rather than multiple women.

In any event, you can choose not to be forthcoming but sooner or later, typically sooner she will 100% ask the question..... What are you looking for or where is this going.

And if she dislikes your answer she will go. 

[Esteban]

On 6/25/2024 at 9:21 AM, Gaeta said:

Are those single friends or friends in long term relationships? I find it funny when my brother gave me dating advice and he's been married 32 years. He's never seen a dating app in his life. 

I also do things as I see fit. As per my needs. As per what makes me comfortable. If a man does not bring up exclusivity then I will. I am not dating a man that needs more than 4-5 dates to make up his mind. By doing that I have avoided a lot of players & time wasters. I don't care that the exclusivity talk is not popular. Not bringing exclusivity nowadays with online dating is having a death wish. Maybe 20 years ago it was different, but it's not 1987 anymore. 

Their situation is that they've had a marriage that lasted for some years, and are currently dating someone. I made a whats app group with the three of us because they're my two friends who've dated the most women - so I thought they would give good advice and be able to answer questions based on experiences with many women rather than just a few.

[Esteban]

On 6/25/2024 at 9:24 AM, Gaeta said:

There is no such a thing as 'legally can't'.

You said you've just moved to Chili? Good luck trying to date while still married in a south American country at 70% Catholic. 

As far as I can see online, you have to, by law, be separated for one year before getting divorced.

The woman I was on a date with on Sunday when I mentioned to her I wasn't divorced she said she wasn't either.

[Esteban]

On 6/25/2024 at 3:16 PM, Alpacalia said:

Why can't you just date and let things happen instead of from the beginning having some sort of plan...

If she was that amazing, and probably still is, then why would you not want to fall into a relationship, and put that energy into her rather than multiple women.

In any event, you can choose not to be forthcoming but sooner or later, typically sooner she will 100% ask the question..... What are you looking for or where is this going.

And if she dislikes your answer she will go. 

I think when you said 'if she was that amazing' etc you're referring to my original post. Yes, I think you're right, in the end I did contact her first, and only chatted with other women on dating apps after she responded and said no. Not sure if you saw my first post on Monday where I explained she replied and was extremely uninterested and unavailable.

[Esteban]

On 6/25/2024 at 9:27 AM, Gaeta said:

You are responsible for your happiness. These women are responsible for their own happiness. if you are 100% honest with them about having no strings attached sex then the risk of breaking their heart falls 100% on them. Your role is to be honest. 

Sure, sounds fair in theory but there are some tricky aspects in practice.

So I was thinking about this the other day with this woman I've been on 3 dates with. Now I wanted to be her lover for a few weeks without a doubt (and I was already starting to lose interest in dating anyone else and would happily have been exclusive with her after the first date if she had said so), and I could very probably see her being my girlfriend for 3 months or a year, but I think somewhat unlikely we're well enough matched to grow old together. Should I tell her that I think the odds of us growing old together are somewhat low before I sleep with her?  What if I changed my mind 3 months later and start to wonder if she is the love of my life? Then I'm going to regret saying it. So am I required to disclose that, even though it's a half -formed thought? Probably not? If I know for certain there's no chance of a long-term relationship, perhaps I should say it. But what if I'm 80% sure? Then I'd still like to be her boyfriend for 6 months or a year until I've figured it out for sure and keep to myself thoughts that may not be permanent.

She said on date 3 she wants me to be a friend, so don't go out of your way to give me advice here, and it looks like it's probably not relevant since it looks very unlikely I'll ever have the option to sleep with her. So at this point it's more of a hypothetical.

[basil67]

1 hour ago, Esteban said:

I could very probably see her being my girlfriend for 3 months or a year, but I think somewhat unlikely we're well enough matched to grow old together. Should I tell her that I think the odds of us growing old together are somewhat low before I sleep with her?  What if I changed my mind 3 months later and start to wonder if she is the love of my life? Then I'm going to regret saying it. So am I required to disclose that, even though it's a half -formed thought? Probably not? If I know for certain there's no chance of a long-term relationship, perhaps I should say it. But what if I'm 80% sure? Then I'd still like to be her boyfriend for 6 months or a year until I've figured it out for sure and keep to myself thoughts that may not be permanent.

So giving you a hypothetical answer:  Being exclusive simply means that you're interested enough in a woman to start exploring if there may be a future.  It's goes without saying that you're both still very much at the stage where as you get to know each other better, you may well find incompatibilities and break up.   

Though I would advise you to not offer or accept exclusively dating a woman when you are very sure that there's no future with her.  That would be very unfair to her.

[Esteban]

Sounds reasonable, I think we are (roughly) on the same page at this point.