Something off, or insecurities?

[merobt]

I don't have anyone I can ask who doesn't know both parties, as well as not having many friends, so I figure I'd get some anonymous opinions.

Recently in the dating scene (in my forties, haven't dated really ever), which doesn't make this easy. My problem I believe is I want to believe everything's my fault and insecurity and someone can point out where I'm right and wrong.

I have been seeing a woman for about 6 months. She had recently broken up before we started dating. Everything seems great, and she *seems* to be really into it, to the point where a significant silence in text prompts her to call.

On a recent visit to my home, she noticed a somewhat pricey bottle of whiskey, about 1/4 full. Asked if she could take it home, see if she liked it one day. In the past she said she didn't like drinking.

I have been to her apartment twice. First occasion, I ran into this "ex" as he was there "cleaning out his stuff." He was surprised to see her, and was actually lounging on couch. I think I wasn't supposed to see him. She had actually motioned for me to wait at the front door, but I thought as it was that she had pets, and kind of wasn't paying attention. She was actually annoyed at me when I noticed him. I immediately left. On the second occasion, I was there about 30 minutes. I found that bottle of whiskey mixed in with some alcohol bottles "he left behind," and a few other items of his on display - front and center - on the TV table.

I feel there's something not right there, like he's still in the picture. Or, he's just taking a real long time to clear out, I want to think this is just me looking at things too hard.

Now, on to a weekend recently. She mentioned she needed to do food shopping as she had been busy and short on time. I offered to take her to the supermarket so she could get what she needed before returning to her home.

She is at my house 3 full weekends out of the month, for about the past 3. I always buy the groceries, I more than often cook. On date night out, I provide the entertainment, and pay for everything. I have asked her for nothing.

We work similar jobs, similar pay. She seems responsible with her money.

At the supermarket, she gets what she needs. Stuff for her pets, and her grocery needs. About $300 in items. When we got to the register, she just stands there. I say to her the cashier is waiting, and she looks disgusted and pulls out the cash. No sooner we get to the car than she goes berserk telling me that I was supposed to pay. By offering to take her to the market, I was suggesting I was paying and backed out. To be clear, at no point I said I would pay, just that I would drive and assist.

Now here I am telling myself that I misunderstood the situation, and I screwed up. Things have been strained, she used to call more often and text more, but not as often and more generic (like news of the day kind of stuff).

My insecurities are telling me she's found someone she can get something out of, and that's all I'm here for. Yet, as I said it does seem she's into the relationship, or she may just be a good actor.

Recently she's taken to going though stuff like closets and cabinets when I'm not home and commenting on contents - so... snooping?

I wonder if not only I should be looking at my own faults and insecurities, but her as well. Maybe I should stop putting all things on my shoulders.

Edited June 10 by merobt

[NuevoYorko]

Instead of looking at it like it's YOUR problem or HER problem - why not look at what is happening and how you feel about it?   Personally I think it's weird that she wanted to take your whiskey home - if she wanted to try it, why not ask you if she can pour herself a drink?  Also weird that her ex is lounging around her apartment, and the grocery store scenario?  Going BEZERK?   

This sounds like a messed up situation you've gotten into.  Sorry.

[merobt]

3 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

Instead of looking at it like it's YOUR problem or HER problem - why not look at what is happening and how you feel about it?

Hey, thanks for replying.

No matter what, I feel like I'm being insecure, and therefore I'm misunderstanding these situations. My feelings say I'm an adult and shouldn't be reading too much into it.

"He's taking too long, that's all, no need to question her."

"Well, I *did* offer to take her to the store, so I was maybe implying I'd pay?"

That's kind of why I had posted.

I think however, your last sentence says a lot. Thanks for that one.

[NuevoYorko]

Lots of very secure people would choose not to date someone whose ex partner was not even finished moving out of the house and might be there lounging around at any moment.   

The store thing?  Were you responsible for driving her home, and you were taking her to the store on the way?  Perhaps you were unclear, maybe you actually implied that by "taking her shopping" you were paying for the groceries ... but the way she handled it?  Bad.

How are you feeling about these things?   I'm not talking about your worries over whether you're insecure or not.  I mean, the actual circumstances?  Paying for her groceries, and all the other stuff, and the ex being around?   

 

[merobt]

9 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

Lots of very secure people would choose not to date someone whose ex partner was not even finished moving out of the house and might be there lounging around at any moment.   

The store thing?  Were you responsible for driving her home, and you were taking her to the store on the way?  Perhaps you were unclear, maybe you actually implied that by "taking her shopping" you were paying for the groceries ... but the way she handled it?  Bad.

How are you feeling about these things?   I'm not talking about your worries over whether you're insecure or not.  I mean, the actual circumstances?  Paying for her groceries, and all the other stuff, and the ex being around?  

The store thing, I had simply said "We'll go to supermarket in your morning, get what you need." At least I thought it was simple.

How I feel? That I'm possibly being played, being taken advantage of. Then of course the insecurities.

However, I think I may have needed you to ask that simple question... it's made me realize I may not be decoupling those particular feelings from the rest, and I need step back and take a better look.

[smackie9]

There's no way you should be paying for her personal items...that's a big no. Dude....you are being taken advantage of. She's using you. She should have no access to your place...are you freakin crazy? She's looking to steal things. Give you head a shake. 

[Gebidozo]

A woman that has her ex hovering around and goes berserk because I don’t pay for her groceries is not someone I would date. I don’t think that the problem are your insecurities, whatever they might be.

[Gaeta]

1 hour ago, merobt said:

I have been seeing a woman for about 6 months. She had recently broken up before we started dating.

Rookie mistake #1. Do not ever date people just right out of relationship. It's basic dating 101. 

1 hour ago, merobt said:

I have been to her apartment twice

Rookie mistake #2. In 6 months you've been there twice only, why? 

All the rest of your story confirms you are dating a 'user'. This has nothing to do with your insecurities, this woman is out to take advantage of you. She is entertaining an ex in her home and she expects you to pay the groceries that HE will eat!! C'mon, time to move on to a better person!

[merobt]

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Rookie mistake #1. Do not ever date people just right out of relationship. It's basic dating 101. 

Thanks guys for the words.

In regards to the above, I didn't know the breakup was that soon until the incident where I walked in (about 4 months into it).

I was then giving her the benefit as I had actually only seen the ex that one time, but I was still suspicious. I thought that was just me being insecure.

Quite frankly I tend to be cynical of people, and was trying to be open minded. But yeah, another 2 months on and all his crap should have been not on display.

The specific question in that second reply by NueovoYorko give me a nice kick in the ass to look real hard and separate things in a short time. Thank you.

Time to move on.

 

[Lotsgoingon]

OMG, she is totally is a different league than you when it comes to selfish manipulation.

You need to run, fast, away from her or else you'll be shamed for not buying her a vacation in Paris with another person. 

I don't mean to shame you, but this is not a close case. Blaming yourself is a sign that you really can build your esteem. You want a relationship where you can totally relax and the other person takes care of you and reads you just as much as you read them. This is one way--in her favor.

She bought $300 of stuff and stood there to prod you to pay? Oh no. Dump her. Now!

[ShyViolet]

4 hours ago, merobt said:

At the supermarket, she gets what she needs. Stuff for her pets, and her grocery needs. About $300 in items. When we got to the register, she just stands there. I say to her the cashier is waiting, and she looks disgusted and pulls out the cash. No sooner we get to the car than she goes berserk telling me that I was supposed to pay.

What on earth??  You'd have to have really low self-esteem to continue dating this woman after she behaved like this.  This is crazy behavior.  It's unbelieveble that she expected you to pay for her groceries.

Not to mention the fact that you went to her house and her ex happened to be there "lounging".  So when you started dating her, her ex was clearly not out of her life.  You really need to learn what's normal and not nornal in dating.  None of this is normal.  

[Acacia98]

5 hours ago, merobt said:

She is at my house 3 full weekends out of the month, for about the past 3. I always buy the groceries, I more than often cook. On date night out, I provide the entertainment, and pay for everything. I have asked her for nothing.

We work similar jobs, similar pay. She seems responsible with her money.

At the supermarket, she gets what she needs. Stuff for her pets, and her grocery needs. About $300 in items. When we got to the register, she just stands there. I say to her the cashier is waiting, and she looks disgusted and pulls out the cash. No sooner we get to the car than she goes berserk telling me that I was supposed to pay. 

Under these specific circumstances, a normal person would not only pay for her own groceries but also make the effort to pay for other stuff (e.g. some date nights out, and some dinners in).

[FredEire]

2 hours ago, ShyViolet said:

What on earth??  You'd have to have really low self-esteem to continue dating this woman after she behaved like this.  This is crazy behavior.  It's unbelieveble that she expected you to pay for her groceries.

Not to mention the fact that you went to her house and her ex happened to be there "lounging".  So when you started dating her, her ex was clearly not out of her life.  You really need to learn what's normal and not nornal in dating.  None of this is normal.  

I agree with ShyViolet, perhaps the fact that you are a little bit late to the game in terms of serious dating means you give a pass to things you really shouldn't.

Some of us think manipulative behaviour is normal or necessary when we first start seeing people, I'm 30 and it's something I'm just starting to properly figure out too. I too have struggled with your issue of thinking everything is my fault and taking it on myself, and it's a magnet for users and people who think they have a right to push your boundaries because you will accept the unacceptable.

I don't think a woman who cares about you would throw a fit when you don't want to pay a considerable amount of money for her personal stuff, at the very least she would calmly talk it out with you away from the cashier, in the case that she had genuine reason to think you were offering to pay.

That's the biggest no-no for me, the other stuff about exes and snooping seems weird but it's hard to say conclusively what's going on.

Biggest thing I've realised: if something feels off it probably is. People who genuinely care about you and nothing more make you feel calm, not on edge and questioning yourself all the time.

[basil67]

Everyone has picked up on some significant issues and I don't need to comment on them further..

But I nearly choked when she wanted to take your quarter bottle of expensive whiskey to try it sometime.   If she wants to try it, that's great, but the expectation is that she'd ask if she can have a taste while she's at your place.   And she leaves the bottle at your place.

Also, don't ever be in a relationship with women who never pays.  Yes, sometimes there's a significant income disparity and you may pay more,  but at the very least, you'd expect her to pay for parking and buy some drinks if you're buying dinner.   Of course, it's nice to pay for early dates, but when you're in a relationship and she has a good income she should be matching you in paying,   And she should be willing and able to cook.

It's absolutely essential that you expect to be treated fairly

Edited June 10 by basil67

[merobt]

On 6/10/2024 at 4:38 PM, FredEire said:

I agree with ShyViolet, perhaps the fact that you are a little bit late to the game in terms of serious dating means you give a pass to things you really shouldn't.

Some of us think manipulative behaviour is normal or necessary when we first start seeing people, I'm 30 and it's something I'm just starting to properly figure out too. I too have struggled with your issue of thinking everything is my fault and taking it on myself, and it's a magnet for users and people who think they have a right to push your boundaries because you will accept the unacceptable.

Yeah I'd say it was a mix of self esteem (while not low isn't great) and thinking I needed to be a bit more tolerant as I was older contributed greatly to my inaction at first.

The discovery of the apartment of the ex's stuff remaining and the grocery store incident were in the past 2 weeks. That kind of woke me up and prompted me to post my post.

I had in the meantime been preparing, not sure this isn't going to be painless, nor painful - but I have decided what I needed to do based on input.

[FredEire]

1 minute ago, merobt said:

Yeah I'd say it was a mix of self esteem (while not low isn't great) and thinking I needed to be a bit more tolerant as I was older contributed greatly to my inaction at first.

The discovery of the apartment of the ex's stuff remaining and the grocery store incident were in the past 2 weeks. That kind of woke me up and prompted me to post my post.

I had in the meantime been preparing, not sure this isn't going to be painless, nor painful - but I have decided what I needed to do based on input.

Good for you 👍

It will really suck, especially if this is your first proper relationship. Just remember you had a good reason and be patient with yourself.

[merobt]

On 6/11/2024 at 6:41 PM, FredEire said:

Good for you 👍

It will really suck, especially if this is your first proper relationship. Just remember you had a good reason and be patient with yourself.

Thanks.

Yeah it sucks, but I had taken the few days before my post to prepare mentally.

I took a job early in life in which I worked with a lot of older people. Saw a lot of this kind of nonsense which kept me away, who knows if this will be a first and last kind of deal.

[Listkinado]

In my opinion, trust your gut! It's usually pretty good at sensing when things aren't quite right. Communication is key too—talking things out can often clear up misunderstandings or give you a better sense of where you stand.

[Herkamer]

Just to address a couple of things:

If a woman respects you, she will not expect you to pay for HER things that she needs, have an ex with stuff still in their old place (let alone the ex still being around), and leave YOUR stuff alone. This woman in your situation got mad when you noticed her ex in her apartment when she was there, but you have every right to be angry when she goes through your personal belongings when you're not around. So she needs to respect you and your personal belongings.

DO NOT (and this is an unpopular opinion) move a woman into your home if she is NOT your wife. It may not be today or tomorrow, or even in a few years, she WILL cause you trouble, especially over ownership of the home and all your belongings. Is it every couple? No, but is it way too many? Absolutely it is and it has happened. Until there is a wedding band on that left ring finger, she does not move into that home, let alone her having free reign to go in and out as she pleases. And don't put her name on the home if you did (or didn't) move her in.

As soon as she starts going behind your back while you're dating her without a proper breakup, you and the woman are done. This woman you mentioned still has her ex coming in and out of her apartment and she's searching through your personal belongings without your permission. That's a red flag, and if she's the one getting angry about getting called out on it, that's another red flag.

Now, I understand about having insecurities because there are times where you think one thing then find out it wasn't it at all, but if the negatives become too obvious and blatant, then you have to make the call. Don't make yourself miserable by hanging around someone like that. As one guy said on here, it'll hurt when (if) you break up with this one because this is, more or less, a gf, but this'll pass and you'll heal pretty quick. My only other piece of advice to go along with all this is if you're looking to get back in the game later with another woman: hit the gym, diet properly, buy new wardrobe that'll look good on you, spend (more) time with family and friends, improve your work ethic, and find a good physical hobby (running, swimming, bicycling, etc). I'm doing doing ballroom dance (competitively, showcasing, and socially) and I enjoy it a lot, and I have met so many people in it. They see how confident and joyful I am doing it. And that's what I'm getting at: confidence. That'll help get rid of much of your insecurities because you are sure of yourself. I can (almost) guarantee you that a woman will come along, without the baggage, and respect and like you for you. Take it from a guy who was a 330 pound hot mess and managed to lose over 100 pounds of himself. So don't fret and someone will come along in your life that'll want to share their life with yours!

[SweetEscape22]

There's a lot here that's troubling. It sounds like she's playing you and using you for the benefits. She's not likely cheating on you, but that's not exactly good news either. She's taking advantage of your generosity and it's becoming a one-sided relationship.

First off, you don't need to be her errand boy. She's an adult, let her handle her own groceries. Stop buying stuff for her and doing things for her and she'll start to appreciate you more.

Second, the snooping. You need to lay down the law. Tell her that it's not acceptable to go through your things without your permission, it's a big violation of privacy.

Third, find your own hobbies, interests, and friends. You need to be less available and less accommodating. If you're too available, she's going to start to take you for granted. Make her miss you a bit and she'll come crawling back.

Fourth, be careful of the ex. It's okay to be cautious. She's likely not cheating, but she might be using you for now and waiting for something better to come along.

You've been giving her everything she wants and not making her work for anything. That's not how a relationship is supposed to be. It needs to be a two-way street, not you doing all the work and her reaping the benefits. Don't be her errand b****, and don't be afraid to stand up for yourself.

[merobt]

Wow, more replies after all this time, thanks guys and gals.

The whole snooping thing, someone suggested it as her looking to steal. I actually never looked at it that way, but rather that she was trying to find dirt on me - take attention off herself by finding something on me. This way she had the reason to break up and make it my fault. That view made it a bigger red flag than stealing IMO.

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DO NOT (and this is an unpopular opinion) move a woman into your home if she is NOT your wife

I've seen this one before, and it makes sense.

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And don't put her name on the home if you did (or didn't) move her in.

I may have a controversial opinion on this one, but that's never going to happen with any woman. In three years the home I bought will be paid off, all by myself (painfully). I have no intention on just handing any part of it over, so it'll be my name, alone, always. Say what you will about trust, but I put in ALL of the effort, it is mine alone.

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First off, you don't need to be her errand boy.

Not quite her errand boy, but as she was spending a bit of time here (whether I drive or the occasion she drives herself, in NYC/suburban traffic, it's at least an hour each way on a good day), so it was offered as a gesture to help her save some time. There was never any intent on my part to pay. This "kind" gesture though did end up backfiring, whether time or money, lesson learned.

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Make her miss you a bit and she'll come crawling back.

Well, I had admitted my self esteem wasn't terribly low nor terribly high. However, once I made the decision, never once did I think "she'll miss me," but "you f-ed up, sweetheart." In the end that realization I think made handling the aftermath a lot better.

[Calmandfocused]

She is using you for money. Not only that you are paying for her “ex”. Meaning that you’re paying for his lifestyle too. 
 

Whose neck do you think that your whiskey went down? Hers? … Nope! 
 

Look you’ve been spun a line about this “ex”. I don’t think he’s an ex. I think he’s encouraging her to get as much out of you as possible. 
 

Time to start facing the music head on and leave your insecurities aside Op. You can stop this right now. 
 

Get out. Stay out. And please do not waste anymore money on this woman. 
 

Money cannot buy you love.