Love a married woman

[hopefulmusician]

The brief story...  I am in love with my married friend.  She and I have known each other almost 2 years and for almost 18 months of that time we've been in love.  We're both married for 25 years but I'm getting a divorce.  We tried to not let it get physical, but we couldn't stop ourselves (or didn't want to).  We have both complained about our married lives, both have our own issues with our spouses.  After a long battle with my wife over many issues, we have decided to divorce.  My friend/lover has thought of leaving her husband several times, but has always feared the consequences and guilt.  She admits that her husband is only like a friend/roommate to her and is a narcissist.  But she worries about hurting others in the process, but she isn't happy.  She says she doesn't want to make waves.  She says she loves me and that dreams of a time we can be together but is scared to make such a big change.  Her children are grown and are in their 20s and I have an 11yo.  

We have continued our affair meeting up when we can and it's great.  Lunch, coffee, little things...  We talk every morning and afterwork on the way home, we text throughout the day.  Now that I'm getting a divorce, she says she's jealous. She's jealous that I'll be "on the market".  We are both convinced that we are perfect for each other and have even called each other soulmates (if you believe in that - I do now).  After 2 years of knowing her, I love her more than ever and her me.  I cannot think of my life without this woman.  Some people have said that this will just taper off, but it hasn't...it's gotten stronger and I will be single soon and I want to be with her.  But what can I do??  I want her to be with me on her terms.  I don't want to "force" her to leave her husband.  I want to convince her to be happy like she says she wants to, but keeps retreating when she realizes what has to happen...what do I do?  How do I help her work through her fear?!  

Everything I read says run away and stop the affair, but I can't.  I feel this is the person I could spend the rest of my life with...truly.  

Edited June 18, 2024 by hopefulmusician
clarification

[BaileyB]

33 minutes ago, hopefulmusician said:

I feel this is the person I could spend the rest of my life with...truly.  

Unfortunately for you, she is married to another man. 

You are planning a future with another man’s wife. 

If she wanted to build a life with you, she would make the decision to do so. The fact that she hasn’t done so says it all - unfortunately, you are wasting your time here and you are going to be very, very hurt when this affair inevitably ends. 

Edited June 18, 2024 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

38 minutes ago, hopefulmusician said:

How do I help her work through her fear?!  

It’s not your place. She needs to make the decision to end her marriage on her own accord - because that is the right decision for her and her family. You can not, you should not, interfere. 

It sounds counterintuitive, but if you are meant to be together you should walk away… tell her to find you when she has filed for divorce and signed all the papers. She is a grown woman, if she wants to divorce she will file for divorce. If she wants to have a legitimate, committed relationship with you - she will make that happen. 

Edited June 18, 2024 by BaileyB

[hopefulmusician]

If I may sound a bit selfish, why would walking away make it better?  If we are meant to be together, why would it matter if I walk away or stay in her life?  (not trying to sound like a smartass, genuinely curious).

I will also say that after 25 years of marriage for both of us, we both admit we have never done anything like this before or felt this way about anyone else in our lives... I'm trying to cling to the hope that my presence will help give her strength instead of her recoiling in fear.  And not even in a sexual way...we are best friends.

[Gebidozo]

You’ve made your decision, divorced your wife, and are ready to be with that woman.

Unfortunately, she hasn’t done the same. 

All you can do now is make it very clear to her that you can only be with her after she has divorced her husband. Who knows, maybe she will have enough courage to do that necessary thing once she realizes she’ll lose you otherwise.

[Gebidozo]

8 minutes ago, hopefulmusician said:

If I may sound a bit selfish, why would walking away make it better?  If we are meant to be together, why would it matter if I walk away or stay in her life?  (not trying to sound like a smartass, genuinely curious).

I will also say that after 25 years of marriage for both of us, we both admit we have never done anything like this before or felt this way about anyone else in our lives... I'm trying to cling to the hope that my presence will help give her strength instead of her recoiling in fear.  And not even in a sexual way...we are best friends.

By continuing this affair while she’s still married, you’re enabling an unethical action and an unhealthy situation in which you and that woman aren’t equal. You are free, she is not. You are ready to be with her, she is not. By staying, you’re basically giving her green light to continue treating you in that unfair way.

If you firmly announce that you’ll be with her only once she is free, you’ll know for sure whether she truly loves you or not. If she does, she’ll get a divorce. If she doesn’t, it means she doesn’t love you enough. In either case, you’ll know where you’ll be standing. The way things are now, you’re just in a limbo of uncertainty and doubts.

[basil67]

Sounds like reality is that your AP may never leave her husband, so will you be happy to be her lover?  Or would you rather take a bit of time to explore what else is out there and find yourself a lovely new partner?

Ethically, I think it would be a poor choice to continue seeing your AP while also dating others who may have a view to a relationship

Edited June 18, 2024 by basil67

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, hopefulmusician said:

And not even in a sexual way...we are best friends.

Except, she is married to another man. That’s not something to dismiss - she tells you that you are her best friend, and then goes home every night to her husband. You seem to think of this as an inconvenient problem that needs only a solution - 

I say, if the woman lies to her husband about your presence in her life… what makes you think that you can believe a word that she says when she tells you that they live like roommates, that she wants to be with you, or that she is considering divorce. 

The woman is a liar. She lies to her husband. She lies to her children. She lies to her friends and her family. And she very likely lies to you. 

Add to that the fact that you want to believe what you want to believe…
 

1 hour ago, hopefulmusician said:

If I may sound a bit selfish, why would walking away make it better?

It would do so many things… It would require her to make a decision and live with a little more integrity. She’s not doing that right now - she is stringing both you and her husband along… 

She knows that you are not going anywhere, that allows her to continue as she has been. She doesn’t have to file for divorce because she has things exactly as she wants them right now… She keeps the comforts of her marriage and her boyfriend. 

For you, I say have the self respect not to allow her to waste your time in this way. There is nothing to respect about a man who offers to emotionally support a woman who doesn’t have the strength or courage to do the same - to choose him.

And if you walk away and she doesn’t make the decisions that she needs to make to be in a legitimate relationship with you - it allows you the opportunity to find a woman who wants to love and be with you in the way that you want… 

 

Edited June 18, 2024 by BaileyB

[ExpatInItaly]

You are going to wind up heart-broken here. 

That is why the overwhelming advice is to walk away. She is very, very unlikely to leave her husband and be with you in a real relationship. The sooner you realize that and work on detaching, the better for you. 

[mark clemson]

21 hours ago, hopefulmusician said:

She's jealous that I'll be "on the market". 

Indeed. And as others are pointing out, she knows how to address that, but can't find it in her to take the necessary action. That's not unusual - from everything I've read (while it does SOMETIMES happen) OM/OW leaving their spouses voluntarily is rare. Practical matters frequently override sentiment in life, so this is to be expected.

I feel like she's going to keep you around as an orbiter (due to your feelings) until you finally tire of the situation and move on. IMO the most likely way this plays out. How long you wish to be the "backdoor man" is I suppose up to you.

[Circadian]

It doesn’t sound like she plans to divorce her husband. Give her an ultimatum to decide once and for all. My guess is you’ll get hurt by her decision but at least you’ll know where you stand and can then move on.

[hopefulmusician]

Thank you all for your non-judgemental responses (you might be judging me but at least I don't know). I definitely need to do some soul searching here...  I know what I want and I want to have hope.  As I am navigating my own divorce, she's been a rock for me and honestly, until mine is final I want her in my life.  I have a friend and confidant and some stability, which I cannot discount.  I know I need to throw down the gauntlet eventually and either walk away or get the commitment from her.  I do know this...  And yes, she's lying to her husband, family etc. as was I.  I left my marriage knowing this would not continue.  It took me a while to get to that point.  But now seeing it from the other side, I know why it's hard to leave.  I have even contemplated risking everything and telling her husband.  I know I'd probably lose her, but I also know I'd ruin her marriage, her family and friends...and is it really my place to do that? ...even though technically she already has betrayed and walked away from her marriage.  I also fear for my safety as well.  Part of me want to force her hand, and the other part wants time to work this out and she'll be with me.  I am not trying to be wishy washy about this at all...I just know that after all this time, I sometimes feel she's going to draw the line and leave...

I am in therapy for a reason 😁

[basil67]

1 hour ago, hopefulmusician said:

Part of me want to force her hand

If you have to force someone's hand to be with you, what does it tell you about the relationship?  

[hopefulmusician]

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

If you have to force someone's hand to be with you, what does it tell you about the relationship?  

That she's anxious.  Which she is...

[BaileyB]

19 minutes ago, hopefulmusician said:

That she's anxious.  Which she is...

If you force her hand, how do you think that’s going to go for you?

Edited June 26, 2024 by BaileyB

[Gebidozo]

3 hours ago, hopefulmusician said:

I have even contemplated risking everything and telling her husband. 

Please don’t do that. That is probably the worst thing you could do in this situation.

3 hours ago, hopefulmusician said:

Part of me want to force her hand, and the other part wants time to work this out and she'll be with me.

Then listen to the patient part. 

If you force her hand, she won’t be truly yours. She must do it of her own accord.

3 hours ago, hopefulmusician said:

I sometimes feel she's going to draw the line and leave...

 

If that happens, then so be it. Then she’s not your soulmate. You must take that risk.

[mark clemson]

22 hours ago, hopefulmusician said:

I also fear for my safety as well. 

For better or worse, people "do foolish things for love" all the time, but I think you'd be well served listening hard to whatever part of your brain is telling you THAT as well...

[basil67]

21 hours ago, hopefulmusician said:

That she's anxious.  Which she is...

One can be anxious and still make difficult decisions.  If she really wanted to leave, and saw that the benefits of doing so would outweigh the problems in her marriage and the complexities of leaving, she would find the courage to do it.  

She could also be very aware of the optics of leaving her husband for another man and how her children may react and the others around her will gossip.   While some adult children accept it, others do not.  I've known more than one incidence where the children of the person who left for someone else didn't speak to them again.  Or took years to come to terms with it.   Do you really want to blow up her family and risk alienating her from them?

All in all, she needs to leave because she wants to leave. 

 

[hopefulmusician]

I guess only time will tell at this point.  

[BaileyB]

As you seem intent on sticking this out, my advice would be to set a deadline… if she hasn’t left/initiated divorce proceedings by (insert your date) - it’s over. If it was me, I wouldn’t give her too long to think about it because she is likely to string you along as long as you let her… I would say - there needs to be movement by fall. She needs to move out, file for divorce, etc… and if that doesn’t happen, I would be done. 

As the saying goes, there comes a time when one needs to understand they should not cross an ocean for someone who is unwilling to step over a puddle for you. 

Edited July 6, 2024 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

40 minutes ago, happyhorizons said:

Her actions will ALWAYS speak louder than HER WORDS.  She seems WISHY WASHY which cannot be a GOOD SIGN FOR YOU.

She seems like she is not ready to break up her family and file for divorce. But he is not ready to accept that just yet. 

Edited July 6, 2024 by BaileyB

[hopefulmusician]

You're all right...in many ways.  

I don't know why my gut reaction is to not change anything yet.  In the back of my mind I have some hope that continuing on my relationship will reassure her.  She is constantly asking me about what I'm going through, the details...not just "good luck".  She wants to know how I did it... she asked to see my divorce papers because she wanted to read them.  She was genuinely curious.  She said it looked scary.  I said it's liberating.  She keeps wanting to know more... almost like she is trying to build up some courage or will to do what she feels... she's scared and unsure.  And yes... she has to leave on her own accord and I'm not to break them up.  I agree.  I really do.  But, she's already told me that she's planned on leaving him 3xs in the past several years.  She's told me about her girlfriends that have offered to let her stay with them if she left.  When we get serious about it, she gets scared and says - "it won't go over well.  They'll be violence".  Listen, I have said I love this woman with all my heart, and I would spend my life with her.  She also knows that.  But, the fear she expresses to me is real. I feel being her best friend (regardless of our outcome) I need to be there to listen to her.  And to be there if she needs me.  I told her she should talk to someone and she said she knows but her husband will think something's up.  I even told her to talk to some of her close friends and they tell her to leave.  Walking away from her doesn't feel right yet.  And I don't know how long I can take being the "other" guy.  But my intuition (not my hormones) keep saying to stay and support her.  

Again, many of you may roll your eyes at me...but the one thing I'm starting to learn from my divorce process is that I never trusted my instincts in my 25yr marriage.  I always pushed them aside and did what I was told was right.  So, this is one chance I'm trying to listen to myself.  And...it may be stupid "love goggles" and I'll get hurt.  But I want to know that I tried until I couldn't anymore... does that make any sense to anyone?  

[BaileyB]

24 minutes ago, hopefulmusician said:

When we get serious about it, she gets scared and says - "it won't go over well.  They'll be violence.”

Does this not concern you - for yourself? I mean, the absolute last place that you should be is in the middle of an abusive relationship. 

 

28 minutes ago, hopefulmusician said:

I told her she should talk to someone and she said she knows but her husband will think something's up.

This is not a woman who is prepared to leave her husband. 
 

28 minutes ago, hopefulmusician said:

I even told her to talk to some of her close friends and they tell her to leave. 

You seriously underestimate how difficult it is for a woman to leave an abusive relationship. 

Not saying that it is in abusive relationship - as all we have is your inferences from a few vague statements made by your affair partner…

Two things I would suggest that you research - the cycle of abuse. And white knight syndrome. 

[sassybosschic]

35 minutes ago, hopefulmusician said:

And...it may be stupid "love goggles" and I'll get hurt.  But I want to know that I tried until I couldn't anymore... does that make any sense to anyone?  

I feel you man. Considering I was shopping for pain myself. I never thought I would find myself involved and falling in love for a MM. Trust me sometimes, the MM/MW don't "downgrade" to the other man/woman, but rather we can definitely be the upgrade. But I don't see a way you can convince her. She has plenty of trouble of her own with that abusive relationship. Things can go badly in an instance. 

Edited July 8, 2024 by sassybosschic

[Gebidozo]

57 minutes ago, hopefulmusician said:

But, she's already told me that she's planned on leaving him 3xs in the past several years. 

Now it’s 3 times in the past several years, later it will be 10 times in the past 25 years. How long are you planning to wait for something that doesn’t seem to be happening at all?

 

59 minutes ago, hopefulmusician said:

When we get serious about it, she gets scared and says - "it won't go over well.  They'll be violence". 

What exactly does she mean? Has her husband ever been physically violent to her? 
 

1 hour ago, hopefulmusician said:

But I want to know that I tried until I couldn't anymore... does that make any sense to anyone?  

It does, but perhaps the definition of “trying” might differ. You seem to think that “trying” means keeping this vague status quo, which involves deceit, disrespect and humiliation. I think that “trying” can also mean telling the woman that you love her, which means you  want her all for yourself, you don’t want to share her with another man, and therefore are unwilling to be an affair partner and insist that she divorces. If she doesn’t do it then, if she still chooses her husband knowing that she will lose you wholly, that she won’t be able to keep you as a convenient affair partner - what sort of “trying” will have any sense then?