I tried being a woman but straight men seem to hate me?

[basil67]

35 minutes ago, tdbq said:

'm not talking about their style nor what they do for a living I'm talking about their face their look is hyper feminine and seen as masculine.

Re Nicki Menaj and Megan thee stallion, I don't see them as having particularly feminine faces,  let alone hyper feminine.  But I can't see that they'd ever be mistaken for being a man.   I think that Whitney Houston was the definition of a very feminine looking black woman

(I'm using google image search for my definition of hyper feminine)

Edited June 21 by basil67

[tdbq]

20 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Re Nicki Menaj and Megan thee stallion, I don't see them as having particularly feminine faces,  let alone hyper feminine.  But I can't see that they'd ever be mistaken for being a man.   I think that Whitney Houston was the definition of a very feminine looking black woman

(I'm using google image search for my definition of hyper feminine)

Um you literally just said barbie. Barbie on white women is feminine but somehow not on Nicki Minaj or Megan... That's an oxymoron. And Nicki Minaj has large eyes full lips and a small nose those are feminine traits. That's what I was saying style and features. As well as body type etc...

[tdbq]

1 hour ago, Gaeta said:

So put dating aside. Take care of yourself, you need to self love through this transition. You do not need some online dating clowns to make you feel bad or rejected. Join a support group for people transitioning, it will do you an enormous amount of good to make friends going through the same struggles. They will support you and guide you. All this 'assuming' does no good to you, when you start transitioning and taking your testosterone you will get male features and you will feel better and more confident in who you are.

Yeah I agree that's the whole point of this thread I think it's pointless considering straight men don't like me even when I try to be feminine. That I might as well give up on dating and focus on other aspects that transitioning would actually benefit me.

[basil67]

12 minutes ago, tdbq said:

Um you literally just said barbie. Barbie on white women is feminine but somehow not on Nicki Minaj or Megan... That's an oxymoron. And Nicki Minaj has large eyes full lips and a small nose those are feminine traits. That's what I was saying style and features. As well as body type etc...

But Nicki Minaj is fake.  She's had so much plastic surgery that she looks like a caricature.  And I think white women with loads of plastic surgery look stupid too.   I don't see femininity in a woman who's nose is not the slightest bit natural. 

Unless you've had loads of plastic surgery, I highly doubt you look like Minaj or Stallion

[tdbq]

41 minutes ago, basil67 said:

But Nicki Minaj is fake.  She's had so much plastic surgery that she looks like a caricature.  And I think white women with loads of plastic surgery look stupid too.   I don't see femininity in a woman who's nose is not the slightest bit natural. 

Unless you've had loads of plastic surgery, I highly doubt you look like Minaj or Stallion

No those are black features full big lips large eyes small nose. They both have those features. Because of their ethnic background. As well as being mixed. They have both said they don't have plastic surgery on their faces. In their faces literally look the same when they were children. You're probably not used to seeing mixed people I guess. Or maybe you're just uncomfortable with the mixture of racial features.

 

 

And to answer your question. No look at her with or without makeup. That's not plastic surgery it doesn't seem you understand what the Glam look is. It will make your features stand out more. But that doesn't mean it's plastic surgery it's makeup don't you notice she doesn't have makeup in your previous example at??

Edited June 21 by tdbq

[tdbq]

37 minutes ago, basil67 said:

But Nicki Minaj is fake.  She's had so much plastic surgery that she looks like a caricature.  And I think white women with loads of plastic surgery look stupid too.   I don't see femininity in a woman who's nose is not the slightest bit natural. 

Unless you've had loads of plastic surgery, I highly doubt you look like Minaj or Stallion

But you're pretty much pointing to how you're proving my point. And the idea of thinking that people should look like white women we're not going to look like that because we're racially different. It's kind of obvious.

[basil67]

https://it.pinterest.com/pin/587508713899930815/

Nicki Minaj before and after.  I think she was much more attractive before.  

[tdbq]

50 minutes ago, basil67 said:

But Nicki Minaj is fake.  She's had so much plastic surgery that she looks like a caricature.  And I think white women with loads of plastic surgery look stupid too.   I don't see femininity in a woman who's nose is not the slightest bit natural. 

Unless you've had loads of plastic surgery, I highly doubt you look like Minaj or Stallion

But my point in this was specifically that type of style. On those type of features that are already hyperfeminine. Which you just need too good to be true because they're supposedly plastic when they're not. There are plenty of women of color that have those features. Day to day. But it's always encourage that those women dummy it down. Just like you're implying here. So femininity is not allowed. Buy your own admission. For some women.

 

 

@basil67you're literally proving my point you said that when she's feminine and trying to be more of a barb-esque phenotype. You're saying that that is drag queen.... Barbs on a black or mixed woman is drag queen to you I literally look the same. In my no makeup versus makeup look. And one photo you're showing her without makeup another you're showing it with it. That's the only difference

 

 

That is the end result of someone being feminine. And you say that someone being feminine. Is literally them being drag queen. Being manish. Someone wearing makeup is manish. You see my point here and what I go through all along

 

Nicki Minaj is also mixed race which is why she has the same nose now. @basil67 

 

It does appear you don't even know what contour is. But you can see the contour on her nose. In your after photo. 

 

You're uncomfortable with her having racially ambiguous features including her nose which is indian. And her Afrocentric features. That's just weird. All you have to do is look up her racial at background. Of course she's not the same ethnicity as Michael jackson. A dark-skinned fully black man.

@basil67that's be on the point though. My point was exactly expressed by you. Explaining why you think certain women should not be feminine. And it bothers you and you literally did exactly what I said you guys do.. thing is with me I'm not willing to fight for it. Because I don't identify with it anyway. I don't identify as a woman anyway. And at the beginning of this conversation. It was clear you had some kind of transphobic obsession with trans women to the point you couldn't even address women like me of which women like you attack. It's a thing where you try to be feminine you try feminine hairstyles and make up and people like you say it's too much and that you're basically a man because some women can't attain that doesn't mean all can't. But I'm tired of that game it's nonsensical and not worth women deal with all sorts of oppression violence and vulnerability who wants to fight for that? Especially when I'm not feminine anyway and always identified with men anyway

Edited June 21 by tdbq

[basil67]

1 minute ago, tdbq said:

But you're pretty much pointing to how you're proving my point. And the idea of thinking that people should look like white women we're not going to look like that because we're racially different. It's kind of obvious.

Who thinks people should look like white women?

[basil67]

Just now, tdbq said:

But my point in this was specifically that type of style. On those type of features that are already hyperfeminine. Which you just need too good to be true because they're supposedly plastic when they're not. There are plenty of women of color that have those features. Day to day. But it's always encourage that those women dummy it down. Just like you're implying here. So femininity is not allowed. Buy your own admission. For some women.

Again, go back to my link.  She was far more feminine before surgery.  Now she looks like a drag queen

[basil67]

@tdbq  I don't know if you know this, but Michael and Janet Jackson also had nose surgery to give them more 'western' noses

[basil67]

4 hours ago, tdbq said:

And women love calling me a man

Do women say you look like a man?  Or do they say you look like a man in drag?   These are two very different things

All in all, your story keeps changing and I can't keep up, so I'm out.  

[tdbq]

3 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Do women say you look like a man?  Or do they say you look like a man in drag?   These are two very different things

All in all, your story keeps changing and I can't keep up, so I'm out.  

Maybe I wasnt clear but I thought me saying that I was being feminine would imply that. I already said I dress feminine and people still say I'm a man qnd i said people think.im a feminine man or a.man trying to be feminine etc... even been told I'm too masculine to be like a fully transitioned transwoman etc... so yeah thats what i was implying all along you proved exactly what i.was.describing.too thank you

[tdbq]

Im saying even when I try to be feminine it's perceived as masculine just like you perceived Nicki minajs glam Barbie look with simply make up to be plastic and drag queen is the same thing I get doing the same thing as her and wearing a barbie glam make up look my nose looks just like herswith and without make up btw. That's how mixed people look I'm also around her color as well as I said similar features to her and megan both people are always called men if theyre overly feminine and i deal with the same issues its just like to me whats the point to fight to be the oppressed for what i just get more pain out of it

[SurfCity]

How old are you tdbq? You sound very young and easily impressionable.

You should ignore and not put importance on what other people call you or if they think you're masculine or feminine. You don't need to have surgery or take pills because of what other people think or their impressions of you.

It sounds like you don't really fit in where you live. Do you live in a small town? Are you still in high school? Are your parents from another country? If you're over 18, maybe you should move to a big city where you're more likely to meet people who are less judgemental.

You said that you're attracted to men, not attracted to women, and that if you transitioned that you would try to date gay men. It's very unlikely that gay men will date you even after any surgery or pills. You can look up the stats, that's not a realistic hope to have. A better plan would be to stop trying to fit in with these people who call you masculine and go be yourself, live your life, and make friends with genuine and nice people. Maybe move somewhere new. If you do that, there's a good possibility that you'll meet a man your age who you're attracted to and who is attracted to you, and then you two can date.

10 hours ago, tdbq said:

I already said I can do feminine things like make up and literally be told I'm a man for it be called a drag queen etc.

Sometimes when women wear too much makeup or when they wear a wig, too much makeup, and skin tight clothes, it can look masculine because that's the look that a lot of drag queens go for. People are so used to seeing that aesthetic on gay men that when a woman wears it, they think that she looks like the drag queens that they're so used to seeing dressed like that. I don't think that the opinions of the people calling you masculine can be trusted as accurate.

Try not to let other people's opinion of you change what you think about yourself, believe it or not, once you're older you won't care at all about what anyone thinks about you. 

[introverted1]

 

10 hours ago, tdbq said:

As far as physically I have high estrogen I produce estrogen earlier than other girls. At around 6. I started puberty. So I do have feminine traits. Also it's almost perceived that hyper feminine traits are masculine. I don't know why. Especially ethnic ones

This makes no sense unless, as someone else said, you are dressing and using makeup in such a way as to present as a caricature of a woman.

10 hours ago, tdbq said:

I look more similar to Nicki and Megan 

Do you think people tell Nicki that she looks like a man?  Or that she can't get a date?

I think you need to find yourself a qualified therapist and start working through your issues, which are far broader than gender dysphoria. 

[tdbq]

2 hours ago, SurfCity said:

How old are you tdbq? You sound very young and easily impressionable.

You should ignore and not put importance on what other people call you or if they think you're masculine or feminine. You don't need to have surgery or take pills because of what other people think or their impressions of you.

It sounds like you don't really fit in where you live. Do you live in a small town? Are you still in high school? Are your parents from another country? If you're over 18, maybe you should move to a big city where you're more likely to meet people who are less judgemental.

You said that you're attracted to men, not attracted to women, and that if you transitioned that you would try to date gay men. It's very unlikely that gay men will date you even after any surgery or pills. You can look up the stats, that's not a realistic hope to have. A better plan would be to stop trying to fit in with these people who call you masculine and go be yourself, live your life, and make friends with genuine and nice people. Maybe move somewhere new. If you do that, there's a good possibility that you'll meet a man your age who you're attracted to and who is attracted to you, and then you two can date.

Sometimes when women wear too much makeup or when they wear a wig, too much makeup, and skin tight clothes, it can look masculine because that's the look that a lot of drag queens go for. People are so used to seeing that aesthetic on gay men that when a woman wears it, they think that she looks like the drag queens that they're so used to seeing dressed like that. I don't think that the opinions of the people calling you masculine can be trusted as accurate.

Try not to let other people's opinion of you change what you think about yourself, believe it or not, once you're older you won't care at all about what anyone thinks about you. 

No I have always perceived myself as masculine as a man anyway I understand men much more than women id actually be more comfortable with men the only reason I decided to stay female was because of my attraction to men but I've gotten nowhere with men generally I've may be gone on two dates and even sex maybe once a year and that was pushing for it. So I feel as I've gotten nowhere with straight men it's no reason to continue to pretend basically as in every other regard I'd be more comfortable as a man. And I'm not very young I'm 30

[tdbq]

29 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

 

This makes no sense unless, as someone else said, you are dressing and using makeup in such a way as to present as a caricature of a woman.

Do you think people tell Nicki that she looks like a man?  Or that she can't get a date?

I think you need to find yourself a qualified therapist and start working through your issues, which are far broader than gender dysphoria. 

Glam Barbie look is feminine for some women just not others that's not caricature I think it's you're just not used to certain women's features but as a person who never wanted to be a woman in the first place it just doesn't really matter.

There's tons of pages dedicated to calling Nicki Minaj a drag queen or trans all you had to do is Google.

 

And the latter sounds like projection to me as well as contradiction you say first dressing like a caricature of a woman then claim people don't say Nicki Minaj is a man which you.implied in your first sentence. I think it's more you're upset you're pretty much agreeing that hyper feminine traits are seen as masculine anyway. Maybe you're uncomfortable with gender related issues especially when they backfire like you demonstrated they do.

[semble]

17 hours ago, tdbq said:

I have a dog. I've had a dog for 6 years almost

I don't have any other suggestions.

[stillafool]

3 hours ago, introverted1 said:

Do you think people tell Nicki that she looks like a man?  Or that she can't get a date?

Men are literally lining up to have sex with Nikki and Megan, and their faces nor bodies look like men.  I agree it would be best to start therapy.

[NuevoYorko]

I know many trans people who are gay.  To clarify:  a M to F "trans woman" who dates women.   So born with external sex organs of a male, but self identifies as a woman and presents to the world as a woman.  A gay woman.   

Or, a F to M "trans man" who dates men.   

It's all common.  But I live on the West Coast in a place where people who don't fall into gender or various other "norms" tend to congregate.  

I don't know where you live but you might find a comfort zone for yourself if you go where people are generally accepting of all aspects of the LGBTQ+ community.

After all is said and done, just like everyone else, you'll live your best life when and if you can be true to yourself and honor who you really are.

[FredEire]

1 minute ago, NuevoYorko said:

I know many trans people who are gay.  To clarify:  a M to F "trans woman" who dates women.   So born with external sex organs of a male, but self identifies as a woman and presents to the world as a woman.  A gay woman.   

Or, a F to M "trans man" who dates men.   

It's all common.  But I live on the West Coast in a place where people who don't fall into gender or various other "norms" tend to congregate.  

I don't know where you live but you might find a comfort zone for yourself if you go where people are generally accepting of all aspects of the LGBTQ+ community.

After all is said and done, just like everyone else, you'll live your best life when and if you can be true to yourself and honor who you really are.

It's a tricky place because most straight men won't date a pre-op trans man and most gay men won't date a trans man, but there are definitely potential partners out there for you OP, you just probably wont find many of them on regular dating apps like Tinder or in regular meeting places such as bars.

[introverted1]

You've rejected out of hand all the advice/comments provided here and keep asserting that your own perception of your situation is the only right one. There doesn't seem to be any point in trying to help you.

Good luck. 

 

[Gaeta]

4 hours ago, tdbq said:

So I feel as I've gotten nowhere with straight men it's no reason to continue to pretend basically as in every other regard I'd be more comfortable as a man.

This is no reason to change gender. People change gender because they strongly feel, through their life, they were born in the wrong body. They don't weight in if their life would be better in the other gender, it's not even an option, their conviction is stronger than anything else. 

Your theory is you did not cut it as a woman in the dating world so I might as well try to be a man. That is almost offensive toward transgenders. 

 

[ExpatInItaly]

If you're this argumentative in real life, well, there is a reason you're having trouble connecting with people.