Rejected

[BaileyB]

8 minutes ago, stillafool said:

This is the bottom line and your refusal to block all avenues to him under the guise of "I still love him and need to see his face" and that you are hurt that he's blocked you from seeing what is going on in his life says you will still get back involved with him if he wants to.

100%

One does not respond to a post that says - you need to take responsibility for your own decisions with…

But I love him, I really do. I choose him. I would move mountains to be with him. I love him and I don’t ever see that changing… if only he felt the same way…

if she wasn’t waiting for him to reappear and choose her. 

Edited Friday at 04:19 PM by BaileyB

[Jane Grey]

43 minutes ago, stillafool said:

This is the bottom line and your refusal to block all avenues to him under the guise of "I still love him and need to see his face" and that you are hurt that he's blocked you from seeing what is going on in his life says you will still get back involved with him if he wants to.

I won't! I cannot do this again - my health and sanity is in pretty dicey shape from this. I have no interest in getting back with him. I am going to stay the hell away and work on myself, boundaries and why I allowed this to happen. I want my life back - I really do. And the affair at its beat was still an anxious nightmare...I see this now. I feel me coming back and I want peace 

[Jane Grey]

Just now, Jane Grey said:

I won't! I cannot do this again - my health and sanity is in pretty dicey shape from this. I have no interest in getting back with him. I am going to stay the hell away and work on myself, boundaries and why I allowed this to happen. I want my life back - I really do. And the affair at its best was still an anxious nightmare...I see this now. I feel me coming back and I want peace

 

[Jane Grey]

38 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

100%

One does not respond to a post that says - you need to take responsibility for your own decisions with…

But I love him, I really do. I choose him. I would move mountains to be with him. I love him and I don’t ever see that changing… if only he felt the same way…

if she wasn’t waiting for him to reappear and choose her. 

But I know he will never, ever chose me! So I have to chose me! And I would have done the above for him without question and I did/do love him but this relationship has taken my peace from me and I'm done

[mark clemson]

17 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

Definitely not. Speaking as a former cheater myself, I can only say that cheating kills off attraction in the partner who is being cheated on, and sows the seeds of mistrust in the partner who is being cheated with.

I think you might be seeing causation where there is just some correlation. Some cheaters do have those attractive traits you described, specifically passionate nature, willingness to woo a woman, and a romantic (however misguided) mindset. But if such a man does not cheat, he’ll become even more desirable.

I agree with much of what you wrote BUT I'm not sure I agree that my initial point (some women find a man who's willing to cheat attractive at some level) is incorrect.

The one thing that's clearly fact and not opinion is that - despite the downsides (which are certainly real), the man being a cheater isn't problematic enough for women who become an OW.

Women and what they find attractive are certainly not uniform. I'm not sure that all these cheating men out there are all so great that women overlook the cheating aspect in order to "have" them when there are doubtless single guys who are available. That probably happens sometimes, but e.g. we had a post here about a woman who was cheating with a school bus driver. Maybe the guy was physically fit/attractive, but beyond that it's hard to see what the appeal could have been.

Maybe the single guys don't want them, but honestly I think that's not the case either. Something else is going on. In my view that something else is in fact multiple other things/a convergence of various factors. In some cases I think finding the "plays by his own rules" aspect attractive is likely one factor.

I would note that (in theory) women shouldn't find murders and hardened criminals attractive either, but in fact for better or worse a small but quite real % of women indeed do, some to the point of essentially fetishizing them. "Logically"/theoretically these men should be even more attractive if they WEREN'T criminals, but in fact that's not the case (at all, usually).

There may be women who fetishize cheating men in a similar way, but I think it goes beyond that and into a more general (BUT certainly not universal) quality of confidence/independence/playing by their own rules for men.

That's my take on it, if you don't agree - well, this is ultimately just two different opinions.

Edited Friday at 05:33 PM by mark clemson

[S2B]

Blocking him from seeing any of it is FOR YOU! So that YOU can move forward and not think of him so often! 

you do this to help yourself!

[mark clemson]

True IMO. OP, you're unlikely to find peace if you have your feelings re-triggered at random intervals by texts/other contact from him.

Maybe you aren't ready to block yet, but once you feel ready to, given your intention to end things, it's probably best that you do.

"Closure" and making peace with the breakup ultimately come from within and move at their own pace. Most of what I've read on these forums seems to indicate that renewed contacts re-trigger old feelings and are (ultimately minor) setbacks and/or emotionally distressing.

You might research the concept of "social identity". Your relationship with this man WAS a part of your social identity. (One might also say "one of your social identities" as in some views there are more than one.) It was an important one (as most significant romantic relationships are) and I don't think it serves you well to downplay that, but instead to recognize the reality (that it was).

Right now, without him, there is a "gap." That is part of what causes the emotional distress, and part of the process of "closure" will be to form a new social identity that is satisfactory to you but where he isn't present in your life. Presumably/ideally that would involve a new partner/other romantic interests, although that isn't technically a requirement.

That's the goal and I think that is where you eventually want to end up, for "contentment's sake".

Edited Friday at 05:55 PM by mark clemson

[Jane Grey]

9 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

True IMO. OP, you're unlikely to find peace if you have your feelings re-triggered at random intervals by texts/other contact from him.

Maybe you aren't ready to block yet, but once you feel ready to, given your intention to end things, it's probably best that you do.

"Closure" and making peace with the breakup ultimately come from within and move at their own pace. Most of what I've read on these forums seems to indicate that renewed contacts re-trigger old feelings and are (ultimately minor) setbacks and/or emotionally distressing.

You might research the concept of "social identity". Your relationship with this man WAS a part of your social identity. (One might also say "one of your social identities" as in some views there are more than one.) It was an important one (as most significant romantic relationships are) and I don't think it serves you well to downplay that, but instead to recognize the reality (that it was).

Right now, without him, there is a "gap." That is part of what causes the emotional distress, and part of the process of "closure" will be to form a new social identity that is satisfactory to you but where he isn't present in your life. Presumably/ideally that would involve a new partner/other romantic interests, although that isn't technically a requirement.

That's the goal and I think that is where you eventually want to end up, for "contentment's sake".

Thank you Mark  - thank you for acknowledging that it was a relationship albeit a secret one and it was 8 years with him. 

This is the first time I've laid down any kind of serious boundary with him and I see that it get me emotionally abused. I am not happy with that - I only see more of the same if I went back. 

And yes - you are perfectly right, contact wil re-trigger me and distress me. My aim is to block him. Is it wrong that I'm betting on him blocking me! God - I'm all over the place 

[Jane Grey]

29 minutes ago, S2B said:

Blocking him from seeing any of it is FOR YOU! So that YOU can move forward and not think of him so often! 

you do this to help yourself!

I see that  - thank you!!

[ExpatInItaly]

2 hours ago, Jane Grey said:

And the affair at its beat was still an anxious nightmare.

What do you think being married to this clown would be like? 

 

[Jane Grey]

3 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

What do you think being married to this clown would be like? 

 

Awful! I'd imagine it's probably awful also for his wife. Im lucky that this has happened !

[happyhorizons]

1 hour ago, Jane Grey said:

Awful! I'd imagine it's probably awful also for his wife. Im lucky that this has happened !

Very very lucky

[Jane Grey]

4 minutes ago, happyhorizons said:

Very very lucky

 

5 minutes ago, happyhorizons said:

Very very lucky

Thanks for your support! I'm a mess at the moment and all support is welcome..

[happyhorizons]

7 minutes ago, Jane Grey said:

 

Thanks for your support! I'm a mess at the moment and all support is welcome..

You are going to get through it and be so much better on the other side. Keep pushing ahead and think positive thoughts 😄

[basil67]

3 hours ago, Jane Grey said:

Is it wrong that I'm betting on him blocking me!

No, it's not wrong.  I'm assuming you're talking about social media here....even if he does block you, then he's got the ability to unblock you and reach out again and create more chaos.  This is why you need to block him - so that you're in control of the channels of communication.   Make sure to add his email address to your spam filters, and block him on your phone as well.

[stillafool]

4 hours ago, Jane Grey said:

Is it wrong that I'm betting on him blocking me! God - I'm all over the place 

Yes it is.  You are the one responsible for your heart, not him.  By saying that you know that you are still going to snoop on him.

[Jane Grey]

56 minutes ago, basil67 said:

No, it's not wrong.  I'm assuming you're talking about social media here....even if he does block you, then he's got the ability to unblock you and reach out again and create more chaos.  This is why you need to block him - so that you're in control of the channels of communication.   Make sure to add his email address to your spam filters, and block him on your phone

I'm not going to block him on social media yet - just being honest and kind of scared of the push back ill get here. I know I should, I want too and I am talking to my therapist about it. 

[Jane Grey]

15 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Yes it is.  You are the one responsible for your heart, not him.  By saying that you know that you are still going to snoop on him.

I always said I wanted to see him still...but you are right as is everyone here.  I should block 

[stillafool]

29 minutes ago, Jane Grey said:

kind of scared of the push back ill get here.

Pushback from whom?

[BaileyB]

38 minutes ago, Jane Grey said:

I know I should, I want too and I am talking to my therapist about it. 

Do it in your own time. My only comment would be, I think it’s likely wise to discuss with your therapist why you are so reluctant to close the door fully with this man who has behaved in an emotionally abusive way and hurt you. Feelings don’t just disappear, it will take time for your feelings to pass… But then again, when someone treats you with disrespect and hurts you - those feelings change and maybe they change to anger and grief - rather than love. You really do need to understand why you can’t let go… 

Edited Friday at 11:50 PM by BaileyB

[basil67]

9 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Pushback from whom?

We are complete strangers.  Yes, we might push you to block him, but it's only because we want the best for you.  There's nothing to be scared of.

And a perfect statement in response to us encouraging you is exactly what you wrote above. "Yes, I know I need to - I'm working through my reluctance with my therapist"

Edited Friday at 11:45 PM by basil67

[Gebidozo]

5 hours ago, mark clemson said:

I agree with much of what you wrote BUT I'm not sure I agree that my initial point (some women find a man who's willing to cheat attractive at some level) is incorrect.

The one thing that's clearly fact and not opinion is that - despite the downsides (which are certainly real), the man being a cheater isn't problematic enough for women who become an OW.

Women and what they find attractive are certainly not uniform. I'm not sure that all these cheating men out there are all so great that women overlook the cheating aspect in order to "have" them when there are doubtless single guys who are available. That probably happens sometimes, but e.g. we had a post here about a woman who was cheating with a school bus driver. Maybe the guy was physically fit/attractive, but beyond that it's hard to see what the appeal could have been.

Maybe the single guys don't want them, but honestly I think that's not the case either. Something else is going on. In my view that something else is in fact multiple other things/a convergence of various factors. In some cases I think finding the "plays by his own rules" aspect attractive is likely one factor.

I would note that (in theory) women shouldn't find murders and hardened criminals attractive either, but in fact for better or worse a small but quite real % of women indeed do, some to the point of essentially fetishizing them. "Logically"/theoretically these men should be even more attractive if they WEREN'T criminals, but in fact that's not the case (at all, usually).

There may be women who fetishize cheating men in a similar way, but I think it goes beyond that and into a more general (BUT certainly not universal) quality of confidence/independence/playing by their own rules for men.

That's my take on it, if you don't agree - well, this is ultimately just two different opinions.

Well, it’s certainly true that some women find cheaters or murderers attractive. The question, of course, is why.

I don’t think it has anything to do with the supposed confidence and independence of such men. I don’t know about murderers, but cheaters are notoriously insecure and weak, and we all know that women don’t find these traits attractive.

My opinion is that some women are just too naive.

A woman who sleeps with a married man believes that the man is deeply in love with her. She thinks that she alone has managed to ignite such strong passion in an otherwise fully faithful model husband. She believes that the poor man is stuck in a loveless marriage, is nobly trying to follow his duty, and fails only because she is absolutely impossible to resist. She believes that cheating is always temporary, that the man will eventually leave his wife and be fully together with her. She feels flattered and gains superficial external validation from the illusionary conviction that the man simply can’t resist her, while in reality he’s an insecure wreck who seeks his own superficial external validation in cheating.

In short, some women believe all those lies that cheating men peddle to them.

As for murderers, I think it’s a similar kind of phenomenon, only the level of brainwashing, the degree of becoming zombified by a skillful liar is even higher there. Basically, the murderer manages to present himself as an innocent person either falsely accused or misunderstood and cruelly mistreated. The woman’s innate sense of justice and compassion is then activated in a twisted way, and can grow very strong.

I’m fairly sure such infatuations can’t last forever, even when the most weak-minded women fall prey to the lies and the psychological manipulations of such men. Sooner or later, the spell will wear off.

[Alpacalia]

4 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

Well, it’s certainly true that some women find cheaters or murderers attractive. The question, of course, is why.

I don’t think it has anything to do with the supposed confidence and independence of such men. I don’t know about murderers, but cheaters are notoriously insecure and weak, and we all know that women don’t find these traits attractive.

My opinion is that some women are just too naive.

A woman who sleeps with a married man believes that the man is deeply in love with her. She thinks that she alone has managed to ignite such strong passion in an otherwise fully faithful model husband. She believes that the poor man is stuck in a loveless marriage, is nobly trying to follow his duty, and fails only because she is absolutely impossible to resist. She believes that cheating is always temporary, that the man will eventually leave his wife and be fully together with her. She feels flattered and gains superficial external validation from the illusionary conviction that the man simply can’t resist her, while in reality he’s an insecure wreck who seeks his own superficial external validation in cheating.

In short, some women believe all those lies that cheating men peddle to them.

As for murderers, I think it’s a similar kind of phenomenon, only the level of brainwashing, the degree of becoming zombified by a skillful liar is even higher there. Basically, the murderer manages to present himself as an innocent person either falsely accused or misunderstood and cruelly mistreated. The woman’s innate sense of justice and compassion is then activated in a twisted way, and can grow very strong.

I’m fairly sure such infatuations can’t last forever, even when the most weak-minded women fall prey to the lies and the psychological manipulations of such men. Sooner or later, the spell will wear off.

Some women also get a thrill out of going after married men.

[basil67]

26 minutes ago, basil67 said:

We are complete strangers.  Yes, we might push you to block him, but it's only because we want the best for you.  There's nothing to be scared of.

And a perfect statement in response to us encouraging you is exactly what you wrote above. "Yes, I know I need to - I'm working through my reluctance with my therapist"

@Jane Grey I'm actually a little concerned that you might worry about what a bunch of strangers may think of you.  Truly, you owe us nothing. NOTHING!  If we annoy you or make you feel bad, you can raise your middle finger at the screen and never come back.  You can block members who's advice doesn't work for you.  Or you can keep talking with us and working through it.  You are in 100% control here ❤️❤️

 

[Gebidozo]

20 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

Some women also get a thrill out of going after married men.

Right, there’s that type of women (and people in general, I suppose), that like to have what others have. Pathological coveting.

The reason I forgot about those is because I never encountered such women in my life. But people I know very well told me that they existed.