Author ZA Dater Posted July 9, 2024 Author Share Posted July 9, 2024 8 minutes ago, FredEire said: I have the same issue. But you have you try when it does happen. If you try and fail OK life goes on, at least you tried and there was the chance to succeed. If you never try them you have already failed. True, what I did hear recently from a friend of mine, she is also single and she complains about the quality of guys but I am exposed to a lot of the sort of people who date for economic advantage and I have to constantly remind myself not everyone is like that. I also need to somehow believe in myself, again this is easier some days than others. When you date, is there something you are looking for which makes it easier, i.e. perhaps green flags? I keep tying to tell myself to not be so specific but then someone captivates me and I'd love to date her. Then co workers try set my up with someone who really does not captivate me and I am not interested. Link to post Share on other sites
FredEire Posted July 9, 2024 Share Posted July 9, 2024 2 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: True, what I did hear recently from a friend of mine, she is also single and she complains about the quality of guys but I am exposed to a lot of the sort of people who date for economic advantage and I have to constantly remind myself not everyone is like that. I also need to somehow believe in myself, again this is easier some days than others. When you date, is there something you are looking for which makes it easier, i.e. perhaps green flags? I keep tying to tell myself to not be so specific but then someone captivates me and I'd love to date her. Then co workers try set my up with someone who really does not captivate me and I am not interested. Well in my case I'm on this forum because I'm particularly attracted to red flags and people it never seems to work out with haha. But I like the insight of reading other people's experiences. I believe what you should be looking for if you want a good long term relationship are good communication, trust, aligned goals, personal and sexual chemistry, in no particular order. You don't have to pay any mind to who your co workers try to set you up with. Unfortunately it seems like you're involved in a high flying business sphere which is going to contain loads of sugar daddies and their daddy-issue riddled gold digging girlfriends. I think it's a good idea to get out of your comfort zone and into other social groups where you may find more genuine people. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZA Dater Posted July 9, 2024 Author Share Posted July 9, 2024 3 hours ago, FredEire said: Well in my case I'm on this forum because I'm particularly attracted to red flags and people it never seems to work out with haha. But I like the insight of reading other people's experiences. I believe what you should be looking for if you want a good long term relationship are good communication, trust, aligned goals, personal and sexual chemistry, in no particular order. You don't have to pay any mind to who your co workers try to set you up with. Unfortunately it seems like you're involved in a high flying business sphere which is going to contain loads of sugar daddies and their daddy-issue riddled gold digging girlfriends. I think it's a good idea to get out of your comfort zone and into other social groups where you may find more genuine people. The problem is what I am looking for seems to change by the day, there's someone I really like but again it's getting my mind around that maybe I am good enough despite almost no real interest shown by her, other than to get me to help with certain things which I do because again who doesn't like that attention. Your English student example is very relevant. Good friend of mine has lots of casual fun, he's got the looks to attract people who want the same. I sometimes wonder what it would be like to be in that position. To be fair I'd rather date someone who is sort of used to this social circle but again maybe that's not fair. How did you work out what you wanted? Link to post Share on other sites
FredEire Posted July 9, 2024 Share Posted July 9, 2024 28 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: The problem is what I am looking for seems to change by the day, there's someone I really like but again it's getting my mind around that maybe I am good enough despite almost no real interest shown by her, other than to get me to help with certain things which I do because again who doesn't like that attention. Your English student example is very relevant. Good friend of mine has lots of casual fun, he's got the looks to attract people who want the same. I sometimes wonder what it would be like to be in that position. To be fair I'd rather date someone who is sort of used to this social circle but again maybe that's not fair. How did you work out what you wanted? Haha I'm not there yet man, there's still a lot of work I have to do. But what I know Ive got to know through having experiences, going out and meeting people, getting in touch with my sexuality etc. I don't think it would be the worst think in the world if you had some no strings attached encounters, even if you don't find the woman particularly gorgeous. I think it would help you get more comfortable with women, help you get in touch with your sexuality etc. Then again casual isn't everyone's bag and I respect that. But for a chronic overthinker with limited experience I think it could be good if managed right. Link to post Share on other sites
semble Posted July 9, 2024 Share Posted July 9, 2024 In before the lock! That is all, carry on. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZA Dater Posted July 9, 2024 Author Share Posted July 9, 2024 36 minutes ago, FredEire said: Haha I'm not there yet man, there's still a lot of work I have to do. But what I know Ive got to know through having experiences, going out and meeting people, getting in touch with my sexuality etc. I don't think it would be the worst think in the world if you had some no strings attached encounters, even if you don't find the woman particularly gorgeous. I think it would help you get more comfortable with women, help you get in touch with your sexuality etc. Then again casual isn't everyone's bag and I respect that. But for a chronic overthinker with limited experience I think it could be good if managed right. Sure, just never considered NSA encounters as something I'd want, granted I have tried to find them (mainly because dating was not really working) before but not being particularly charismatic/fun/confident/good looking usually means I end up going along the thinking pattern of "friends" because relatively speaking I see more value in myself there and most people are not going to sleep with their friends. Then again the people I'd want to have NSA encounters with would not look at me so there is that problem lol! Is it wrong to equate dates I have been on as experience? What I tend to do and this applies to a lot of things is be very specific what I like, which I guess is not ideal either. For a while I would go into a specific coffee shop each day and the lady behind the counter would what to me be defined as flirt with me, this felt great until I sat down and had lunch there and realised she did it with everyone so my judgement was clearly off. Do you think your judgement has got better with time? Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZA Dater Posted July 14, 2024 Author Share Posted July 14, 2024 So I took whatever confidence I could find and after watching a few so called advice videos I tried with the view of matching confidence with positivity. In truth the results were no better, there's just a fundamental lack of interest/attraction I can't seem to overcome. It's back to square one and I'm fighting that feeling of uselessness again. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZA Dater Posted July 17, 2024 Author Share Posted July 17, 2024 I decided to try again today, taking for better or worse some advice I saw on some supposed dating guru's channel. Perhaps the result will be a bit different this time and I did something I never do, I confided in a fried how much I am struggling looking around at everyone else with partners and kids while I am chronically lonely. Cant say the advice I got was much help, basically successful business people also get divorced. I did however feel a bit better simply for confiding in someone. I also asked someone I do like to join me at an event, hours later no response to this invitation which I guess is typical. Can just go one day at a time and if I need to delude myself to feel better I'll have to do that. Link to post Share on other sites
semble Posted July 18, 2024 Share Posted July 18, 2024 It appears that no one wants to listen to you go on and on incessantly whining about the same old failures, your constant and unrelenting negative attitude and perpetual self sabotaging approach coupled with complete and utter refusal to accept even the smallest modicum of well intended advice from countless posters over 100s if not thousands of threads and posts. My sympathies. Mostly for those that tried to help. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
FredEire Posted July 18, 2024 Share Posted July 18, 2024 The only think I can say is you need to bin this thinking and ruminating. Your answer is in doing, trying and failing and learning. This endless introspection and ruminating will only make you go in circles forever. You're ready to try, today. Sign up to some events in your area, go and chat to some women and if you like them ask them on a date. If they say no who cares, just pick yourself up and try again. Despite the hundreds of posts, the answer is really really simple. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZA Dater Posted July 18, 2024 Author Share Posted July 18, 2024 4 hours ago, FredEire said: The only think I can say is you need to bin this thinking and ruminating. Your answer is in doing, trying and failing and learning. This endless introspection and ruminating will only make you go in circles forever. You're ready to try, today. Sign up to some events in your area, go and chat to some women and if you like them ask them on a date. If they say no who cares, just pick yourself up and try again. Despite the hundreds of posts, the answer is really really simple. Thanks been to some, was just a repeat of every other attempt I had to find a date. My confidence is simply not there and no matter how hard I try it's so obvious I lack confidence, heck I was thinking about posts on this forum while sitting there. Sure there was some conversation but again no attraction for me so I just went into business mode. I'm trying each day to feel a bit better, try to ignore the very obvious narrative but to do that I need to prove to myself the narrative is wrong. I've got a other solo dinner where everyone else had a partner so once again I'll have to put on that mask of " being ok and nothing wrong'. Link to post Share on other sites
FredEire Posted July 18, 2024 Share Posted July 18, 2024 14 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: Thanks been to some, was just a repeat of every other attempt I had to find a date. My confidence is simply not there and no matter how hard I try it's so obvious I lack confidence, heck I was thinking about posts on this forum while sitting there. Sure there was some conversation but again no attraction for me so I just went into business mode. I'm trying each day to feel a bit better, try to ignore the very obvious narrative but to do that I need to prove to myself the narrative is wrong. I've got a other solo dinner where everyone else had a partner so once again I'll have to put on that mask of " being ok and nothing wrong'. That's why you have to keep trying, keep falling down. Yes maybe you suck at finding dates right now but the only way to not suck is to fail and fail and fail again and keep learning until you succeed. I'm sorry but no amount of thinking about posts on here or watching some guru's YouTube videos will bring you success. It simply won't work. Unfortunately when you get older if you never tried you'll be hit with the the reality that it was because you were cowardly and never had the guts to just try and see what happened. Even if you went out and got rejected 200,000 times you'd be much better off than your current position, because you at least had an attempt. But I could almost guarantee that wouldn't happen because courage is really attractive and somewhere along the line you would meet someone. I used to think similarly in that rejection would do too much damage to my ego, but the mistake was thinking that my ego shouldn't be damaged. In truth it was a much lesser stronger ego than it is now and by destroying it you allow a newer better one to emerge by simply just saying "f*** it". If you make enough attempts even if you fail and fail and fail again I guarantee at some time you would end up feeling, "you know what I'm proud of myself for trying". I also think I can probably speak for most people here in that we'd probably much rather read your post about you approaching some woman and her rejecting you, because we could see where you maybe fell short and help you to improve. It gives us something to work with, but this endless circular thinking doesn't. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZA Dater Posted July 18, 2024 Author Share Posted July 18, 2024 2 hours ago, FredEire said: That's why you have to keep trying, keep falling down. Yes maybe you suck at finding dates right now but the only way to not suck is to fail and fail and fail again and keep learning until you succeed. I'm sorry but no amount of thinking about posts on here or watching some guru's YouTube videos will bring you success. It simply won't work. Unfortunately when you get older if you never tried you'll be hit with the the reality that it was because you were cowardly and never had the guts to just try and see what happened. Even if you went out and got rejected 200,000 times you'd be much better off than your current position, because you at least had an attempt. But I could almost guarantee that wouldn't happen because courage is really attractive and somewhere along the line you would meet someone. I used to think similarly in that rejection would do too much damage to my ego, but the mistake was thinking that my ego shouldn't be damaged. In truth it was a much lesser stronger ego than it is now and by destroying it you allow a newer better one to emerge by simply just saying "f*** it". If you make enough attempts even if you fail and fail and fail again I guarantee at some time you would end up feeling, "you know what I'm proud of myself for trying". I also think I can probably speak for most people here in that we'd probably much rather read your post about you approaching some woman and her rejecting you, because we could see where you maybe fell short and help you to improve. It gives us something to work with, but this endless circular thinking doesn't. I do not regret going to those events. Your opinion I respect greatly as I do the opinions offered here. A few weeks ago I sat down with a clean piece of paper and I wrote down every single time I tried to date (mostly), I needed quite a few pages, then for the sake of trying to inject some positive in this I highlighted the ones where I genuinely enjoyed the person and the experience, there were very few. I then did the same thing with the people I wanted to date but who simply showed zero interest in me, on balance I enjoyed spending time with those people much more. There is someone I find amazing, I enjoy spending time with her, I can be me, we can talk about anything and you know what she is not even the slightest bit interested in me, why would she be in a world of FAR better choices than me. You tell me what there is to work with there? If I listen carefully enough I can hear the 'league" choir break into chorus. At the moment I am trying to figure how I get someone who is clearly not interested in me to be interested in me, which lets face it is almost impossible, unless someone here has some ideas? Link to post Share on other sites
Gaeta Posted July 18, 2024 Share Posted July 18, 2024 1 hour ago, ZA Dater said: At the moment I am trying to figure how I get someone who is clearly not interested in me to be interested in me, which lets face it is almost impossible, unless someone here has some ideas? So we're back to same old, same old. How to get an uninterested woman interested. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
FredEire Posted July 18, 2024 Share Posted July 18, 2024 2 hours ago, ZA Dater said: I do not regret going to those events. Your opinion I respect greatly as I do the opinions offered here. A few weeks ago I sat down with a clean piece of paper and I wrote down every single time I tried to date (mostly), I needed quite a few pages, then for the sake of trying to inject some positive in this I highlighted the ones where I genuinely enjoyed the person and the experience, there were very few. I then did the same thing with the people I wanted to date but who simply showed zero interest in me, on balance I enjoyed spending time with those people much more. There is someone I find amazing, I enjoy spending time with her, I can be me, we can talk about anything and you know what she is not even the slightest bit interested in me, why would she be in a world of FAR better choices than me. You tell me what there is to work with there? If I listen carefully enough I can hear the 'league" choir break into chorus. At the moment I am trying to figure how I get someone who is clearly not interested in me to be interested in me, which lets face it is almost impossible, unless someone here has some ideas? But the pattern you have is you try to date people you don't like, sometimes they like you back, and you see it as a waste of time. Then the people you like you think have zero interest, so you don't even try. Why not try to date the people you are interested in, and may be surprised some have more interest when you actually try Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted July 18, 2024 Share Posted July 18, 2024 3 hours ago, ZA Dater said: At the moment I am trying to figure how I get someone who is clearly not interested in me to be interested in me, which lets face it is almost impossible, unless someone here has some ideas? Imagine a woman is interested in you, but you find her unattractive and dull. What would it take for you to become interested in her? <----- This is your answer 1 Link to post Share on other sites
happyhorizons Posted July 19, 2024 Share Posted July 19, 2024 On 7/2/2024 at 4:55 AM, ZA Dater said: How do you move ahead but disconnect yourself from the end result? Say for example I meet someone I get along well with from a conversational point of view, my usual approach would be to try weight what chance she might actually be interested and then tailor my approach according to that, which mostly means go for friends. False confidence, does this work hand and in hand with trying to ignore the end result? I absolutely need to find confidence here be it genuine or false. Do you bring judgement into how you react or do you simply base it on the emotions at the time, by this I mean do you try envisage how the interaction may play out? How much vulnerability should a person show? The reason I ask is I have quite a number of events, dinners and suchlike and I am tired of going to all these on my own and I thought about asking someone I know to a degree with the view nothing will come of it but in the back of my mind maybe this would present an opportunity for me try break my regimented and flawed way of thinking and see what might happen. No OLD has been a refreshing change for me and I've started to feel a bit better about myself. ZA, it's important that you be confident (not arrogant) and project a good image of yourself. When you meet someone GIVE IT A LITTLE TIME and just be yourself and see where it goes as opposed to THINKING about 1,000 things. Let things evolve naturally and TRY to have some fun along the way. Dude, YOU CAN DO IT. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZA Dater Posted July 19, 2024 Author Share Posted July 19, 2024 5 hours ago, happyhorizons said: ZA, it's important that you be confident (not arrogant) and project a good image of yourself. When you meet someone GIVE IT A LITTLE TIME and just be yourself and see where it goes as opposed to THINKING about 1,000 things. Let things evolve naturally and TRY to have some fun along the way. Dude, YOU CAN DO IT. Thanks for the confidence, it is appreciated. This was one of the times where I felt I had a reasonable chance simply because the in person communication is so good but once again it has not worked at all. Every single time I've met this person I've enjoyed her company immensely but evidently by the lack of interest in meeting again it's clear she is not interested. Confidence....it's my daily battle but I'm trying. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZA Dater Posted July 19, 2024 Author Share Posted July 19, 2024 8 hours ago, Gaeta said: So we're back to same old, same old. How to get an uninterested woman interested. What is the answer? I'm not trying to be obtuse here. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZA Dater Posted July 19, 2024 Author Share Posted July 19, 2024 7 hours ago, FredEire said: But the pattern you have is you try to date people you don't like, sometimes they like you back, and you see it as a waste of time. Then the people you like you think have zero interest, so you don't even try. Why not try to date the people you are interested in, and may be surprised some have more interest when you actually try Small correction I've tried with people who are interested in me and I am not interested in. Every single time I've tried with people I am interested in it's never worked, irrespective what I have tried. Even when I summon up all the confidence I can find, even when I completely open up. Not sure what else I am can do? Heck I've even tried to use humour before, granted it's dry humour but I've tried that. Another thing I've tried is small talk, keep the conversation light. I always display good manners, door opening, walking them to their car texting to find out if they are home safe. The people I like it's not like I'm putting effort to get them to bed because to be honest I don't know how, I try to show interest by being engaged, remembering details, taking an interest. Again what more should I do? Link to post Share on other sites
FredEire Posted July 19, 2024 Share Posted July 19, 2024 (edited) 3 hours ago, ZA Dater said: Small correction I've tried with people who are interested in me and I am not interested in. Every single time I've tried with people I am interested in it's never worked, irrespective what I have tried. Even when I summon up all the confidence I can find, even when I completely open up. Not sure what else I am can do? Heck I've even tried to use humour before, granted it's dry humour but I've tried that. Another thing I've tried is small talk, keep the conversation light. I always display good manners, door opening, walking them to their car texting to find out if they are home safe. The people I like it's not like I'm putting effort to get them to bed because to be honest I don't know how, I try to show interest by being engaged, remembering details, taking an interest. Again what more should I do? Try and try and try again. You only need it to work once. It seems when you get rejected it makes you question your entire being, which ironically is deeply unattractive and a big part of the reason you're getting rejected. I think most of the reason you're only attracting people you don't like is because you have very low self-esteem, so the only women you'll attract also have very low self-esteem i.e. aren't very attractive either, because a confident attractive woman won't want to date someone who is going to fold at the slightest setback. The only way you can build self-esteem is to fail and fail and then one day you stop caring and another day you realise "hey I'm actually having a bit of success". Edited July 19, 2024 by FredEire 1 Link to post Share on other sites
FredEire Posted July 19, 2024 Share Posted July 19, 2024 Something that's given me a lot of these realisations has been practising Brazilian jiu-jitsu. In many ways it's like a mirror for life. When I started I was absolutely crap, awful. Everyone used to toy around with me for the best part of a year and I just wasn't getting the concepts or able to execute any of the techniques. There were other people in the class who were younger and more talented and just had an instinct on how to do it and progressed a lot faster. It seemed so unfair and demoralising, and it is! But I just kept going and going and eventually I've learned a lot and am able to do most things pretty decently, the secret was just turning up and continually failing and learning. Dating is the same. Are others going to have a natural charm and ability that you don't possess? Yes. Is that fair? Absolutely not. But for everything you might lack just turning up and trying over and over again is going to make you better, it just is. Sitting back and crying about how unfair it all is will get you nowhere, you can only do your very best with the hand you're given. One thing I'm certain you're able to do is just go for it, balls to the wall. Go out and meet loads of people, ask out loads of women and be conscious of how the experience was and what you could maybe do better next time if you get rejected. That's your solution right there, I'm sure of it. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZA Dater Posted July 19, 2024 Author Share Posted July 19, 2024 7 minutes ago, FredEire said: Try and try and try again. You only need it to work once. It seems when you get rejected it makes you question your entire being, which ironically is deeply unattractive and a big part of the reason you're getting rejected. I think most of the reason you're only attracting people you don't like is because you have very low self-esteem, so the only women you'll attract also have very low self-esteem i.e. aren't very attractive either, because a confident attractive woman won't want to date someone who is going to fold at the slightest setback. The only way you can build self-esteem is to fail and fail and then one day you stop caring and another day you realise "hey I'm actually having a bit of success". Not sure I agree but clearly you have insights I do not. The fact its not worked in 20 odd years I suppose I should just ignore that. Trust me I tend to spend most days metaphorically fighting, primarily for the benefit of others but I get into those fights because I have some degree of confidence I can work the problem and overcome it. When I have an attractive lady in front of me and we communicate well and the conversation just flows then part of me senses 'ok this is going well but what now". Are you suggesting I keep trying with the same person? I once asked about sending someone I liked a gift, the forum told me that was a bad idea, I saw nothing wrong with the idea, granted Id tried it with other people in the past and it never really got any positive reaction. How do you measure success? Link to post Share on other sites
FredEire Posted July 19, 2024 Share Posted July 19, 2024 11 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: Not sure I agree but clearly you have insights I do not. The fact its not worked in 20 odd years I suppose I should just ignore that. Trust me I tend to spend most days metaphorically fighting, primarily for the benefit of others but I get into those fights because I have some degree of confidence I can work the problem and overcome it. When I have an attractive lady in front of me and we communicate well and the conversation just flows then part of me senses 'ok this is going well but what now". Are you suggesting I keep trying with the same person? I once asked about sending someone I liked a gift, the forum told me that was a bad idea, I saw nothing wrong with the idea, granted Id tried it with other people in the past and it never really got any positive reaction. How do you measure success? I think a lot of it comes down to you building complex narratives in your head when you are none. It should be really simple every time. You meet a woman you like -> you chat to her for a while -> you ask her out on a date such as coffee lunch or a walk. That's it. I think the forum reacted badly to that because a gift is something you give typically to someone you're already dating. If you're just at the very beginning of something don't overcomplicate it. Personally I admire people who actively try a lot. Many times they will end up doing better in the long run than someone with natural ability who just coasts along because put in a lot more thoughtful effort. Most of your encounters that you post on this forum are based on orbiting around some woman you admire and have a business connection with and you agonise over some way to approach her without ever really doing it and then bemoaning how nobody is ever into you. You need to just cut the crap and do it as soon as you see an opportunity. Take the plunge, ask her out for coffee. She says no? That's ok, meet someone else and try again. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZA Dater Posted July 19, 2024 Author Share Posted July 19, 2024 (edited) 27 minutes ago, FredEire said: I think a lot of it comes down to you building complex narratives in your head when you are none. It should be really simple every time. You meet a woman you like -> you chat to her for a while -> you ask her out on a date such as coffee lunch or a walk. That's it. I think the forum reacted badly to that because a gift is something you give typically to someone you're already dating. If you're just at the very beginning of something don't overcomplicate it. Personally I admire people who actively try a lot. Many times they will end up doing better in the long run than someone with natural ability who just coasts along because put in a lot more thoughtful effort. Most of your encounters that you post on this forum are based on orbiting around some woman you admire and have a business connection with and you agonise over some way to approach her without ever really doing it and then bemoaning how nobody is ever into you. You need to just cut the crap and do it as soon as you see an opportunity. Take the plunge, ask her out for coffee. She says no? That's ok, meet someone else and try again. Therein lies a fundamental issue, there are very, very, very few people who interest me. Its always been like this, even when I was younger, people around me what seemingly chase anyone, I've always been specific about the type of person I find attractive. I guess this is really not very helpful either but its always been the case and considering I tend to think everything through its really no one thing which makes these people attractive, its a collective. (For what its worth I've asked her to coffee more than once). Agreed on thoughtful effort and I'm glad you raise that point because everyone around me always remarks I am thoughtful, its not like I have a completely bad hand of cards at dating, well in theory anyway. The hardest thing for me to do is get out of my shell but I do try when I am around people I do find attractive but I need to fight on two sides, one being shyness and the other being awkwardness, sometimes I win and sometimes I do not. I'll keep trying with the person I do like but I am honestly out of ideas. Edited July 19, 2024 by ZA Dater Link to post Share on other sites
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