Is this totally flawed

[FredEire]

6 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Therein lies a fundamental issue, there are very, very, very few people who interest me. Its always been like this, even when I was younger, people around me what seemingly chase anyone, I've always been specific about the type of person I find attractive. I guess this is really not very helpful either but its always been the case and considering I tend to think everything through its really no one thing which makes these people attractive, its a collective.

(For what its worth I've asked her to coffee more than once).

Agreed on thoughtful effort and I'm glad you raise that point because everyone around me always remarks I am thoughtful, its not like I have a completely bad hand of cards at dating, well in theory anyway. 

The hardest thing for me to do is get out of my shell but I do try when I am around people I do find attractive but I need to fight on two sides, one being shyness and the other being awkwardness, sometimes I win and sometimes I do not.

I'll keep trying with the person I do like but I am honestly out of ideas. 

I'm in the same boat, but the more people you meet, the more of those you will find attractive. It's a numbers game. Another thing you've said in this forum is you don't meet many people.

I'd also advise you if you ask someone out directly and they say no or ignore it, don't waste any more of your time and energy on it, just move on.

[ZA Dater]

5 minutes ago, FredEire said:

I'm in the same boat, but the more people you meet, the more of those you will find attractive. It's a numbers game. Another thing you've said in this forum is you don't meet many people.

I'd also advise you if you ask someone out directly and they say no or ignore it, don't waste any more of your time and energy on it, just move on.

Never found that to be honest, the more I meet the fewer I find attractive/am interested in. I then end up looking around and the same social patters I saw at these social events become very apparent. 

If I did not really, really like this person it would be easy to move on....

[FredEire]

34 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Never found that to be honest, the more I meet the fewer I find attractive/am interested in. I then end up looking around and the same social patters I saw at these social events become very apparent. 

If I did not really, really like this person it would be easy to move on....

I would say that's unusual. Is it possible that interest turns you off?

It doesn't matter how much you like her, if she isn't interested there's no point spending a second more effort on it.

[Gaeta]

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

What is the answer? I'm not trying to be obtuse here. 

• "Change the way you look at things and the things you look at change." – Wayne Dyer

[ZA Dater]

Just now, FredEire said:

I would say that's unusual. Is it possible that interest turns you off?

It doesn't matter how much you like her, if she isn't interested there's no point spending a second more effort on it.

Then there is my inability to give up.....which is frankly a curse in this situation. I will probably simply need to try go friend zone. Bottom line is I tried and got nowhere, there is no sugar coating it.

Honestly when I go to some function and there is say someone really dressed up, looking beautiful I simply know she is not single so I do not bother looking further. Experience has told me that this is always the case. While I meet few people, I never meet single people and when I did go to these social events, I simply knew there is no way I cam compete with the guys there in terms of things that ladies actually find attractive.

I have tried new styles, wearing things that do sort of make me feel more confident and there is some feel good there. I've taken some of the forum advice and do try and smile and your specific advice and try use humor both of which did help the interaction with this specific person.

Maybe I can rationalize it and think of it like, I have at least met one person where it does work, even if she is not interested in. A bit like someone who cant go to Bora Bora looks at a picture and imagine how nice it would be sit on that beach.

[ZA Dater]

4 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

• "Change the way you look at things and the things you look at change." – Wayne Dyer

Ok, do elaborate? I love the level of engagement and warmth when I talk to her, I love the way the conversation flow but clearly its one sided. How do I look at this differently?

At no time in my life have I ever felt like I was attractive to someone I found attractive, how do I reframe that?

[Gaeta]

33 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Ok, do elaborate? I love the level of engagement and warmth when I talk to her, I love the way the conversation flow but clearly its one sided. How do I look at this differently?

At no time in my life have I ever felt like I was attractive to someone I found attractive, how do I reframe that?

You need to deprogram the way you look at women, courtship, attraction, the dating game. 

If you like a woman then ask her out on a date. Tell her I like you I'd like to ask you out on a date. Stop searching a way to win her over with some dating prouesses. That does not exist. People connect or they don't. She rejects you? move on to next. 

Your beleive that you can change how someone feels, that keeps you where you are! Stop

[happyhorizons]

3 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

You need to deprogram the way you look at women, courtship, attraction, the dating game. 

If you like a woman then ask her out on a date. Tell her I like you I'd like to ask you out on a date. Stop searching a way to win her over with some dating prouesses. That does not exist. People connect or they don't. She rejects you? move on to next. 

Your beleive that you can change how someone feels, that keeps you where you are! Stop

I love this ^^. Dating should be FUN and exciting and not some tension filled experience. HAVE FUN, go cool places, engage in interesting conversations and treat HER great. Stop putting so much pressure on yourself. You’re not trying to qualify for the Olympics you’re just going on a date.🤞🤞

[ZA Dater]

36 minutes ago, happyhorizons said:

I love this ^^. Dating should be FUN and exciting and not some tension filled experience. HAVE FUN, go cool places, engage in interesting conversations and treat HER great. Stop putting so much pressure on yourself. You’re not trying to qualify for the Olympics you’re just going on a date.🤞🤞

I have never gotten this point with anyone I have found attractive. Basically I cant ever get the dates.

[ZA Dater]

44 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

You need to deprogram the way you look at women, courtship, attraction, the dating game. 

If you like a woman then ask her out on a date. Tell her I like you I'd like to ask you out on a date. Stop searching a way to win her over with some dating prouesses. That does not exist. People connect or they don't. She rejects you? move on to next. 

Your beleive that you can change how someone feels, that keeps you where you are! Stop

And I get rejected each and every time. I really do value your advice and you are not wrong at all, thing is its almost impossible to find the next, I can go years without meeting anyone I am interested in who would actually be viable to date. Sure I met someone last year, great conversation, attractive but she does mushrooms and goes to trance parties so hardly compatible.

What if I do as has been suggested by a close friend of mine, just try create some sort of friendship with people I think are compatible but who are not interested in me, he keeps suggesting this but I really do not think it works?

[Gebidozo]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

What if I do as has been suggested by a close friend of mine, just try create some sort of friendship with people I think are compatible but who are not interested in me, he keeps suggesting this but I really do not think it works?

You’re right, and your friend is wrong. The moment you go into the “friendship” zone, you kill off romantic interest. You need to be daring, assertive, confident, and have zero self-conscience. Basically, just keep trying and don’t feel bad at all when you’re rejected. Remember, you only need one person to love you. It doesn’t matter at all if you fail with 99 women, if the 100th woman loves you you’re the winner.

[Gaeta]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I can go years without meeting anyone I am interested in

That's another thing you need to change --- > your perception of what is attractive. Attraction is supposed to evolve like the rest of us. What I found attractive at 20, 30, 40, is not what I find attractive today because I evolved as a human being. I am more flexible with a person size,  job,  education. I seek a connection. I found it in men 6'4'' and I also found it in men 5'7''. I found it in men my culture and other cultures. I found it in of all walks of life like electricians or doctors. I found it in extroverts and in introverts. The world is full of surprises when you open yourself to it. You, my friend, are stuck. You are stuck in the little box you put yourself in. And you don't want to unstuck yourself. 

Your friend does not know women. Once a woman has put you in the friendzone, you don't get out of it. 

[FredEire]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I have never gotten this point with anyone I have found attractive. Basically I cant ever get the dates.

I mean no offence but you don't particularly come across as someone who has much fun or brings a sense of fun to others on this forum.

You have to open yourself to being playful first in your own life and then you leave the door open to attract others who want to play with you, including attractive women.

Have you ever done any comedy open mics? There's nothing quite like it for destroying neuroticism and taking yourself too seriously.

[FredEire]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Then there is my inability to give up.....which is frankly a curse in this situation. I will probably simply need to try go friend zone. Bottom line is I tried and got nowhere, there is no sugar coating it.

Honestly when I go to some function and there is say someone really dressed up, looking beautiful I simply know she is not single so I do not bother looking further. Experience has told me that this is always the case. While I meet few people, I never meet single people and when I did go to these social events, I simply knew there is no way I cam compete with the guys there in terms of things that ladies actually find attractive.

I have tried new styles, wearing things that do sort of make me feel more confident and there is some feel good there. I've taken some of the forum advice and do try and smile and your specific advice and try use humor both of which did help the interaction with this specific person.

Maybe I can rationalize it and think of it like, I have at least met one person where it does work, even if she is not interested in. A bit like someone who cant go to Bora Bora looks at a picture and imagine how nice it would be sit on that beach.

I know... I know... I know... The truth is its plain to see that you know very little.

Accept it and it will be a weight off your shoulders.

[ZA Dater]

13 minutes ago, FredEire said:

I mean no offence but you don't particularly come across as someone who has much fun or brings a sense of fun to others on this forum.

You have to open yourself to being playful first in your own life and then you leave the door open to attract others who want to play with you, including attractive women.

Have you ever done any comedy open mics? There's nothing quite like it for destroying neuroticism and taking yourself too seriously.

I am not fun and never likely to be. What I am is the person who will walk to the end of the earth for those he cares about, I am the guy who is loyal to fault and puts others ahead of him. Nothing I do on any given day is funny in any shape or form, finance is simply not funny unfortunately. 

[ZA Dater]

37 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

That's another thing you need to change --- > your perception of what is attractive. Attraction is supposed to evolve like the rest of us. What I found attractive at 20, 30, 40, is not what I find attractive today because I evolved as a human being. I am more flexible with a person size,  job,  education. I seek a connection. I found it in men 6'4'' and I also found it in men 5'7''. I found it in men my culture and other cultures. I found it in of all walks of life like electricians or doctors. I found it in extroverts and in introverts. The world is full of surprises when you open yourself to it. You, my friend, are stuck. You are stuck in the little box you put yourself in. And you don't want to unstuck yourself. 

Your friend does not know women. Once a woman has put you in the friendzone, you don't get out of it. 

How do I reconcile that seemingly everyone around me is dating/married to people they find attractive? My level of attraction has evolved to the sense I'd consider someone slightly older assuming she does not have kids and has a successful career. 

Do you find what you find attractive is based on what you have fund unattractive in the past? 

For me attraction is incredibly difficult to explain, its either there or its not, I know almost immediately if I find a person attractive or not. I met someone 4 years ago (she was not single at the time ) and was immediately attracted, four years later and she is single, she still is not interested in me. 

Part of me thinks that maybe I could be attractive to someone if they spent enough time with me but that is hardly fair on them and not really the way the world works! 

As for my friend, he dates with absolute ease, in most cases he attracts people easily and going out with him I feel even more useless because his charisma sees him get all the attention and well I get none. Again its how the world works seemingly. Part me thinks he suggests being friends with them simply because he knows I'd never have a romantic chance with the people I do find attractive.

For a project I am working on I went out quite a bit on the own for an extended time, bars, clubs, lots of them and it was deeply unpleasant but I did it because I wanted to see what it would be like. To a much lesser extent I wanted to see if I could attract anyone and this is where I learnt not being fun and not drinking are not particularly helpful.

 

[Gebidozo]

11 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Nothing I do on any given day is funny in any shape or form, finance is simply not funny unfortunately. 

Nonsense, my friend. My best friend is very successful in the world of finances, he is a businessman and also one of the funniest guys I know. Confident, kind, caring, strong, independent, and funny. Needless to say women just love him. 

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, Gebidozo said:

You’re right, and your friend is wrong. The moment you go into the “friendship” zone, you kill off romantic interest. You need to be daring, assertive, confident, and have zero self-conscience. Basically, just keep trying and don’t feel bad at all when you’re rejected. Remember, you only need one person to love you. It doesn’t matter at all if you fail with 99 women, if the 100th woman loves you you’re the winner.

I sadly have none of those qualities at all at dating. I've got them in facets of life where I know I can get a positive outcome because I have felt that positivity. I had one person apparently love me but I felt nothing, honestly I felt nothing and I spent eight months racked with guilt because I did not feel anything at all. I meet one person and in a three hour conversation feel a lot more, feel that magnetic attraction which feels so good but is so rare, for me at least.

How do you overcome a sense you cannot compete with other guys? 

Everyone seemed to have such fun in their 20s and 30's and I never seemed to get the attention they did, imagine going out and basically being invisible, that is what I feel most of time.

[Gebidozo]

6 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

My level of attraction has evolved to the sense I'd consider someone slightly older assuming she does not have kids and has a successful career. 

That’s already wrong. 

Attraction should be based on sexual and spiritual criteria, not on whether someone has kids or career. If these are your criteria then it can’t be considered real attraction at all, it’s just an artificial construct of the mind.

[ZA Dater]

2 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

Nonsense, my friend. My best friend is very successful in the world of finances, he is a businessman and also one of the funniest guys I know. Confident, kind, caring, strong, independent, and funny. Needless to say women just love him. 

Sounds like we have the same best friend! I have dry humor that and self deprecating humor, again with the right person I do not mind being laughed at. What this forum has taught me is to value who I am and I try to do that each day. The other thing I try each day and keep this mask of "everything is ok" on and sure I try talk to people but its not like I am meeting people who I want to date.

I went to these socials in the hope I might but once again I was invisible and unrelatable. 

All this being said, two days ago I invited this lady I do like to an event next month. Worst case for her she can use the event to network so again I am offering up something. Best case for me I have a plus 1 of sorts with something I enjoy spending time with, assuming she agrees to attend.

I am trying to find the positive spin here.

[Gebidozo]

2 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

How do you overcome a sense you cannot compete with other guys? 

Simple, you don’t compete at all, you work on yourself, become an attractive version of yourself. This is not a “me vs. other guys” thing, it’s about maximizing your attractiveness and looking precisely for women who fall for that.

I never competed with other men, I absolutely don’t care if some other guys go to clubs or whatever and rack up higher numbers than myself (even though my numbers aren’t really low, per se). They are playing in their environment, I’m playing in mine. They are looking for “their” women, I’m looking for “mine”. They might have higher quantity, I couldn’t care less, it’s the quality I care about, the compatibility with me, with what I have to offer.

[ZA Dater]

3 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

That’s already wrong. 

Attraction should be based on sexual and spiritual criteria, not on whether someone has kids or career. If these are your criteria then it can’t be considered real attraction at all, it’s just an artificial construct of the mind.

I am not interested in dating people with kids. Its a total deal killer for me in every single aspect, likewise I am not interested in dating people who are by their own assertion successful at what they do. I'm very attracted to the career type lady who does not want kids, why because my mind revolves around work most of the time, which might explain the lack of "fun".

There are reasons for both of these criteria, I've met too many single mothers who moan about their ex husbands not paying child support, moan about their ex husbands, I've met too many people who moan about their careers and lack ambition.

What would sexual and spiritual criteria be? 

[ZA Dater]

3 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

Simple, you don’t compete at all, you work on yourself, become an attractive version of yourself. This is not a “me vs. other guys” thing, it’s about maximizing your attractiveness and looking precisely for women who fall for that.

I never competed with other men, I absolutely don’t care if some other guys go to clubs or whatever and rack up higher numbers than myself (even though my numbers aren’t really low, per se). They are playing in their environment, I’m playing in mine. They are looking for “their” women, I’m looking for “mine”. They might have higher quantity, I couldn’t care less, it’s the quality I care about, the compatibility with me, with what I have to offer.

I feel I the most attractive version I am ever going to realistically be but again I am just invisible.  Mr. Charisma arrives and me being Mr. Useful as not chance. 

My environment, I have no idea where that is, honestly I do not thing there is anywhere I really excel where I am likely to meet anyone attractive, though this latest lady did see me in an environment where I do excel, its so rare though, its always much older people so nobody really.

Like you I look for compatibility, she might be stunning but its pointless if her idea of fun is trance parties and mushrooms. Likewise its pointless if she discounts me because I do not go to church or drink.

Lust does not really feature for me, purely because personality and intellectual connection, combined with physical attraction are what makes me want to take her somewhere quiet but again shyness combined with hardly ever meeting people who impress me in that way.

Thanks for the advice.

[Gaeta]

47 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Nothing I do on any given day is funny in any shape or form, finance is simply not funny unfortunately.

I work in finance........I'm very funny lol

[Gebidozo]

15 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

What would sexual and spiritual criteria be? 

My criteria are quite simple. I like “naughty”, sensual women who enjoy sex, look cute enough, are intelligent, funny, but are able to be faithful in a long-term relationship. But the most important criterium is that they must be attracted to me, like and appreciate what I have to offer. That’s why I’ve never failed to get together with a woman I wanted.

Height, age, presence or absence of kids, career, etc., are all nonsensical criteria, in my opinion. It’s just a brainy construct. The trick is to like women who like you, to be able to find “your” women and to not waste any time or effort on women who aren’t “yours” to begin with.