When men refuse to be in a relationship

[Lou_Ann]

No need to be so picky with words , it was just a way of saying things😒

[FredEire]

37 minutes ago, Lou_Ann said:

No need to be so picky with words , it was just a way of saying things😒

But she has a point, framing it that he left you and asking questions about "male psychology" suggests that you have a pretty dim view of men in general, inferring greater meanings from an encounter that just turned out to be a load of nothing in the end.

That outlook is what you need to work on IMO, rather than figuring this guy out.

[Lou_Ann]

 I have a great respect for men with no particular view, they are who they are and are part of our lives. My question was genuine with no underlying thoughts. 

I would have appreciated having a sincere answer , it was useless attacking me with a mean comment.

[FredEire]

24 minutes ago, Lou_Ann said:

 I have a great respect for men with no particular view, they are who they are and are part of our lives. My question was genuine with no underlying thoughts. 

I would have appreciated having a sincere answer , it was useless attacking me with a mean comment.

I don't really see anyone attacking you with a mean comment, just well-meaning advice.

I do see you going on the defensive however, including OP.

[basil67]

14 hours ago, Lou_Ann said:

No need to be so picky with words , it was just a way of saying things😒

Kindly, the words we use to frame situations can have a positive or negative impact on our feelings and reactions.   

"He/she left me" has context in the breakup of a significant relationship where one is devastated and coming to grips with it.  And for better or worse, it also contains some connotations of feeling victimised.   Whereas "we didn't get past the first date" reflects disappointment that something you were feeling cautiously positive about didn't end up working out.  And yes, disappointment is very valid in your situation here.

Using big words for things which are objectively smaller disappointments can play havoc with your coping mechanisms.  It's like how I used to remind my children "hate is a very strong word"

 

[Trail Blazer]

On 7/16/2024 at 5:58 PM, Lou_Ann said:

No need to be so picky with words , it was just a way of saying things😒

Given how prickly you got over something so trifling, I suggest you do some reframing of your current stance.  Rather, you should hypothesize, "When men refuse to be in a relationship with me"

The respondent was being very polite and helpful and you twisted their (warranted) correction, making it out like it was an attack.  Getting defensive to the very people who are trying to help you is a sure-fire way to remain confused in perpetuity.

I can tell you, as a man, if you come off with vibes of defensiveness and hostility, we will run.  Perhaps young men in their early twenties won't, but any man who has a bit of life experience under his belt knows when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em.

I don't presume to know your age or the demographic you're hoping to date, but you should know something; it will only get harder as you get older.  Women who exude passive-hostility are women mature men will run a mile from.

If you really want men to date you, then be the piece of fruit whose juice is absolutely worth the squeeze.  Otherwise, if you refuse to change and interpret everything as a personal attack, I'd suggest you become friendly with you local cat shelter.

[FredEire]

38 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said:

Given how prickly you got over something so trifling, I suggest you do some reframing of your current stance.  Rather, you should hypothesize, "When men refuse to be in a relationship with me"

The respondent was being very polite and helpful and you twisted their (warranted) correction, making it out like it was an attack.  Getting defensive to the very people who are trying to help you is a sure-fire way to remain confused in perpetuity.

I can tell you, as a man, if you come off with vibes of defensiveness and hostility, we will run.  Perhaps young men in their early twenties won't, but any man who has a bit of life experience under his belt knows when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em.

I don't presume to know your age or the demographic you're hoping to date, but you should know something; it will only get harder as you get older.  Women who exude passive-hostility are women mature men will run a mile from.

If you really want men to date you, then be the piece of fruit whose juice is absolutely worth the squeeze.  Otherwise, if you refuse to change and interpret everything as a personal attack, I'd suggest you become friendly with you local cat shelter.

Absolutely agree with this. I think the phrase "refuse" also carries a lot of aggression and hostility in itself. It conveys why won't men be how I want them to be rather than taking them how they are.

I'd also venture the date may have been awkward because the guy sensed a hostile energy and it threw him off so that in the end neither of you felt comfortable. I know you said you went into it with an open mind but these things often operate outside our awareness and given the tone of this thread I'd say it's definitely a possibility.

[Trail Blazer]

7 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Absolutely agree with this. I think the phrase "refuse" also carries a lot of aggression and hostility in itself. It conveys why won't men be how I want them to be rather than taking them how they are.

I'd also venture the date may have been awkward because the guy sensed a hostile energy and it threw him off so that in the end neither of you felt comfortable. I know you said you went into it with an open mind but these things often operate outside our awareness and given the tone of this thread I'd say it's definitely a possibility.

100 percent agree with everything you've said, but it's the emboldened which is particularly pertinent.  OP seems very ignorant of the fact that she's exuding entitlement.

[NuevoYorko]

You definitely seem to think this guy is just automatically supposed to jump into a relationship with you because that's what you'd like.   There doesn't seem to be much room for him to simply decide that this is not something he's interested in doing.

I'm sure you're aware that most dates do not end up leading to long term, successful relationships.  That's dating at work - people getting to know each other a little bit and deciding that it's not the right fit for them.

[ZA Dater]

2 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

You definitely seem to think this guy is just automatically supposed to jump into a relationship with you because that's what you'd like.   There doesn't seem to be much room for him to simply decide that this is not something he's interested in doing.

I'm sure you're aware that most dates do not end up leading to long term, successful relationships.  That's dating at work - people getting to know each other a little bit and deciding that it's not the right fit for them.

I agree with you, it would seem OP automatically valued themselves to a level where "he should be in a relationship with me" rather than actually considering that to some extent she should attract the guy to want to be in a relationship.

Dates are to some degree just an interview.

[NuevoYorko]

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I agree with you, it would seem OP automatically valued themselves to a level where "he should be in a relationship with me" rather than actually considering that to some extent she should attract the guy to want to be in a relationship.

As usual, I challenge your linear approach.  

I do not see it as "value" to a certain "level" or all about attraction.   

My issue with the OP is that she did not even really include the guy, his opinions, feelings, where he may be in his life, etc in her assessment of what went on here.   

The guy is a cipher, a place-holder for the slot labeled "BOYFRIEND."  She does not see him as a fully fleshed out, full human being.  She wants him as a boyfriend, why is he failing to deliver.

If he were attracted "enough,"  it would almost certainly be a terrible failure of a relationship because people who look at other people in the way that she appears to will never really see their partner as the individual human being that they are.  They will be a placeholder forever.  Not a good situation.

[FredEire]

16 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

As usual, I challenge your linear approach.  

I do not see it as "value" to a certain "level" or all about attraction.   

My issue with the OP is that she did not even really include the guy, his opinions, feelings, where he may be in his life, etc in her assessment of what went on here.   

The guy is a cipher, a place-holder for the slot labeled "BOYFRIEND."  She does not see him as a fully fleshed out, full human being.  She wants him as a boyfriend, why is he failing to deliver.

If he were attracted "enough,"  it would almost certainly be a terrible failure of a relationship because people who look at other people in the way that she appears to will never really see their partner as the individual human being that they are.  They will be a placeholder forever.  Not a good situation.

Yep, seeing people as people and empathizing with their needs and feelings is essential.

If you view someone as just there to entertain you and fulfil the partner "role" you'll just end up being inflexible when they're not acting how you want them to act and it'll end with you getting pissed off, them getting pissed off and possibly in this case both.

I always find it interesting how a lot of people who say "why do men/women do X" are often blissfully unaware of their own tendencies that con bring on such reactions.

[ZA Dater]

5 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

As usual, I challenge your linear approach.  

I do not see it as "value" to a certain "level" or all about attraction.   

My issue with the OP is that she did not even really include the guy, his opinions, feelings, where he may be in his life, etc in her assessment of what went on here.   

The guy is a cipher, a place-holder for the slot labeled "BOYFRIEND."  She does not see him as a fully fleshed out, full human being.  She wants him as a boyfriend, why is he failing to deliver.

If he were attracted "enough,"  it would almost certainly be a terrible failure of a relationship because people who look at other people in the way that she appears to will never really see their partner as the individual human being that they are.  They will be a placeholder forever.  Not a good situation.

I do not disagree with you, perhaps I did not make my point correctly, my apologies. My experience is there are certain people who by virtue of being attractive believe every single person they find attractive should fall over their feet to date them,  simply because they think there are extremely attractive. Not saying this is the case with the OP. 

Of course the other person's feelings are important, simply put it cannot work if one wants to date and another does not, well it could work as a simple friendship but nothing more. Again I know people who do see their partner as some sort of placeholder and to be fair in specific dynamics it does seem to work for those particular people.