Wife (33F) cheated one on me once 38M. She wants forgiveness to save marriage (advice needed)

[JoshMc]

Me and my wife have been married together for 13 years of which 5 we have been married and we have two boys ages 7 and 12 (we have had along and hard journey with our oldest due to his ADS diagnosis).

Over the last 6 months (post Christmas) I noticed my wife becoming very distant and always being on her phone.  I let this go for around 6 weeks as she works in a demanding job working with SEN children so originally put this down to stress (after going back after holidays) and that she would re-bound back.  Once I realised this was not related to anything else I raised my concerns (wish raised this earlier) but she just kept denying anything was wrong and I was looking into it to much for no reason.   Generally I am a very secure individual and have never once thought my wife would cheat. 

I have always trusted that any attention she would get she would police herself due to her nature and personality (not a promiscuous person).  I have never once been jealous of any of the attention she has gotten (which is a fair amount due to being very attractive - I am also in shape and attractive) but understood that when people get that type of attention that they enjoy it, but that's all I ever thought it would go (enjoy but never act on). This process of me noticing red flags continued for the following few months, with me raising it every week or two but was always being told the same that I am overthinking it and that I need to give her space.  I pointed out that over the last six months that she has even been denying affection and not providing any (even the basic just refusing a cuddle) and that it felt like this was being provided and received from someone else (emotionally).

Around 2 months ago into this I decided that the relationship was not working and that we should separate (she also agreed this) but when I was about to leave she broke down and begged me to stay and that she would try hard to make it work and try to fall back in love with me as she admitted since January she had been falling out of love.  Stupidly I agreed but nothing changed at all and the same stuff/process continued to happen with me bottling things in to try and keep the peace to see if she would try (she stated she needed time to start providing affection and that I needed to give her time - which was understandable).  I gave her time but then around 1 month after we had another big argument and this time we decided to separate but stay in the same martial home to co-parent our children.  Ground rules were set in regards to not seeing anyone else whilst we do this and decide how we progress the family unit.  I was happy with this arrangement as I thought it would buy me time for us to rekindle the marriage (how wrong I was).

This proceeded to just last week when I noticed my youngest phone (wife's old phone - used only for apps - no sim) had a email notification from her gmail account.  I had never once checked my wife's personal information or ever checked her phone as I believe you need trust for the relationship to work (which I had plenty of), however I decided to check to see if any infidelity was going on.  Although I did not find any valid proof of an affair I could access her google searches and it showed that for that the last 6 weeks she has been searching for things that you would never search for being a married person (such as "how to tell if the person I am talking to wants sex").  The searches over the period were like a book in terms of it had a start, middle and end searches around flirting, followed by searches of kissing someone else to sex with someone else to being ghosted after sex.  These searches started around the time we decided to give it once last try with the end searches being after we decided to co-parent but as separated.  So in my eyes she was building an emotional affair during our times when trying to make the marriage work (alebit she did not try which now I know why) but to then end it just to jump into bed with someone.

After finding this out I left the home and told my wife I could not live in the same space to co-parent (again she agreed).  We told the boys that we were separating, however on the night I was leaving with my stuff she again broke down (much worse than before) and begged me to stay.  I told her that I could not and left. Since this she has provided me with the questions that I needed answering, such as how long (several weeks) and how many times she had seen this person (twice) and the last communication with this person (day before I left), however she has continued to deny that it went to the end and that only physical stuff was kissing.  I asked her to prove this by showing me the messages between both of them but she would not, which cemented by opinion that she had went all the way (especially based on the searches).  She also admitted that he went silent on her for a few days but that, that was only due to his mental health but they were back in touch.

I had a long talk with my wife the other day and she does seem generally remorseful/regretful and she has explained the process of how it happened (lack of attention she was getting from me - over the Christmas time ) and that she started to fall out of love with me and started to resent me.  This is why she said that when I started showing loads of affection after I noticed something was wrong she did not want to receive it as she was resenting me.  She has said that she will give me access to her phone and so on (not that I would as I cant live like I'm looking over her shoulder).

What I need advice on is the following.  With this being a one time only thing (which I believe to be the case, based on what I found myself) and it physically being after we were not technically together (emotionally whilst together), should I try and work on things and if so, what processes/steps should I follow?

The things on my mind are:

Is she just wanting me back because she is scared of the unknow - she is not a very independent person and relies on me for a lot.

Am I overreacting and should I just try again anyway or does this make me look like a fool who does not respect himself (this is a big thing for me - I have always been big on respectfulness and don't want to hate myself).  Always thought prior to this I would never give anyone a second chance if infidelity happened.

Is she just wanting me for convenience and not for the correct ones to make it work, such as I am main breadwinner I am main lead in household (she has anxiety so I tend to sort most things out)

I am the one that does majority of the the house work (I work from home) and do extra curriculum stuff with the kids (I drive, she does not)

Is she worried that with this person not showing as much interest after what happened that she is picking me as a back up option.

Thanks

[Gaeta]

I'm very sorry you're going through this.

The first step would be for her to show you her texts with this guy. If she refuses then there is no negociattions.

As you work from home, you take care of the kids and the house, she's the one at fault....she's the one that should leave the home. She needs to get a taste of what it is to lose you. She can get a furnished room somewhere or go to a family member. Humbling herself is part of fixing this.

Then while she gets a taste of living on someone else couch you start marriage counseling.

You will not go through this without marriage counseling. 

If she doesn't want to show you the texts, if erased she can get them from her automatic backup, then it's a no go. There is no fixing cheating without the cheater exposing his actions.

Now, be careful what you wish for. When l discovered my ex cheated l would have given anything so we can fix it but once the shock passed l realized even if you glue back a broken vase, it's still a broken vase. Since then l met someone else who's the definition of integrity and l'm in love and happy. 

Edited July 22, 2024 by Gaeta

[JoshMc]

2 hours ago, Gaeta said:

I'm very sorry you're going through this.

The first step would be for her to show you her texts with this guy. If she refuses then there is no negociattions.

As you work from home, you take care of the kids and the house, she's the one at fault....she's the one that should leave the home. She needs to get a taste of what it is to lose you. She can get a furnished room somewhere or go to a family member. Humbling herself is part of fixing this.

Then while she gets a taste of living on someone else couch you start marriage counseling.

You will not go through this without marriage counseling. 

If she doesn't want to show you the texts, if erased she can get them from her automatic backup, then it's a no go. There is no fixing cheating without the cheater exposing his actions.

Now, be careful what you wish for. When l discovered my ex cheated l would have given anything so we can fix it but once the shock passed l realized even if you glue back a broken vase, it's still a broken vase. Since then l met someone else who's the definition of integrity and l'm in love and happy. 

Thanks for the insight.

For now she is staying with the children and in the house (she can manage it with the children but is just harder).  I can still help with the kids after school activities.

The messaging was via Instagram and I requested to look, however she has stated that she had deleted them all and you cant get them back. I called BS on this as although I dont use Instagram it states online that any deleted go into a 30 day deleted folder so should be available (she has denied this).

Today I had already spoken to her in regards to Marriage Counselling and she states she would not do it as I would be going into this that she has slept with someone else when she is saying she did not.  Still no ownership of actually taking it that far when all other evidence states she did.  Without her ever fully confessing I can not move forward so at the moment we are at an impasse.

[ExpatInItaly]

Unless and until she shows you the messages between her and her lover, forget any sort of reconciliation. 

Why? Because she’s obviously still lying and hiding things, and the reconciliation would be based on false premises. Unless you know the truth (and not just what she cherry-picks to show or tell you), the marriage will implode anyway. 

EDIT: I see where you said she’s deleted those messages. They had sex. For sure. And she knows the messages prove it, and she’s still trying to cover her ass. My guess is this affair runs MUCH deeper than what you fear. Sex, yes, and likely a lot more. 

Edited July 22, 2024 by ExpatInItaly

[JoshMc]

2 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Unless and until she shows you the messages between her and her lover, forget any sort of reconciliation. 

Why? Because she’s obviously still lying and hiding things, and the reconciliation would be based on false premises. Unless you know the truth (and not just what she cherry-picks to show or tell you), the marriage will implode anyway. 

I agree 100% and have articulated this to her and left it that.  I can only wait and see if she breaks and decides to show me, if not no reconciliation will be done.

[Gaeta]

2 hours ago, JoshMc said:

I agree 100% and have articulated this to her and left it that.  I can only wait and see if she breaks and decides to show me, if not no reconciliation will be done.

If she needs to be convinced, or broken into giving the truth, then it means nothing. You want her to come forward, lay it all on the table on her own, ask your forgiveness, agrees she has to win your trust back. She has to do all of that of her own will. 

She speaks like she's calling the shots!! Like really!! 

[JoshMc]

On 7/22/2024 at 6:04 PM, Gaeta said:

If she needs to be convinced, or broken into giving the truth, then it means nothing. You want her to come forward, lay it all on the table on her own, ask your forgiveness, agrees she has to win your trust back. She has to do all of that of her own will. 

She speaks like she's calling the shots!! Like really!! 

Over the last day or two she has given me trickle truths to what has happened.  She said she is scared to tell me the truth as she thinks it will make me walk away forever (struggled with talking about the intimate side of stuff.

I am still conflicted on if she wants me back as she regrets everything and has realised I am the one she wants to spend her life with for love or if its just for security.  I do generally believe she regrets it but not sure how I can decide on this.

Although the physical side happened after we were officially not together (co-parenting) its still hard to forgive.  Family have advised that I should be focusing more on what happened when we were together and not the two weeks after, as the emotional started when we were together not the physical.  Would any of you guys be bothered if you and your partner separated and then a few weeks later they were intimate with someone else but then realised that's not what they wanted and wanted you back (grass not always greener type scenario). 

 

[ExpatInItaly]

1 hour ago, JoshMc said:

Would any of you guys be bothered if you and your partner separated and then a few weeks later they were intimate with someone else but then realised that's not what they wanted and wanted you back (grass not always greener type scenario). 

Oh, yes. 

She was laying the groundwork with another man before you separated. Her heart and mind were not with you, and she massively disrespected your marriage by even getting that close to someone else. She didn't do what she should have done to preserve the integrity of your relationship. 

She has also continued to disrespect you by hiding the truth. You also have no idea where she'd be now if this other guy wanted to be with her in a more serious way. It sounds like he ghosted her after they had sex and made up some excuse when he got back in touch - but if he hadn't? My guess is she wouldn't be crying for you back. 

All of that matters a lot, in my opinion. 

 

[Gaeta]

2 hours ago, JoshMc said:

On 7/22/2024 at 1:04 PM, Gaeta said:

ike really!! 

Over the last day or two she has given me trickle truths to what has happened.  She said she is scared to tell me the truth as she thinks it will make me walk away forever (struggled with talking about the intimate side of stuff.

You need to head to marriage counseling for those big discussions. If you don't have someone guiding you in these confessions it may do more damage than good.

I am realizing she was only 20 yo when you got married. A lot of couples that married young will have a crises in their 30s, sometimes with emotional affairs and physical affairs. My brother's wife had an emotional affair and they survived it with counseling, a close couple of ours he had a physical affair with his neighbor, in his own bed.  They survived it with counseling they've been together 40 years now.  They made it because they went to marriage counseling. They were guided in what is honesty, what is forgivessness, why the cheating happenned, everybody has a part in the relationship falling apart. 

Edited July 24, 2024 by Gaeta

[JoshMc]

18 hours ago, Gaeta said:

You need to head to marriage counseling for those big discussions. If you don't have someone guiding you in these confessions it may do more damage than good.

I am realizing she was only 20 yo when you got married. A lot of couples that married young will have a crises in their 30s, sometimes with emotional affairs and physical affairs. My brother's wife had an emotional affair and they survived it with counseling, a close couple of ours he had a physical affair with his neighbor, in his own bed.  They survived it with counseling they've been together 40 years now.  They made it because they went to marriage counseling. They were guided in what is honesty, what is forgivessness, why the cheating happenned, everybody has a part in the relationship falling apart. 

Yes I agree 100% that we need counselling but this is something she has always been against.  I did set this as a none negotiable if she wanted us to try and even move forward (might work, might not).  Yes she was only 20 when we started dating (me 24) then got married several years later and understand that people who are in their early 20's are totally different to the type of person they are when they are in their 30's, however for me my morals have always remained the same regardless of how tough our relationship has been at times.

[JoshMc]

20 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Oh, yes. 

She was laying the groundwork with another man before you separated. Her heart and mind were not with you, and she massively disrespected your marriage by even getting that close to someone else. She didn't do what she should have done to preserve the integrity of your relationship. 

She has also continued to disrespect you by hiding the truth. You also have no idea where she'd be now if this other guy wanted to be with her in a more serious way. It sounds like he ghosted her after they had sex and made up some excuse when he got back in touch - but if he hadn't? My guess is she wouldn't be crying for you back. 

All of that matters a lot, in my opinion. 

 

Yes this is a big thing for me in regards to that what if he didn't ghost her (she has said that he hasn't but I don't believe this).  If it had all happened after we decided to just co-parent and not during the time we said we would try and make our marriage work then it would be easier to understand but like you said she was putting all the ground work in when we were trying.  I dont think it should take for your significant other to walk away for you to realise that they are the one you want, maybe I would believe this if there was no one else involved in the situation.

[Gebidozo]

22 hours ago, JoshMc said:

Would any of you guys be bothered if you and your partner separated and then a few weeks later they were intimate with someone else but then realised that's not what they wanted and wanted you back (grass not always greener type scenario). 

If the separation had nothing to do with that someone else, then I probably wouldn’t be bothered that much,. At the very least I wouldn’t consider it cheating. However, in your case, the emotional affair started before the separation, and your wife hid things and disrespected you. I’d be very bothered by that kind of behavior.

[Gaeta]

2 hours ago, JoshMc said:

but this is something she has always been against.  

Who cares, she cheated. The moment she cheated she lost her privilege to like or dislike something. Those are your conditions, period. You have the upper hand, you establish conditions....she doesn't.

The fact you were not living under the same roof means nothing. Did you leave so she could run to her lover?? While you put a roof over her head and food in the fridge for her?

[JoshMc]

1 hour ago, Gaeta said:

Who cares, she cheated. The moment she cheated she lost her privilege to like or dislike something. Those are your conditions, period. You have the upper hand, you establish conditions....she doesn't.

The fact you were not living under the same roof means nothing. Did you leave so she could run to her lover?? While you put a roof over her head and food in the fridge for her?

Yes this is what I said to her that regardless of what she wants this is a none negotiable so she has to do it or no way in hell am I even going to attempt to move forward.

No we were still living under the same roof when we were doing the co-parenting, even sleeping in the same bed, just no intimacy or affection as we were not together as a couple.

[JoshMc]

2 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

If the separation had nothing to do with that someone else, then I probably wouldn’t be bothered that much,. At the very least I wouldn’t consider it cheating. However, in your case, the emotional affair started before the separation, and your wife hid things and disrespected you. I’d be very bothered by that kind of behavior.

Yes this is also what I believe, very disrespectful to show that type of behaviour when they have been with that individual for 13 years.

[Gebidozo]

1 hour ago, JoshMc said:

Yes this is also what I believe, very disrespectful to show that type of behaviour when they have been with that individual for 13 years.

Hmm, I’d say it’s disrespectful in any committed, monogamous relationship, regardless of its duration.

Cheating is actually much more common after several or many years of being in a relationship. Things start to feel stale, monotonous, feelings become duller, people begin to feel the need to revive passion and the romance of initial attraction and falling in love.

I agree with the others that your wife married too young. 

[Gaeta]

3 hours ago, JoshMc said:

even sleeping in the same bed, just no intimacy or affection as we were not together as a couple.

Seperated couples don't sleep in the same bed. No matter how small the place. 

[JoshMc]

We are going to talk tonight whilst the kids are out.  Below are some key sticking points that I have and any advice would be appreciated.

She has said that for last several years she has not felt like she was my main priority and that this is what led to the resentment.  She did raise this with me but over the past few years I have put in way more effort (even friends/her family say I have been going above and beyond even what their significant other does).  She said she felt like this was a little too late and the resentment continued to grow.  Should I accept this or is she just deflecting as from my point working really hard for her for the past few years should have shown she was number 1 and the resentment should have left.

When I originally left the house she begged and cried for me to stay (and has since done it again when i picked boys up the other night).  I asked her why and she said that this was because she was loosing her best friend and the person she wants to be with.  I counted this with why did she not feel like this when we separated and started co-parenting, should she have not been in this state then, why did it have to take for her to go that far for me to then leave for her to then show she wants me (when over last 6 months any effort/attention has always been rejected).  This one I am really struggling with, should I just accept that it had to take for me to walk away before she realised she loved me more than she thought?

I have no solid proof (no smoking gun) on  what exactly happened.  She is still just sticking with her story (nothing physical happened) and saying I only want the story so I can get everyone on my side (this in itself is an admission) but I want her to say it so we can talk it through and process it.  Any advice on how to get her to open up about this side of the affair?  I believe she thinks that as soon as she says it I will just walk for good but that's not the case, I need to discuss it to see if we can move on together or not.

She has been saying the right things but not showing anything with actions. No real effort in winning me back other than begging when I am there.  No actions such as removing Instagram (which is where she talks to this person), send meaning messages about what I mean to her, even lack of communication in general and even not wanting to try marriage counceling.

[ExpatInItaly]

Unless she is prepared to tell the full truth and agree to marriage counselling?

I wouldn't waste my time going over anything else. and reconciliation would be off the table. 

[ExpatInItaly]

8 hours ago, JoshMc said:

  Any advice on how to get her to open up about this side of the affair?  I believe she thinks that as soon as she says it I will just walk for good

You would be well within your rights to do so, by the way. 

She should be woirred about that. Her choices have consequences she might not like. It is not fair of her to take away your right to make an informed decision for yourself, which is precisely what she is doing by refusing to be honest.