No matches

[Els]

19 hours ago, FredEire said:

So basically Chad who was genetically blessed enough to be getting in the 100s of likes is going to be shown first to the average girl because his profile is going to be outperforming most men.

That's just how the internet works in general. Both for websites (websites with more traffic have a higher chance of being at the top of search results on Google), and social media (i.e. a post or video "going viral").

[FredEire]

17 minutes ago, Els said:

That's just how the internet works in general. Both for websites (websites with more traffic have a higher chance of being at the top of search results on Google), and social media (i.e. a post or video "going viral").

Indeed, but it's one think using SEO to push your business up the Google ranks and another having big data seeping into your personal life.

Don't want to derail the thread too much into politics but I don't think social media and OLD have enriched society, quite the opposite. In my personal life there's evidence all around me that's quite plain to see.

[Els]

21 hours ago, FredEire said:

Indeed, but it's one think using SEO to push your business up the Google ranks and another having big data seeping into your personal life.

Don't want to derail the thread too much into politics but I don't think social media and OLD have enriched society, quite the opposite. In my personal life there's evidence all around me that's quite plain to see.

I don't disagree, but it's up to the individual to decide whether they want to engage in social media and OLD or not, don't you think? If someone finds that it's not working out for them, then it's on them to change things up for themselves.

The only form of social media that I'm on because I feel I have to be is LinkedIn (it's huge in my field, sometimes a LinkedIn profile is mandatory to apply for some jobs). Everything else is a choice. I'm on FB to keep in touch with old friends, but I don't do X/Twitter or Instagram or Tiktok. And I'm not single, but if I were I wouldn't be looking on OLD.

[FredEire]

22 hours ago, Els said:

I don't disagree, but it's up to the individual to decide whether they want to engage in social media and OLD or not, don't you think? If someone finds that it's not working out for them, then it's on them to change things up for themselves.

The only form of social media that I'm on because I feel I have to be is LinkedIn (it's huge in my field, sometimes a LinkedIn profile is mandatory to apply for some jobs). Everything else is a choice. I'm on FB to keep in touch with old friends, but I don't do X/Twitter or Instagram or Tiktok. And I'm not single, but if I were I wouldn't be looking on OLD.

That's true, but at the same time it's not really what it says on the tin. It's billed as a nice way to keep in touch with friends or meet potential romantic partners but it's well known there's insidious features of these apps that are designed to keep people hooked and negatively affect their mental health and behaviour. I think if people knew the half of the real effects these things have or how they mine your data nobody would sign up.

[Els]

2 hours ago, FredEire said:

That's true, but at the same time it's not really what it says on the tin. It's billed as a nice way to keep in touch with friends or meet potential romantic partners but it's well known there's insidious features of these apps that are designed to keep people hooked and negatively affect their mental health and behaviour. I think if people knew the half of the real effects these things have or how they mine your data nobody would sign up.

Data mining is done by every large internet corporation, not just social media. If you use anything Google or Apple, for instance, your data is getting mined.

IMO much of capitalism is inherently designed to keep people hooked. I'm not a bleeding heart socialist tin foil conspiracist or anything, it's just the truth. From the way video games and TV series are designed to loyalty cards and airline rewards programs, everything has the same aim. It's not anything new. It's also completely understandable, if their aim is profit. So it's really just up to the consumer to decide for themselves what is a healthy amount of usage.

[FredEire]

1 minute ago, Els said:

Data mining is done by every large internet corporation, not just social media. If you use anything Google or Apple, for instance, your data is getting mined.

IMO much of capitalism is inherently designed to keep people hooked. I'm not a bleeding heart socialist tin foil conspiracist or anything, it's just the truth. From the way video games and TV series are designed to loyalty cards and airline rewards programs, everything has the same aim. It's not anything new. It's also completely understandable, if their aim is profit. So it's really just up to the consumer to decide for themselves what is a healthy amount of usage.

Sure, and I think it's awful, all of it.

Where it really gets damaging though is where it's not just about your finances but your dating and social life.

Anyway, maybe the topic is being derailed a bit. My opinion is on balance OLD does far more damage to people's dating habits and mental health than any level of benefit it brings.

[seamusharper]

Join the club man. Just be happy you're actually getting matches. I'm 34, I live in Los Angeles, do very well for myself, have a very active life full of hobbies, take really good care of my body/health, and as @Trail Blazer explained, the only women who like my profile are below-average women and even then it's only a few of them. My profile probably isn't ever seen by most women.

I don't know how men, other than the model-looking "chads" actually use these apps and get any results. The smart people found a relationship in their 20s. I made the mistake of putting that part of my life off until my 30s to focus on career and I've now come to regret that. I've been on the apps for this whole year and haven't found anyone. It's frustrating and gets lonely. I love talking to people in person but most women I talk to are already in relationships and/or married.

I'm considering trying matchmaking services but they're crazy expensive. Have you looked into those?

[basil67]

2 hours ago, seamusharper said:

below-average women

What do you see as a "below-average" woman?

[seamusharper]

1 minute ago, basil67 said:

What do you see as a "below-average" woman?

Truthfully, someone who weighs nearly as much, if not more than I do. I'm 5'9", 165lbs.  

For whatever it's worth, I have gone out on dates with these women and I wish the weight issue was the worst part. Personality issues are also a problem.

[mark clemson]

The greater LA area has literally millions of women running around. And yet you can't find one? Something is wrong.

My advice to you, in outline is to "become" one of the chads. I recognize that's easier said than done, but do everything you can to improve your appearance. However, good-looking women are indeed fussy - being good looking yourself just gets your foot in the door and might get you an initial date (or lay). But your personality and social skills will have to take it from there.

 

3 hours ago, seamusharper said:

Stories like this make me really not want to get married. And this was nearly two decades ago, I shudder to think what women nowadays are doing that will prevent them from being faithful down the line.

You complain about personality, but I HOPE you aren't saying stereotype stuff about women like the above on your dates. BIG red flag. That doesn't mean the women themselves don't have issues, but women who ARE nice are going to pay attention to stuff like this and many if not the VAST majority will steer clear. You are under a bit of a microscope during initial dates, and casual remarks can derail things fairly easily. That's just how it is.

IF you can make yourself good looking you will get a steady trickle of interest from women. Learn how to read their signals and show interest, but not TOO much interest and you sooner or later you should be able to walk away from e.g. Meet Ups or other social events with phone numbers and/or dates lined up. Women will go for an attractive guy and OLD becomes a waste of time at that point.

I do think you missed an important formative time if you neglected dating in your 20's. It's time to improve your game. IF you can do that - in LA with your financial life secured the world could be your oyster. "Players" have no lack of women interested in them - learn to be one and you are set.

Edited July 31, 2024 by mark clemson

[basil67]

16 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

You complain about personality, but I HOPE you aren't saying stereotype stuff about women like the above on your dates. BIG red flag. That doesn't mean the women themselves don't have issues, but women who ARE nice are going to pay attention to stuff like this and many if not the VAST majority will steer clear.

This!   And may I add that using the phrase 'low quality" to describe the opposite sex is also a massive turn off.  Even if you don't use those words openly, it's probably fairly obvious that you look down on women who aren't your perfect 'petite/slim/fit' (as per your previous thread).  You're not sounding like the kind of guy that women want to date

[Els]

Anyone who describes a whole segment of the other gender as "below average" is a walking collection of red flags, IMO. And yes, that applies to men just as much as it does to women. Imagine a woman who was complaining about only getting messages from "below average" men? Yikes.

[Gebidozo]

6 hours ago, seamusharper said:

I don't know how men, other than the model-looking "chads" actually use these apps and get any results.

Why would “chads” (I really can’t stand that word, just as I detest the entire incel lexicon and their mentality in general) even use online dating apps?

I’m quite far from being model-looking, but I never did online dating and I never had any problems finding women in real life. 

Confidence, vulnerability, humor, passion for life, and a genuine love and appreciation of women are much more important than looks.

 

 

[Trail Blazer]

On 8/1/2024 at 11:18 AM, Gebidozo said:

Why would “chads” (I really can’t stand that word, just as I detest the entire incel lexicon and their mentality in general) even use online dating apps?

I’m quite far from being model-looking, but I never did online dating and I never had any problems finding women in real life. 

Confidence, vulnerability, humor, passion for life, and a genuine love and appreciation of women are much more important than looks.

 

 

I'm no "Chad" so I cannot speak for why a Chad would use on-line dating, but I know why I used on-line dating, and that was because it opened up the possibility of meeting so many women I'd never have access to meeting any other way.

I don't meet people in real life.  I have a very small friendship circle, and as I've gotten older I have become more socially aloof.  I prefer to stick to myself, my hobbies and, in the last five years, thankfully my amazing significant other.

Out of curiosity, where would you meet women of not for OLD?  

[Trail Blazer]

On 8/1/2024 at 11:12 AM, Els said:

Anyone who describes a whole segment of the other gender as "below average" is a walking collection of red flags, IMO. And yes, that applies to men just as much as it does to women. Imagine a woman who was complaining about only getting messages from "below average" men? Yikes.

I don't see an issue if "below average" is being used to describe what a generalized objective view would be of a segment of that sex.  We can't pretend that everyone was created equally.

However, where the term is very much red flag material, is when it's used against an individual person as an insult, e.g. when men say, "she's so mid", often used against an attractive woman to knock her down a peg.

I have no doubt that many women bemoan receiving messages from undesirable and "below average" men just as men complain that the only women they match with are below average.

It is what it is, but as long as it's not used disparagingly against an individual personally, then it's just the reality of everything in life that's always going to be compared and evaluated against its kin.

[Trail Blazer]

On 8/1/2024 at 7:44 AM, basil67 said:

What do you see as a "below-average" woman?

Personally, I see it as a combination of looks, attitude, intelligence, social adjustment, values, character and employment status.

I cannot stand attractive bimbos who are otherwise wilfully ignorant, selfish, narcissistic, lazy and entitled.

Likewise, a woman who has everything else in order, but there's no sexual attraction, then it's really not going to work, either.

It's harsh to lump a woman who has everything in life except good looks, something she cannot help, as "below average", but it's surely an inhibitor for dating.

The same kind of man to an attractive woman would be a guy who could only be considered "friend zone" (in most cases).

[FredEire]

7 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

Personally, I see it as a combination of looks, attitude, intelligence, social adjustment, values, character and employment status.

I cannot stand attractive bimbos who are otherwise wilfully ignorant, selfish, narcissistic, lazy and entitled.

Likewise, a woman who has everything else in order, but there's no sexual attraction, then it's really not going to work, either.

It's harsh to lump a woman who has everything in life except good looks, something she cannot help, as "below average", but it's surely an inhibitor for dating.

The same kind of man to an attractive woman would be a guy who could only be considered "friend zone" (in most cases).

I don't agree with the last bit - successful men with a spine generally tend to do well with women, even if they look like the back of a truck.

Not as much the other way round, I think men as a general group are more superficial and fixated on physical beauty, for sure.

Guys who get "friend zoned" tend to be very unassertive and full of self-pity. The great thing about the "friend zone" also is you don't have to stay there, you can just accept you were attracted, she wasn't and then say goodbye and move on. Men who stick around and moan about it are their own worst enemies.

 

[Gebidozo]

8 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

Out of curiosity, where would you meet women of not for OLD?  

I meet so many women in real life that I never felt the need to use OLD. First in high school, then in college, then at work. After college, pretty much all the women I’ve dated I met at places where I worked. My work either involves a lot of interaction with people or at least encourages it.

[Gebidozo]

8 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

I don't see an issue if "below average" is being used to describe what a generalized objective view would be of a segment of that sex.  We can't pretend that everyone was created equally.

This has nothing to do with equality. We can always say “the type of women I’m not attracted to”. “Below average” sounds insulting, like the woman is an object that’s being appraised.

 

8 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

I have no doubt that many women bemoan receiving messages from undesirable and "below average" men

“Undesirable” for sure. But I’ve never dated a woman who would describe a man as “below average”. And I wouldn’t date such a woman.

[Gebidozo]

8 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

The same kind of man to an attractive woman would be a guy who could only be considered "friend zone" (in most cases).

Not from my experience. Women usually “friendzone” men who are insecure, have a weak character, lack personality and humor, aren’t excited about what they do in life, don’t have opinions, can’t get over rejection, etc. Looks have little to do with that.

[FredEire]

2 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

This has nothing to do with equality. We can always say “the type of women I’m not attracted to”. “Below average” sounds insulting, like the woman is an object that’s being appraised.

 

“Undesirable” for sure. But I’ve never dated a woman who would describe a man as “below average”. And I wouldn’t date such a woman.

Yeah it just comes across as part of this "sexual/dating" marketplace concept that PUA guys have come up with.

The problem is that there's a lot of emotion involved in dating, and if you reduce it to a box-ticking exercise looking for your ideal "trad wife" like she's a well-tailored jacket in a clothes shop you're taking the person out of the equation, which isn't great for you or for your partner.

You just have to go on a PUA forum to realise this. It all sounds like they're trying to win a video game rather than find a life partner.

[basil67]

21 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

Personally, I see it as a combination of looks, attitude, intelligence, social adjustment, values, character and employment status.

I cannot stand attractive bimbos who are otherwise wilfully ignorant, selfish, narcissistic, lazy and entitled.

Likewise, a woman who has everything else in order, but there's no sexual attraction, then it's really not going to work, either.

It's harsh to lump a woman who has everything in life except good looks, something she cannot help, as "below average", but it's surely an inhibitor for dating.

The same kind of man to an attractive woman would be a guy who could only be considered "friend zone" (in most cases).

It's the actual phrase "below average" which gets me.   "not the right fit"  "we didn't gel"  "I'm just not attracted"  are all OK, but "below average" is just an AH thing to say and reflects poorly on the person who says it

[Trail Blazer]

24 minutes ago, basil67 said:

It's the actual phrase "below average" which gets me.   "not the right fit"  "we didn't gel"  "I'm just not attracted"  are all OK, but "below average" is just an AH thing to say and reflects poorly on the person who says it

Fair.  It is not the most respectful way to put it.

[Herkamer]

On 8/1/2024 at 10:10 PM, Trail Blazer said:

Personally, I see it as a combination of looks, attitude, intelligence, social adjustment, values, character and employment status.

I cannot stand attractive bimbos who are otherwise wilfully ignorant, selfish, narcissistic, lazy and entitled.

Likewise, a woman who has everything else in order, but there's no sexual attraction, then it's really not going to work, either.

It's harsh to lump a woman who has everything in life except good looks, something she cannot help, as "below average", but it's surely an inhibitor for dating.

The same kind of man to an attractive woman would be a guy who could only be considered "friend zone" (in most cases).

All this. Personally, I'm not big on dating apps/sites (I prefer the classic way of just meeting them in person), but if it works for some people, more power to them. But, yeah, Tinder just seems like a 'meh' app. Not so much for Tinder itself but, as you said, the people on it.

I tried dating apps before, and Tinder was one of them. When it came to looks, I never tried going after the hottest women because I know I'm just an average looking man. Not that I'm not attracted to really good looking women, but I knew I'd be spinning my wheels on them. Average looking isn't a bad thing, though, because that's most people, and can still look good. A lot of times with the people who are of great looks, they have some of the worst attitudes and just can be tough to deal with. A lot of times, they can be insecure, self absorbed, and self righteous. Someone who's deemed average tend to be more chill and understanding. Not that it's impossible to be with a really good looking person. Just the chances are not as high.

Whenever I sent a message out to these women I would see as good fits on these dating sites/apps, I never hear back from them. Whenever I did get a message, it was always from a type of person that I didn't find particularly desirable. On Tinder, I just simply got nothing. Then when you a little while back mentioned about the research done on that (women only selecting 20% of men on Tinder while the others were left out to dry), the same could actually be applied anywhere. I can't remember the research organization's name, but they did similar research with women, and found that they find 10-20% of men attractive while 80-90% were deemed ugly (I can't remember the exact numbers, sorry). I couldn't say how accurate the research actually was, but given that the number of singles has gone up over the years and people, nowadays, are only getting together for hookups, no meaningful long lasting relationships, I don't think it's entirely wrong either.

Not everything is about looks, either. You're right on how people's character plays a role as well. Again, looks aren't the most important but they most definitely help, however, regardless on how physical attractiveness, if the person is just someone who isn't very joyful while arrogant, or not very intelligent but acts like they know everything, that should be highly considered as well. So even though if someone may be considered average looking, people could be passing up an amazing human being. As a guy hearing women say "where are all the good men", it's like a dog whistle because there are a ton of good men out there. It's just those women don't want them because X, Y, Z reasons, even though they KNOW they're good people and would treat them right.

Same with men. Seeing dudes constantly simp on good looking women, it's pretty discouraging to see. It's cringe to watch a guy in his mid 50s at the bar hitting on the early/mid 20s female bartender/waitress. Sure, these female workers are nice to them, maybe even striking up a conversation, but you can tell they are not into these men. There's nothing wrong with being confident, as men should be, but I ask myself after seeing these guys if it's really confidence or is it something else, like fear of not being seen as desirable. Whenever I try to talk to one of these guys, they typically ignore me or blow me off. And it's like they get irritated whenever a female bartender they like talks with me and they feel the need to try and interrupt or hijack the conversation to make it about themselves, even though I have no interest in the woman. This happens at a lot of places too, and they always end up empty handed.

It's kind of sad that average people aren't sought after. I won't get bias here (even though I do have strong opinions as to what's causing all this), but I will say that people today have their standards and preferences too high, like almost unrealistically above and beyond. I personally look at it this way (and I understand this isn't everyone):

When it comes to looks, so long as they take care of their bodies, keeping their weight down, toning their body, good hygiene, and dresses well, I'm good with that. Not asking for a supermodel with a female professional athletes body, but someone who is being mindful of what they put into their body and keeping it healthy by eating right, bathing and smelling good, and not dressing promiscuously. It sounds silly, but it helps. Gives me something to be drawn to.

When it comes to what they do, so long as they're working and supporting themselves, I could care less about their occupation and their career. I don't really care about their income either, but, again, so long as they can support themselves. And having fun physical hobby(s) helps too.

When it comes to their personality, be nice and respectable. I will do the same , even if she's not. It's just the right thing to do. Mistakes can be pointed out, but micromanaging and getting mad over minor mishaps is not a sign that someone's incompetent. Being a good person is the most important, but to help enhance that, taking care of your body and able to finance yourself to do more things will do that. You can still be a good person if you don't have either, but it'll simply make you more joyful,

There's more to it, but just as an overall look, having these things, imo, are important. I personally have had no success with dating organizations, so I can't speak on that, but meeting women out in public and them being interested (and I in them) helps because you're not in front of some still screen. Anyway, I thought it was interesting you brought this up because these are things that I have been thinking. I had a friend try to hook me up with one of her friends, and, yeah, I was not into the female friend of hers on hardly anything. And it seems like that many of us single men who have really worked on ourselves aren't left with much. I lost well over 100 pounds, increased my income, spent more time with family and friends (and made new friends), I ballroom dance (which I thoroughly love and has kept me fit), and I have an overall better outlook on life. Even then, it's like women can get together with someone a lot easier with men they're not interested in, than what guys, like me, can with someone that we're interested in.

[guest976]

Used to do well on these. Not anymore.
The apps have deteriorated. Paying does not help. They’ve overdone the AI, algorithms, game, it’s like a poker machine. I’ll keep trying and hoping.
Good luck.