So sad and worried

[cr8sea]

Hello all, 

So, I have posted in the past about my family's challenges with our five year old and my husband's and I different parenting styles. I have taken into account what has been advised before and I have tried to be on the same page with my husband. Then today happened. 

We have had a few weeks of calm until today, where my daughter threw a tantrum for some random reason in the morning. I did my best to ignore it, move on, but she kept yelling and screaming. Again, I usually tell her I cannot talk to her until she calms down. Side note, we are pursuing therapy for her as well as parenting coaching for us given her trantrums and really high anxiety. 

Anyway, I was in the kitchen with my husband and my kid kept screaming and calling me. At one point my husband went down to her level and grabbed her arm...hard. He started squeezing while she kept crying ouch. I know sometimes she does that even if noone is hurting her so I continued to ignore her as I had my back to them, but then I turned and he had let her go. Her arm was red from where he had squeezed it. 

I got furious. 

I do not condone physical punishment in any way and I made that very very clear before we had kids. 

I tried hard not to "lash out" as he calls it when I tell him I do not agree with his parenting methods, but I was soooo angry. I told him that was not ok and he needs to calm himself down when dealing with her (A recurrent request from me, as he has a hard time calming himself down when she is upset). 

He got angry, saying he didn't hurt her, and stormed out. He then came back and saw me putting ice in the red marks he left and said "I didnt hurt her" so I pointed out at the red marks and told him that neither he nor anyone has the right to hurt anyone in this house and, speaking to both, said that physical aggression will not be tolerated, I dont care how angry anyone gets. 

He didnt say anything and left shortly after for work. 

I am sooo so furious still. I dont even know what to do anymore. I have always swore that if anyone hurts my kids I will immediately leave and now I dont know if this qualifies. Maybe Im over reacting, maybe Im not. Reason why im here. 

[basil67]

Such a tough situation for you.  To be honest, while a squeezed arm is not great, his reaction could have been so much worse.  I would not leave over this.

I'm responding with my special needs parenting hat on:  I do think that this needs to be raised in your co-parenting therapy.  Not in a "my husband did this" type of discussion, but more about how you're still got very different approaches.   Does your husband feel heard in the parenting therapy? And it's also apparent that your husband is also really struggling with this and he needs support.   Full disclosure: it wasn't until I went on anti-depressants that I was able to step back and view a meltdown objectively...and even then, sometimes my husband and I would have to step in for the other when we saw them struggling.  Perhaps stepping in could be an agreement you make?  

Have you figured out what the triggers are for your daughter and changed the environment to help her?   Is her environment nice and structured?  Does she have enough downtime? 

Edited July 23 by basil67

[ExpatInItaly]

Your husband needs to get a grip before he does something that actually injures your daughter. His behaviour here is unacceptable and very concerning.

But why did you ignore it if she was screaming "ouch" and you saw how hard he was squeezing her? 

10 hours ago, cr8sea said:

He started squeezing while she kept crying ouch. I know sometimes she does that even if noone is hurting her so I continued to ignore her as I had my back to them

Why did you not intervene when you heard her crying in pain? 

[introverted1]

13 hours ago, basil67 said:

Such a tough situation for you.  To be honest, while a squeezed arm is not great, his reaction could have been so much worse.  I would not leave over this.

I'm responding with my special needs parenting hat on:  I do think that this needs to be raised in your co-parenting therapy.  Not in a "my husband did this" type of discussion, but more about how you're still got very different approaches.   Does your husband feel heard in the parenting therapy? And it's also apparent that your husband is also really struggling with this and he needs support.   Full disclosure: it wasn't until I went on anti-depressants that I was able to step back and view a meltdown objectively...and even then, sometimes my husband and I would have to step in for the other when we saw them struggling.  Perhaps stepping in could be an agreement you make?  

I agree with all this.

I also think it is terribly damaging to have a disagreement about parenting styles in front of your daughter, essentially chastising your husband in front of your daughter.  Children can be manipulative and they know how to use these types of disagreements to their advantage.  I know that sounds harsh, but it is true.

[BaileyB]

“Low arousal theory” has become very popular in schools these days - it may be something interesting to research in addition to the parenting/counselling sessions that you are doing.

In a nutshell, the low arousal approach provides tools to caregivers to recognize triggers, to learn to manage their own response, such that they can then use low intensity strategies and solutions to manage difficult moments/meltdowns. The essential core principle is that many people inadvertently trigger behaviours, therefore it is often our behaviour which needs to change. 

It’s difficult to stay calm when someone is yelling and melting down. Inevitably, our arousal level rises in response and our ability to think and manage the situation goes down - in much the same way that your daughter’s ability to think and problem solve is reduced in her hyper-aroused state. And when this happens, we have absolutely lost the battle. 

Unfortunately, your husband was triggered by your daughters behavior and in his escalated state, he was not able to manage the situation. He responded inappropriately to your child’s distress - as I said, when one get to the point where there is physical contact, they have lost the battle. That said, this one incident is not something that would cause me to leave the marriage. If you are seeking the assistance of parenting coaches and counsellors, I would try to support him to learn how to recognize his own triggers, to manage his own emotional response, and develop tools to help your daughter when she is in a heightened state of arousal.

You may want to consider finding an occupational therapist who can help your daughter (and your husband) to learn more about emotional/sensory self-regulation. If you read more or consult an OT who is trained in low arousal, you may find this helpful as well.

Edited July 28 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

50 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

If you are seeking the assistance of parenting coaches and counsellors, I would try to support him to learn how to recognize his own triggers, to manage his own emotional response

The question that I would ask him is - what could he have done to manage the situation differently? Another question - what was her problem? Was it something that required his intervention? Or, if he would have walked away - would the moment have passed, she would have moved on and forgotten about it? 

So many times we get worried about things that are not big things - ie. she needs to put her dishes in the dishwasher, I am going to make her understand that she can’t leave her dishes on the counter!! Why not - maybe she is doing something else right now and she can deal with it later? Or, we need to leave right now!! Why? Do you need to go to the store now? Or can you go later without your daughter when your husband is home to stay with her. You see what I’m saying… sometimes, taking a step back to rethink and realize - this is my issue/requirement, but it doesn’t need to be this way… 

Instead, we often dig our heels in, it becomes a battle for control, and things escalate quickly. 

What else could he have done in that moment to diffuse the situation before it got to the point where he touched her - because that escalates the situation instantly. Could he have walked away? Could he have just stood silently, not responding to her attempts for attention/interaction? Could he have asked for your assistance - the tag team is really helpful in these situations… you are much calmer and better able to deal with the situation, he has a moment to go for a walk/get a glass of water and when he is feeling calmer, he can re-engage with the two of you. There are a world of possibilities - things that could have been done to deescalate the situation before he lost control and put her hands on her. Your job now is to talk about his experience, to debrief - was this an issue that required a response or was this a moment that we could have lot pass. And, what other strategies could he have used when he felt his arousal level begin to rise…

Thats the conversation that I would be having with him. Just, food for thought.

 

Edited July 28 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

I’m sorry, I should have read your previous posts before replying. He seems to be very sensitive to feedback, perhaps this is a discussion that is best to happen with your counsellors/parenting coach/OT. It’s hard when you are not on the same page.

As an aside, your previous post makes me think of my niece who went through a “yelling” phase when she was about two. She would yell the word “NO” and her mother would yell back - “DON’T YELL AT ME!” It would always make me laugh… I would think, what exactly are we teaching her by yelling when we tell her to stop yelling? 

Good luck. 

Edited July 29 by BaileyB

[basil67]

38 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

the tag team is really helpful in these situations… you are much calmer and better able to deal with the situation, he has a moment to go for a walk/get a glass of water and when he is feeling calmer,

This is a great option.  The only caveat I'd give is that when we're in the midst of the crisis, it's easy to get one's heels dug in and want to see it through to the end...and this means we don't ask for help.   On our household, we've managed this by making an agreement that the other partner is allowed to come and say "you take a break, let me have a try" and we will accept the takeover (even when we don't want to!)

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, basil67 said:

The only caveat I'd give is that when we're in the midst of the crisis, it's easy to get one's heels dug in and want to see it through to the end...and this means we don't ask for help. 

I hear that. I would suggest that at some times, this may be the time that you need to walk away the most… At least, that’s what happens for me at times - when I dig in, I tend to lose perspective and that’s not always a good thing.