Men, if you have a crush on another woman, and your wife notices, what do you say?

[em2001ily]

Do you say, 'oh, no, that other woman is ugly/not my type', or, 'she's just a nice woman, that's all', or something else?

 

Note - you just have a crush, find her physically attractive, you have no intention of acting on it.

[basil67]

Is this about the guy you're renting from?   Or is it a different married man you're crushing on?  What happened to make you ask this question?

 

[NuevoYorko]

I don't believe that happily married people get "crushes."  They can certainly notice that someone is attractive.  They can flirt.  They might even have extramarital sex, which pretty much makes them a bottom feeder, but anyway ... not a "crush."    

If the wife notices, sure.  They will try to make her feel comfortable and / or at the same time protect themselves.   

I too am wondering whether you're still in your little flirtation with the manager of your apartment , or you've connected with some new married man to flirt with.  

 

[em2001ily]

3 hours ago, basil67 said:

Is this about the guy you're renting from?   Or is it a different married man you're crushing on?  What happened to make you ask this question?

 

No, it's not - just a general question. It doesn't have to be a married guy.

[em2001ily]

2 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

I don't believe that happily married people get "crushes."  They can certainly notice that someone is attractive.  They can flirt.  They might even have extramarital sex, which pretty much makes them a bottom feeder, but anyway ... not a "crush."    

If the wife notices, sure.  They will try to make her feel comfortable and / or at the same time protect themselves.   

I too am wondering whether you're still in your little flirtation with the manager of your apartment , or you've connected with some new married man to flirt with.  

 

Ahaha no, that has passed now.

[Gebidozo]

4 hours ago, em2001ily said:

Note - you just have a crush, find her physically attractive, you have no intention of acting on it.

Having a crush and finding someone physically attractive are two completely different things.

Finding a woman attractive is completely normal, and I wouldn’t deny it. Having an actual crush on a woman while being in a relationship with another is a symptom of serious problems in the relationship that require immediate attention. 

 

[NuevoYorko]

Why is this a concern of yours today?

[basil67]

A guy could say any number of things.  But more importantly, why are you asking?  

[ExpatInItaly]

Odd question. 

Care to provide more context as to why you're asking? 

[mark clemson]

I think it's possible to have a crush even if you're partnered and even if happily so. Strong "crushes" are trigged by brain chemistry and this capacity doesn't go away just because you're partnered. I suspect if you're in the first 5 years or so it would be VERY unlikely if you're happy with your (new/newish) partner. Beyond that, well... again, your brain works how it works.

If it was me, and I had no intention of ever acting on it, and my wife "noticed" I'd probably simply deny it/tell her she was wrong. Why open a huge can of worms that erodes trust and (depending on how the wife reacts/overreacts) quite possibly severely damages the relationship over what is essentially a nothing-burger?

I can really like music or other art or even have political views that my wife hates. That doesn't mean we have to have extended discussions about it. If this would never be acted on and is not impacting my desire to remain loyal to my wife, I don't see that much of a difference. She doesn't need to know all of my porn fantasies either. They are just "mental life" and I think it's normal for many if not the vast majority of us to keep at least some of it private, even from partners/spouses.

Edited July 25 by mark clemson

[Gebidozo]

3 hours ago, mark clemson said:

I think it's possible to have a crush even if you're partnered and even if happily so. Strong "crushes" are trigged by brain chemistry and this capacity doesn't go away just because you're partnered.

It doesn’t go away only if you cultivate it. And you cultivate it, knowingly or subconsciously, only if there are serious problems in your relationship. Having a crush on someone else becomes then a surrogate emotional outlet, a coping, defensive maneuver, an outward symptom of a disease.

When your relationship is good, when you’re happy and you truly love your partner, you can’t have a crush on anyone else. It would be an oxymoron, contradiction in terms.

[stillafool]

Some people need validation so much they fake attention in order to test their desirability from others.  They have no intentions of acting on what they are portraying.

[mark clemson]

17 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

It doesn’t go away only if you cultivate it. And you cultivate it, knowingly or subconsciously, only if there are serious problems in your relationship. Having a crush on someone else becomes then a surrogate emotional outlet, a coping, defensive maneuver, an outward symptom of a disease.

When your relationship is good, when you’re happy and you truly love your partner, you can’t have a crush on anyone else. It would be an oxymoron, contradiction in terms.

 

I disagree - I don't think your opinion takes into account how our brains work, particularly for people who are "in love" but have been together for multiple decades.

[Gebidozo]

 

7 hours ago, mark clemson said:

 

I disagree - I don't think your opinion takes into account how our brains work, particularly for people who are "in love" but have been together for multiple decades.

Quite on the contrary, my opinion is based exactly on how our brains work. When people are truly in love, they will satisfy their desire for renewed “crushes” with each other. They’ll fall in love with each other over and over again, reinvigorate their feeling. When something is wrong in a relationship and love is lacking, their brains will channel that desire outside, towards other people, even subconsciously and seemingly against their will and intentions.

I do mean only people who are in love. Not people who are “in love”.

Edited July 27 by Gebidozo

[mark clemson]

Hmm. I (genuinely) wish you luck with your new fiance/marriage. However, I just don't think your brain works that way in the long term.

People change over time, and we become accustomed to stimuli - even "true love" if that is what you want to call it.

For many folks, our brains have a capacity for crushes (or the adult version - limerence). The true love you speak of might always wane. Indeed something like 1/2 of marriages fail, and of those that don't many seem to be just "enduring" without that much emotional connection.  I'm not saying there is no possibility people can be content with each other and passionate about each other longer term. However, even then there is no actual reason (beyond perhaps idealism?) to think the neural capacity for crushes/limerence to be triggered by an outsider has been somehow erased.

[Gebidozo]

12 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

However, even then there is no actual reason (beyond perhaps idealism?) to think the neural capacity for crushes/limerence to be triggered by an outsider has been somehow erased.

Let’s say that I agree and there are some purely chemical signals to have a crush on another person that we keep receiving even when we’ve been in a happy, loving relationship for many years. But in a happy, loving relationship. they are nipped in the bud so quickly and so effortlessly that a real crush or limerence will never develop. They would be akin to some sudden irrational impulse to do something outrageous and crazy, like killing a person, that we sometimes receive and then immediately discard, understanding that it’s not real. 

[NuevoYorko]

I've given it some more thought and I don't think that I am capable of having a "crush" on anybody when I'm closely involved in a romantic relationship.

I think something akin to "the hots" is possible.  And, yes, the SO might catch a vibe of that.   It would be more like an eye roll from her, and a sheepish grin from me, and that's all.

   

[mark clemson]

Hmm.I wonder if perhaps we're not using the same definition of "crush".

I am using crush to mean limerence, but I do agree/think though that there are shorter-term, less emotionally deep, and more "voluntary" infatuations that people sometimes develop. For something like that what you (Gebidozo) are saying could indeed hold true, although your (metaphorical) examples suggest you recognize that the neurological impulses (ie, attraction) are indeed still there, they are just being suppressed, rather than not having them at all.

In the early stages of "love" it's indeed easy to suppress any of that as thoughts of your partner are going to take your romantic interests quite fully. That suppression could fairly I guess be represented as "neurological" in the sense that a person simply is much more interested in their partner and their thoughts "automatically" return to them. For some folks at least, and do think the degree to which they are "truly in love" is a factor at that stage.

Relationships have a tendency to go from "romantic" to "familial" though over time (years). There might be couples where short term "crushes" are still suppressed over time at the true LTR stage (e.g. after 10+ years). However I suspect for that the vast majority, by the time love becomes familial, it wouldn't be reasonable to characterize any suppression as neurological at that point. More a matter of self-control and/or a choice (of disinterest).

For a true limerence or what you might call an "involuntary crush" situation, I don't think the examples you (Gebidozo) are thinking of apply well. But as noted it sounds like you and I are were talking about different things.

Edited July 30 by mark clemson

[Gebidozo]

2 hours ago, mark clemson said:

For a true limerence or what you might call an "involuntary crush" situation, I don't think the examples you (Gebidozo) are thinking of apply well. But as noted it sounds like you and I are were talking about different things.

But that’s the thing, I believe that it is absolutely impossible to have true limerence / involuntary crushes when you truly love your romantic partner and there are no serious problems in the relationship. Not after 1 year, not after 10 years, not after 30 years of being together.

Whenever people say they’re married but have this “uncontrollable attraction” to someone else, become all dreamy and romantic with them, talk about a great new passion even though they “love” their spouses, you can bet your money that something has been going very wrong in their relationship for a while. 

The maximum that I can imagine happening to a man who is in a happy, loving relationship is having a purely sexual reaction to some other woman. As in, “Holy mackerel, look at those voluptuous curves! Now that’s something I would’ve totally done if I were single”. Definitely nothing more romantic than that.

Edited July 31 by Gebidozo

[NuevoYorko]

4 hours ago, mark clemson said:

Hmm.I wonder if perhaps we're not using the same definition of "crush".

I am using crush to mean limerence, but I do agree/think though that there are shorter-term, less emotionally deep, and more "voluntary" infatuations that people sometimes develop.

From my POV, a crush requires active participation with the emotions.  A person needs to nurture a crush or it can't remain. When many of us are seriously committed we are not going to indulge ourselves in that kind of fantasy because it is likely destructive to the relationship.  A lot different than a wave of lust that leads to a double take or stare.   That's my experience anyway.  

[mark clemson]

So - that's where I disagree, and the neurology is a factor.

The love in a relationship going from more romantic to more familial is quite normal. It doesn't mean there's some huge flaw in the relationship or in the partners themselves. The relationship/marriage can still be quite good and satisfying to both partners etc. However, the brain is no longer "automatically" fully romantically fixated on the partner they way it might be near the beginning of a relationship. This is completely normal.

Exactly how limerence/involuntary crushes are triggered is not fully understood. But a few key points - one is they are involuntary - so they don't actually have to be deliberately nurtured. While it's a bit creepy, it's quite possible to have limerence/crushes for someone you never actually interact with, but only see. (Indeed that's a bit of a cliche with stalkers and so forth.)

One could develop limerence/a crush on someone you find attractive (finding others attractive is normal, not you, your partner's, or your relationship's "fault") who essentially just happens to be in the environment on a regular basis. E.g. someone you encounter regularly at work, school, church, gym, doing hobbies, etc, etc. Likely you talk to them, but that isn't actually a requirement.

The crush/limerence can "sneak up on you" slowly when seeing/interacting with this other person. Once it gets fully triggered it will run it's course, and involve brain changes that have similarities with OCD and addiction. You don't need to nurture it, it essentially escalates on it's own. The only thing likely to shut it off is if the other person is completely removed from your life, which in many situations isn't under one's control.

So in this sense, it's not at all a problem or fault with the relationship that "causes" or is responsible for this type of "crush".

Metaphorically, saying that "huge problems in the marriage" must have caused this is a bit like blaming a person who's been at a company for many years for being laid off in a structural layoff. They didn't actually do anything wrong, in fact they did everything right (and so stayed at the company for so long). However, now they are "expensive" relative to the company's budget, and so get canned.

Similarly a person who's done everything right in their relationship and stayed in it for 10+ years is neurologically "vulnerable" to limerence being triggered, whether they are looking for it or not. It's not really anyone's "fault" or indicative that the relationship marriage is severely problematic in some way.

Edited July 31 by mark clemson

[Gebidozo]

Just to clarify, by stating that if you have a crush on another person, something must be wrong with your relationship, I didn’t mean to blame the partner of the person who has the crush. I blame the person who has the crush. Letting or not letting a crush happen is a voluntary choice. Yes, such a choice is always triggered by problems in the  relationship, but it’s a poor (albeit widespread) way of handling them.

As for people who have crushes on people they don’t even know - obviously they need therapy. And a couple where one of the partners has a crush on someone else needs counseling. 

We can’t just say “it’s all neurological anyway” and dismiss an ethical problem on that basis. Everything is neurological. If I suddenly desire to kill a person it’s just my brain sending chemical signals, but why is it doing that to me and not to someone else? Obviously because I have deeper psychological, spiritual, ethical issues that need to be addressed.

Sorry Mark, let’s just agree to disagree😊

Edited August 1 by Gebidozo

[Acacia98]

On 7/25/2024 at 11:58 PM, mark clemson said:

I think it's possible to have a crush even if you're partnered and even if happily so. 

I'm inclined to agree.

[mark clemson]

12 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

We can’t just say “it’s all neurological anyway” and dismiss an ethical problem on that basis. Everything is neurological.

Sorry Mark, let’s just agree to disagree😊

I'm fine with agreeing to disagree. I would ask you to consider though - if a crush can be involuntary (and I believe it indeed can, particularly with limerence) is it fair to label the problem as relating to ethics. Everything is neurological, but there are things we can control (like acting on a crush) and things we can't. Don't feel obligated to answer, I am just putting this here for your consideration.

[Gebidozo]

2 hours ago, mark clemson said:

I'm fine with agreeing to disagree. I would ask you to consider though - if a crush can be involuntary (and I believe it indeed can, particularly with limerence) is it fair to label the problem as relating to ethics. Everything is neurological, but there are things we can control (like acting on a crush) and things we can't. Don't feel obligated to answer, I am just putting this here for your consideration.

I understand your point of view, but that’s exactly where we disagree. I don’t believe that crushes / limerence are involuntary. If they were, of course they wouldn’t be an ethical problem, because ethics aren’t applicable to a situation where the person is deprived of freedom of choice.

But I’ve had crushes and limerences aplenty, and I can testify that every single time I was actively nurturing them (even though I wasn’t aware of that), and every single time they were a sign of relationship troubles.