Men, if you have a crush on another woman, and your wife notices, what do you say?

[mark clemson]

If you say so, I guess that's been your experience.

[heartwhole2]

On 7/25/2024 at 8:15 PM, Gebidozo said:

It doesn’t go away only if you cultivate it. And you cultivate it, knowingly or subconsciously, only if there are serious problems in your relationship. Having a crush on someone else becomes then a surrogate emotional outlet, a coping, defensive maneuver, an outward symptom of a disease.

When your relationship is good, when you’re happy and you truly love your partner, you can’t have a crush on anyone else. It would be an oxymoron, contradiction in terms.

I have to agree with Mark, here. I think it's naive to think that happiness and love will keep crushes away, and it also conveniently blames one partner's for your attraction to someone else . . . "I wouldn't feel this way if our marriage were better!" 

As I wrote in my own topic, my husband experiences sexsomnia, and he said another woman's name while groping me in the middle of the night. I was not surprised, and not all that threatened, because this is someone who, on paper, fits my husband's type. Of course he would find her attractive, just as there are plenty of people I find attractive (well, I'm kind of picky, so maybe not "plenty," but some number of people for sure). 

The key to a committed relationship is understanding that this will happen and having the self-awareness to recognize when it's happening to you. I've always gone out of my way to be transparent about the borderline messages my high school boyfriend has sent me over the years, and during a particularly vulnerable period when my husband had an affair and my ex happened to be single, I blocked him to remove any temptation. Now he's married with kids and we chat very occasionally. If I have a dream about my high school boyfriend, I just thank the universe for sending me some extra sexual energy and go on my way. That energy only goes into my marriage, so my husband benefits from it in a way. 

To circle back to OP's question, the dream thing was really unfortunate because I do believe in privacy, and I don't want to have to ask my husband just how attracted he is to this other person. Now with an affair under his belt and being a charming flirt, of course my hackles are always a little raised, but ultimately I have to make the choice to trust him, and to trust my own ability to be OK no matter what comes. If he were more open and less full of shame, we might be able to joke about our crushes on people, but I don't see that in our future any time soon. I think my husband thought I might ask him to quit the exercise group he knows this woman from if I found out, which is why he didn't tell me, but I'd already figured he would be attracted to her anyway. I wish he understood that transparency is so much more important to me than control. I don't need all the dirty details; I just want to know that he's self-aware and avoiding temptation.

[stillafool]

On 7/24/2024 at 8:55 PM, em2001ily said:

No, it's not - just a general question. It doesn't have to be a married guy.

Yeah, okay.

[Gebidozo]

6 hours ago, heartwhole2 said:

it also conveniently blames one partner's for your attraction to someone else . . . "I wouldn't feel this way if our marriage were better!" 

I’ve made it very clear that I don’t blame anyone for their partners’ crushes. A person allows the crush to happen and then cultivates it because they aren’t entirely happy and fulfilled in their relationship. Whose fault it is is irrelevant.

 

6 hours ago, heartwhole2 said:

Of course he would find her attractive, just as there are plenty of people I find attractive

I’ve also made it clear that simply finding people attractive and having a crush / infatuation / limerence / romantic feelings / passion etc. aren’t the same thing at all.

 

6 hours ago, heartwhole2 said:

If I have a dream about my high school boyfriend, I just thank the universe for sending me some extra sexual energy and go on my way. That energy only goes into my marriage, so my husband benefits from it in a way.

Most of the time, dreams mean nothing. But if you’re getting sexual energy from thinking about other men, that’s no “benefit” for your husband at all. It’s very obviously a symptom of serious problems in your marriage, which you do have.

In fact, your example just illustrates my point that crushes are dangerous signs. Your husband did cheat on you. You were tempted to cheat on him. That’s nothing to laugh about or dismiss as insignificant, because it “happens to everyone”. It doesn’t.

[mark clemson]

Since this got brought up again, I'd like to note something.

When we speak of an involuntary crush, i.e. limerence, we are talking about something that is NOT a common occurrence. It goes WAY beyond normal feelings of attraction that we might have and easily discard. There were some neuroscience articles that seem to have dropped off the web that indicated the brains of people with limerence looked similar in scans with the brains of cocaine addicts.

Due to the nature of the changes - substantial, months to happen, and months to fade, normal human beings can't have limerence more than a few times in a lifetime, perhaps 3-7 times. So if one is talking about easily started and ended "crushes" that feel like and are based on normal attraction, that is actually something completely different (and more normal, and more under one's control) than limerence.

If someone's brain is truly "ready" for this (more dopamine receptors), all it really takes is the repeated/extended presence of an attractive but not attainable other person in the environment. There doesn't have to be an intent to purse the person, or even much interaction, etc.

Since "crush" is a blanket term that can mean a lot of different things, I wanted to point this out.

[mark clemson]

6 hours ago, heartwhole2 said:

I have to agree with Mark, here. I think it's naive to think that happiness and love will keep crushes away

This is presumably true for both kinds ("casual"/normal and involuntary) and as you know I tend to agree. I have casually flirted with plenty of women over the course of my married life (and felt attracted to plenty more) but slept with none of them. So it does fall back on self control/choices we make.

[heartwhole2]

1 hour ago, mark clemson said:

This is presumably true for both kinds ("casual"/normal and involuntary) and as you know I tend to agree. I have casually flirted with plenty of women over the course of my married life (and felt attracted to plenty more) but slept with none of them. So it does fall back on self control/choices we make.

Yes, it's illogical to assert that people can't have passing attractions for other people while happily coupled. And how do all the people in poly relationships fit into this thesis? 

We're sexual creatures . . . our DNA wants us to procreate. Those instincts don't turn themselves off. It doesn't have to be a big deal. 

[Gebidozo]

4 minutes ago, heartwhole2 said:

Yes, it's illogical to assert that people can't have passing attractions for other people while happily coupled.

Passing attractions, yes. Not crushes, limerence, passion, romantic feelings, etc. If you’re really happily coupled, you won’t have them for anyone else but your partner.

 

7 minutes ago, heartwhole2 said:

And how do all the people in poly relationships fit into this thesis? 

They don’t. By definition, they aren’t having a monogamous relationship, so they probably handle crushes quite differently. I’m talking about having crushes on other people while being monogamous and committed to one partner.

 

10 minutes ago, heartwhole2 said:

We're sexual creatures . . . our DNA wants us to procreate. Those instincts don't turn themselves off.

No argument here. I’m a very sexual creature. My instincts are pretty much always on. I’m still not going to have a crush on anyone but my lady. 

There is no connection between having a high libido and having crushes outside of your relationship.

[mark clemson]

I could see the above IF I believed it's not possible to have an involuntary crush. I don't.

@Gebidozo have you been in a 20+ year marriage? Normal people don't stay "in love" with the same intensity after decades. Which doesn't mean one has to go seeking out crushes or similar, but nonethess to think that "only your spouse will fill your thoughts romantically always" or similar isn't very realistic. It sounds like you might have an idealized view of what a LT marriage is actually like.

Your (first, I assume) marriage ended in cheating, which you now regret, correct?

16 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

There is no connection between having a high libido and having crushes outside of your relationship.

This statement doesn't seem to make sense as written, although I suppose you mean "unless you allow them occur" or similar. Assuming that's the case, I might actually agree with you. I still however maintain one can have involuntary crushes - BUT I'd note I'm not sure it's necessary to have "high libido" or similar for one to actually occur.

Edited August 8 by mark clemson

[Gebidozo]

42 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

@Gebidozo have you been in a 20+ year marriage?

Nope. My longest relationship so far was 7 years.
 

42 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

It sounds like you might have an idealized view of what a LT marriage is actually like.

Not at all. On the contrary. I think that true love and real happiness can be found only in a small percentage of LT marriages. And in such marriages, crushes on other people are, of course, unthinkable.

 

42 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

Your (first, I assume) marriage ended in cheating, which you now regret, correct?

I was married more than once. But yes, I had stretches of serial cheating in some of the relationships, which I deeply regret now.

 

 

Edited August 8 by Gebidozo

[mark clemson]

I see. I guess you will see whether your view/theory turned out to be correct in perhaps 10-15 years. Hopefully you are right, for you.

[Gebidozo]

3 hours ago, mark clemson said:

I see. I guess you will see whether your view/theory turned out to be correct in perhaps 10-15 years. Hopefully you are right, for you.

My theory is 100% correct.

If after 15 years I’m still not having crushes on other women, then my theory is correct.

If after 15 years I’m having crushes on other women, then something in my relationship has become wrong, and my theory is still correct.

[ExpatInItaly]

OP has left the chat

[mark clemson]

15 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

My theory is 100% correct.

If after 15 years I’m still not having crushes on other women, then my theory is correct.

If after 15 years I’m having crushes on other women, then something in my relationship has become wrong, and my theory is still correct.

Hmm. The "theory" I was referring to is the idea that you will still be just as enamored of your fiancee in 15 years as you are now. So, in fact, your second item above coming true would mean your theory was wrong.

You say "women" - the type of involuntary crush I'm talking about does not involve "women" - it involves a single individual woman who you become overwhelmingly interested in/mentally fixated on. It sounds like perhaps you've never experienced this. Again, for those of us who experience this, it can happen involuntarily and doesn't necessarily mean you have problems with your marriage.

You seem to have quite strong views about "love" in very LTRs and about limerence, but I think you could perhaps recognize that in truth you don't actually have experience in these areas.

Edited August 9 by mark clemson

[Gebidozo]

1 hour ago, mark clemson said:

Hmm. The "theory" I was referring to is the idea that you will still be just as enamored of your fiancee in 15 years as you are now. So, in fact, your second item above coming true would mean your theory was wrong.

Oh no, that’s not my theory. My theory is that if I’m still enamored and everything goes well in the relationship then I won’t have crushes, and if I’m not enamored or something else isn’t going well, then I’ll have crushes and they will be the symptoms of those problems.

 

1 hour ago, mark clemson said:

You say "women" - the type of involuntary crush I'm talking about does not involve "women" - it involves a single individual woman who you become overwhelmingly interested in/mentally fixated on. It sounds like perhaps you've never experienced this. Again, for those of us who experience this, it can happen involuntarily and doesn't necessarily mean you have problems with your marriage.

Oh, I have experienced that. Last time was by far the strongest, a crush on my now-fiancée when I was still with my ex. I used to think like you, that crushes don’t necessarily mean that something is wrong with the relationship. It took me 2 years to understand that the contrary was true. Many things were wrong with my relationship, I just refused to see that. So I can confirm with great accuracy that crushes are an indicator of relationship problems.

 

1 hour ago, mark clemson said:

You seem to have quite strong views about "love" in very LTRs and about limerence, but I think you could perhaps recognize that in truth you don't actually have experience in these areas.

Well, I do know myself. I know with certainty what crushes / limerence are in my experience: symptoms of serious relationship problems. Obviously I can’t presume to speak for all men. If you think you can love your wife and have an amazing relationship with her and still have occasional crushes on someone else, that’s your experience and your definition, but not mine.

Edited August 9 by Gebidozo

[mark clemson]

Apologies if I'm belaboring this - the "theory" I was referring to that could only be proven in time was this:

On 8/8/2024 at 10:04 AM, Gebidozo said:

On the contrary. I think that true love and real happiness can be found only in a small percentage of LT marriages. And in such marriages, crushes on other people are, of course, unthinkable.

And the idea that your marriage would be like this. Generally I think such marriages are not a theory there are some like that, but they are quite rare.

 

Not this.

12 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

Oh no, that’s not my theory. My theory is that if I’m still enamored and everything goes well in the relationship then I won’t have crushes, and if I’m not enamored or something else isn’t going well, then I’ll have crushes and they will be the symptoms of those problems.

I guess the (2nd item) above is a theory as well, though in the sense that staying "enamored" LT may not prove to be realistic no matter how "good" the marriage. At least for most people.

However, not being "enamored" doesn't mean you need to either divorce or cheat either. There is such a thing as remaining loyal to partner in an "ok" marriage, of course.

 

WRT to crushes I very much think we're not talking about the same kind of crush. That's ok, IF you ever have this kind of crush, you'll know as it is quite different from a normal and "fully psychologically healthy" love and more like an addiction/obsession where you literally cannot stop thinking about the person even if you try.