Please help! Wife of 8 years doesn't love me anymore!

[hopefulhusband]

Hello all,

 

Last night my wife, whom I have been happily (or so I thought) married to for 8 years and share 2 beautiful boys with (ages 3 & 6) told me she doesn't know if she loves me. Well she loves me, but is not in love with me and says she has never felt in love with anyone before, including me.

She has been distant for the past month and sex has stopped.

The main issue now is that she feels controled by everyone in her life and says she has always acted to please everyone else and now feels it's time to do what she wants.

Well, the twist is that she also says she's seeing someone else (and of course I have to assume has some of those "love" feelings for but she won't admit it), but claims that in their 2 month relationship, it has been nothing but emotional support and compainionship. She claims no physical relationship. I suppose I have to take her word for it.

She told me that she has nothing but great things to say about me, I am a great father, great husband, great person, etc but she doesn't know if she is even interested in seeking help or making things work between us.

I am completely lost. I have no idea what to do now. She is not being angry or confrontational, and neither am I at this point even thought it's all I can do not to be. I have listened to what she has had to say and she says she doesn't know what she wants, nor does she know what she expects me to do.

What do I do? Ask for a divorce? Wait it out and see what she decides to do? Propose an ultimatum?

What makes it worse is that she keeps claiming that I am not going anywhere, she is not going anywhere, she doesn't want a divorce but yet cannot make a committment to solving any of the issues we have going on. She won't open up to me, and never really has.

Lastly, one of the major issues in her life is that her 18 year old brother was killed a year before we met and she was still in heavy emotional turmoil at the time. She claims that now, 9 years later, she is finally somewhat over that and has realized that our marrige was possibly some sort of rebound or crutch she used to get past the trauma.

Please help me. I love her dearly and cannot bear the thought of what a seperation will do to our boys. I think she loves me but I cannot force her to explore that.

What do I do now?

 

Thank you

RM

[notmakingsense]

It seems to me that this is one of the only true chances you will have at really fighting for what you want. I blew it during my marriage when a similar situation happened.

 

If I had to do it over again, I'd do two things: Move out to give her her space, but also ask her to go into marriage councelling - and allow you to take her out on dates during that time. But, and just as important, she has to stop seeing this other person. Oh, and when you take her out on dates -- don't talk about anything serious -- there will be enough of that at the councelling sessions. Just have fun and try to rekindle the romance.

 

From reading these forums, I have come to believe that giving her space to think is very important -- but I also believe that marriage is a very important thing to fight for -- especially since there are kids involved.

[Ladyjane14]

If I had to do it over again, I'd do two things: Move out to give her her space, but also ask her to go into marriage councelling - and allow you to take her out on dates during that time.

 

Why would HopefulHusband move out?

 

It's his wife who's initiating this emotional separation. While he can't control her actions or decisions, he needn't be reactive either.

 

If she's the one who wants to make changes....then it's incumbent upon her to make those changes.

 

I agree that marriage counseling is beneficial....that is if she is NOT having an affair. But I don't think an affair can be ruled out here if she's emotionally invested in an opposite sex 'friend'.

 

HopefulHusband's best bet would be to initiate a marriagebuilder's plan A. That would certainly be supportive of her emotional needs, but NOT supportive of decisions that are detrimental to the family dynamic. He shouldn't actively help her in actions that are divisive.

 

His wife needs accurate information before she makes mistakes. She needs to be able to predict the consequences of her choices. If she doesn't want to be his wife anymore, then he should put the onus on HER to initiate separation, divorce, and ALL that those things entail.

 

You can't play games with your spouse when you're in a crisis situation, Hopeful. Going in opposition to your ultimate goal is just that....playing games. This is not a situation in which you can 'outsmart' somebody. You have to be true to what you believe in and stick with it.

 

She's going to make alot of noise, and you'll be tempted to react to that. She's going to say things that hurt your feelings, more even than what she's already said. She might even leave and go her own way, but YOU will have behaved consistantly in the interim. In essence, your message is, "HERE is love, peace and security. THERE is chaos and division."

[hopefulhusband]

Thank you both for your advice. Actually, moving out is not really a solution I am considering, nor does it seem is she. Of course, something will have to give eventually but for now we seem to be co-habitating and trying to work things out.

My major issue is this other guy and how to address it, or wether to at all if it as she says, is platonic only. What should I do? Be calm and see what happens? That is what I am doing now but should that change?

 

Thanks again

hopeful

[Nocturnal-Bloom]

You sound so smart. May I use that advice?

[Xillr8ng]

She's going to make alot of noise, and you'll be tempted to react to that. She's going to say things that hurt your feelings, more even than what she's already said. She might even leave and go her own way, but YOU will have behaved consistantly in the interim. In essence, your message is, "HERE is love, peace and security. THERE is chaos and division."

 

Ditto with quoted advice!!!! I am currently 5th month seperated same thing same words were used.But I have no way of knowing of other guy but I am sure there is one.My mistakes......lashing out...reacting without thinking and saying things to hurt...And above ALL...When she starts to vent...LISTEN and do not defend yourself at ALL....Even if it sounds like crap....Just say "yes,I can see your point"."yes I wasnt aware it was that bad"...Do not argue....do not justify...You need to act hurt....which I'm sure is not far from the truth.Be slow to anger...She has changed you,my friend,and you need for her to see it....I was HUMBLED in a matter of days after hearing her words...I turned away from chasing her and trying to push the issue....The more you push anything you think you can control,the further she will run in the opposite direction...Stay on Loveshaq...These are the same people that helped me and are still my source of refreshment everyday..These people are great...Hang in there friend..I know this hurts like No other pain known to man....

[hopefulhusband]

Thanks again. It seems like most of the advice I am hearing is to let go somewhat, listen and give her space. Problem is that she has carried on a 2 month relationship that she CLAIMS is not physical and has no intention to stop so far as I can tell.

I can listen and give her space but I think at the very least, I deserve respect after almost a decade and 2 kids later. I know I cannot expect or demand love but can I not expect respect? Is it not too much to have this other relationship stop or is that part of continuing to pressure/control her? I guess the part I am having the most trouble with is accepting that she is going to do whatever she is going to do without any say from me.

This is the hardest thing I have ever had to do and it is killing me inside to think that all the while I am battling to save our marriage there is some other guy telling my wife to leave...and she's listening!

 

hopeful

[Xillr8ng]

What I have come to realize is that there is and was nothing I could say or do to stop my wife from doing anything!!!"the grass looks greener" is an old statement and holds true even today...And yes ,this other guy is probably contaminating the issue concerning this marraige.And yes ,she is probably going to fasion his advice over rational thought.Do not get angry do not say anything!!When she sees that you have stopped pushing and have let her do her own will....she will at some point stop and look back to see where you are...Right now she knows where you are...On her heels ,so to speak.It hurts very much to just stand back and watch the love of our life walk away and act like life just started over...No remorse for our feelings and no insight to their future..HOW can they just stomp us out like a stale cigarrette??!!They are not concerned about the respect that is due..They avoid it like the plague.What I have come to notice from these forums and others is..."the grass does LOOK greener" on the other side.It is only a matter of time until they notice it is NOT.Everything looks brand new and exciting in her eyes right now....Everyone giving advice here knows what works and what does not.Do not file -do not throw her things out -do not move out.Do move on.......My wife has definetely seen MAJOR changes in the way I approach matters and the endurance to remain "more than the usual calm" since she left me.My actions speak LOUDER than anything I could have posibly done or said that has made her think about what she is doing.She has not returned home but I can see the wheels turning in her head...She was NOT expecting me to improve and or change things about myself.That is the only reason that she is even curious about the life she left.Either way it goes ,I have made myself a better person BY FAR and have goals set before me that include myself being alone and somewhat happy.Time is on your side.....yes it is....Patience is a VERY difficult road to travel....Endurance is your best Ally.

[Becoming]

I can listen and give her space but I think at the very least, I deserve respect after almost a decade and 2 kids later. I know I cannot expect or demand love but can I not expect respect? Is it not too much to have this other relationship stop or is that part of continuing to pressure/control her? I guess the part I am having the most trouble with is accepting that she is going to do whatever she is going to do without any say from me.

 

Yes, you should expect and require that all people treat you with respect, but what does that mean? That she should do what you expect? It would probably help to clarify exactly what it means to respect and be respected. (Wow. I just realized our marriage needs the same thing right now. Thanks!)

 

Also, H, this is a time when you really need to find a good marriage counsellor. This is classic 7-year-itch a little late. You're right to fight for what's good and for those kids. Chances are the

 

Also, check out http://www.marriagebuilders.com , especially the meeting emotional needs (abbreviated as EM on LoveShak (LS)). There's some good stuff there. But if you're not communicating what you want and she's not either, it doesn't bode well. Sounds like you're both afraid of that communication--for good reason. It can be terribly hurtful without care, and when you're hurting, it is hard to be respectful and honest. I've found the materials on marriagebuilders to be helpful in that regard.

 

I'm sorry this is happening to you. It hurts like crazy. Keep us posted and get the support you need here if you just need to vent sometimes.

[Lonestar]

You need to distance yourself emotionally from her right now. If it were me, I woudl ask her to move out, but I understand the kids situation and the separation of a parental relationship can really screw them up, especially at the ages of 3 & 6. It's currently happening to my 3-year-old now. She's regressed in potty training and is very stressed that she's acting out in school. Kids that age can not verablize their feelings very well. It's sad to see them go through pain. If you stay in the house with her, move to a separate bedroom. This can easily be explained to the kids - daddy snores or some other story. Create your own life without her. Join a gym, take up a hobby, but most of all, spend tons of time with friends and meet new people. Go out. Don't report to her what you're doing or where you're going. Tell her you'll be with friends. If she needs to reach you, she can call on you cell. Don't talk about anything personal unless she initiates it, and then hold your tongue and listen to what she has to say. Tell her that you need space now to figure out what you want and need. Once she sees that you are not dependent on her and have found a life of your own, she may want to start working on your relationship again, but you have to distance yourself emotionally. And that's a very hard thing to do when you love someone and feel abandoned. Seek therapy too, but on your own. Do not discuss your therapy sessions with her, because unless she's going with you, it's none of her damn business.

[hopefulhusband]

Thanks Xillr8ng. Your words help a lot. I am having so much trouble doing any of that though. I can't seem to get past the resentment I feel towards, as you say, her not even affording me respect.

One thing I am VERY curious about is how you don't move out, or somebody doesn't move out and still "move on." I can't imagine things being the way they are now and me being able to see her and not having the constant emotion I am suffering now. I am an emotional person anyway so it's difficult not to show what's going on inside.

The other thing that is still stabbing me in the heart is that she is so obviously trying to do all of this with nothing else in our lives changing, i.e. not letting anyone else know like the kids, our parents, friends etc. Funny thing is that she has him, and girlfriends to talk to and I have nobody. Anyone I trust enough to talk to I would not want to taint their opinion of her and I suspect I would just get the "what a bitch" routine and that would not be helpful so here I sit, alone.

I want to do what you and others (not just here) are suggesting and "let go" and "improve myself" but I keep thinking that if I can get her to see why this guy MUST be a scumbag to be with a married woman with 2 small children and all that entails, then she would at least emotionally come back to see what we can work on.

I did ask her this morning if she would consider going to marriage counseling and she said yes, but there was no conviction behind it.

Bottom line, and why your advice rings so true, is that her actions are being fueled by a need to be uncontrolled. She even said at one point during the initial conversation a couple day ago that "this [other] relationship was the first thing she's done in her life that was outside what others expected of her."

How can I counter that with anything? Anything I ask of her, even counseling is just one more expectation to rebel against but I have to believe that at the very least, counseling would either start healing or let us know that there is nowhere to go with our marriage. Does that sound about right?

 

Hopeful

[hopefulhusband]

..and lonestar. (does it seem like I'm sitting here waiting...)

Again, thank you, and again that emotional detachment is what I can't seem to do. I know I need to but she seems to think I have been detached before this so I am struggling to see that as a viable option, even though I know it must be.

One clarification though please; are you suggesting that I NOT pursue counseling WITH her, or in addition, get it for myself?

 

Thank you,

Hopeful

[hopefulhusband]

Wanna know something ironic and not very helpful to this situation about me...I'm a wedding photographer...

 

RM

[Becoming]

One thing I am VERY curious about is how you don't move out, or somebody doesn't move out and still "move on." I can't imagine things being the way they are now and me being able to see her and not having the constant emotion I am suffering now. . . . The other thing that is still stabbing me in the heart is that she is so obviously trying to do all of this with nothing else in our lives changing, i.e. not letting anyone else know like the kids, our parents, friends etc.

 

This is an excellent question. I honestly don't think you can live in the same house and move on. Having the person right there whom you're longing for is like waving a juicy T-bone in front of a dog outside the cage he's in. Having her in the house with nothing changed just makes the hurt worse.

 

You can't let the kids know at this point. That would be akin to asking them to handle a nuclear bomb; they're not equipped to do so. But why not the parents? Why not call the parents up for advice, including hers? Many times in marriage ceremonies all those folks who witness the marriage promise to uphold and support that marriage. So let them at this point. You don't have to lay the story out in a blaming way. You can lay it out just like you did here and ask for help. Wise people know they're only getting one side of the story and respond accordingly.

 

Instead of focusing on her behavior, focus on what you need to do in order to stay sane and care for those children and the marriage in a constructive way with help from constructive (not destructive--i.e. OM) others.

[Lonestar]

..and lonestar. (does it seem like I'm sitting here waiting...)

Again, thank you, and again that emotional detachment is what I can't seem to do. I know I need to but she seems to think I have been detached before this so I am struggling to see that as a viable option, even though I know it must be.

One clarification though please; are you suggesting that I NOT pursue counseling WITH her, or in addition, get it for myself?

 

Thank you,

Hopeful

 

Ask her once if she will go to counseling with you. If she refuses, don't ask again. That's called begging. Go by yourself and work on your own feelings about all this.

[Becoming]

Wanna know something ironic and not very helpful to this situation about me...I'm a wedding photographer...

 

RM

 

It just might be helpful. You've heard all the words of these ceremonies over and over and over again. What do they mean to you? What do they mean to her? It might be an interesting conversation just for information gathering--no blaming! You might discover you didn't understand the same words in any of the same ways. It might also give you a clue as to why she feels justified in doing what she's doing now.

[hopefulhusband]

Becoming...i missed you. Sorry. You are all being so helpful, and I appreciate it so much. It really is helping I think.

What I mean by respect is that she refuses to end this other relationship. She seems to think that I should be willing to stand on the side-lines while she explores this relationship and judges it's potential, which it seems to me is extremely disrespectful. How can you respect someone and then expect that they would stand still for that?

And, yes, communication is always an issue. Funny thing is, I am the one that communicates, she does not, and never really has. That conversation a couple days ago, which I initiated btw, was the first time she seemingly opened up to me in as long as I can remember and it was only to tell me she doesn't love me and is seeing someone else. My statement to her was why not discuss the problems between us long before saying there was nothing left to discuss.

Hope that helps clarify. You all have had great advice, and I am trying to follow it but I keep hanging around here because it is just so damn hard and I am so unsure I can do it.

Sorry for being so needy here, but I guess I think if I do that here, I won't do it to my wife.

 

Thanks,

Hopeful

[hopefulhusband]

I did ask her once to go to counseling and she begrudgingly said yes. I am going to schedule a day off, make an appointment and tell her when it is. I am afraid that she only agreed to make me go away though. We'll find out.

 

Hopeful

[Becoming]

I did ask her once to go to counseling and she begrudgingly said yes. I am going to schedule a day off, make an appointment and tell her when it is. I am afraid that she only agreed to make me go away though. We'll find out.

 

Hopeful

 

 

I assume you're going to ask when a good time is for her to schedule an appt., right?

 

And honestly, yes, I think you have every right to expect that she respect your marriage vows and not see this other man. You don't have to be a doormat to fight for your marriage. In fact, that's counterproductive. Stand for what you believe in and you stand a much better chance of salvaging various relationships.

[Becoming]

Not implying that any of your other relationships broken in that last post. I meant it in a generic way--that any relationship requires people being honest about who they are and what they stand for and where the line is for acceptable and unacceptable behavior where you're concerned.

[Xillr8ng]

In my case not only did I lose my wife and my best freind but I also kicked all other "freinds" to the curb.They drank and I no longer wanted booze or the influence around me...I was ALONE!!!!I have never lived alone in my entire life....Three cats were my only salvation..I understand your issue with "moving on" while she is still there...It would be Ideal for you to stay somewhere else for the time being but I also am seeing a vision of impossibilty.When I say move on I am reffering to the emotional tendancy to ask questions as to where she is who she is with what is she doing.This is the biggest LACK of respect on display at your home!!!..She just seem like a totally different person than your wife!!I'm sure you have been under the utmost of stress and can only hope that you remain in the thinking ability of mind rather than your heart..The heart can conjour up many unpleasant thoughts and dealings and can dictate resentment, that if acted on,will only bring YOU regret some time in the future.Let family and freinds find out on their own.Dont be the bugle boy.Dont try to pull them to see your side...They are grownups and will obviously see through the smoke.By you remaining calm and collected,others will see the true issue at hand(your wife has made an error of serious judgement).There will come a time when she will look at this huge audience of freinds and family and feel embarrassed when they offer limited support for her actions.Like others here have stated,this is YOUTIME...Since you cannot move out....Go out...You need to find a place or a hobby or a group to occupy your time.The worste thing we tend to do is sit and think...to figure out how to save this marraige....At this point it would be like looking at the Blueprints while on the TITANIC....after its been hit....What good would it do..?....Get to the nearest lifeboat...If she is willing to a counselor I would persue it but like it was mentioned...ask once more and do not push.

[hopefulhusband]

It must get tiring to keep writing the same things back to me each time I ask different questions, and mean that in a completely appreciative way. Thank you for being patient with this over-emotional basket case.

I have made plans to go out this week. The problem is that all my friends are really just associates or peers. They are not people I would call to go out. I am really a sad case where I was completely happy living and existing in my family, going out with my wife and kids and did not really need anything else. She was my wife and best friend. I think that is part of the problem because even though I encouraged her not to, she sort of pushed all her friends away and stopped going out, especially when the kids came along.

She is a stay at home mom by choice (hers) and has openly resented me getting to go to work and associating with people who don't just happen to be parents of our kids.

Like all relationships, there are so many complicating factors, and all of them seem to make it extremely impossible to "move on." As for the moving out thing, well, currently that would be a financial impossibility as well as an emotional one where the kids are concerned so that is not being considered.

I will keep coming here and flowing from my heart/mind to keep you posted and to keep me sane. It is really my only outlet right now and while that needs to change, its a sad fact.

Lastly, if being with the W is hard when going thought this, being with the kids is sometimes harder. The older one (almost 6) seems to have a knack for asking the most heart-wrenching questions like "can we all so something together later today?" We usually make it a point to do family things and over the past 2 days, mommy has never been around when daddy was and vice versa. I told my wife that needs to change but I think she thought it was another ploy to get her to be with me, something I am truly, per your advice, trying to get away from doing.

Anyway, thank you again for your time and kindness.

 

Hopeful (but not for much longer)

[hopefulhusband]

How is wanting to know where your spouse is a sign of disrespect?

 

Hopeful

[Ladyjane14]

If you've been reading posts here at LS, you've probably noticed the term 'Emotional Affair'. There is quite a bit of information to be had on EA's, not only here but in other venues as well. Shirley Glass's book, NOT "Just Friends" : Rebuilding Trust and Recovering Your Sanity After Infidelity springs to mind, among others. Posts by Owl here at LS will give you alot of information on EA's. You can use the search tool to find them. And take a look at Devildog's thread here in the Separation/Divorce section. You can also use the search tool for that. It's long, but significant.

 

It's possible that what you're looking at in your relationship fits the definition of an EA. Certainly, there seems to be an inappropriate emotional closeness with her "friend" which has usurped your place in her life. It has caused an interloping influence between the two of you so that 'emotional intimacy' has been compromised. And your wife does seem to be "re-writing" the history of your relationship to reflect a certain amount of justification on her part. (That's not to say that there might not have been legitimate problems, only that sometimes a cheating spouse skews the significance of them in order to rationalize their position.)

 

I'm in agreement with Becoming on the value of information that you'll find at marriagebuilders, so have a good read in the 'basic concepts' section.

 

Tolerance is NOT an 'Either/Or' proposition. You can completely support your spouses emotional needs without crippling your family dynamic. In other words, much as I told you before.....you do NOT help her to tear your family apart, but rather you support her emotionally within the family dynamic. You can remain calm, cool, and serene....and still maintain your boundaries. If 'cheating' in not tolerable in your relationship, then it's incumbant upon her to STOP CHEATING in order to remain in a marriage with YOU.

 

That said, there is no rush for you to be reactive.

*Gather your information and learn about the marital relationship....what makes it healthy, what harms it.

*Gather your facts regarding the extramarital relationship. You need to know EXACTLY how far this "friendship" has gone, and that might require a certain amount of detective work on your part. You need to know what your legal rights are in terms of a potential divorce.

*See a lawyer. You're going to feel sooooo much calmer when you have a handle on all the possible outcomes. You WILL need to defend your family dynamic until your wife either either emerges from the "fog", or is completely lost to it. (Right now, she's fairly free to remove your children as well as your shared assets from the home.)

 

You've got ALOT to do, and it will take time, so don't rush for resolutions yet. It's okay to have a certain amount of 'limbo' just now. This is preferable to making errors which will force a final outcome prematurely.

 

Do get busy addressing the problems that YOU bring to the table. If you've been demanding or insensitive....it's time to fix that. However, you needn't respond to the pressure that she's going to bring on the issue of Control. She's bound to use that particular tactic. Be ready for it. She probably really does feel that way, so it's not necessarily a 'gambit' on her part. Whatever.... Intolerance of an active affair does NOT define you as a "controlling husband", no more than it would define her if the tables were turned.

 

The bottom line here is that it's okay to give her emotional space, but it's not okay for her to cheat and damage the marriage or family. If she feels the need to explore this "friendship" with the OM....you can't stop her. But you CAN divorce her forthwith. That's within the realm of possibility and a choice you are free to make at any time, just as she's free to leave anytime.

 

If that's what she has to do and SHE forces a decision, then your attitude is simple...."I love you and I have NO wish greater than to work it out. I'm willing to do everything necessary to fix this EXCEPT tolerate an affair. If you've got to explore this other relationship, then I'm sorry to see you go. But if that's what it takes to make you happy, then don't let the door 'hit you in the ass'.":(

 

There's going to be tremendous pressure for you to give her that "space", but you're making a huge mistake when you give more ground than you can afford to lose. The situation tends to 'snowball' when that happens.

 

Guys sometimes have a tough time dealing with female emotions. It's like an alien landscape or something. But seriously, they often tend to try to 'problem-solve' their way through, and when met with resistance they sometimes internalize this as rejection Too often, they back away from the problem. But just as a soldier does not 'sound retreat' until necessity dictates it, neither should you retreat from this alien battlefield.

So to recap, I'll put this in military terms for you.

 

Do some reconnaisance and get the information you need. This should include legal information, as well as specifics on the EA. Educate yourself in regards to the 'marital relationship' in crisis.

Set up a perimeter. What are your truest boundaries? Define them, and then make certain that she has this information at hand in order for her to make accurate choices.

Do some damage control. Get to work on defining and meeting her Emotional Needs. Fix the deficits that you've brought to the relationship.

 

Good luck, Hopeful. There exists the possibility that NOTHING you do will effect the final outcome of the marriage. But there's a certain amount of comfort to be had in knowing that you fought the good fight.

[Xillr8ng]

You,indeed,are in territory that most of us would fear.Advice is difficult with the events you describe...For me and my marraige , I was in SHOCK...and still am...I will tell you that once I surrendered to the simple fact that I was no longer in charge of this trainwreck.....I did pray...and prayer was only helpfull to me,it didnt change her....We all have freewill and I could not pray to change her ,but after many weeks after I realised that i was praying for the wrong thing I did pray for the right thing....to help me endure.....endurance is a trait that many NEVER master...We are humans,we want results NOW....Especially men....Now please!!!!LOL...Love....The world has no grasp what love means....It goes beyond Movies it goes beyond Love songs it goes beyond poems...the scriptures define love with no boundries!!!!!!.....1CORv13 Love is long-suffering and kind. Love is not jealous, it does not brag, does not get puffed up, does not behave indecently, does not look for its own interests, does not become provoked. It does not keep account of the injury. It does not rejoice over unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

 

Love never fails.