Please help! Wife of 8 years doesn't love me anymore!

[hopefulhusband]

(one more tid-bit about me, I am also a writer so if I get wordy, that's why. I like to express myself through writing)

 

Wow ladyjane! It is so nice to have someone listen and respond with specific advice, as most everyone has done, but you did at most length.

You did a bit to address my most painful issue right now, the OM. I have done some detective work and I have a name and phone number. I think it may be an old boyfriend. Actually, the last one she was with when we met (karma anyone). They were only dating for a short time when we met and she broke things off with him to start dating me.

If it is this guy, then it complicates things more.

Also, I went and read the marrigebuilders (thanks a bunch for the link, i am continuing to explore) info on the basic concepts. I see something that may be an issue. Most of the things that are attributed to the average woman's emotional needs are actually mine in our relationship. I am the one who craves affection and conversation. Of course, I want the sex and am surely guilty as hell of the assumption that "have wife in bed, will sex" thing that it warns about. That was one issue she brought up but she seems to not need any of the traditional female things. Sure, she has accused me of being gone all the time. I work 8 hours a day and have evening assignments about 1-2 times a week. I also work some weekends for my wedding photography. However, the time I am home, which is most every weekday night and many weekends, I am always available for her and the kids. I am always trying to spend time with her, only to be rebuked by her "having things to do."

In this process, if I am the one who wants conversation and she does not, then it makes it hard. If I am the one who wants affection and she does not, again, it makes it tough.

The only emotional need she seems to think she has is the expression of a "spine" and standing up for what she wants, not withstanding what anyone else wants. I know I keep painting a more bleak picture, but without posting a novel, I am trying to fill in details when they seem appropriate. Of course I am also being defensive and stalling but I am really trying to wrap my head around this and it's taking time.

Also, when I am trying to implement some of this advice, it seems to me (and her) that I am doing it to spite her. When I mentioned (and I think that was a mistake, I should have just done it) moving to another bedroom, she asked why, claiming that it hasn't bothered me the last two nights, which it hasn't. I relented. Maybe it's me that needs the spine. I need a trip to see the wizard down the yellow brick road.

 

On another note, and I don't know how common this is, but one simple reason I have not sought counseling or a lawyer is money. We just don't have any funds available this time of year, like many others. We are stressed to the limit as it is without adding lawyer fees, which I would assume I would want to do in semi-secrecy. The money would be missed and credit cards are not an option either.

We are not poor, it's just that she does the household accounting and $100-$200 would be missed.

So once again, I love your advice, or should I say that you gave it. Some of it is tough and I am struggling with it.

Please, your help is at least making more sane and I am starting to come out of the deep funk I was initially in (probably shock). Thank you.

 

Hopeful

[justagirl64]

Hi There HopefulHusband

I couldn't help but respond to your thread. I recently informed my husband that I'm not sure if I love him anymore. We have 3 adorable children and I have been tempted to have an affair but did not. I can understand and empathize with you from your side, but I can also appreciate where she may be coming from although I don't know all the details from her side.

 

My feeling is that she needs to connect with someone who makes her feel super special, desireable and understands what she may be going through. If she is like me she has missed out on something in the past and is now wanting to get that. Not wishing to make you feel any worse but also trying to be frank, she is not getting this with you. She may love you on a certain level and cares for the family but at this time she is seeking externally to have her needs met.

 

If I am right about her and she has gone as far as establishing an emotional tie with someone else it will be very hard for you to win her heart back via communication at this point. Back off the communication stuff, you need to give her plenty of space, be cool, distant but polite. Undoubtedly she will come back for support when she hits a snag. Trust me, she will come back to you for it. I know this is a hard time for you, I could almost ask my husband to come in and give advice on how to handle this from a guy's perspective....With me, I guess I kept up the communication channels which has made things easier, but if she has closed down, or is not a big communicator this will be a major reason for her to go externally. When and if things pick-up you (and she indirectly) will both need to work on communication as this as this will be 'key' to her happiness in the future. You will need to learn different skills than you have now to get her to open up.

 

Anyhow...hope this helps.

[Woggle]

Sos he is cheating on you with another man and is talking about exploring this relationship while you are supposed to sit on the sidelines? Grow a pair of balls and get some divorce papers. Tell her she can either sign them or not and that you won't just sit around waiting for her to decide if she wants to be with another man or not. Plus she chose to be a stay at home mom so where does she get off resenting you for her own choices. Also the letting everybody control her stuff shows that she is still in that teenage rebellion phase even though she is agrown woman. Whatever happens just get on with your life. You deserve better than this.

[Xillr8ng]

I disagree w/ divorve ultimatum...I was just in that neck of the woods..I went down paid 400 dollars and filed!!!She was served and we breifly talked about it and she still hasnt returned them....She never asked for a divorce but I was so angry and tired of hurting I did it.ONLY.....to feel Very regretful for the last two weeks...Ya see it made NO difference...All I did was push her further away...and that is NOT what I wanted...I love her...and love is long suffering and kind.It does NOT look out for its own interests but that of the other person...Aynway I wrote her and said that I did it out of emotion and was withdrawing my pursuit of this dissolution.She said o.k. and we are still talking.I FEEL much better!!!! Even though she may serve Me!!!I can live with that...What I would regret however to be the one killing the marrital bond between me and the woman I love.

[hopefulhusband]

Yea, the grow a set thing is something that I battle with constantly. I do not normally buy into the whole "be a man" thing but in this case, I am constantly wondering if I am being strong enough.

The good thing for me is that all the reading I have done, and everything (well almost everything) that has been posted here says that tactic is only good for ending things before they would have otherwise.

I am ok with waiting for right now but it is the waiting and thinking that this relationship is continuing that is killing me as much as the other stuff.

 

UPDATE:

Well, since I have calmed down, at least outwardly (I was a TOTAL basket case for a day or so) things have gotten a little better. I have kept things on a basic level as far as communication with the W. It seems to have worked a little. She turned to me for comfort (hugs) last night and thats the first time since the initial confrontation.

I still have unbelievably strong feelings that I am enabeling her to destroy our marriage by not presenting an ultimatum but again, everything I am reading tells me that it would be the worst thing to do right now. Like everything else in this process, it seems like all the best things to do are also the most heart wrenching, insane things to do.

I still have no idea where this will end. I don't know if she's secretly already decided to leave and just getting her ducks in a row, or if she's really conflicted as she said she was and may just as easily decide what a terrible mistake she made and work to repair it. I just have no idea and not being able to ask is soooo painful.

Anyway, any and all comments are welcome and I will keep you posted.

 

Thanks,

Hopeful

[hopefulhusband]

To all you wonderfully supportive folks,

 

One thing I have failed to mention here and would love your input on is this; when we did talk about all this the first night and next day, and I brought up the OM, she would just brush it aside and say that it wasn't about that, that it was about all the things that were wrong with us and her. Of course I pointed out that it may not be about him to her, but it is to me.

Does the fact that she seems to minimize the importance of the affair mean anything, or is it the natural defense that is seems to be. Is she really saying that she is not putting much into this other thing, or is she probably just trying to get me to focus on something else (which according to my reading I should do anyway)?

 

Oh, and justagirl, thanks for your perspective. I would like to know if you are working things out now. I could not really tell. It seemed like you were saying to hang in there and maybe things would work out. I would love to hear more about your situation.

 

Hopeful

[Becoming]

Don't threaten anything you're not willing to follow through with.

 

LadyJane is right on the money, and xill is right about I Cor., but the Greek is more nuanced. Isn't it interesting that "love does not insist upon its own way" didn't exactly show up? But I digress. . . .

 

I've been where you are with my husband having had an emotional email affair, and it hurts beyond words. It's been almost 10 years now, and it still hurts sometimes. We managed to make it through, though, and our marriage is stronger for it. We had absolutely no money at the time because I was in grad school, he was working fulltime plus extra to pay off a significant business failure debt. I was working part-time, going to school fulltime, and taking care of two small children.

 

Here's what I did that worked in our situation that worked: First of all, the emotional affair was completely unacceptable to me. When I found out, I wasn't altogether rational because I actually read pretty much the whole affair, and since he was saying to her what I had longed for years to have him say to me, I was devastated. I confronted him with the whole thing, which I had printed out so he couldn't lie his way out of it. Then I told him he had to leave. We also were isolated as a couple, far away from family with colleagues as friends. We had no money, my whole future was at stake, I had no idea how I would survive, but I let him know in no uncertain terms that his actions mitigated against him staying with me. I changed all the locks after he left so that he was literally locked out of his own home and couldn't just come and go as he pleased. It was important to me to secure the perimeter, as LJ put it, and it sent a clear message. It shocked him into reality, and he woke up as to the consequences of his actions.

 

I called a lawyer I knew from church and asked for a referral to a good divorce lawyer so I could know what the law was, review my options. This lawyer spent about 30 mins. with me and didn't charge me a thing. I don't know if this was a favor for his friend or what, but look into finding free legal advice. Divorce laws are different in each state, so you really do need legal advice. You also need to secure your assets immediately, cut her off from access to your accounts by opening a new account in your name only, transfer your funds to that account and deposit your pay checks there.

 

I called my family, informed my profs (who held my future in their hands) some of what was going on without details. They granted me mercy with time I needed to take care of myself and my children. I found out my colleagues were actually friends I'd never let in. I grew up in an alcoholic home, and I wasn't about to keep anybody's bad behavior secret anymore. Since the emails were done at his work, I threatened to go to his employer with the evidence (not a great idea, of course), but I wanted him to know I was no longer lying down just taking whatever from him.

 

We kept in touch during the separation; I wasn't going to keep him from seeing his children. During that time, I laid out the conditions for the continuation of the marriage, including first and foremost an immediate end of the affair. I also did some soul-searching. I had done some things that had pushed him away, so I realized part of the responsibility for what had gone wrong lay at my feet, and I confessed that and asked forgiveness. Instead of responding with anger, I let him see the pain his action was causing me.

 

After a week, he came with a truck to move his things into an apt. I fixed dinner, and as he got ready to take the first load out, he literally dropped everything, turned to me and said this is not what he wanted to do. What he really wanted was to be married to me, which is what I really wanted, too. We reconciled and cried our way through the next month, revealing all the things that weren't working, deciding to "remarry."

 

I wish I could tell you "they lived happily ever after." But you know there's no such fairy tale endings in real life. We did, however, stay together to raise two awesome children. We have more good days than bad now, and our marriage is still a work in progress growing stronger as we continue to work through the issues that we have.

 

I tell you all this so that you can remain hopefull, so that you do the practical things you need to do to take care of yourself and your children in this scary, scary time, so you see you're not as alone as you think, so you can take comfort in knowing it's possible to recover from this, but not without a willingness to go through a lot of pain. Pain is in your immediate future regardless of the outcome of this situation. The question now becomes how you choose to deal with that pain.

 

Now, there's a reason why she chose you over this other guy in the first place. Make her remember that reason. But I also agree that you need to grow a spine and let her know what is and is not acceptable to you. I suggest the current course of action. Move her out of your bedroom, if not your house. Make her be the one to go. Yes, she will protest. So what? Her actions are her actions; quit trying to control them, and instead do what you need to do to take care of yourself while still remaining as open to her and the possibility of real marriage as possible. Even after you move her out of your bed or house, continue to wine and dine her, meeting whatever her emotional need is.

 

You've done nothing wrong here, so why should you be inconvenienced? Tell her in no uncertain terms what is and is not acceptable to you. If she is a stay-at-home Mom, she can get a job. I know childcare costs would actually eat up most of her salary. You can move to a cheaper place. It will probably mean losing your house, but that's what her actions are doing, and she needs to see this. Most women are very attached to their homes. You need to let her see what's at stake in continuing her current course.

 

Another thing I see: children. What happens to many women when they have children is that they cease to be people. They become mommy robots, working all the time for someone else, meeting everyone else's needs while theirs go unmet for so long that one day they just want to Thelma and Louise it. She needed you emotionally and you weren't there. She wasn't able to turn to you because you were gone all the time. She may not have expressed her emotional needs in a way you understand, but you need to learn her emotional needs and how to meet them. For some women, doing dishes is tantamount to foreplay. Others want to talk to you to death. Every one of us, male and female, is different. Attending to her difference and delighting in and tending her in it is what makes a husband by definition of the word. Tending is ministering unto, not seeking to control. You're in the hardest stage of marriage, it seems to me. When your children are the ages they are, the work is insurmountable and it tends to pull marriages apart because you're both just plain working too hard. Work on the marriage is one of the first things to go, and it has to be a priority if the family's gonna stay together.

 

This has been so long, I know. But your job as husband is to tend what is growing so that it can blossom into goodness and beauty as a garden of delight for all. Whatever threatens the garden needs to be eradicated. Whatever is not flourishing needs pruned and watered and nourished. I'd be willing to bet she quit talking because she didn't feel listened to. As painful as it might be, you're gonna have to listen to what went wrong from her point of view. Listen and seek to understand, not argue with or debate. Until you really know what you're dealing with, you're just trying to garden in the dark.

[hopefulhusband]

Wow becoming, thats a lot to take in. I am going to re-read it but I will respond for now.

Your idea of making her leave seems to go against much of the other advice I have received, and something I can't do right now. I know that may make some of you angry or stop trying to help me, but I am sincerely trying to do most of the other things but in our situation, I feel that would escalate things to the point that what little good is left would then be gone. I truly understand the rationale behind it; making the consequences painfully obvious, but I think I am too unstable to be that strong. Maybe in another couple days. Maybe after meeting with a therapist (which by the way is something I have never even considered in my life to this point) I will be clearer as to what my own needs or even desire is in this situation. Right now I am consumed by pain. The books call it post-traumatic stress syndrome and it seems to fit. I can't eat, sleep, think or basically function, all the while needing to present a strong front and "do for myself." I was kidding you and me when I said I was getting better. Almost anything sets me off now and I hate that. Somehow I need to reel in these emotions before I can even think about setting down terms.

Anyway, thank you again for your detail, it helps so much, if only to keep me focused on the more important things.

At least when I am typing, I am not thinking too much about all the horrible potential (if that makes sense since I am typing about it).

 

Thanks,

Hopeful

[Becoming]

I understand. Each situation is different. I felt I could take the gamble, and it paid off for me. My OW was a cyberspace unreality. Your OM is very real. It would be a bigger risk.

 

You're doing all the right things. You're soliciting advice and doing nothing without careful consideration. I'm glad you're getting therapy because this is what really helps.

 

I remember feeling like a ragdoll being shaken over and over in the jaws of a very big dog. And like an elephant was sitting on my chest. It's awful. Just trying to keep your sanity is a valiant accomplishment. And you're doing quite well.

[hopefulhusband]

becoming, all,

 

I am so confused right now. She seems to be trying to just go on as if nothing has happened. Since we were not really talking much or having sex for about the last month 1/2, it is not terribly difficult for us to do. I know deep down that she must know something has to give but this process of being calm, and being patient is making me feel like garbage.

It is at this point that I am sooo tempted to lash out and make sure she still knows how much I hurt and want this to be resolved one way or another but that violates the ultimate tennant that I keep hearing from you all and the books/experts; keep it light and wait until SHE wants to talk about it.

How do I know she even gives a damn? She seems so capable of concealing her emotions and since SHE obviously has someone else to communicate with, what if she just doesn't need/want to with me?

The silver lineing is that I am reasonable certain that I need to keep my mouth shut right now because I want to open it so much and I am coming to realize that I often do the wrong thing when it comes to communication (offering solutions, getting defensive, not just understanding) and so I will continue to bite my tounge even though it's making me more miserable than I can almost bear.

 

Hopeful

[Becoming]

When's your therapy appt?

 

Maybe she's trying to get an honest emotion out of you beyond analytical speak and/or anger. Maybe she wants the tender part of you to tend as well and hasn't had that for so long she decided to go elsewhere. I dunno. Only you have access to that information. Or do you?

 

Sounds like the pattern of communication is the first thing you need to fix. I know nothing about military maneuvers, but sometimes analogies help, and you're a word person. I know enough from watching some war movies that communication is often key to winning a battle, something that has to be in place before you engage.

 

Sounds like you need to research communicating with your spouse, male-female patterns of communication. Use your smarts.

[Xillr8ng]

Confusion is 90% of the pain we are suffering.Its like being dropped off in the middle of nowhere with half of a map that we can't even read.You are handling this like a trooper!!!Being pateint is the hardest ...Do not lash out ....Trust me, she knows the pain she has inflicted on you .And she probably does not give a damn.Right now she is not thinking like the person that you thought you knew.The patience is ...waiting for that reasonable person to reappear again.It will take time but I promise you that that person will resuface at some point..May be a week may be a month may be several months...I'm sitting on a solid 5 monthys here..I havent even seen her in 2 months even though she lives close by.My wife is slowly starting to see the devastation she has left in her wake and is slowly starting to ask directions on how to get back home....VERY Slowly I might add...It is only patience that has kept me from freaking out and doing what I want to do, which is throw her crap out change the locks plow through a divorce yell and scream at her and end this BS.Anything you do right now will be magnified ten times over in her head.She is expecting the worse from you and will more than likely WAKE UP when she sees a different,calm,collective,hurt,loving husband in you.Actions speak louder..........I'm not saying let her walk all over you butI am saying walk away when something is said or done that hurts you.Cool down then return with your chin up and continue remembering that you can say things ALL day long and it will not be as efeective as your actions during this darkest hour.

[hopefulhusband]

When's your therapy appt?

 

Maybe she's trying to get an honest emotion out of you beyond analytical speak and/or anger. Maybe she wants the tender part of you to tend as well and hasn't had that for so long she decided to go elsewhere. I dunno. Only you have access to that information. Or do you?

 

Sounds like the pattern of communication is the first thing you need to fix. I know nothing about military maneuvers, but sometimes analogies help, and you're a word person. I know enough from watching some war movies that communication is often key to winning a battle, something that has to be in place before you engage.

 

Sounds like you need to research communicating with your spouse, male-female patterns of communication. Use your smarts.

 

I don't have one yet. Their offices are closed through today.

 

That's SO interesting and disturbing that you say that because one of the things that happened in the initial conversation (and this was before the admission of an affair) was that she asked me why I didn't seem to feel anything when she said she didn't love me. I was in shock. I was feeling TOO much to even begin to express. I couldn't believe she was asking that. She went on to say that she deserved love and didn't I think I deserved someone who would love me like I seemed to love her?

Of course at that point I just melted down and she did comfort me. That was actually the best part about the whole thing. She seemed to genuinly care if she hurt me. Of course I had NO idea how much she had by then.

The problem is that while you hit one thing RIGHT on the head, I am really confused about what it means or what to do. I am always the one in our relationship that is emotionally open and I always ask her to be as well but she has learned over her life to shut things in (maybe it's her britishness...lol).

In any event, I am too analytical (I suppose you know that by now) but I too am very emotional. I think the two don't mix well. I am also defensive. I realize too that I am needy, especially in the affection/conversation department. Her resentment in the past has come because I tend to try to get all my need for that taken care of when it fits into my busy schedule but how else can I do it?

 

One more thing you may really need to know, and this is no small thing to be sure but one that is a side issue at this point, is that I don't drink and she may be a problem drinker at best and she lies about her drinking. She will drink a bottle of wine a night, every night and most of the time she fills the bottle 1/3 with water and leaves in in the fridge to make it not seem like she had so much. I really think it's the dishonesty that bothers me, not the drinking itself.

It has been the times when she doesn't eat much and gets drunk late at night that most of our worst times have been, inculding this one. Every other time it has been swept aside by her saying she didn't mean it, etc, but not now. This factor is one of the main reasons why I have such a hard time being a hard-ass becase when she is not drinking, she is a different person, one that seems much more able function in our relationship.

Anyway, when I have ever talked about it with her, she gets defensive and claims that as a European, what she does is not out of the ordinary. There is some truth to that since many of her old college friends that were all from Europe did the same thing but I still think it's excessive. She thinks that since I don't drink (and never have) that I just hate that she does. I do not, I just hate the amount, cover up and the anger it brings in her.

I'm so sorry and grateful for all your time. I really hate myself right now for being so indecisive. I feel like I should know by now what to do but every time I give you all a little more information, I feel like you are giving me better advice. Not necessarily advice I want to hear, but from a more informed place.

I have led a charmed life to this point and luckily for me (that I am 35 and I have not had pain like this in my life), this is so far beyond any pain, physical or mental, I have ever experienced.

 

Hopeful

[hopefulhusband]

I'm not saying let her walk all over you butI am saying walk away when something is said or done that hurts you.Cool down then return with your chin up and continue remembering that you can say things ALL day long and it will not be as efeective as your actions during this darkest hour.

 

This is exactally the path I am on. When I get emotional, I leave the room. When I want to lash out, I don't. When I want to ask about him, I don't. The problem is that she doesn't say anything to hurt me. She just doesn't say anything at all.

I just try to survive and do what I can to make it through this.

I think my dignity is already a little fractured so I am not really concerned about maintaining it other than in her eyes.

I am willing to suffer for our marriage for now but everytime she leaves the house I am sure she's going to see him even though I doubt that's the case. I am sure she's on the phone with him whenever I can't hear her. I'm sure they're plotting the end of our marriage and those thoughts paralyze me to no end.

 

To everyone who has said not to talk about it and wait, is it ok to calmly ask her to continue with the honesty she used to break my heart and keep me informed about this other relationship? I don't know if I said this or not, but she did say that she would need to make a decision eventually...so can't I try to make sure that's happening or do I still wait?

She asked if she should have continued to lie, and the answer is yes if she is going to go back to it now, don't you think?

 

Hopeful

[Woggle]

If she is hiding her drinking she has a problem and a bottle of wine a night is excessive. I like to drink but I am honest about it and I don't drink everyday.

[Ladyjane14]

Here's a 'mantra' for you, Hopeful. "If I am not in control of my emotions....then my emotions are in control of ME".

 

Your wife has lost some focus. She's lost some emotional control. If there's going to be salvation for your marriage, then YOU are the one who needs to be clear-headed enough to accomplish it.

 

There are reasons that a WS (wayward spouse) goes off the deep end and sticks a monkey-wrench into what was a pretty good relationship. You'll never find out what those reasons are, unless you CALM DOWN.

 

It could be that your wife is experiencing some depression or anxiety. That could be a possible explanation for the 'self-medicating' with alcohol. In order to assess that possibility, YOU have to be someone she can talk to and trust.

 

It could be that your wife is responding to the stress in her life by obsessing over an 'old flame'. That's more common than you would think in both males and females when dealing with the daunting responsibility that goes along with rearing small children. The mind casts back to a time of less burden when Individuality for yourself was the most paramount thing in your life, when you weren't wearing the labels of "Spouse" or "Parent".

 

And while it could be that she's just waiting to "get her ducks in a row", (which is actually the least likely scenario), you'll still need to be in control of your emotional response if you want to save your marriage.

 

YES, you can and should talk to her about your thoughts and feelings, just as you should LISTEN to hers. You can ask her for "honesty". But NO, you shouldn't get into protracted, hurtful relationship talk or ultimatums which force decisions prematurely. When the conversation escalates to the point in which it is argumentative, and things are being said in ways that are not constructive....then you BOTH should step away and take a time out. You can make an agreement to put that rule in place before you begin discussion.

 

I recognize Becomings story in it's similarity to my own. I used nearly the EXACT same techniques that she used to good effect as well. Before I ever knew about the existance of Marriagebuilders, I had reasoned out these techniques on my own. I was 'flying by the seat of my pants' but I inadvertantly used the MB 'plan A' by making it a priority to meet my husband's ENs and setting boundaries.

 

This is a time in which you have to recognize that YOUR needs will go largely unmet. Your partner is in crisis, and you have to respond to that first. It's unimportant that you agree with her feelings. What IS important is that you accept them as hers and prioritize them as if they were your own. Truth is a matter of perspective in that whatever your partner believes...that's what you have to deal with. If she believes that you are not supportive of her, then you won't change her mind by arguing that you are.

 

All that said, much as Becoming did, I found out the EXACT perameters of the extramarital relationship and I drew a line in the sand. In fact, I met with a lawyer BEFORE I even confronted him with my evidence, and I asked for a divorce. Bear in mind that our relationship had been troubled for something like a decade. Our relationship had become largely adversarial, with neither of us feeling loved or understood. I had nothing much to lose at that point which was not already lost. And I meant what I said when I asked for a divorce. This was not an ultimatum or a gambit.

 

Personally, I think that having a willingness to end the marriage is important. It clarifies the choices which are layed before your partner. "No, I will not wait here on the back burner while you explore your feelings for someone else. If you make this choice, it is irrevokable. I will no longer be your safety net. I will no longer be your friend."

 

I hadn't really left much of a choice for my husband when I asked him for a divorce. My "truth" at the time was that my husband wouldn't care. He'd be glad to have the freedom to move on and be happy. But I couldn't have been more wrong. What he REALLY wanted was for me to be 'on his team' again, a partner rather than and adversary.

 

When I wholeheartedly adopted that idea, when I embraced partnership and joined his team.....he blossomed into this wonderful, loving partner who reciprocated my efforts totally. It was my husband who was in emotional crisis though and his behavior had been symtomatic of that. So in partnership...we focused on his needs first.

 

This is difficult for a BS who is hurting from the sting of rejection. It feels unnatural to prioritize your partner who is behaving in ways that are definately NOT conducive to marital satisfaction. But their behavior is oftentimes symptomatic of internal struggle and strong emotion. That's why it's important to address it FIRST.

 

All that said, you aren't in a position that is needful of 'ultimatums'. Your wife hasn't acted on her feelings as yet. As long as she's still 'on the fence', you are free to prioritize her needs. It's when she jumps down on the other side of the fence that you withdraw. So STAND YOUR GROUND as a loving and supporting partner. Do not run from the conflict. You will lose the struggle entirely if you do.

 

Afterall, giving her "space" simply means that you aren't pushing for a resolution. That's all it means. It doesn't mean that you should tolerate destructive behavior. It doesn't mean that you should move to another room or that she should move to another room. You're not a doormat. "Giving her "space" just means that you don't follow her around the house exerting pressure to resolve the conflict. It just means that you are backing off on demands to have YOUR needs met for now.

[hopefulhusband]

Ladyjane,

 

Once again, you have been insightful. I love the way you characterize what "giving space" means. That seems doable for me. I can't just not EVER say anything, but I can resist the urge to shove my need for resolution down her throat. I will keep trying.

We went out with the kids together today and it went pretty well. One of the main issues she has with me is that I am often angry around the kids, something that is really unlike my normal, or pre-kid, personality. Since this crisis began, I have made tremendous effort to curb that anger and had much success. I have gone from shouting and getting angry at the littlest thing, to calmly accessing the situation and reacting calmly to it. I think I am able to do this now because it's the same thing I am doing with my wife.

In any event, I will keep posting because until I can see a therapist (which is not covered by my insurance so may be longer than I thought) this is my release and comfort zone.

Thanks again.

 

Hopeful

[hopefulhusband]

She seems so easily calm and willing to pretend. How can I tell if she's in emotional turmoil? How can I get someone who was never willing to open up before, do it now? Is there a way I act? Something I say, like "honey, if you want to talk, I want you to know that despite everything, I am here for you"? I am at a point where I don't know what if anything is the direct, next thing to do...unless it is just wait. Waiting doesn't seem like it will lead to more openness and conversation at this point. Maybe thats where you all come in, to keep telling me to stay the course.

 

Hopeful

[Ladyjane14]

She seems so easily calm and willing to pretend. How can I tell if she's in emotional turmoil? How can I get someone who was never willing to open up before, do it now? Is there a way I act? Something I say, like "honey, if you want to talk, I want you to know that despite everything, I am here for you"? I am at a point where I don't know what if anything is the direct, next thing to do...unless it is just wait. Waiting doesn't seem like it will lead to more openness and conversation at this point.

 

This is why you need to give yourself time to study.

 

If you read through the 'basic concepts' section at MB, you'll find a link on the left hand side called The Three States of Mind in Marriage. What you're seeing in your wife is "the state of Withdrawal", while you, yourself, are in the "the state of "Conflict".

 

Certainly both of these states are representative of turmoil. How could they be otherwise, when you consider the lack of emotional intimacy in the marriage?

 

For right now, it's okay for you to admit to your wife that you are uncertain as to how to proceed. It's honest.

 

You can let her know that you're ALWAYS open to conversation, and that you're eager to resolve your differences. Ask her to come to you whenever she feels like talking. Let her know that you're waiting to hear what she has to say, but that you are ACTIVELY endeavoring to give her emotional space so that she can sort out her thoughts. It's okay to admit that you're having a hard time not pushing for resolution. You might even ask her to let you know when she feels pressured.

 

Observe her closely. Identify her ENs, and as Becoming said 'tend to them as you would a garden'. Let her know that you're sorry that you weren't paying attention earlier, but that you're working to correct it now. Admit that, YES you are striving to be a better husband in reaction to the current conflict, but that you are also striving for permanent change in improving the marriage altogether.

 

You don't have to be cagey. You just have to be honest and patient.

[A Beer Drinker]

I agree with the advice, give her space. My situation was simmilar, but I moved out within a week of her telling me (exactly what you heard after nine years of marriage "I love you, but have never been in love with you"). It has been about three months for me and I have someone else in my life now, whom with I feelings for that I never felt with my wife.

 

My point, everything happens for a reason. If you guys are ment to be together, all will work out.

[justagirl64]

Hi there Hopeful

 

I feel for you that you are so in the dark about the situation and where you stand. Your choices are limited at this point.

 

Your wife seems to have built up some resentment over time for whatever reason, it may not be your fault, but just that her needs were not being met. This may be why you feel like you are confronting a wall. She has been thinking about this for sometime...her defences are high.

 

Re the down-playing of the OM. Naturally if she has emotional and or physical connections with someone else, she will want to play this down. I'm sure she can see how painful this whole ordeal must be for you and her family and she does want to add to this. Also, I dare say she may be afraid of the consequences of admitting to more than friendship.

 

I know the advice I will give seems insane and very hard to do but my feeling is that giving her space and time will help. She will be very hardened to any resolutions you may throw at her at this point in time. She has to see for herself the course she is taking. As I said, inevitably she will confront problems with her current situation. She could not possibly engage in a meaningful relationship with anyone whilst she is this predicament. She will come back for support soon. You need to summon all you strength and calm to appear unaffected by this. I kNOW IT SOUNDS MAD. But you need to appear in control of your emotions for her to turn to you.

 

Its not completely 'hopeless'...there is the opportunity to re-estabilsh communication at the very least, which is the starting point here.

 

As for my situation....well, we can discuss that later, you will need all your reserves for your own issues now....good luck .

[justagirl64]

Of course there is another option and that is you can choose to be more confrontational. This behaviour has more risk associated in that it can alienate her even more, or she may decide to be confrontational back to you. In any case appearing in control will increase your chances. Best of Luck.

[hopefulhusband]

Well, it seems like these days are really weeks. Each hour is excruciatingly long and painful.

I told her that I was here for her to talk to anytime she needed to and she just kinda looked at me and said ok. I got nothing in terms of whether she would really do it. She said over and over the first night that she didn't even know what to say since she has felt this way for a long time now (bout 5 years, or since the kids were born).

I am not sure she has anything to say that she hasn't already said. If she has it in her head that I cannot be the romantic love of her life, and that is what she is looking for, then I am left with only the hope that she comes to her senses and realizes that marriage is so much more than romantic love, and so much less too. I know so well that feeling of "love" or infatuation fades but sometimes it takes a long time, and if she has this for this other guy (which she re-affirmed she is only friends with but said "it seems like no matter what I say, you won't believe me") then it may last longer than I can wait.

Justagirl, I would love to be optimistic, and I know from my reading, that it is paramount that I am, but I can't seem to muster that feeling of hope (nevermind my ID). The longer this goes with her pretending that everything is normal, the more cold and dead I grow inside, or alternately, depending on what minute of the hour it is, angry and hurt, the more crazy I am going to be.

I can't take this. I start back working tomorrow and I have no idea how to get through the day as if nothing is wrong, and I don't really want to talk about with them.

Aw screw it, the bottom line is that I feel like I am going insane and the one person who has been there for me over the better part of the last decade is not only not there for me, but holding the egg beater scrambling my brains and the knife stabbing my heart, all the while pretending she doesn't hear me screaming!

 

Hopeful

[justagirl64]

Hi

You are totally justified in feeling what you feel. This is where the help of guy in your predicament would be useful. I can only say that its not easy being on the recieving end of this. And for a guy it can be so much worse because I think men seem to want to know where they stand. It is totally 'normal' for you to feel anger and fustration one minute and the next to feel 'dead'. I think you will soon find a place where you can reside but still keep a cord to her...you are understandbly angry that she has not allowed you the opportunity to address any issues. These are things you now need to address for yourself...perhaps you put the car in neutral some time ago and stopped trying? On the other hand she has not been fair to you if she has never communicated her unhappiness. Hang in there, focus on your boys and your work and as I suggest, keep it cool and distant at home as much as you can, and try not to dig up too much dirt on her... Whatever happens you will keep your dignity over this!

 

(I guess I should add, that because it seems that resentment is high in her, it will take longer for her to work things out....it may take a week, weeks or months....but you will soon be in a position to handle it much better, you have really done a good thing for yourself to seek external help like this, most guys just fume and build up anger...so you are already on the road)!

[hopefulhusband]

I hope, other than being therapy for me, and a never ending stream of consciousness rant for you all to endure, that this may help someone else going through the same thing. It seems to be common enough but I suspect that most men are not willing, as you said justagirl, to seek help, or open up like I am. I think it is a weakness and a strength.

 

Time for some more esoteric stuff if you have the time for it...and thank you for that.

 

I would first like get clarity from some of you though. You realize that through all this non-communication, she is probably continuing to talk things out with this other guy and relate her feelings to him, which I'm sure, as such the nice, considerate, wonderful gentleman (not to mention home wrecking, wife poaching, kid's life ruining, piece of crap) that he is, he is just being a great listener and "being there for her." I assume knowing this, you are STILL saying to wait it out, right. I can do that, and probably will but as someone once said, growing a set of balls (or lack thereof) has occurred to me....anyway..

 

Having read a few chapters in a couple books on infidelity, especially emotional infidelity, I know that one thing that is true about these kind of things is that she can see no wrong in him because he exists in a bubble outside all the problems of her life.

I even said this to her in the initial conversation; that of course he will get to continue to be the good guy, comforting her in her time of distress at home. He gets to be the thing she goes to when she escapes me, the kids, the bills, and her awful life.

All the while, I am not only the same a-hole that she doesn't love anymore, but I am indelibly identified with all the so-called negative forces in her life; the kids (she loves them but they're a handful as all kids are at this age), her parents, the bills, my anger (which by the way is NEVER violent, or anything close with either her or the kids), her lack of a career (she was a professional student when we met if you know what I mean), and anything else she never told me is bothering her, that just seeing me reminds her of.

So while I have more info from expert sources, that really just confirms what I figured out on night one of the end of my world, I cannot say it feels better.

 

As you so perfectly stated justagirl, really, all this posting, soul searching and need of information from her is about is my desperate need to know where I stand. Even if where I stand is on a ledge 50 stories up, I need to know that. If I don't know I'm there, then it's not up to me whether I jump, climb in the window and find another way out, or grab onto her and try to get through it together.

 

As you can see, my mind is never at ease with this. I could write for hours, but I do not want to bore you. I am so comforted by your help, but it's like a drug that I seem to need over and over again.

 

Thanks,

Hopeful