Excellent Book Recommendation about 2nd Chances

[Extra Truth]

Okay, I've found a book has given me considerable hope, and thankfully it addresses situations where the ex has completely left the relationship.

 

"Love Tactics: How to Win the One You Want - Successful Techniques for Getting the One You Love to Love You Back" by Thomas W. McKnight and Robert H. Phillips.

 

The philosophy is that friendship, respect and passion are together the essential ingredients for showing love for a person, and that a heart cannot help responding to the demonstration of these efforts, and each is an effort. The books shows techniques for wooing the one you love in a way that builds one of the three.

 

Better yet, the second section of the book deals with how to win back the one you lost. The only caveat is that, you have to assess how much damage has realistically been done, and whether you truly love them as opposed to being obsessed with the one you can't have. Then you have to decide if you have the stomach (ie, patience) to develop yourself, and PATIENTLY, rebuild the respect and friendship back so you can win their heart back.

 

Frankly, and this is kind of a dig, but then again, maybe most here haven't met someone they truly love and know it, I see on this board too many people who just give up due to a lack of patience and fortitude. That's probably okay. The good thing about this book is that, for the people who are certain, that is mature enough to realize they had a truly good person worthy of the time and effort and pain to win back, there is a way to win them back. Everyone else I've spoken too is purely negative. This book offers hope and a rational plan. It doesn't have much to say about NC. I haven't finished it yet, but it appears to me that NC is not necessarily recomended, but I'll fill you in on that when I finish. In the meantime, I do recommend checking it out. I've been practically hibernating in the relationship section of the bookstore and this is the best book I've found yet about how to repair relationships.

 

Good luck, and maintain that hope if you truly love you one you've found.

 

Blessings,

 

J in LA

[Extra Truth]

Oh, I should add, I don't have any affiliation with this book, I just found it extremely positive and immediate unlike, "My Boyfriend's Back" by Donna Hanover, where couples reunite after having separate families decades later. No, this book is much more proactive, but you still have to be patient, which in my case, is practically killing me.

 

The flipside of that is, we should all work on ourselves in the meantime so we can make the best pitch possible when we go after that 2nd chance.

 

Good luck all!

 

J in LA

[livinlifetofullest]

I've been reading the Love Tactics book too, and checking the website. It basically works on the premise that love is dominantly based on FRIENDSHIP, where you have to consistently fulfill the One You Want's emotional needs and make them dependent on you.

 

Afterwards, you need to command their RESPECT. This is done by proving to them with your actions that you can live a happy, well-balanced life with or without them, and that you will not take crap from them or anyone. You do so by becoming more independent and emotional aloof. Do you want a clingy/needy boyfriend? I don't. How can you respect someone who would bend their backs to please you? You can't. Hence, Love Tactics tells you to build up your self-respect and how to command respect from others.

 

Lastly, you ignite PASSION by following the concept: "People want what they can't have." This can be done by understaying your welcome and withholding what they want. In other words, balance Doubt and Hope in the heart of the One You Want. Instead of being too available, live your life to the fullest and don't wait for them. Instead of playing hard to get, BE hard to get. Introduce some doubt in them thinking that you're interested. Be assertive but don't be too eager.

 

Now, I am not at all affiliated with them, but I've read the book and I like it. I realized a lot of them are helpful, and I've yet to have my second chance, but at least, I'm becoming a stronger, more positive person because of it.

 

I've lost my boyfriend because he wasn't "in love" with me. A few weeks later, he came back saying that he loves me and misses me but "needed time." But after several cycles of hot and cold behavior, I realized the reason is that he didn't respect me, and that was why he remained passionless towards me. So now, I'm stronger than ever, with a "take-it-or-leave-it" attitude. I'm no longer going to bend my back at my expense just to please him.

 

Will it work? We'll see when I see him later this week. I think it will. Hope this helps. :-)

[livinlifetofullest]

Btw, the book doesn't say a lot about NC. Actually, it encourages developing a close friendship to the One You Want, which means you'll have to be in regular contact with the person (with you initiating, but always the One You Want following up... if not, you back away and try again in a later date). It tells you that you have to be there in person to develop a close relationship.

 

Now, here's the catch: You'd have to be emotionally strong to do so. A lot can't do this. You shouldn't break down and cry and beg them to get back to you. This will just drive them away from you. Instead, don't talk about commitment/relationship at all, as if it doesn't matter. Just be there friend, and JUST THEIR FRIEND for the moment, and let them grow dependent on you.

 

It's when they are emotionally dependent on you, at the same time, respecting you, then you can start sparking passion by using several strategies in the book.

[J dub]

There are enough manipulation tactics out there to fill a football field, however it's one's own desire and decisions that drive them. I was once told, you should never do X to get someone else to do Y. The only thing you control is yourself and how you handle things.

 

Being a womans friend is just that: a friend for her to lean on. Please bear in mind that you are going to have to build the emotional strength to possibly endure the day that youre sitting together talking, only to be interrupted by your ex's friend inquiring to your ex, "say, how did that hot date go last night you were so excited about???" and you will have to sit and be supportive, as a friend.

 

The problem here, is that by being someone's friend and trying to ultimately "win" them, isnt being a friend at all. Friend's do not have ulterior motives, and if your ex discovers your intent and blows the whole cover you may never SEE them again, let alone talk to them.

 

Even the most intriquitely (sp?) plotted and executed plans will backfire. Sometimes tenfold. Are you willing to stoop to the level of Friend status, where one generally never steps back up to relationship status? Listen to all the people here saying, "I know (so and so) who were together X amount, the spent X amount of time APART (key word here), and then reconciled and are now married". It is that time you spend away from eachother that can ignite the spark, to remind us of what we had and what we now miss and long for, to trigger our desire for the other to return. Being around eachother and not allowing for that crucial reflection stage/time, is what is ultimately going to screw up your shot altogether.

 

One must miss you before one truly understands how much they love/need/want you with them.

 

I'm sorry to foil the whole idea of planning ways to get them back, but you are so much better off worrying about yourself and your needs at this point, than worrying about someone else's who doesnt even want to be with you any longer.

[sick of it]

It is that time you spend away from eachother that can ignite the spark, to remind us of what we had and what we now miss and long for, to trigger our desire for the other to return.

 

 

What sucks is when only one of you realizes this.

[J dub]

What sucks is when only one of you realizes this.

Sticking around and becoming a burden is why they have such things as "restraining orders" and laws against trespassing, harassment, etc.

 

I cant understand why someone would want to make someone they claimed to love, feel obligated to hang out with them? I'd much rather be by myself then with someone who's giving me a pity trip. F that:sick:

[livinlifetofullest]

I agree with you, JDub. But if you've read the book, Love Tactics speaks like any relationship books out there. Basically, you'd have to work on yourself first and be a beter person. It tells you some of the ways you can do it (e.g., smile a lot, be optimistic, be a good listener, etc.). Then, work on your confidence and self-respect, without which, how can you command respect from others and your SO?

 

Other tactics are just specifically telling you where you can improve yourself, increase your self-respect and just don't let the guy be overconfident of your feelings. It gave me a lot of insights on how to respect myself, hence, attracting respect from others as well.

 

I think a lot of the "tactics" of Love Tactics have bearing. There's the tactic, "Drop 'em cold," and "Strategically withdrawing," which reminds me so much of NC. It gives the One You Want time and space to miss you, if they still care for you.

 

Yes JDub, I've read your posts and hold you to the highest esteem, and I think that NC works well when there's no ulterior motive and you're using the time/effort to heal yourself. I'm actually doing limited NC myself and it works in decreasing ones fervor in pursuing an already-ended relationship. I'm not using NC to get him back, as much as to give myself time to heal. But at the same time, I do admit NC can sometimes get someone back, as in your situation. It's not a guarantee, and one shouldn't depend on NC just to get someone back, but it happens. So some "tactics" do have bearing.

 

It may sound devious, but actually, don't let the title, "Love Tactics" fool you. Aren't healthy relationships based on friendship, respect and passion? If one is missing, the relationship will ultimately fail. A rational step-by-step process is better than walking blind.

[livinlifetofullest]

Hope I'm able to explain this well...

 

Hmmm... I am not saying you hang around the person when your presence is unappreciated. Or stalking. That's just crazy.

 

But for example, your best friend. Ideally, your best friend fulfills your emotional needs, and everytime you hang around with them, you feel good about them and about yourselves. Interactions are warm and enjoyable. As you hang out with them more, it becomes a habit and you miss it more when it disappears.

 

Love Tactics walk in the same line. It doesn't tell you to overwhelm the person; just take it slow. If you build such friendship gradually, that person would want to be with you more and more. And not because of pity. It's because you've become a person EVERYBODY wants to be with. Afterwards, if you've built enough independence and self-respect about yourself (e.g., being able to live a happy, fulfilling life with or without a man), you also command respect. They see you're not willing to take as much crap from them. They can gradually see you as someone that's above the crowd, who can interact with them in a consistent positive basis, and NOT need them.

 

I can talk about passion later, but to be strong, one has to reduce one's fervor for the other. A good way to do that is to initiate No Contact until one's feelings has calmed down, up to a point that you don't get emotional everytime you see him. This is what I'm doing now, and it's helping tons. But at the same time, I personally believe that the process Love Tactics talk about does make sense.

[gordon_gc]

I do agree with the fact that before starting contact at a friend, it is essential to be emotionally stable and to look and FEEL strong.

I do wonder if someone can tell me how to handle contacts though. These last few days, I have been in touch with my exgf and have been emotionally detached. However, I have to say that I am still scared about how my contacts are perceived...I don't want to appear as 'too pushy'. Can anyone advice me how to proceed ?

[livinlifetofullest]

Being emotional aloof is good. Make sure every interaction is warm and enjoyable but understay your welcome. Meaning, be just as friendly as ever, but just start cutting every contact short. When you meet her, demonstrate in every action that you enjoy being with her, BUT you can still survive very well and go on with your life and be happy without her if she ever takes you for granted. As they say, "if you pursue a shadow, it will flee. Flee a shadow and it will pursue."

 

Don't be the one initiating the contact all the time and be willing to wait out between contacts (so as not to look pushy). Don't be afraid to be without her for an extended period of time, and when she's out of your life, make sure that your life is as happy and productive and as fruitful as ever. When she starts missing you and starts coming back around, show pleasure to see her but be restrained. Don't throw out a welcome mat saying "Walk On Me!" No one wants a pushover, so don't be.

 

Oh, and don't be scared and start acting (and even feeling) that you don't care. Hope this helps.

[Extra Truth]

Being emotional aloof is good. Make sure every interaction is warm and enjoyable but understay your welcome. Meaning, be just as friendly as ever, but just start cutting every contact short. When you meet her, demonstrate in every action that you enjoy being with her, BUT you can still survive very well and go on with your life and be happy without her if she ever takes you for granted. As they say, "if you pursue a shadow, it will flee. Flee a shadow and it will pursue."

 

Oh, and don't be scared and start acting (and even feeling) that you don't care.

 

Hi there

 

I'm still working my way through Love Tactics along with a whole slew of other relationship books that keep advocating the same: honor yourself by knowing what you need to stay healthy.

 

I wonder what your read is on this. My ex asked me to respect boundaries by saying that I am being selfish by wanting to get back together--that pretty much tied up hands and set up a scenario where I can't contact her without disrespecting her, and hence being selfish. Pretty clever, eh?

 

Now, after much processing, I have a few questions for her, just be be sure she is who I think she is and worth pining after and then attempting to rebuild a relationship very very slowly a la the Love Tactics way.

 

And I want to put all my cards on the table about who I am now that I've been totally exposed to the point that I'm healthy again. I'm still working on myself and equalizing my emotional stability so it's a little early yet, but I don't want to wait too long.

 

As you know from reading Love Tactics, a big part of rebuilding friendship is being there in person. I don't want to blow it by violating those boundaries, yet I worry about a rival satisfying her emotional needs before I can show that I can, and before I can demonstrate that she got it all wrong about me. So the timing here is critical.

 

Frankly, I'm thinking of beginning an anonymous seduction of her (sending anonymous tulips, etc), while working on my further development. In any case, ow long to wait, that's the question. I think she'll see me if I ask, but I'm not sure how upset she'll be. If after all our cards are on the table, she rejects me still, then fine. If after asking my questions I can tell she isn't worth fighting for, fine. But I need to know, so maybe a doubt will be placed in her mind.

 

I don't know if I should I approach her as the friend or have a 'formal sit down' with questions (probably not the latter, eh)? Pretty tough to do either since I'm basically waiting for her to call me, which may never happen, and every day she is probably becoming more distant--but who knows maybe she is thinking of me too, right?

 

What do you think after having read Love Tactics? Thanks!

 

J in LA

 

PS Just my opinion, but love doesn't happen by itself, nor life. It's all about action and choice. I don't think love tactics is manipulation either, but a psychologically well-founded program that any normal healthy person would benefit from. Just my opinion though.

[AltplanB]

What about with a woman who has gotten over exs and keeps them as friends. She keeps in contact with all her long time exs and i am the most recent. I just recently ran into her in Vegas over New years. She was drunk and professed how much she missed me and how she was very torn over her feelings for me. She said she loved me but didn't know what she was doing and was so confused with everything in her life. She was very depressed and started making out with me ( i was drunk too). I ditched the girl i was with and helped her make it back home. The whole time she is flirting with other guys and when i leave her for 1 hour, she ends up making out with some black dude. Really bothers me that she is so messed up. She told me the next day that this was her at her worst. I then proceeded on taking care of her and supporting her through her problems for the next couple days. She seems to be treating me like a friend but she doesn't know what she wants from me. I can tell. She is still wondering if she might get her feelings back because she knows that i am a great guy to be with and she doesn't understand why she lost them.

 

I guess what i am asking is, how should i proceed? Should i just support her through her problems: bulimia, fathers death, insomnia... or should i just back off and become another ex. We havce been broken up for just over 2 months and she went out with a guy for over a month after me but they broke up. I guess i don't know what to do.

[CaliGuy]

You guys....sigh. Listen to J Dub more.

 

When a breakup occurs, the first thing you have to do is say "What did I do wrong?" Don't immediately put all blame of failure on the Ex. They fell out of love with you for a reason. What was it?

 

You have to heal yourself first. That's why NC is so good for that. Go into NC mode and after a while you'll be able to see the relationship for what it was.

 

Bottom line is you can't force your Ex to take you back no matter what you do.

 

Not to generalize here but most of these relationship failures I can see are caused by low self-esteem, causing you to be clingy and grasp at your Ex. This only serves to drive them away further. In addition if you never get them back (and chances are slim, sorry) and you don't focus on improving yourself (excercise, work on confidence, self-esteem, etc) you will have a hard time with every relationship you have.

 

Look I know you love your Ex and you want them back, but really, would you want someone who is clinging on your every word, who suffocates you and doesn't have a life of their own outside the relationship? Probably not. Think about a time a girl or guy pined for you and how much of a turnoff that was.

 

That's what your Ex is feeling right now. That's why NC is so damned good for you. You need to realize you'll be fine without the ex and start working out fixing yourself. The books are nice but they will not bring a lover back to you if you're still the same person they left.

 

There are more reasons such as not paying enough attention to them, proving you loved them, etc. But it all boils down to you, not them. Focus on yourself, fix the issues that you have and resolve yourself to do so or you will always have the same problems over and over.

 

It took me years to figure this out. Wish I had known this when I was 21 and not in my late 30s.

[CaliGuy]

What about with a woman who has gotten over exs and keeps them as friends. She keeps in contact with all her long time exs and i am the most recent. I just recently ran into her in Vegas over New years. She was drunk and professed how much she missed me and how she was very torn over her feelings for me. She said she loved me but didn't know what she was doing and was so confused with everything in her life. She was very depressed and started making out with me ( i was drunk too). I ditched the girl i was with and helped her make it back home. The whole time she is flirting with other guys and when i leave her for 1 hour, she ends up making out with some black dude. Really bothers me that she is so messed up. She told me the next day that this was her at her worst. I then proceeded on taking care of her and supporting her through her problems for the next couple days. She seems to be treating me like a friend but she doesn't know what she wants from me. I can tell. She is still wondering if she might get her feelings back because she knows that i am a great guy to be with and she doesn't understand why she lost them.

 

I guess what i am asking is, how should i proceed? Should i just support her through her problems: bulimia, fathers death, insomnia... or should i just back off and become another ex. We havce been broken up for just over 2 months and she went out with a guy for over a month after me but they broke up. I guess i don't know what to do.

 

Alt, my best advice to you is run away from this chick. I know you don't want to hear that but she's got issues and is in no right frame of mind to have a relationship with not just you but anyone.

 

And I'm upset that you ditched another girl to help her out. You're an enabler in regards to her and that's a bad thing. She has to fall flat on her face on her own, LET HER.

 

A relationship based on 'helping' someone else is doomed to failure. I know it's hard for you to see that now but I've been there myself and you're just like I was. I don't help the ex anymore. I don't call her, don't talk to her and don't dare offer to do anything for her.

 

She misses me I know that already but she uses men to get what she needs and then dumps them. This chick will do the same to you until you start respecting yourself and tell yourself you deserve better.

 

I know you do, when will you realize it?

[livinlifetofullest]

ExtraTruth, you're right about respecting oneself by putting yourself first. First, if your ex asked you to respect boundaries, then do it! Do NC for at least 8 weeks or more. Cut her off right now. Take some time off, improve yourself and calm down your feelings for her. Don't contact her when she specifically said for you not to. When you contact her, she must not even hint that you're that into her. And the only way to do that is to give yourself the time to heal yourself.

 

Second, DO NOT PUT ALL YOUR CARDS ON THE TABLE!!! This is a no-no. She deserves NO explanation at all, and if you're improving yourself, just do it, and don't say anything else. Keep the mystery so next time she sees you, the impact is more drastic. Be patient. Otherwise, you'll start at Step 1 again.

 

As for the rival, don't be afraid of them. If they want to date others, let them. Chances are, relationships don't really work out unless friendship, respect and passion are in place. And usually, a rival may "have" her because they are still high in infatuation. But after the disillusion phase comes, she'll rethink her decision. And if you're there answering her emotional needs, you'll come out the better choice. Don't rush or sweat the competition!

 

As for anonymous seduction, I don't think that works. You may end up looking like a stalker. Especially after she said to respect her boundaries.

 

As of now, just let her go and cut her off. Improve yourself, and after some time has passed, then try again. Hmmm... instead of me explaining over and over again, you can check out the Love Tactics website. Just google it. I'm sure you'll find it loads of help.

[livinlifetofullest]

AltplanB, yes, she misses you, torn and confused. Blah, blah blah. I've heard the same lines before by my ex. But the thing is, it's still not enough for her to decide to be with you. Until that time happens, trust her actions/behavior and not her words. Flirting with other guys and making out with a black dude show you where you stand in your relationship with her. It's over. Believe what she does. And next time this happens, don't ditch anyone for her anymore.

 

Don't be a wuss anymore. She has her problems. Let her take care of them. Do you want to be her therapist/dad? Or her boyfriend? She already knows you're a great guy to begin with, but how can she respect you if you're trying so hard to please her? The reason why she lost interest is because she knows she has you already. And she can have you whenever she wants to. That's why she's passionless towards you.

 

My advice: Back off. Work again on building your self-respect and stop being at her beck and call. Be busy yourself and calm your feelings towards her. If she calls you, hopefully, you're busy going out with friends, getting fit on the gym and improving your life. Give her time to miss you. And when she calls, don't go over. Be elusive and build up more interest in her!

 

Go visit the Love Tactics website. Though from what I'm reading, once you build up your self-esteem and calm down your feelings, you'd ask yourself why you wanted her in the first place. She doesn't seem to be the type of girl who's fitting in a long-term relationship.

 

Watch what you ask for, because you just might get it.

[livinlifetofullest]

I'd have to agree with CaliGuy about building up your self-respect. How can others respect you if you don't respect yourself? Remember the person whom your ex loved? That person was probably independent, carefree and fun. Where's that person now? Gone.

 

Work on building up your self-respect, and then, they will respect you. A good way is to do NC for some time. Otherwise, you can kiss your second chance goodbye.

[J dub]

Wow, AltPlanB, do you realize the incredible amount of power you just single handedly gave over to your ex on new years by leaving this other girl? Do you have any idea how unattractive it is to be babied and watched over when youre trying to have fun? It sounds like your ex was out having a good time, ran into you, had some drunken emotions spill out and then in her haste she made out with another fella....which only should have communicated to you that what she said to you wasnt meant to be taken in the sense that she wants you back or is even entertaining the idea of it. Actions speak louder than words my friend. She is speaking volumes to her by her actions. Leave her alone, you had a girl with you and you ditched her...man...

 

ET, she specifically told you not to contact her and yet you are thinking up all kinds of ways to completely disrespect what she asked for. Has it perhaps occured to you that the ones who think there's a sliver of hope to get back together, dont usually say things like dont ever contact me? You have to understand, she formulated her decision to leave you based off her own ideas and things she saw in you which she didnt like. You are downright disobeying her wish to be left alone by sending her ANYTHING, and to anonymously seduce her is only going to spell o-b-s-e-s-s-i-v-e to her. Laying cards out on the table is the worst thing possible to do to a woman who has left you...it eliminates all the mystery and excitement in the unknown and instead shows you are yet to move on in your life or let her go...not attractive in the least. Thats great if youre seeking out self-help for YOURSELF, however your main goal here is attaining the ex which has absolutely nothing to do with yourself, but rather, her. By making her your whole world, you lose sight of whats going on in yours -- and thats a huge gamble to take on a woman who has already expressed that she no longer wants to be with you.

 

Honestly, you guys...coming from a woman who has dated men similar to you and turned away from their advances after we broke up (because they were so pitiful about it and actually made me feel SORRY for them), I have to tell you that the only way you are going to get anywhere is to let them go. Respect their wishes to be left alone, and start focusing on #1 here, you...

[livinlifetofullest]

Wow, AltPlanB, do you realize the incredible amount of power you just single handedly gave over to your ex on new years by leaving this other girl? Do you have any idea how unattractive it is to be babied and watched over when youre trying to have fun? It sounds like your ex was out having a good time, ran into you, had some drunken emotions spill out and then in her haste she made out with another fella....which only should have communicated to you that what she said to you wasnt meant to be taken in the sense that she wants you back or is even entertaining the idea of it. Actions speak louder than words my friend. She is speaking volumes to her by her actions. Leave her alone, you had a girl with you and you ditched her...man...

 

ET, she specifically told you not to contact her and yet you are thinking up all kinds of ways to completely disrespect what she asked for. Has it perhaps occured to you that the ones who think there's a sliver of hope to get back together, dont usually say things like dont ever contact me? You have to understand, she formulated her decision to leave you based off her own ideas and things she saw in you which she didnt like. You are downright disobeying her wish to be left alone by sending her ANYTHING, and to anonymously seduce her is only going to spell o-b-s-e-s-s-i-v-e to her. Laying cards out on the table is the worst thing possible to do to a woman who has left you...it eliminates all the mystery and excitement in the unknown and instead shows you are yet to move on in your life or let her go...not attractive in the least. Thats great if youre seeking out self-help for YOURSELF, however your main goal here is attaining the ex which has absolutely nothing to do with yourself, but rather, her. By making her your whole world, you lose sight of whats going on in yours -- and thats a huge gamble to take on a woman who has already expressed that she no longer wants to be with you.

 

Honestly, you guys...coming from a woman who has dated men similar to you and turned away from their advances after we broke up (because they were so pitiful about it and actually made me feel SORRY for them), I have to tell you that the only way you are going to get anywhere is to let them go. Respect their wishes to be left alone, and start focusing on #1 here, you...

 

Well said, JDub.

[sick of it]

i wish i knew that 7 months ago

[Extra Truth]

J Dub

 

She didn't say don't ever contact me--my 'friends' said that or something like but they weren't taking notes--pretty sloppy reportage for something so important, eh? That's why I won't believe it until I hear it from her own mouth looking into her eyes.

 

And the reason behind laying the cards out is because what she knows is only 1/4 of the deck, that is 1/4 of me, and it wasn't the best of me. I want to show the best of me, and if she rejects that, fine, then I can move on in peace--and we all have the right to move on in peace. It's not intended to kill excitement. It's intended to stimulate it, since full disclosure is what she always wanted, but maybe you're right. If we talk again, maybe I should go slow, but I'll have to get more control over myself for that.

 

In any case, my sense is that, if it is to be, it is going to have to be up to me, the saying goes, because if I don't subtlely, skillfully reestablish communication, then she and I really will be dead to each other. I'm willing to risk 6 to 12 months to do this project. The next 40 years are worth it. I'll know by then. I'm a gambler. I can be patient.

 

One of my shows is premiering on TV on Jan. 16. I'm thinking of sending a little card saying hi. It's small but it's a beginning.

 

I'm not quite clear how fully letting go is more attractive.

 

I agree on the seduction, probably not a good idea.

[CaliGuy]

J Dub

 

She didn't say don't ever contact me--my 'friends' said that or something like but they weren't taking notes--pretty sloppy reportage for something so important, eh? That's why I won't believe it until I hear it from her own mouth looking into her eyes.

 

If she isn't making any attempt to contact you, that's a big hint.

 

And the reason behind laying the cards out is because what she knows is only 1/4 of the deck, that is 1/4 of me, and it wasn't the best of me. I want to show the best of me, and if she rejects that, fine, then I can move on in peace--and we all have the right to move on in peace. It's not intended to kill excitement. It's intended to stimulate it, since full disclosure is what she always wanted, but maybe you're right. If we talk again, maybe I should go slow, but I'll have to get more control over myself for that.

 

She knows as much as she wants to know right now. If she wants to know more, she'll ask. If you tempt fate by trying to control how she feels I guarantee you won't like the results. Not at all.

 

In any case, my sense is that, if it is to be, it is going to have to be up to me, the saying goes, because if I don't subtlely, skillfully reestablish communication, then she and I really will be dead to each other.

 

If you choose to obsess and pine after her, again, I guarantee you won't like the results. You will only serve to push her away further. You will be dead to each other until you stop trying to control her feelings. You are NOT in control of how she feels. Let go, now. That's the only chance you have if at all.

 

Why do you people ask for advice, get sound advice and then ignore it? Why bother? J Dub has given you the correct advice but like so many here, you let your heart instead of your brain control your actions. Your heart will lie to you, your brain almost never does.

 

LISTEN TO J DUB.

 

I'm willing to risk 6 to 12 months to do this project. The next 40 years are worth it. I'll know by then. I'm a gambler. I can be patient.

 

Then prove it by giving her the space she wants and working on self-improvement, excercising, hanging out with friends, spending time with hobbies, etc. Plotting how you're going to win her back is a complete waste of your time. You have absolutely NO CONTROL over her feelings. And attempt you make to reconcile I guarantee you will be met with stern resistance.

 

If you want to push her further away, keep this attitude. If you want to prove you've changed then first TRULY change and let your utter silence do the talking.

 

One of my shows is premiering on TV on Jan. 16. I'm thinking of sending a little card saying hi. It's small but it's a beginning.

 

That would be, frankly put, very dumb of you to do so.

 

I'm not quite clear how fully letting go is more attractive.

 

Obvously. Let me explain:

Have you ever had a girl that clung on to you for dear life, wouldn't leave you alone, lacked self-confidence and bascially was a thorn in your side? It's not very sexy. In fact, it's on the biggest turn offs ever. That's you in this case. You can't let go and it's NOT attractive. Women want me they have to work for. She doesn't have to work for you. In fact, she can't get rid of you. She's trying, but you won't go away. That's downright ugly.

 

Letting go allows you to see the relationship for what it was, focus on self-improvement, meet and date other people and yes, you will find someone else. But not in your current state. You just don't give a damn about facts and you think you're in control but you're not. The only thing you can control is you, that's it. You have no power over her but she has absolute power over you.

 

Think about it. Not very sexy is it. There's no challenge. There's nothing about you right now that will make her want to come back. If you're truly silent, leave her alone and focus on fixing your issues you MAY have a slight chance.

 

Keep after her and buddy, you're in a world of hurt. Not only that but every day you spend trying to get her back is another day delaying the healing process. There are people here that are still trying to win their ex's back 2,3,5, 10+ years after they lost them. And they never found anyone else because they were always too busy focusing on the past, totally ignoring the present (reality) and the future.

 

How sad indeed.

 

I agree on the seduction, probably not a good idea.

 

So far nothing you've mentioned, at least to me, has seemed like a good idea. J Dub knows what she's talking about. If you're not going to listen to her advice (trust me, she hit the hammer on the nail) then you might as well forget about reading these boards, you're wasting our time and yours.

[J dub]

Cali Guy just said what I was trying to the whole time but couldnt seem to get it all out. Excellently put, CG

 

Let me give you one example of an instance where a man became a huge burden on my life and then he flipped the tables and suddenly had my interest.

 

Firstly, let me just say that dating inside your workplace is a stupid idea in itself, but I digress...

 

I started dating a man a few years ago I got to know at work. It started as drinks, then he confessed his feelings and from there we started "dating", however i was terrified of others at work finding out so I told him to keep it quiet (he had seniority over myself and I didnt want anyone thinking i was with him for any other reason besides his great smile). It started off great, he TOLD me he wasnt the jealous type (red flag #1 considering I never inquired int he first place) and was relatively patient with me. Then, I decided I couldnt take the guilt of dating someone at work and being all hush-hush and it was quite clear he was more serious than i about us, so I sat him down and explained that I think for the moment we should just go back to casually having drinks together and thats that. He, on the other hand, didnt seem to think the same way apparently because he wouldnt let up. I was frustrated with his lack of respecting my wishes and finally told him enough was enough and I couldnt talk to him at all unless it was specifically work related. So he made up all kinds of ridiculous excuses to talk to me (surely in his head they were clever, however women see right thru these little stunts) and finally something exploded inside of me and I told him not only was I moving depts but I never wanted to see him again because he couldnt just frickin leave me alone.

 

For MONTHS, he still sent me little letters, a teddy bear once when he had heard I had suffered a migraine, an email or a text here and there, all of it wanted to make me scream. I actually even changed my phone number because it was so annoying.

 

FINALLY I got some silence and peace, and after about six mos I started wondering about him so I waved hi once when I saw him in the hallway. BIG MISTAKE. It was like opening the flood gates or something, just that little wave, and once again the emails and crap started (nothing involving the phone although he did inquire why I no longer responded to his texts...idiot) and I'm sure you can imagine the enormous eye-roll I was doing every time his name popped up in my in-box or whatever. I grew so incredibly sick of it, so frickin annoyed that he couldnt just get a life and leave me be for a while.

 

That was quite a long time ago, and whats sad is I really did think he was great and have every intention of trying to reconcile once the situation at work was a little less tense, however his inability to relax, have some patience & faith in me and us, and to get a life that I finally threw in the towel and said, forget him. He blew it, and to this day I STILL get tidbits of info from mutual acquaintences (sp?) saying that I was the "one who got away" according to him, and how he would do absolutely anything to have me back. The problem? Its not attractive to know that he is at my every beck and call. I feel like I hold the reigns and theres no excitement or mystery to him any longer. He showed his colors and I was blinded so much I took off running, as you can tell.

 

Please, just leave her alone and let fate work its magic. If she truly loves you, she will someday make amends with you. In the meantime, its crucial you dont interfere with her life and decision or theres a huge possibility you are going to blow YOURSELF out of the water.

 

[Extra Truth]

Dear J Dub and Cali Guy

 

First, J Dub--I finally get it from your story. I'll keep that in mind along with the fulfilled second chance case histories and that should keep me in NC until hopefully those fateful conversations begin with my ex, provided I haven't screwed up too much already, where we become either friends, something else....or daresay, lovers again.

 

I like very much what you said about fate, which for me might mean hope if she somehow finds it in herself to be in love with me again. I think it speaks to the fact that again, reconcilations do happen and there are many cases of it in this world, even on this board. I guess most of those were fated, but it seems the common ingredient was not to kill any feeling the dumper might through the dumpee becoming a nuisance. I guess that is the nut. I don't agree however about all the facts. Facts appear to be the truth from only a certain point of view at a certain time. I certainly have more facts than anyone else here and still don't understand everything. I came to this board for insight on the common ingredients that can provide for reconcilation. After many postings, J Dub has provided a nut, and you too CaliGuy in your own way.

 

My questions arise from this: the plane has crashed, some are going to roll over and die and find their loves in heaven, and some are going to live on. I'm going to live on here and now, but how am I going to survive and get back to my wife and kids.

 

I do see what you mean, both of you, about being unattractive right now. I know I'm not ready to talk to her let alone reunite if she wanted as I have a lot of work to do. In fact, I'm fearful of running into her on the subway since we have ride at about the same time beginning soon. I have been very good about NC over the last 3 weeks, and admittedly was clingy at first when the shock set in that we had really broken up--sorry if I gave the impression I was harassing her. Well, I guess I did for a week or so prior to the holiday party season and I regret that greatly. My hope is that I haven't messed it up for good by my phone calls over those first couple of weeks--I don't know how I can know for sure other than her picking up the phone.

 

I don't know what to do about pining. I feel pushed into the arms of another woman, by my exes behavior and others. I am realistic enough about human sexuality to know I might sleep soon with another woman (and this would be hard since I am in love with my ex), as she already has (it has kept me up nights already), and I know deep down I have absolutely no control, so please don't think I'm not aware. I simply thought a helping hand in the communication process might be taken well by a strong, intelligent, sensitive woman which I know her to be. For all I know, she is waiting for me to make the first move, since she always did in reconcilating before. I don't think it is sad necessarily that people pine--some hearts can love only once or have such conviction they settle (for example, some spouses choose not to remarry after the death of spouse since they are certain they had their love--who are any of use to pity or judge them?).

 

On letting go, I wish I knew how in a way where I didn't give up my hope. To me letting go of hope will be saying, so long friend, you are dead to me, and I believe too much in our compatability (admittedly viewed from my side alone right now), to let go just yet. First the 6 months to a year, some conversations, and then the final decision. It may seem strange, but that is my fear--that if I let go, I will have allowed the only remaining ember of our love to die. So many great loves in history where kept alive because a single person believed.

 

Like I said, I like risking big, but the emotional balance I have to establish to live this bet still eludes me and causes me great daily pain. Maybe I don't know what letting go means. I have heard phrases such as 'letting go with love'. I don't think being open to meeting women, or finding someone else, is the key to killing this love.

 

Anyway, I do appreciate your time and thoughts, but not so much cookie cutter advice. That's why I appreciate J Dub' especially vivid story.

 

Thanks.