Excellent Book Recommendation about 2nd Chances

[Extra Truth]

Livin, I'm sure you're right about her in that moment not thinking of me.

 

Thanks for the NC Guide. It talks about leveling the playing field with sex, so I guess it's time. I'm not able to make an emotional connection but there is plenty of opportunity for casual sex in LA including sex clubs, so maybe there.

 

My exes own brother says it's really between my ex and I how we communicate, and he had to get off the line when I popped the question, whether it was worth it to say goodbye in person--if things are that bad, that I'll never get that last chance. Really, if things are so final, then I want to say goodbye to my exlover in person like I would a pet, or loved one dying. I guess I haven't gone there yet because I'm hoping NC will produce, but from her sexual behavior, what can I assume?

 

The NC Guide talks about how people get off sexually then get back together, so I guess I can't read too much into sexual activity. Also, I wonder whether our ages change things, 35 and 30. At my age anyway, I've had plenty of partners, and make the distinction between sexual intimacy and hydraulics.

 

I guess while I have hope I won't meet her, but I do like the idea of a letter telling her 'look, this is who I am, and what you're losing, get wise, or it's gone, this is all of me, reject it now if you will, but it's forever, and this breakup will be mine', or somethign to that effect. This letter would be a last invitation to think it over (what I offer). That way she has the option of responding someday while I go on (there is also less of a chance of irritation from her boundaries being crossed), and the letter also offers a chance to get everything off my chest. It would be my last best effort. I am weakened but my pride and dignity are intact. I just got to have closure on my terms I guess.

 

I think that's what I'm going to do. It may be a temporary setback for myself, or us being friends ever in the future, but I'll know that I've presented all of me for rejection. And that is the only way I would want to be rejected. I know it sounds weird, but I'm strong enough to handle that.

[livinlifetofullest]

Stop it ET! If you do write her a letter, write it... but do NOT send it! Argh, this is frustrating. I'm a woman, okay? Writing a letter will NOT help. Imagine her reading that letter? Do you think she'll be touched? ET, she's already moved on... she will not be touched by it. As I've said, most likely, she'll feel pity for you, thus increasing her disrespect for you. She will not like you more for it, I promise.

 

Anyway, she already knows what you can offer, I mean you guys dated didn't you? You don't need to write her a letter stating what you can or cannot offer. She already knows, and she still dumped you. Why? Because on what you've become --- someone who's head over heels in love with her, who's doing everything to get her back, even at the expense of his own self-respect.

 

If you want an efficient way to send a message, don't do it in a letter. SHOW HER. Your actions will be much more effective than words! As we've all been telling you over and over, and you still don't listen, disappear for a while, improve yourself, calm down your feelings and then after some time, make a comeback. But doing so now, will just increase resentment on her side.

 

I think that's what I'm going to do. It may be a temporary setback for myself, or us being friends ever in the future, but I'll know that I've presented all of me for rejection. And that is the only way I would want to be rejected. I know it sounds weird, but I'm strong enough to handle that.

 

You're suicidal but it's your choice. But I'll bet my money on it that sending her that letter will just drive her away further. AT THIS POINT IN TIME, I AM VERY SURE THAT SHE WILL REJECT YOU. But if you are patient and wait, and improve yourself, get your self-esteem back and SHOW her you can live your life with or wihtout her, that would be more effective than crawling down your feet and begging for her to get back with you (which is actually what you're doing when you send that letter).

 

Please ET, don't. Not now. Maybe later, but not now.

[CaliGuy]

Livin, I'm sure you're right about her in that moment not thinking of me.

 

Thanks for the NC Guide. It talks about leveling the playing field with sex, so I guess it's time. I'm not able to make an emotional connection but there is plenty of opportunity for casual sex in LA including sex clubs, so maybe there.

 

My exes own brother says it's really between my ex and I how we communicate, and he had to get off the line when I popped the question, whether it was worth it to say goodbye in person--if things are that bad, that I'll never get that last chance. Really, if things are so final, then I want to say goodbye to my exlover in person like I would a pet, or loved one dying. I guess I haven't gone there yet because I'm hoping NC will produce, but from her sexual behavior, what can I assume?

 

If you want to say goodbye, know that she may take that as final and if you ever contact her again it will make seem as if you don't say what you mean. That's why NC is so important. You don't have to say or do anything and yet still say so much.

 

The NC Guide talks about how people get off sexually then get back together, so I guess I can't read too much into sexual activity. Also, I wonder whether our ages change things, 35 and 30. At my age anyway, I've had plenty of partners, and make the distinction between sexual intimacy and hydraulics.

 

Huh? The NC guide is about how to heal yourself, it has very little to do with the ex. It's about working on rebuilding your self-esteem, confident and respect.

 

You mention sex quite often in this post, it makes me wonder where your head is at right now. What's your priority? Getting into her pants, who else is in her pants, etc?

 

It should be able working yourself. You can do nothing to change or effec her.

 

I guess while I have hope I won't meet her, but I do like the idea of a letter telling her 'look, this is who I am, and what you're losing, get wise, or it's gone, this is all of me, reject it now if you will, but it's forever, and this breakup will be mine', or somethign to that effect. This letter would be a last invitation to think it over (what I offer). That way she has the option of responding someday while I go on (there is also less of a chance of irritation from her boundaries being crossed), and the letter also offers a chance to get everything off my chest. It would be my last best effort. I am weakened but my pride and dignity are intact. I just got to have closure on my terms I guess.

 

Do it if you must. If you have any hope of getting back with her then do not. When a man says "This is final" a woman will ususally take you at your word. If you somehow want a chance later down the road then follow the NC guide to a T. Excercise, hang out with friends, invest time in hobbies and work on you confidence and self-esteem. Do not make any attempt to contact her or you'll go back to square one.

 

I think that's what I'm going to do. It may be a temporary setback for myself, or us being friends ever in the future, but I'll know that I've presented all of me for rejection. And that is the only way I would want to be rejected. I know it sounds weird, but I'm strong enough to handle that.

 

I think you want to send the letter perhaps for the ulterior motive of getting her to talk to you, eliciting some kind of response. If I was a betting man, I would bet the farm she will not respond.

 

I don't think sending the letter will do any good but if it makes you feel better, go ahead.

[suunto]

[quote name=J

Honestly, you guys...coming from a woman who has dated men similar to you and turned away from their advances after we broke up (because they were so pitiful about it and actually made me feel SORRY for them), I have to tell you that the only way you are going to get anywhere is to let them go. Respect their wishes to be left alone, and start focusing on #1 here, you...[/quote]

 

i agree, i think we (men) get it wrong because we don't want to treat women badly so become a wuss.

i was seeing someone and after a month she started being unreasonable but i put up with it because i didnt' want to argue or fight about stuff but this just made me a walk over in her mind and she done it more,its took me a while to realise that by being yourself and not putting up with a woman when shes a pain in the ass they respect you more, you don't have to be abbusive or nasty but put it straight and if they don't like it, walk away, its hard at times but walk away

look at the quote, thats from a woman who is telling us men that being anything other than a man just gets pity

[CaliGuy]

Women love strong, confident, happy men.

Women despise weak, clingy, unhappy men.

 

Men need to know when to hold them and when to fold them when it comes to woman, but nothing says "pitiful" more than a desperate man trying to cling on to his ex. It only serves to push them away further.

[Extra Truth]

Hi Caliguy

 

I hear you loud and clear. Gotta get strong, gotta get strong. Despite so much, I still love that woman, even though her recent behavior as a broken up woman having sex makes me question the magnificent character she exhibited when we dated those nearly 4 years.

 

Usually I'm quite a catch, but I'm not quite myself now am I. Gotta work on that for myself, and who knows, in case the door cracks open in the future...I guess I have to have faith that I'm quality, and that there is major compatibility between us, and that she'll recognize all this, plus my dazzling enhanced self, and forget my prior relationship mismanagement. I can see a lot hurt being dealt with over her sleeping around right now and the way she's handling it. That's a big worry since right now, I wonder who the hell she is, and how that jives with the consistent personality and character I knew for so long. That's where my urgency to communicate comes from-to resolve this doubt, to make sure I'm not in love with an illusion, but I guess I'll have to confirm that slowly when we begin talking again, whenever that happens. I'm around her family a bit so it will probably happen somehow.

 

I mention sex so often, because it was a factor in her mind about our compatibility, her being very frank, bisexual and experimental, and me very sexual but not admitting it--so this is the idea of me left in her mind upon departure. For her sex can be hydraulics or spiritual stuff or just kinky fun. Maybe NC will allow those memories of me to fade away along with my mistakes so that she'll remember the good stuff, and how difficult it is to find a pair like us. I don't know if it will but I hope there was enough good stuff there, and I look forward to confirming that I judged her correctly about who she is. But right now she has an impression based on the wrong facts and my arms are tied in changing that!

 

You mention CaliGuy that they almost always, eventually, call with NC. I guess I'll just get busy in the meantime. But, man oh man, this is HARD! From marraige material just 3 months ago, to nothing! It's so hard to imagine how I can mean nothing to her after all we've been through. And she made her decision all without ever truly trying to reconcile one last time, after splitting--it was just fait accompli. It's like a traumatic fatality. Anyway, I'm blabbing.

 

CaliGuy, Livin, I will not send that letter. I'm going work on getting stronger. I love her despite myself unconditionally and despite her actions--I don't know what's wrong with me there--I just believe in the person I knew even if know I don't understand the person she acting like. Her brother and I are meeting to see a movie this weekend. He's rooting for us, but doesn't know her feelings. I love her family and they love me, but I'm avoiding all of them except the brother who was my friend from before. He feels awkward. I'm trying to stay away from that topic, but it's hard.

 

I know I write long posts. I just want to thank everyone for taking the time to read them and respond. It's a gift and I want to acknowledge that. Thank you.

[CaliGuy]

You're on the right track. Be sure not to confuse confidence with cockyness. I see you have some of the right mindset going but you have to temper your confidence with some sense of humbleness as well. When you're a confident person, you don't have to show anyone. It will exude from you naturally without having to really try.

 

Above all man, be yourself. That way there's no fooling, no hiding no trickery. If a woman likes you for who you are you don't have to act like anyone or anything else. Just be who you are and the RIGHT woman will flock to you.

 

Sex is fun. It's important, but early on into the relationship it can cloud and confuse your judgement. Trust me, it does and I can sense that in you.

 

This woman is troubled and confused. Not exactly a good foundation for a lasting, meaningful relationship. The fact she flaunts her sexual escapades to her friends also shows me she is immature.

 

Remember the negative qualities she has. Remember that right now you don't even know who she is. The focus should be on you, healing yourself, re-aquainting yourself with friends, surrounding yourself with men, real men who will help you get back into line and build up your confidence.

 

Laugh if you will but this always helps me maintain the right frame of mind.

 

"How would Brad Pitt act in this situation?" I don't think you'd ever see him throwing himself at a woman. He's one of the most confident guys I can think of. He's always cool, laid back, never needs to flaunt his stuff, talks with confidence, smiles a lot and I don't even think he's a great looking guy. I think he carries that persona about him though and when I think I am faltering I just say "WWBPD?"

 

Silly, I know, but it works for me.

[Extra Truth]

Too funny about Brad Pitt, and it's great tool LOL Wonder if he'd take it as a compliment being called a tool, but anyway...

 

I know she is full of fear and angry, and having 5 years on her does help me to recognize how immature she was to go talking with a stranger about her escapades (she was drunk, and we were both tense--our first run in socially with mutual friends, but she should have done better). I do keep in mind her qualities which is the majority of her, as I knew her in the relationship.

 

Yeah, I'm going to go out. I hope that she is who I think she is, and that we have a chance to talk in the future so I can know for sure, and so she can know me totally too, then maye we'll rethink things and have that second chance, provided a lot of these breakup issues are dealt with. In the meantime, there is nowhere else to turn but getting to work on myself and having fun. I do love her, despite her immaturity--I wasn't always mature myself. In fact this breakup has been a fertilizing accelerant if anything in that area.

 

On balance, and that's we all have to do right in judging imperfect people, right, her good outweighs her ridiculousness right now.

 

if we have a chance to talk in the future, and I'm right about my judgement of her and there is still a lot of that in her, and she is interested, then maybe we'll try another round (guess I'll keep my faith in the possibility of a chance since she was actually a damn cool and good person 99% of the time). Hopefully I'm not seeing her true self emerge as a skank, but I would be really surprised at that.

 

So, I will have faith I've judged her correctly, that she gets wise, and in the meantime, I've got to get a grip on myself.

 

Thanks man! I think Brad Pitt would get busy now with some work J in LA

[Extra Truth]

Temper your confidence with some sense of humbleness as well. When you're a confident person, you don't have to show anyone. It will exude from you naturally without having to really try.

 

This woman is troubled and confused. Not exactly a good foundation for a lasting, meaningful relationship. The fact she flaunts her sexual escapades to her friends also shows me she is immature.

 

This whole break up has brought out humility that I'm really trying to hold on to. Kind of tough in a city of illusions, but it's a character trait that feels right for me. I'm probably just overcompensating in my writing right now.

 

There is no way I can think of a relationship right now. Even sex, as fun as it is, would be a stretch unless it is purely carnal, and I'm not even there yet, but who knows...

 

I am intrigued by one thing though. Could you elaborate on what you sense to be her 'troubled and confused" condition based on my posting and your reading. I definitely get the immaturity--she was drunk, and it was stupid behavior whether aided or not.

 

Thanks...

[CaliGuy]

This whole break up has brought out humility that I'm really trying to hold on to. Kind of tough in a city of illusions, but it's a character trait that feels right for me. I'm probably just overcompensating in my writing right now.

 

There is no way I can think of a relationship right now. Even sex, as fun as it is, would be a stretch unless it is purely carnal, and I'm not even there yet, but who knows...

 

I am intrigued by one thing though. Could you elaborate on what you sense to be her 'troubled and confused" condition based on my posting and your reading. I definitely get the immaturity--she was drunk, and it was stupid behavior whether aided or not.

 

Thanks...

 

The joys of owning my own business means when I have downtime, as I do with the holidays recently, I get lots of quality POSTIN' time

 

She's a lot like my ex. Immature, doesn't know what she wants, even within her own sexuality. It's not any one thing she does, it's how she is behaving. Someone without issues wouldn't be bragging about their sexual conquest to her friends. She knew it would get back to and you irk you. Mission accomplished. Even if she didn't really do it, the fact she premeditated telling her friends, that's just 'junior high' behavior.

 

It's one of those caveats for you to keep and remind yourself of every time you miss her. Think of her indifferent and childish behavior. Ask yourself "Don't I deserve better?"

 

Sure you do. We all do. Frankly, I don't care if your ex is a hottie or not. If she acted like that with me I'd be kicking her arse to the curb so fast she'd think she got hit by a bus.

 

Focus on yourself, go out, have fun, hang with MEN and never forget: WWBPD?!!?!

 

muaha. Enjoy life, it has so much to offer when you don't sweat the minor bumps in the road. And really, that's all this is right now. So many fish in the sea and you're wasting your time on the little ones when the big fish are still out there to be caught.

[Extra Truth]

Sure you do. We all do. Frankly, I don't care if your ex is a hottie or not. If she acted like that with me I'd be kicking her arse to the curb so fast she'd think she got hit by a bus.

 

Focus on yourself, go out, have fun, hang with MEN and never forget: WWBPD?!!?!

 

muaha. Enjoy life, it has so much to offer when you don't sweat the minor bumps in the road. And really, that's all this is right now. So many fish in the sea and you're wasting your time on the little ones when the big fish are still out there to be caught.

 

I agree on the immaturity, with her anger anyways--I think that was what was going on, she was pissed that I negotiated that we wouldn't bring dates per the hosts requests and she saw it as manipulation. I think dropping a note like that was a tactic to push me away as far as possible with some really nasty behavior, but I'm just speculating. In either case, not appreciate at all, and I would like to tell her that very much. Fortunately, that sort of behavior represent only 5% of her normal behavior which is why I'm holding out talking to her to confirm my hunch that she was just lashing out.

 

She says she knows what she wants, which I wasn't at the time, but have am now that I 'grew up' from bachelorhood to 'married man' after the split. She wanted an honest man with himself and her, who stood by his woman and put her before other women, who would be there to nurture her as she nurtured, etc. Really, this all the stuff that should be in a good relationship, so she wasn't being unreasonable, and she says she left to go find it since she didn't believe she could have that with me, plus the damage from mismanagement. So maybe you see how this immaturity doesn't quite jive with a woman who was just saying, be a man for God's sake, own your faults, respect me and yourself, get it together, and let's take on the world together--that was her message. That's why I think alchohol might have been the issue. She has drunk heavily before when stressed and we were both stressed that night. Not making excuses, but just reviewing what seems to have happened. Again, no way to confirm during NC. Dont' know how I would confirm after NC either since this issue is sure to raise hackles. Maybe once we're talking comfortably again.

 

Anyway, I know there are a lot of women out there, and I'll hang out, and maybe taste a few for fun, but I really won't be very interested until this question about her character is revealed, and until we talk and close things for us both, not just her, if that is what is meant to be.

 

Thanks again for comments, and any you might have about this post. Hope you realize the balance I'm taking in my form of NC--I am working on myself, plan to go out, but I am hoping NC will be broken by her so that beig question about her character can be resolved. It will be easy to let go forever once I know the truth of that. And the upside, if it's just anger, that can be dealt with.

[J dub]

>that sort of behavior represent only 5% of her normal behavior which is why I'm holding out talking to her to confirm my hunch that she was just lashing out.

 

Example #1 of sticking up for your ex (reminder: she left you)

 

> but have am now that I 'grew up' from bachelorhood to 'married man' after the split.

 

Um...what? Youre saying youve grown up in the time youve been apart? So anotherwords, theoretically speaking if you & her reconcile and then she decides again shes unhappy with whatever about you, all she has to do is leave you for you to change your entire being and lifestyle. Easy, wow.

 

>She has drunk heavily before when stressed and we were both stressed that night.

 

Example #2 of sticking up for your ex (she LEFT YOU FOR THE SHARKS!)

 

> Again, no way to confirm during NC.

 

Right, and even if you asked her you still cou ldnt be entirely sure seeing as you dont even take her seriously when she is speaking about other stuff.

 

>Dont' know how I would confirm after NC either since this issue is sure to raise hackles.

 

I'm sorry...AFTER NC?

 

>Maybe once we're talking comfortably again.

 

Clearly you took nothing from what I've suggested earlier: your words remind me exactly of my ex (the one who drove me away). Everything I said he didnt take seriously, he challenged it by not respecting my wishes therefore invalidating my thoughts. THAT is very unnerving.

 

>Anyway, I know there are a lot of women out there, and I'll hang out, and maybe taste a few for fun, but I really won't be very interested until this question about her character is revealed, and until we talk and close things for us both, not just her, if that is what is meant to be.

 

Its completely blowing my mind that you will sit around and wait for this woman despite the fact that you have no signs whatsoever of possible reconciliation, she told you she didnt want to be with you AND when you asked her brother his opinion on whether or not to hold out, he had to suddenly get off the phone. Dont you see? You need to move on, this train has left the station. You are waiting and wasting your life away. Oh, and back to the thing about her brother, what in gods name are you doing talking to him about her? Do you have any idea how disrespectful/desperate/selfish that can come across as? WOW.

 

>I am hoping NC will be broken by her so that beig question about her character can be resolved. It will be easy to let go forever once I know the truth of that. And the upside, if it's just anger, that can be dealt with.

 

You need to...let me reiterate...YOU NEED TO believe this woman in what she has said to you. Questing whether or not she meant what she said is pointless, you could be seeking the answer for the rest of your life and STILL get nothing. This is not the way to love someone.

[Extra Truth]

Hi J Dub

 

You do know I'm sorting this thing out right?

 

I didn't contact her and don't plan too. But I think it's legitimate to survey her overall personality and 3.5 years of experience in how she acts to try to make sense of what she is doing now in the last 3 months.

 

I don't question that she means it. What I question is how feelings change in time, say over NC as is suggested on this board often. She asked for boundaries, and respect that. I have honored those so far, and intend to keep doing so to show her that respect. I'm not exactly waiting around. I'm working on myself. Didn't many cases of reconcilation here begin with zero hope for reunion?

 

And, yes, I gradually moved out of bachelorhood to the idea of being married kicking and screaming which she didn't like--it took me until after the breakup to realize that commitment isn't a trap, it's actually freedom to experiment and live fully with a mate you adore and respect for life. I just got there 5 months too late, and the shock of the breakup was all I needed to do the final soul searching and say, I don't want to be a 40 year old bachelor. I want a family and children. Yes, it's that easy. It's an epiphany and coming to terms with what I want. No I don't change on a whim, or if we reconciled I wouldn't change to appease her again. I'm not doing it now to appease her--all of her critiques were dead on and necessary. Everyone thinks I'm pandering and I'm not. I'm doing what any healthy male should do in becoming a healthy man, and that simply put, is all she wanted. See, she isn't such a bitch normally.

 

So, I am all I am, fully exposed. You have to understand that I hid myself pretty tightly under an emotional coat of armor that she was tenderly trying to get me to remove. I didn't trust her in time until we split, I read the Little Prince, and her motivations and character were revealed to me. She said afterwards, in a tender moment, saying 'you read the book, yes...you finally get it? you finally get me?". I did, and I've been crying everyday for the last 3 months. I know, I know, I'm weak and need a spine, but the regret is awful here. If only I had read that book at the beginning when she asked I would have understood her, and we would have made it. Now how does a woman capable of that jive with her recent behavior?

 

To me that's what is so tragic. 5 months bad timing, her stubbornness (in not allowing that second chance, it is a choice after all, made with 1/4 information), and my early clingliness post-breakup are not helping any reconciliation. Now, I know the train has left the station. You know, there aren't many well educated Latinos out there who understand the heritage, who have our very similar backgrounds, etc. These are cultural and heritage values we both value, but anyway...

 

It unnerves me too that I come off as the guy you spoke of. Like I said, I'm not making any attempts to contact her. It's been almost a month. I know I'm being defensive, but on one hand you guys give me hope, play cool, get yourself together, wait (she'll call) out of curiousity; and a note later, it's move on, move on, move on, based on a scrap of too of recent behavior versus her overall behavior. I can only accept one. Right now I'm so weak I blow in the wind. I'm sure that's why I'm looking for something to hold on to. I don't know how you kill love. Just thinking of the negative things for me doesn't do it, because on balance, they were fewer than the positive. So how do you do it. Think of her having sex with other men? That hurts, but we're broken up, right, and I can have casual sex too? Her getting drunk and stupid at a party--happens to Congressmen and heads of state (Yeltsin was famous for it). I'm don't want to apologize, but I believe there was a good person there. Does this one bad experience mean she has devolved into a ......

 

I'm just asking for thoughts...thanks...and sorry for once again, a long post....

 

PS the brother had to get off the phone because some machinery jammed at work--had to work 2 extra hours unpaid because he was paying attention to me--he is actually rooting for us and regrets a love he let get away years ago....he says he really doesn't know what she thinks...no one in the family does either...I've known him 5 years longer than my ex, and he's offered advice...it's like having a white elephant in the room sometimes when we hang out and avoid the subject.

[livinlifetofullest]

If you want NC to be easier, don't fish for information. It will just give you false hope and depress you. Any news aside from, "She wants to get back with you, man" WILL depress you and it's not worth it. Why analyze her? It's over between you and her. The only person you can change is yourself.

 

Her feelings were going down before you've broken up. It slides down gradually, till it's current level right now. Feelings just change. Sorry, it's as simple as that. Don't ask "Why?" or "How?" It just happens. And once feelings change (e.g., she doesn't care for you that much), behaviors change (e.g., she feels fine sleeping with other men). She's still a good person, just that she doesn't care for you that much anymore. That's why, she doesn't care whether her actions indirectly hurt you or not. Sorry.

 

One month is nothing. And yes, you're being defensive. Our advice is consistent. Basically, initiate NC and heal yourself. Move on as if there's no hope and stop thinking about her, and what she feels or act. Just move on and start respecting yourself for goodness sakes! You're acting like a wuss right now (e.g., "I'm so weak I blow in the wind. That's why I'm looking for something to hold onto."). SNAP OUT OF IT! It's totally unattractive!

 

Anyway, after you've calmed yourself down, this is where JDub/Caliguy and I disagree. For them, continue NC and flush her out of your system. For me, a believer of Love Tactics, I'm okay with playing cool and restarting contact (ONLY AFTER YOU'VE HEALED AND GET YOUR SELF-RESPECT BACK!). Then, if it happens, it happens. If not, you've moved on anyway, so it doesn't really matter if she's in your life or not. Now, this is what you call INDEPENDENCE and it's very attractive.

 

Don't bother her brother anymore! Geez! Regardless on whether he's on your side or not, still won't change the fact that u and his sis are still broken up. It's his sis that you have issues with, not him. Talking to him won't get his sister back to your arms.

[CaliGuy]

Anyway, after you've calmed yourself down, this is where JDub/Caliguy and I disagree. For them, continue NC and flush her out of your system. For me, a believer of Love Tactics, I'm okay with playing cool and restarting contact (ONLY AFTER YOU'VE HEALED AND GET YOUR SELF-RESPECT BACK!). Then, if it happens, it happens. If not, you've moved on anyway, so it doesn't really matter if she's in your life or not. Now, this is what you call INDEPENDENCE and it's very attractive.

 

If he initiates contact after he's 'healed' then it's still him initiating the contact. She needs to be the one to initiate contact, pure and simple, that's why it's said "act like she's never coming back." Because once he has gotten over her chances are he'll meet someone else and not want her back.

 

I understand what you're saying but any attempt he makes to contact her, healed or not, will more than likely push her away. She has to reach out, make contact, etc.

 

The main part I agree is "anything other than she wants to get back with you", contact should be avoided at all cost. Right now she sees him as a weak, clingy, needy guy and even when healed she will not believe him if he's initiating contact.

 

Again, if it's not from her, from her heart and genuine (if he has to push her) it won't work. Has to be all her idea or no dice.

[Extra Truth]

Hi Livin

 

Thanks. I know I need to get stronger. I'm a bit of an dramatist so the language can get florid. I meant that I unconditionally love her still--I've thought of the bad and good, and the present, and still on balance she's worth having (at least as I knew her and if she cared for me which I know she does not presently--we're done, I know, I know, wow, that still kills me). So I have this limbo situation where I need to heal and am in love with her and therefore very desirous (ie, hopeful) and I can't kill that love no matter how I try. I usually make my own decisions on everything, but on this issue of love, second chances, repairing, relationships, etc., well, this is my achilles heel (developed very late vs. her she with 3 prior long-term relationships) on the issue that really matters most for me in life. So my compass is off, and my normal strength and emotional independence are too, and I don't have a belief system to help me maintain the intestinal fortitude (Love Tactics does warn about this) to get through this period until Love Tactics can be applied. By the way, with my hands tied by her demands for NC, how is that gonna happen, since you're a supporter--this is really the crux--it appears I go on and wait for the call, or once I'm healed make a call? I'm still reading the book. How do I go on sanely until I have that chance and how will it happen--assuming of course I am working on myself.

 

The brother is trying to be a good friend, but lately, he sees the pain I'm in and is just trying to help. I won't fish either. I can't accept that she is dead to me. I really thought we had something special and still do, if only she gives that one chance she didn't to the diamond in the rough she fell in love with that finally polished up at the end. A lot of polishing to do yet, so that'll keep me busy a while.

[Extra Truth]

Hi CaliGuy

 

I understand what you mean about the appearance of neediness if I break NC no matter the conditions, but if I'm 'healed' and in control, then very limited contact per Love Tactics would be the jumpstart for some reflection on her about the rest that has be solely from her. All the while, I'm working on myself and living.

 

Not so sure about finding another so easily. This is Hollywood, the capital of plastic personalities and not a place where you find many real people. I've been here 7 years and this is the first one, and I dated a lot.

[CaliGuy]

Hi CaliGuy

 

I understand what you mean about the appearance of neediness if I break NC no matter the conditions, but if I'm 'healed' and in control, then very limited contact per Love Tactics would be the jumpstart for some reflection on her about the rest that has be solely from her. All the while, I'm working on myself and living.

 

Not so sure about finding another so easily. This is Hollywood, the capital of plastic personalities and not a place where you find many real people. I've been here 7 years and this is the first one, and I dated a lot.

 

That is why I live South of LA

[livinlifetofullest]

Follow CaliGuy's advice --- Don't contact her. Let her contact you. Accept contact only after you've healed and got your self-respect back. Otherwise, tune her out, or end up in Step 1 again.

 

You can't kill that love now, but you can tune it out. Repeat after me, "We broke up. It's over." Do this every time daily, and over time and with NC, you'll accept it. Why? Because it's FACT. You loving her will not help right now. And goodness if you keep your life on hold waiting for something that may or may not come. Get yourself out of this limbo situation. Do you want to be miserable for the rest of your life?

 

Try forgetting about her, as if she's dead to you. Don't think of the past, or her as your girl. That won't help. It's over, do whatever you can to flush her out of your system. At this point, there's no hope. It's over. You may feel that you had something special, but she still dumped you. Accept it. She obviously didn't think you were that special... so do you think you deserve that?

 

If you wish for a second chance, heal yourself first. Live your life, and quit thinking of her all the time. Trust me, it gets better. Only when you're healed and not thinking about her any longer, can you initiate love tactics. I don't think you're strong enough to do LT now.

[Extra Truth]

Isn't wishing hoping? No playing semantics just trying to get a grip on something that works, and death won't be it I"m afraid.

 

I lost my father while travelling at 12. I never said goodbye and we never had a loving closure. Intellectually and emotionally since then I've been diposed to doing/saying that if death were to come and I knew it, I would always say goodbye, hence my old analogy of putting a loved pet down, or saying goodbye to a terminally ill friend. This is probably part of my struggel with NC, because letting go is part of saying goobye friend, you're dead to me so I can heal, which obviously is very final and leaves no room for LT or anything else.

 

That's a very deep issue that will take a very long time in counseling and won't help me now.

 

I could probably close the door on all this by saying goodbye to her personally forever, but that would be the fork, and I do wish for another chance. I just gotta keep my sanity so I can get strong enough for LT. God, I've never been this way before!

 

Any ideas? thanks

[livinlifetofullest]

In your case, yes, think as if your ex doesn't exist. That would help you heal faster. And actually, a wise friend once said, "You have to put the first relationship to sleep and just let go before you can start a new one." If you continue a relationship with your now-ex, the issues that plague you then will still plague you and you'll still break up. But after you're healed and treat her as if she doesn't really exist, you'll discover you see her in a very new light. You may or may not like what you see, and you can see if you still want her then. But you have to start a new relationship, not revive the old one.

 

The old is dead and gone. If you want a new one, with her or with anyone else, put the past to sleep and move on. Don't worry about the future. Worry about the NOW. MAKE IT FINAL.

 

LT will find a way, if in the time you heal, u decide you still want her. But by then, maybe you'll see her for whom she really is, and not want her anymore.

[helena abadi]

Moai, I like some of your comments. Specifically, paying attention to someone's actions, rather than their words. Actions speak louder. We should pay attention to what is not being said.

 

I'm not sure about the love tactics thing, I read some of the tactics on the website. It sounded manipulative to me.

 

Yes, yes, I know it's all about raising your own self-esteem and independence and not acting desperate to get them back. But some of it sounded like low-grade stalking.

 

And how on earth can you get over feelings of jealousy when your ex is with someone else?

 

I dumped my ex, and I want him back. Really want him back.

[CaliGuy]

I'm not sure about the love tactics thing, I read some of the tactics on the website. It sounded manipulative to me.

 

That's because basically, it is. If you can't be who you really are in a relationship you'll eventually be exposed as a fraud and the relationship will fail, again.

 

Yes, yes, I know it's all about raising your own self-esteem and independence and not acting desperate to get them back. But some of it sounded like low-grade stalking.

 

It is

 

And how on earth can you get over feelings of jealousy when your ex is with someone else?

 

There's nothing you can do to stop them, so why even bother thinking about it? You too are someone's ex and I am sure someone in your past relationships feels the same way about you as you do about your current ex. You just have to accept they've moved on and RESPECT YOURSELF enough to say "I deserve better." Accepting reality, letting go, moving on and sticking to NC is not only the easiest way to start feeling better, it's the fastest and most effective way.

 

Nothing changes until you first accept and then LET GO.

 

I dumped my ex, and I want him back. Really want him back.

 

We all do but the reality is simply they are not with us now and nothing we can do can change that. Our ex's won't want us back if we continue to pine after them but that's not even the worst part. Nobody will want us in our current states. We really have to completely let go and accept the situation for what it is. No more contacting, wondering, crying, et al.

 

Pick yourself up by the bootstraps, decide that you're tired of being miserable over someone who frankly doesn't really care about your feelings right now and move on with your life.

 

If you don't, you'll delay your own healing process and probably miss out on someone better who will most definitely come along.

[grace2005]

withdrew post

[grace2005]

Moai, I like some of your comments. Specifically, paying attention to someone's actions, rather than their words. Actions speak louder. We should pay attention to what is not being said.

 

I'm not sure about the love tactics thing, I read some of the tactics on the website. It sounded manipulative to me.

 

Yes, yes, I know it's all about raising your own self-esteem and independence and not acting desperate to get them back. But some of it sounded like low-grade stalking.

 

And how on earth can you get over feelings of jealousy when your ex is with someone else?

 

I dumped my ex, and I want him back. Really want him back.

 

 

If you did the dumping and you want him back then you have to be the one to call him and beg him to take you back. The ball is in your court since you dumped him.