Cheating. How would you handle this situation?

[Romans_2]

I'm making this rather long so that I can include all the important information. I want advice, or thoughts, but Iwant it to be informed commenting. I do apologize for the length though.

This story begins 48 years ago. I was 17. I had been dating a girl whom I will call "Barb" (all names are changed in this post) who was also 17. As time went on, we fell in love. Though we never had sex, there had been some serious makeout sessions through the year between 17-18. And our relationship wasn't just about potential sex in the future, but we just strongly liked each other as well and loving each other. Barb was still dating other guys, and at one point I asked her to be mine alone, but she told me "I really want to, but my dad will not let me date just one guy." Although I loved her strongly, I felt like what was good for her was good for me as well. So I dated a few other girls, but none of them were like Barb. Somewhere on one of our dates, Barb told me in a conversation that her dad had told her she couldn't get married until she was 21. I was happy to wait because I felt like getting married at 17 was too young, and I even made up a tee shirt that said "I'm waiting for 1250 more days" or something like that. I knew at some point it would get close enough to that time that I would ask her to marry me.

Little did I know what was happening in the background. I found out decades later that in Barb's large family (she had 9 siblings) nearly all of the five daughters had been molested by their father. She was kid number 9 and her brother, Bryan had been kicked out of the house. She hadn't yet been molested by her father, but knew, if she was left alone with him, that lucky streak would end. Her mom had died of cancer a few months prior.

Another guy she was dating, Kelly, who had come from a family of abusers, knew the signs. Being opportunistic, he proposed. She accepted because she liked him, but also because he was her ticket out of the house of abuse--or so she thought. I found out through the grapevine about the upcoming marriage before Barb had a chance to tell me herself. When she finally came to talk to me, it was in the break room of a place where we had both taken jobs that summer. "I wanted to be the one to let you know," she said. "I'm so sorry."
I was devastated and could say nothing.

"I love you," she said.

Still saying nothing, I shook my head and walked away, though I should've said what I was thinking, if you love me, why are you marrying him?

In addition to being devastated, I was confused.

I did not date anyone for a couple of years after that. I was bitter. Then one day, I met a girl--again at a job where we both worked. I'll call her Angie. We dated a couple of times and I fell for her. Our first date was in May, and then in June we got engaged. Our marriage date was near the end of that same year. I think it was way too fast, looking back. We were both Mormon then and were to be married in the Mormon temple. I arrived first that morning, but I had been thinking that maybe I was doing the wrong thing. Still though, I knew that if I backed out at that point, she would be devastated. I had already had my heart destroyed once and I just could not bring myself to destroy Angie's heart like mine had been by Barb.

We were married. We made it work, though there were ups and downs. Somewhere in the middle of that time, something triggered a memory Angie had of when she was a kid, age 6-12. During that time period, she had been sexually abused time and again by an older brother. This affected our own sexual relationship, but she got some counseling and got control over it. I had never forgotten my first love though and I had plans that if I lived longer than Angie, I would try to once again find Barb in our old age, and that maybe we could get together.

I found out later that the marriage Barb had gotten into had gone south. Her husband Kelly turned out to be an abuser. He had broken her ribs, jaw, and beaten her many times during their marriage. Then one day when their daughter was a teenager, Kelly threatened the daughter. That was the last straw for Barb. She took her daughter and fled, divorcing Kelly. Not long after that, she came to my home state and tried looking me up, but after seeing my name along with Angie's and the same last name in the phone book, Barb thought better of it and never stopped by to knock on my door.

As time went on though, Angie got sick with an auto-immune disorder. I became her caregiver. This began somewhere around 2007 with a severe case of pneumonia that kept her in the ICU for 8 days. I was fine being a caregiver for several years, but then around 2013, we finally had to move into a house that was easier for Angie to move around in. And right after we moved in, our daughter Cheryl, along with her husband and kids moved in with us as they were financially unstable. They lived in our basement.

In the next few months, Angie and I, along with the rest of the family noticed huge changes in Cheryl. Her behavior began changing rapidly and drastically, and Angie's disposition became increasingly negative. I knew something was wrong with Cheryl almost right away, but Angie seemed to think that Cheryl was just being inconsiderate. Angie's negative behavior became so extreme--slamming her cane down on the bathroom tile over and over, until cracks appeared in the tile--screaming "I hate you!" at Cheryl. This kind of stuff became a constant in our house--Angie's yelling and screaming and rage toward Cheryl. I was becoming extremely depressed and knew that I needed to get out of the situation. I was either going to end my life, end the marriage, or have to see some kind of counselor. I began wondering how I had ended up in this situation--this marriage and that brought my thoughts back to Barb and wondering why that love had gone away way back then. I felt that I needed to contact her if possible and find out what had happened. I was able to track her down. She lived a few states away from me.

Barb was on her third marriage. Apparently after her divorce from Kelly, she had rebounded too quickly and married a guy who ended up divorcing her after about a year because she wasn't enough like his first wife who had died. Barb's third husband, Jack, was a good man though. They met when he stopped to help her alongside the road when she had a flat tire. Though Jack had many good points, he didn't like touching or sex all that much, which was something that ended up being unfulfilling for Barb as she was the opposite--she wanted to be touched and she loved sex.

She and I began talking. A lot. One of the first things she did was tell me Mormonism was a false religion. I listened to her unlike anyone else who had ever tried to show me that before, simply because I had always loved her since our teen days. I studied what she had told me and then I approached Angie and said that I was leaving the Mormon church. I also told her that I had called Barb and talked to her and that she and Jack wanted to get together with us if they ever came and visited our area, which they did every so often because Barb had family in our city. But Angie was not receptive to meeting them. She knew I had loved Barb when I was younger and I guess felt threatened. Unfortunately for her, it was her very thoughts of being threatened and unwilling to meet them as a couple that kept me secretly talking to Barb rather than openly meeting the two of them and maybe establishing a friendship as a couple.

Adding to it was the immense amount of belittling I got from Angie when I left Mormonism. I was being emotionally abused and actually hated for it. I'm absolutely certain Angie would have divorced me just for leaving the Mormon church if she hadn't been dependent on me as her caregiver. Because of that, I was drawn to Barb even more and my relationship was begining to be set in stone.

That was ten years ago. Since that time, Barb and I have kept communicating and become emotionally involved with each other. It was during this time that I found out about why she had married Kelly--because it was her chance to get out of the house where she would be living alone with her molesting father. It was also then that I found out that she had considered contacting me after her first marriage, but stopped when she found Angie and I linked together in the phone book.
We still talk several times a week and I consider her my best friend. Ironic because had Angie been willing to meet them, I'm thinking a lot of this secret stuff would not have ocurred. And it also led to some meetings between Barb and I alone. And there have been some incidences of kissing, fondling, and even oral sex a couple of times in the past ten years. Our youthful love has been rekindled, but neither one of us wants to divorce our spouses. That leaves us ultimately as waiting to outlive them, which is a really odd feeling and something that along with our involvement, should be shameful. And it has led to stress in both of us because we continually are acting in secret. I personally have a huge guilt complex over it and I think Barb does too, yet neither one of us want to stop it after reconnecting after all those years in between. I am more guilty because it was I who in my state of despair having to do with Angie's negativity, rather than taking my own life or filing for divorce, chose to reach out and try to figure out how things had gotten to the point they got to back when I was 17. And that's where we are. Thoughts and advice are welcome.

[S2B]

You are cheating. Divorce your wife if you ever intend to communicate with Barb again.

you have not been a good husband for ten years. Do things in order - divorce now. Then if needed - let Barb know you are available. 
 

you seem to type more about Barb than your own wife. This should be in the infidelity section.

Edited August 7 by S2B

[Gebidozo]

You’re cheating on your wife. Barb is cheating on her husband. This has to stop.

If you really love Barb, divorce your wife. If Barb loves you, she’ll divorce her husband.

There is no other way.

[Romans_2]

3 minutes ago, S2B said:

It still belongs in the infidelity section because you’ve been cheating.

divorce your wife…that way she doesn’t have a husband who cheats on her.

The reason I am not doing that is because she has no other caregiver. That would make me even worse.

[Romans_2]

20 minutes ago, S2B said:

OM/OW is also the wrong area.

it belongs in the infidelity section - because you are cheating.

I know I'm cheating. I just don't know how to find the right section.

 

[Romans_2]

I finally found the right section.
 

I'm making this rather long so that I can include all the important information. I want advice, or thoughts, but Iwant it to be informed commenting. I do apologize for the length though.

This story begins 48 years ago. I was 17. I had been dating a girl whom I will call "Barb" (all names are changed in this post) who was also 17. As time went on, we fell in love. Though we never had sex, there had been some serious makeout sessions through the year between 17-18. And our relationship wasn't just about potential sex in the future, but we just strongly liked each other as well and loving each other. Barb was still dating other guys, and at one point I asked her to be mine alone, but she told me "I really want to, but my dad will not let me date just one guy." Although I loved her strongly, I felt like what was good for her was good for me as well. So I dated a few other girls, but none of them were like Barb. Somewhere on one of our dates, Barb told me in a conversation that her dad had told her she couldn't get married until she was 21. I was happy to wait because I felt like getting married at 17 was too young, and I even made up a tee shirt that said "I'm waiting for 1250 more days" or something like that. I knew at some point it would get close enough to that time that I would ask her to marry me.

Little did I know what was happening in the background. I found out decades later that in Barb's large family (she had 9 siblings) nearly all of the five daughters had been molested by their father. She was kid number 9 and her brother, Bryan had been kicked out of the house. She hadn't yet been molested by her father, but knew, if she was left alone with him, that lucky streak would end. Her mom had died of cancer a few months prior.

Another guy she was dating, Kelly, who had come from a family of abusers, knew the signs. Being opportunistic, he proposed. She accepted because she liked him, but also because he was her ticket out of the house of abuse--or so she thought. I found out through the grapevine about the upcoming marriage before Barb had a chance to tell me herself. When she finally came to talk to me, it was in the break room of a place where we had both taken jobs that summer. "I wanted to be the one to let you know," she said. "I'm so sorry."
I was devastated and could say nothing.

"I love you," she said.

Still saying nothing, I shook my head and walked away, though I should've said what I was thinking, if you love me, why are you marrying him?

In addition to being devastated, I was confused.

I did not date anyone for a couple of years after that. I was bitter. Then one day, I met a girl--again at a job where we both worked. I'll call her Angie. We dated a couple of times and I fell for her. Our first date was in May, and then in June we got engaged. Our marriage date was near the end of that same year. I think it was way too fast, looking back. We were both Mormon then and were to be married in the Mormon temple. I arrived first that morning, but I had been thinking that maybe I was doing the wrong thing. Still though, I knew that if I backed out at that point, she would be devastated. I had already had my heart destroyed once and I just could not bring myself to destroy Angie's heart like mine had been by Barb.

We were married. We made it work, though there were ups and downs. Somewhere in the middle of that time, something triggered a memory Angie had of when she was a kid, age 6-12. During that time period, she had been sexually abused time and again by an older brother. This affected our own sexual relationship, but she got some counseling and got control over it. I had never forgotten my first love though and I had plans that if I lived longer than Angie, I would try to once again find Barb in our old age, and that maybe we could get together.

I found out later that the marriage Barb had gotten into had gone south. Her husband Kelly turned out to be an abuser. He had broken her ribs, jaw, and beaten her many times during their marriage. Then one day when their daughter was a teenager, Kelly threatened the daughter. That was the last straw for Barb. She took her daughter and fled, divorcing Kelly. Not long after that, she came to my home state and tried looking me up, but after seeing my name along with Angie's and the same last name in the phone book, Barb thought better of it and never stopped by to knock on my door.

As time went on though, Angie got sick with an auto-immune disorder. I became her caregiver. This began somewhere around 2007 with a severe case of pneumonia that kept her in the ICU for 8 days. I was fine being a caregiver for several years, but then around 2013, we finally had to move into a house that was easier for Angie to move around in. And right after we moved in, our daughter Cheryl, along with her husband and kids moved in with us as they were financially unstable. They lived in our basement.

In the next few months, Angie and I, along with the rest of the family noticed huge changes in Cheryl. Her behavior began changing rapidly and drastically, and Angie's disposition became increasingly negative. I knew something was wrong with Cheryl almost right away, but Angie seemed to think that Cheryl was just being inconsiderate. Angie's negative behavior became so extreme--slamming her cane down on the bathroom tile over and over, until cracks appeared in the tile--screaming "I hate you!" at Cheryl. This kind of stuff became a constant in our house--Angie's yelling and screaming and rage toward Cheryl. I was becoming extremely depressed and knew that I needed to get out of the situation. I was either going to end my life, end the marriage, or have to see some kind of counselor. I began wondering how I had ended up in this situation--this marriage and that brought my thoughts back to Barb and wondering why that love had gone away way back then. I felt that I needed to contact her if possible and find out what had happened. I was able to track her down. She lived a few states away from me.

Barb was on her third marriage. Apparently after her divorce from Kelly, she had rebounded too quickly and married a guy who ended up divorcing her after about a year because she wasn't enough like his first wife who had died. Barb's third husband, Jack, was a good man though. They met when he stopped to help her alongside the road when she had a flat tire. Though Jack had many good points, he didn't like touching or sex all that much, which was something that ended up being unfulfilling for Barb as she was the opposite--she wanted to be touched and she loved sex.

She and I began talking. A lot. One of the first things she did was tell me Mormonism was a false religion. I listened to her unlike anyone else who had ever tried to show me that before, simply because I had always loved her since our teen days. I studied what she had told me and then I approached Angie and said that I was leaving the Mormon church. I also told her that I had called Barb and talked to her and that she and Jack wanted to get together with us if they ever came and visited our area, which they did every so often because Barb had family in our city. But Angie was not receptive to meeting them. She knew I had loved Barb when I was younger and I guess felt threatened. Unfortunately for her, it was her very thoughts of being threatened and unwilling to meet them as a couple that kept me secretly talking to Barb rather than openly meeting the two of them and maybe establishing a friendship as a couple.

Adding to it was the immense amount of belittling I got from Angie when I left Mormonism. I was being emotionally abused and actually hated for it. I'm absolutely certain Angie would have divorced me just for leaving the Mormon church if she hadn't been dependent on me as her caregiver. Because of that, I was drawn to Barb even more and my relationship was begining to be set in stone.

That was ten years ago. Since that time, Barb and I have kept communicating and become emotionally involved with each other. It was during this time that I found out about why she had married Kelly--because it was her chance to get out of the house where she would be living alone with her molesting father. It was also then that I found out that she had considered contacting me after her first marriage, but stopped when she found Angie and I linked together in the phone book.
We still talk several times a week and I consider her my best friend. Ironic because had Angie been willing to meet them, I'm thinking a lot of this secret stuff would not have ocurred. And it also led to some meetings between Barb and I alone. And there have been some incidences of kissing, fondling, and even oral sex a couple of times in the past ten years. Our youthful love has been rekindled, but neither one of us wants to divorce our spouses. That leaves us ultimately as waiting to outlive them, which is a really odd feeling and something that along with our involvement, should be shameful. And it has led to stress in both of us because we continually are acting in secret. I personally have a huge guilt complex over it and I think Barb does too, yet neither one of us want to stop it after reconnecting after all those years in between. I am more guilty because it was I who in my state of despair having to do with Angie's negativity, rather than taking my own life or filing for divorce, chose to reach out and try to figure out how things had gotten to the point they got to back when I was 17. And that's where we are. Thoughts and advice are welcome.

[Gebidozo]

8 minutes ago, Romans_2 said:

The reason I am not doing that is because she has no other caregiver. That would make me even worse.

Financial dependence is a terrible reason for staying together. 

When you divorce your wife, she’ll get half of your common possessions. You can always leave more to her if you’re feeling guilty for that. 

[Romans_2]

Just now, Gebidozo said:

Financial dependence is a terrible reason for staying together. 

When you divorce your wife, she’ll get half of your common possessions. You can always leave more to her if you’re feeling guilty for that. 

It's not financial dependence. It's physical dependence. She doesn't drive, do laundry, go to the grocery store, transport herself to doctor's appointments etc.

[S2B]

You seem to be deceiving yourself. Using another woman to fill the void in your marriage is also not fair to the other woman. Nor is it fair to your wife.

At the very least get honest with your wife so she has a choice about who she is actually married to.

Edited August 7 by S2B

[Gebidozo]

9 minutes ago, Romans_2 said:

It's not financial dependence. It's physical dependence. She doesn't drive, do laundry, go to the grocery store, transport herself to doctor's appointments etc.

You have a daughter that can help take care of her. You can hire people to help take care of her.

You’ve been cheating on her for ten years, and now you’re basically saying you’re waiting for her to die. It’s better to divorce than to keep living like this.

[BaileyB]

If I’m reading this correctly, you stay with your emotionally abusive wife because she is dependent on you as her caregiver.. but you think your happiness is to be found in a relationship with a married woman - a woman who has been married three times and has a ton of trauma from past relationships? 

I have no advice, I will just wish you good luck. 

[Romans_2]

19 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

You have a daughter that can help take care of her. You can hire people to help take care of her.

You’ve been cheating on her for ten years, and now you’re basically saying you’re waiting for her to die. It’s better to divorce than to keep living like this.

My daughter is in a nursing home with frontotemporal dementia. She's never helping anyone again. I'm not "waiting for her to die". I'm just keeping myself healthy so that I will live longer, and I'm constantly trying to get my wife to be more healthy too by providing healthy meals, discouraging her drinking of diet sodas, and encouraging her to move and exercise as much as her condition permits. 

 

[Gebidozo]

2 minutes ago, Romans_2 said:

My daughter is in a nursing home with frontotemporal dementia. She's never helping anyone again. I'm not "waiting for her to die". I'm just keeping myself healthy so that I will live longer, and I'm constantly trying to get my wife to be more healthy too by providing healthy meals, discouraging her drinking of diet sodas, and encouraging her to move and exercise as much as her condition permits. 

 

Sorry this is happening to you. But you said yourself that you and Barb are just waiting to outlive your spouses. Having an affair and harboring such feelings is not going to solve anything. Your wife surely knows and she can’t be happy this way. Perhaps you should have an honest conversation with her about everything. Try to find a solution together, minimize the damage.

[Romans_2]

34 minutes ago, S2B said:

You seem to be deceiving yourself. Using another woman to fill the void in your marriage is also not fair to the other woman. Nor is it fair to your wife.

At the very least get honest with your wife so she has a choice about who she is actually married to.

Right now she thinks I'm the guy who makes sure she eats three square meals a day, even if I'm going to be gone, gets her where she wants and needs to go, helps her apply anti-fungal cream in places she can't reach, cleans up a trail of poop she leaves from the living room through the kitchen and to the bathroom about once a week, takes care of all the cleaning except for the dishes (she will do them), washes her huge load of underwear laundry (because she's soiling them) and turning them right side out, playing games and doing puzzles with her to keep her from utter boredom. I just don't think I should confess and create even more emotional trauma. I remember listening to Dr. Laura Schlessinger once who said that there's no way you should tell your spouse if you've had an affair that they don't know about just to relieve your own guilty conscience as the hurt it will give them isn't worth it. I believe that.
As for the other woman, she and I have both discussed stopping and have not done so, and I don't think I can stop the friendship part of it ever.

[Romans_2]

1 minute ago, Gebidozo said:

Sorry this is happening to you. But you said yourself that you and Barb are just waiting to outlive your spouses. Having an affair and harboring such feelings is not going to solve anything. Your wife surely knows and she can’t be happy this way. Perhaps you should have an honest conversation with her about everything. Try to find a solution together, minimize the damage.

Thanks for your kind words. I will ponder them.

[basil67]

1 hour ago, Romans_2 said:

I knew something was wrong with Cheryl almost right away, but Angie seemed to think that Cheryl was just being inconsiderate. Angie's negative behavior became so extreme--slamming her cane down on the bathroom tile over and over, until cracks appeared in the tile--screaming "I hate you!" at Cheryl. This kind of stuff became a constant in our house--Angie's yelling and screaming and rage toward Cheryl. I was becoming extremely depressed and knew that I needed to get out of the situation. I was either going to end my life, end the marriage, or have to see some kind of counselor.

Oh for heaven's sake!  I'm blown away at your passivity in this situation and it underscores exactly why you've been cheating on your wife and not making a decision either way.   

And the fact that you listed "see a counsellor" as an option right beside "end my life" is extraordinary.  Are you really so out of tune with your emotions that suicide is a reasonable alternative to seeing a counsellor?

Then there's the issue of you wanting to leave the house and abandon your own daughter and wife in the volatile situation.  Yes, it may have been toxic, but where was your leadership? (Not gender biased...either partner can step up and be a leader if everything else is falling down around them)   If Cheryl was the problem, you could have read her the riot act and told her that if she doesn't get it together be respectful and pull her weight (and her husband pull his weight) in terms of domestic and financial contributions, they needs to leave the house.  If your wife was the problem, you should have told her that if she can't be respectful to your daughter, she needs to have a long hard think about whether or not living in the house is the right situation for her.   If they were both being horrible, you could told them both to behave and organised family counselling.  And don't give me any excuses about whoever leaves being destitute, because they ALWAYS  have a choice to behave and be part of a family unit.

Further you accepted the verbal abuse from your wife because she needed a caregiver.  Are you serious????  Why the hell didn't you tell her that this behaviour is not acceptable and if she keeps it up, you will leave her?   

Dude, it's time to man up.  Get some boundaries!   Let your wife know that you will only stay and continue to care for her if she shows you continual respect.  Let her know that there's someone else on the horizon and that you'll leave her to her to sort out her own supports if she's rude to you again.

[basil67]

58 minutes ago, Romans_2 said:

Right now she thinks I'm the guy who makes sure she eats three square meals a day, even if I'm going to be gone, gets her where she wants and needs to go, helps her apply anti-fungal cream in places she can't reach, cleans up a trail of poop she leaves from the living room through the kitchen and to the bathroom about once a week, takes care of all the cleaning except for the dishes (she will do them), washes her huge load of underwear laundry (because she's soiling them) and turning them right side out, playing games and doing puzzles with her to keep her from utter boredom. I just don't think I should confess and create even more emotional trauma. I remember listening to Dr. Laura Schlessinger once who said that there's no way you should tell your spouse if you've had an affair that they don't know about just to relieve your own guilty conscience as the hurt it will give them isn't worth it. I believe that.
As for the other woman, she and I have both discussed stopping and have not done so, and I don't think I can stop the friendship part of it ever.

You don't seem to like your wife very much (and she sounds horrible anyway) so just end the marriage.  Split the finances so that she can afford to have carer visit or to live in a care facility.  

And I just read that your daughter is in a care facility now (I'm sorry to hear that) so clearly your wife was at fault with all the screaming in the house.  Why the hell didn't you take control and send your wife packing?  What kind of parent allows their increasingly disabled child to live in a situation of abuse!   FWIW, I'm also a carer and it's our responsibility to keep our dependent children safe from abuse.

 

[S2B]

Maybe your wife would do best in a care facility long term. This way she doesn’t have to be deceived for her future.

you don’t respect her and it appears you don’t much like her. She can likely feel this from you.

looks like she may do better if you divorce.

 

[S2B]

You justify your bad behavior. You are still disrespecting and disregarding your wife - the one you took vows with. 
no amount of explaining her care justifies how you are betraying her.

you quoted Dr Laura - she despised cheating - you left that part out. 

treating your wife right would be getting her great full time care and divorcing her. If she knew who you really are and what you’ve been doing - she wouldn’t want you with her.

[Romans_2]

49 minutes ago, S2B said:

You justify your bad behavior. You are still disrespecting and disregarding your wife - the one you took vows with. 
no amount of explaining her care justifies how you are betraying her.

you quoted Dr Laura - she despised cheating - you left that part out. 

treating your wife right would be getting her great full time care and divorcing her. If she knew who you really are and what you’ve been doing - she wouldn’t want you with her.

You are right. I cannot justify my own behavior, only try to explain it however poorly. And perhaps I betrayed her in response to what I felt was betrayal when I left Mormonism and she said, "I will say and do all the right things. I will pretend to like and love you".  So now, even if she acts kind to me, I cannot know if it's only an act. But I do agree that although I tried tremendously through the first 35 years of my marriage to be a good and kind person, in the end I have failed and I do despise myself for it.

[basil67]

8 minutes ago, Romans_2 said:

"I will say and do all the right things. I will pretend to like and love you".

You should have divorced her at this point.  

[Romans_2]

7 minutes ago, basil67 said:

You should have divorced her at this point.  

Yeah, probably.

[Gebidozo]

58 minutes ago, basil67 said:

You should have divorced her at this point.  

…or never married her in the first place, while still being in love with “Barb”😔

[Gebidozo]

1 hour ago, Romans_2 said:

But I do agree that although I tried tremendously through the first 35 years of my marriage to be a good and kind person, in the end I have failed and I do despise myself for it.

I believe that you tried tremendously, and I do feel that you are a good and kind person. But that’s the thing, trying very hard and being good is never enough when the marriage has been lacking love all along, when it was founded on pretense and self-deception in the first place.

In such cases, the marriage will collapse sooner or later, if not outwardly then surely from within, either explode or implode, no matter how hard the partners try, how nice they are, or how many years have passed.

[Romans_2]

6 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

…or never married her in the first place, while still being in love with “Barb”😔

Yeah a lot of "should've, would've, and could'ves" involved. I don't know. At the time, I thought I was in love with "Angie" and actually liked her too. But our first real fight while we were engaged was her insisting that I couldn't have coffee ice cream because that was against the Mormon religion. I mean it was a huge argument. That should've clued me in that my "go along to get along" behavior was going to be sorely tested by her "my way or the highway" personality. And it was and has been. It was a road I could have got off at some point, but you begin to have kids, grandkids, etc., then it seems much more difficult--especially when you don't find out until many years later how bad it is. One thing I didn't mention before was that once I made up my mind that Mormonism was false, she said some really horrible things. You see if you're unfamiliar with it, Mormonism teaches that husbands and wives are married through all eternity after death. If your spouse happens to be "unworthy", you will be given to another. She said something like, "Now I no longer have a husband when I die. I will marry someone else in heaven." And then she said, "Maybe it will be Mark Hansen," saying the name of one of my friends who had died recently of cancer (Not his real name either). Now Mark was one of the finest men I knew, but for her to actually say that---extremely hurtful, and that was before I really deserved to be hurt, meaning the relationship with Barb hadn't progressed by that point.