Cheating. How would you handle this situation?

[Romans_2]

9 hours ago, S2B said:

Maybe your wife would do best in a care facility long term. This way she doesn’t have to be deceived for her future.

you don’t respect her and it appears you don’t much like her. She can likely feel this from you.

looks like she may do better if you divorce.

 

I don't think so. No one would visit her. She can't get friends to come to our house now--or very rarely. There are aspects of "Angie" I do respect. Her stubbornness for one, though it has also been a point of contention at times. And I like her most of the time. It's just that when I don't like her, I really, really don't. However, we both usually apologize later for harsh things we've said. She has a lot of good points. I still love her. You don't continue living with someone for more than 43 years if there isn't some love there.

[heartwhole2]

7 hours ago, Romans_2 said:

You are right. I cannot justify my own behavior, only try to explain it however poorly. And perhaps I betrayed her in response to what I felt was betrayal when I left Mormonism and she said, "I will say and do all the right things. I will pretend to like and love you".  So now, even if she acts kind to me, I cannot know if it's only an act. But I do agree that although I tried tremendously through the first 35 years of my marriage to be a good and kind person, in the end I have failed and I do despise myself for it.

You are a grown man in charge of your own destiny and choices. You don't need Barb to tell you what to believe. You don't need Angie to immediately accept your change of beliefs, or else you are free to cheat on her. You don't need Angie to see what is wrong with Cheryl for you to know what is the right thing. You don't need Barb to want to get a divorce to get one yourself. You focus a lot on how Angie didn't respond how you liked to a situation. Well where was your principled response, where you drew boundaries and showed her what you will and won't tolerate? You feel trapped with Angie, but that's not on her . . . it's on you, for accepting things that you don't like.

I have a relative who did what you are doing. She was unhappy in her marriage, so she had an emotional affair (it was not physical only because the affair partner was incarcerated at the time). When her husband confronted her, she said, "Well, do you love me?" and he hesitated. So she took that single response, which was based on her already having had an affair, to justify it. You're doing that with Angie's response to your change of beliefs, and with her unwillingness to hang out with Barb and Jack. Those are minor disagreements in the grand scheme of things. Minor disagreements do not magically make cheating OK.

Now that said, you did not mention your sex life with your wife. Does her illness prevent this? In that case, I could perhaps understand some kind of friends with benefits situation on the side if you were making healthy choices in the rest of your life. But you, sir, are not a particularly reliable narrator, and you might be tempted to cling to this possible justification and perhaps overstate the situation with your sex life. I also think you would have led with this if it were your situation. 

So I'll return to the beginning. You are a grown man in charge of your own destiny and choices. Angie can't make you do anything. Barb can't make you do anything. If you feel depressed, reaching out to a counselor is a valid and healthy response. Having an affair is not. 

 

[BaileyB]

There is no award for the husband who stays with his abusive wife the longest - because she requires “care” and she has no friends to assist her. 

We don’t know the details about your wife’s condition but I will say, many people have an autoimmune disease and they do not require “care.” There are people who live alone, who have home care, and get their groceries delivered, or have a friend/hire an Uber to drive them to appointments… I mean, for goodness sake, you are doing puzzles with the woman to keep her busy so that she won’t be bored. There is no healthy boundary here - you are doing more than providing “care.” You are trying to take responsibility for the fact that she is eating healthy foods, keeping her busy/engaged such that she is not bored, in addition to the household tasks - things that should be her responsibility. If she has no friends to visit that is a consequence of the fact that she is abusive to others. They have the good sense to establish a healthy boundary and distance themselves - you have to ask yourself why you haven’t done the same? Here you are suffering while you try to accommodate her every need. I have I agree with the statement above, I find you to be incredibly passive and well established in the role of martyr/victim. I have to wonder if she is equally established in her role as “invalid” - ie. how much of this is learned helplessness, or is she actually able to do more to care for herself. I mean, for goodness sake, you are cleaning her underwear and cleaning up her accidents - if she is able to do the dishes, she should be able to do her own laundry… I have to wonder if this, in particular, is her way of punishing and abusing you further…

Anyway, the affair is a poor decision in this situation, no doubt about that. It’s a difficult situation, but divorce is the responsible and respectful decision (more respectful to her, than cheating. I would also argue that divorce would give you a little more self-respect). 

My last point is - her choice of affair partner is also questionable. I think your picker is way… off. If you were both single, and you posted that you had met the most wonderful woman, she had been married three times, she had been sexually abused by her father and abused by her husband… I would say - slow your roll… Those are a lot of red flags, that’s a lot of trauma, take those rose coloured glasses off and be very cautious because your relationship seems to be more fantasy than reality… the fact that you are both married makes it even more concerning. 

Look, tough spot to be in - divorce is not easy. But, staying is not easy either. You are very caught up in the moral aspect of this all - the Church says marriage is for life, I want to be a good person… I would suggest that you find a counsellor that you can speak with because you had a lot going on here… and not someone in the Church. Good luck. 

Edited August 8 by BaileyB

[Gebidozo]

1 hour ago, Romans_2 said:

But our first real fight while we were engaged was her insisting that I couldn't have coffee ice cream because that was against the Mormon religion

That should have been your first clue for not marrying her. 

Trying to force one’s religious beliefs and practices down your partner’s throat is a dealbreaker. 

[BaileyB]

22 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

That should have been your first clue for not marrying her. 

No kidding.

That kind of controlling behavior is never acceptable in a relationship - especially if it is done under the guise of one’s religion. I’m going to restrict and control you - but I’m going to shift the blame to the church? That would never be acceptable to me. 

Edited August 8 by BaileyB

[FredEire]

Wow, quite a story. It seems like you've got yourself in a real bind.

You only have one life to live, and sometimes people mistake being mutually miserable for "care". You clearly don't love this woman any more if you ever did, but cutting her loose is the best option for both of you as your relationship is going nowhere good and hasn't been for a while by the sound of it. She is her own woman at the end of the day and if you're just there for the sake of it because you feel no-one else is that's not a good enough reason.

You've put Barb on a pedestal as the one who got away from your youth, it probably makes the most sense to get the divorce and be with her properly as that's clearly what you want, but as others have said she's certainly got baggage too so being with her may not be the dream you imagine it to be. As I said though you've only got one life, could you live with the fact that you continually put yourself second and was never honest with yourself and the people around you?

[S2B]

Having an affair does not ever solve the issues - it complicates the problems.

it feeds your ego - it’s exciting - but it’s till a betrayal. If you have to hide what you are doing you know it’s wrong.

get divorced. Are you afraid Barb won’t also divorce should you do so? Is your decision based on what Barb will or won’t do?

[Romans_2]

2 hours ago, FredEire said:

Wow, quite a story. It seems like you've got yourself in a real bind.

You only have one life to live, and sometimes people mistake being mutually miserable for "care". You clearly don't love this woman any more if you ever did, but cutting her loose is the best option for both of you as your relationship is going nowhere good and hasn't been for a while by the sound of it. She is her own woman at the end of the day and if you're just there for the sake of it because you feel no-one else is that's not a good enough reason.

You've put Barb on a pedestal as the one who got away from your youth, it probably makes the most sense to get the divorce and be with her properly as that's clearly what you want, but as others have said she's certainly got baggage too so being with her may not be the dream you imagine it to be. As I said though you've only got one life, could you live with the fact that you continually put yourself second and was never honest with yourself and the people around you?

It is so hard for me to hurt people after having been hurt myself. It's why I got into my marriage in the first place (and why I didn't acknowledge that inner feeling on my wedding day to flee), and then a year or two into it, Angie told me that if she hadn't found me, she would most likely be dead. I was only 21--still rebounding as hindsight shows---and dumb and inexperienced as most people are at that age. As time went on though, the repercussions of that bad decision came to fruition. At that point, rather than leave the marriage, I decided I had to live long enough to get free of the situation and live a normal, happier life before my demise. In the meantime, I would tough it out and make the best of things. It came to a crux when things became bad enough that I considered suicide. But of course, I'm here so I got past that.
Barb of course has baggage. She left her abuser husband when her daughter was a teenager, then couldn't stand to be alone and married a widower. He divorced her because Barb "wasn't enough like his first wife" she told me. A couple of years later she met Jack and they have been married for 20 plus years. But there are issues in that marriage. She told me she hadn't been kissed with an open mouth kiss during their entire marriage. There were other things of that nature. So yes, some baggage, but in some ways understandable and not all her fault either. On a pedestal? I don't know about that. I have never stopped loving her though, since we were teens together. Just lost contact for many years. 
So still the story is the same--I can't hurt someone even if it would make things better for me. 

[FredEire]

5 minutes ago, Romans_2 said:

It is so hard for me to hurt people after having been hurt myself. It's why I got into my marriage in the first place (and why I didn't acknowledge that inner feeling on my wedding day to flee), and then a year or two into it, Angie told me that if she hadn't found me, she would most likely be dead. I was only 21--still rebounding as hindsight shows---and dumb and inexperienced as most people are at that age. As time went on though, the repercussions of that bad decision came to fruition. At that point, rather than leave the marriage, I decided I had to live long enough to get free of the situation and live a normal, happier life before my demise. In the meantime, I would tough it out and make the best of things. It came to a crux when things became bad enough that I considered suicide. But of course, I'm here so I got past that.
Barb of course has baggage. She left her abuser husband when her daughter was a teenager, then couldn't stand to be alone and married a widower. He divorced her because Barb "wasn't enough like his first wife" she told me. A couple of years later she met Jack and they have been married for 20 plus years. But there are issues in that marriage. She told me she hadn't been kissed with an open mouth kiss during their entire marriage. There were other things of that nature. So yes, some baggage, but in some ways understandable and not all her fault either. On a pedestal? I don't know about that. I have never stopped loving her though, since we were teens together. Just lost contact for many years. 
So still the story is the same--I can't hurt someone even if it would make things better for me. 

This "can't hurt someone" is an illusion. I'm the child of a very dysfunctional marriage which was held together with sellotape so that they wouldn't hurt their children. And I can say now as an adult that that decision hurt me and my siblings far more in our development than a divorce would have.

You cause a deeper hurt to yourself and others by living a lie to try and keep hearts unbroken. They are already broken, but if you can't face up to reality they will stay that way with no chance to heal.

By "on a pedestal" I mean that you idealised her because of your teenage romance, something that happened fleetingly when you were very different people to the ones you are now. Given you are so unhappy in your current situation I still think the best option is to divorce and give it a go with her, but I'm just saying to be aware that the reality may not be all that it is in your head.

[Romans_2]

35 minutes ago, S2B said:

Having an affair does not ever solve the issues - it complicates the problems.

it feeds your ego - it’s exciting - but it’s till a betrayal. If you have to hide what you are doing you know it’s wrong.

get divorced. Are you afraid Barb won’t also divorce should you do so? Is your decision based on what Barb will or won’t do?

I have known it was wrong as soon as I felt I had to hide something. Barb and I both don't want to divorce and hurt our spouses. Barb's reasoning is slightly different than mine or includes more. In addition to not wanting to hurt Jack she doesn't want to be divorced a third time. It's complicated further by the fact that she and I are both Christian ( bad Christians right now) and the Bible only gives adultery as the reason for divorce--but of course that would be the partner who was being cheated on that would be doing the divorcing for that reason.

 

[S2B]

But you are hurting her. She just doesn’t know it - yet.

you see that, right? 

[Romans_2]

6 minutes ago, FredEire said:

 

By "on a pedestal" I mean that you idealised her because of your teenage romance, something that happened fleetingly when you were very different people to the ones you are now. Given you are so unhappy in your current situation I still think the best option is to divorce and give it a go with her, but I'm just saying to be aware that the reality may not be all that it is in your head.

During much of this time I was working at a job that involved driving. Barb was unemployed for months. We spent a lot of time talking (hundreds of hours) about everything as I was driving. We know each other far better than we ever did. There could still be some surprises, but no more than there would be between other people who consider themselves best friends.

 

[Romans_2]

8 minutes ago, S2B said:

But you are hurting her. She just doesn’t know it - yet.

you see that, right? 

Yes. I know what you're saying.

[heartwhole2]

27 minutes ago, Romans_2 said:

I have known it was wrong as soon as I felt I had to hide something. Barb and I both don't want to divorce and hurt our spouses. Barb's reasoning is slightly different than mine or includes more. In addition to not wanting to hurt Jack she doesn't want to be divorced a third time. It's complicated further by the fact that she and I are both Christian ( bad Christians right now) and the Bible only gives adultery as the reason for divorce--but of course that would be the partner who was being cheated on that would be doing the divorcing for that reason.

 

None of these would stop a person who truly wanted to be divorced. You both want to have your cake and eat it too, at the expense of your unsuspecting spouses. 

It's easy to imagine that your life would be so much better with your affair partner, but it's a gamble that may not pay off. I suspect that Barb is well aware of this.

[FredEire]

33 minutes ago, Romans_2 said:

During much of this time I was working at a job that involved driving. Barb was unemployed for months. We spent a lot of time talking (hundreds of hours) about everything as I was driving. We know each other far better than we ever did. There could still be some surprises, but no more than there would be between other people who consider themselves best friends.

 

Knowing someone well in that capacity is not the same as actually being in an intimate relationship. It's been a constant fantasy for pretty much your whole adult life, but has never been more than that. So there's a lot left unexplored and you just don't know.

That being said staying with your current partners out of "not wanting to hurt them" is doing nobody any favours, not yourselves and not them either.

[S2B]

You know what Barb has told you. She knows what you have told her.

your wife thinks she knows you - but she has no idea who you really are. 

you can’t know what you don’t know.

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, Romans_2 said:

We know each other far better than we ever did. There could still be some surprises, but no more than there would be between other people who consider themselves best friends.

Reality is very unlikely to compare to the fantasy you have created about her and your relationship for all these years…

You very much have the woman on a pedestal. To an unfamiliar listener, it’s very evident in your posts. 

[Romans_2]

2 hours ago, S2B said:

You know what Barb has told you. She knows what you have told her.

your wife thinks she knows you - but she has no idea who you really are. 

you can’t know what you don’t know.

True. As Billy Joel says, "we all have a face that we hide away forever." 

[mark clemson]

If you're not willing to leave your wife, then you are stuck making the best of the situation. While it's not recommended, this is one way to do that I suppose.

Waiting for your spouses to die so you can be together might one day pay off, but of course who can say. Maybe there will be decades more of what you have now and then you or she dies first. (Again if you can't/won't leave) I suppose that's the kind of game you end up playing.

An alternative would be to try to improve your marriage and make it more pleasant. Not sure how realistic that is in your specific case.

[basil67]

@Romans_2 You titled your thread asking how we'd handle the situation, but you seem to reject all the advice which has come your way.  

Are you actually seeking advice or are you just telling a story?

[Romans_2]

Just now, basil67 said:

@Romans_2 You titled your thread asking how we'd handle the situation, but you seem to reject all the advice which has come your way.  

Are you actually seeking advice or are you just telling a story?

I want to see what various commenters think. I'm not sure what I'm looking for at this point. I needed to get it off my chest anonymously for sure. I appreciate the comments and advice and I'm not sure if I will follow any of it, but you all have definitely given me food for thought. I do appreciate you asking that question, because I was wondering myself. I guess sometimes you never know until you can get someone from the outside to look at it and help think things through. 

[S2B]

You mean you came here hoping someone would tell you that all this harm you are doing is ok? 

what anyone usually gets here is truth and reality - because we have lived through many of these scenarios.

they usually end the same - with many people being hurt by the lies and deception. 

Edited August 8 by S2B

[Romans_2]

1 hour ago, S2B said:

You mean you came here hoping someone would tell you that all this harm you are doing is ok? 

 

No. I did not hope for that as even I know that it isn't.

[Romans_2]

11 hours ago, heartwhole2 said:

 

Now that said, you did not mention your sex life with your wife. Does her illness prevent this? In that case, I could perhaps understand some kind of friends with benefits situation on the side if you were making healthy choices in the rest of your life. 

 

The answer is there is still sex, fairly regular--once every three weeks or so generally, and from her point of view, largely done as a duty or chore. She's extremely heavy--as in around 300 pounds and the disease of obesity is probably harming her more than her auto immune disorders, which are rheumatoid arthritis and sjogrens syndrome.

[Romans_2]

10 hours ago, BaileyB said:

We don’t know the details about your wife’s condition but I will say, many people have an autoimmune disease and they do not require “care.” There are people who live alone, who have home care, and get their groceries delivered, or have a friend/hire an Uber to drive them to appointments… I mean, for goodness sake, you are doing puzzles with the woman to keep her busy so that she won’t be bored. There is no healthy boundary here - you are doing more than providing “care.” You are trying to take responsibility for the fact that she is eating healthy foods, keeping her busy/engaged such that she is not bored, in addition to the household tasks - things that should be her responsibility. If she has no friends to visit that is a consequence of the fact that she is abusive to others. They have the good sense to establish a healthy boundary and distance themselves - you have to ask yourself why you haven’t done the same? Here you are suffering while you try to accommodate her every need. I have I agree with the statement above, I find you to be incredibly passive and well established in the role of martyr/victim. I have to wonder if she is equally established in her role as “invalid” - ie. how much of this is learned helplessness, or is she actually able to do more to care for herself. I mean, for goodness sake, you are cleaning her underwear and cleaning up her accidents - if she is able to do the dishes, she should be able to do her own laundry… I have to wonder if this, in particular, is her way of punishing and abusing you further…

 

I can provide more details. The fact is, she has rheumatoid arthritis and sjogrens disease. RA can be very debilitating, but I think her biggest problem is her weight at around 300 pounds. She has a knee that needs replacing and has needed it for ten years or so. She believes or did for a long time that God told her he was going to heal her leg, so she never went and got it fixed. That combined with the weight leaves her as more of an invalid than she needs to be. My passiveness I think is a response that I learned from the terrible pain I felt losing Barb the first time--I never wanted that to happen to me again, so I learned to be the accomodating husband. Go along to get along became my mantra. Happy wife, happy life became my motto. Little did I know how all of that would backfire--I just probably subconsiously believed I was, while giving in, protecting myself from getting hurt again.