Karma gives you lessons the least you expect it

[Caubella]

Long story - shorter. I have been married to my first bf since I was 20. We were growing up together but also into different people. After some physical and often emotional abuse, I lost the love I had for him, but for multiple reason and fears, I never left. It has been over 20 years now. 

When things were the worst, a man came into my life. It started with innocent emails where I actually thought he will be my first gay friend. I just could not believe that a man can be so open as he was. I never had that experience before. But as it turned out, he was perfectly straight and we slowly fell for each other. Back at that time, I felt so much guilt and wanted to make things right. I knew my marriage did not work for years so I asked my husband for separation. It was not good but we managed to live together separated under one roof. I separated my account and insurance as well. We were nothing more than roommates. 

After about one year of seeing OM, he told me he loved me. I was the happiest because I felt the same. But also felt terrible because I was not able to properly date him. He said it is fine as it is right now. I could not understand how he can be fine with it if he truly loves me but I let it be. Now, about 5 months ago, I was scrolling through social site when I accidentally found a profile of a woman with him in picture, posing as a couple would do. My heart sunk. Based on her pictures, she has been seeing the same man a few months before we started to see each other. 

When I confronted him, he said he has been seeing her about once a month. He said there is nothing sexual between them because he is not attracted to her, but he loves her and loves and cares for her kids. He said they have connection and he cannot just end it because of her kids and knowing lots of people from her family that work with him. He said it will take time but he will working on it because he wants to be with me. He swore there is nothing between them beyond kissing and some cuddling. And I was stupid enough to believe it. When I told him how much it hurt me, he said maybe we need to take break until he sorts it out. I could not imagine being without him and he wanted me to stay, so I did. But...

There was my karma for doing this to my husband. I deserved it all. My H did not deserve any of it. No matter how bad our marriage was, he did not deserve the pain of betrayal because what I felt at that moment was tearing my heart apart. I could barely breathe. I am sorry for putting my H through all of that. He deserves so much better...Thanks to karma, now I know how it is to be on both sides of affair. I deserved it. He did not...

Now to the present...OM and I have been meeting for almost 2 years now. He tells me he loves me all the time and follows with actions. He makes me smile and happy. And until recently, he was everything I ever wished for...Until I saw another picture of him and her. I was hoping that things were over by now, but obviously they are not. We talked about it today and I cannot stop crying. I was hoping to have a fair conversation about where we are heading and what is happening with OW, but instead of that, he became defensive as never before. He told me the same thing that he was still seeing her without being intimate. When I mentioned that I am not comfortable with him kissing or spooning another woman,  he got even more angry that it is not sex and I should not be bothered. I said I don't do that with anyone else. He could not understand my point there. When I asked what steps he took to end it since he wanted slow approach and letting it organically die,  he would not say much. He just kept saying that he bonded with kids and they are going through hard time and he cannot messed them up right now. (those are not his kids and they have dad). When I asked if he can stop sleeping there and with her in bed, he did not agree. He just got more and more defensive and cold. At some point, he said if this is so hard for me, I can see someone else or we should end it. All this, while he was telling me that I am love of his life and he could not love me more as he does. Infinitively. He said I am the best relationship he ever had. And yet...no change, no ending with another person, but trows me under the bust the first chance he gets. I was shocked by his coldness and defensiveness. He said he is tired of bringing this up and he just wants us to be happy as we always are. He said just stop stalking her...

I don't know what to do now. Part of me does not believe he is not intimate with her. Also, how could he develop such a strong bond with kids he sees once a month? If their connection is fine, why is not he committed to her? We see each other multiple times each week.  I feel physically sick just by writing about it. The way he spoke to me was so different from a man I usually see. Despite him telling me how much he loves me and want to be with me, I feel unloved and unheard. I don't feel safe and I cannot trust him. I just feel really lost at this moment. Am I totally naive here? 

[BaileyB]

7 hours ago, Caubella said:

I don't know what to do now.

You expect monogamy from a man who is currently pursuing a relationship with another woman. That’s not a recipe for a happy life/happy relationship.

What he is not really willing to say but he implies by his evasive and defensive response to your questions is that he is not leaving this other relationship. He has given you every reason he can think of not to leave the other relationship. At some point, you will need to accept that fact… but it’s difficult, because it will mean the end of your affair. 

The other option would be to make the changes in your life such that you can properly date the man and be in a relationship - he is tired of waiting. But, I personally wouldn’t do that for the reason below…

 

7 hours ago, Caubella said:

I feel unloved and unheard. I don't feel safe and I cannot trust him.

You need to end this affair. 

Edited August 15 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

If I may, I would try to be grateful for the role that he played in helping you to find the strength to leave a bad marriage. I would suggest that you get some counselling if you can, to help to prepare you for your next relationship. And then, when you are ready, I would set about finding the love that is meant for you - because this isn’t it. A man who is willing to cheat with you and then cheats on you be secretly starting a relationship with another woman… this is not your guy. 

[Gebidozo]

You need to break up with that man immediately.

He doesn’t love you. He is a liar who either just uses you for easy sex while being seriously involved with that other woman, or he uses both women and loves nothing but his own ego. In either case, this is not the man you should have a relationship with.

I know it hurts, but please don’t have hope for that guy. Remove him from your life and start to heal.

I also think that it would be much better to divorce your husband and live in separate households. It’s weird to be “roommates” with your ex. I don’t think men would want to date a woman who is still living with her not-yet-ex-husband. I wouldn’t, for sure. That OM of yours would because he doesn’t genuinely care. You were absolutely right to point that out to him.

Don’t beat yourself up over the separation from your husband. You did the right thing. You set him free. He can now pursue a relationship with a woman who loves him. 

Edited August 15 by Gebidozo

[stillafool]

I agree with the others that this man is not in love with you.  He sounds like he's in love with the other woman because nothing you say is enough for him to stop seeing her. The kids are an excuse.  Yes bad things do tend to happen to us when we cheat on others.  Your husband deserves better.  Let him go so he can find it.

[flitzanu]

sounds like this guy could be married, maybe that's his wife.

[Caubella]

Thank you everyone for your replies. She is not his wife but after our last talk, he calls her his GF. When I found out about her back in February, he said they were together for 2 years, now he says 3. IDK. She had him in her profile pics for at least 2 now. We talked. He keeps saying they are not sleeping together because he is not sexually attracted to her. He keeps saying this over and over again. He keeps saying it's kids and their messed up situation after divorce from their father why he is taking this slow approach. He said he doesn't want to hurt them. He also keeps saying there is lots of her family working for a company we both work for. IDK. 

My thing is ... How do you keep connection and have such a strong bond with kids if you see them just a once a month on average? How? If you care so much, why don't you see them every weekend? 

I know he doesn't go there every weekend because we exchange pictures and he often tells me what he is up to. I don't believe he could be so calculating that he would send me old pictures or taks them  purposely earlier to show them as "proof". I don't or don't want to believe he is that twisted. 

I just don't understand why he keeps seeing me if he loves her so much and see future with her. 

When we are together, he is loving. With my H, I didn't experience all these forehead kisses, hand kisses, lots of touch in non sexual way. He asks about my life, my family, my day and he actually listens. When I don't have a good day, he picks me up by being encouraging me. He remembers little things I tell him and keeps doing them. I don't think he uses me for sex, because we are intimate once a week on average. And until I found out about her, he was my safe harbor when I felt at peace that I couldn't find at home for years now. 

I just don't understand... When we started to see each other, he knew from a day one I was married. And I told him that if he wants to see another people, I would want to know in advance because I don't want to be part of it then. He had his chance right there to tell me he is seeing someone, but he didn't. He let me fall in love with him knowing what he knows. 

At this point, all I have in the back of my mind is how he can stay with her over the weekend once a month, sleep in bed with her and claim he doesn't want sex. And even if he does that, how can she be okay with it? Why is she okay with seeing him so little? Why he keeps seeing me and telling me he wants to be with me? Just end it then if the bond with her kids means you so much!

[Caubella]

On 8/16/2024 at 8:06 AM, stillafool said:

I agree with the others that this man is not in love with you.  He sounds like he's in love with the other woman because nothing you say is enough for him to stop seeing her. The kids are an excuse.  Yes bad things do tend to happen to us when we cheat on others.  Your husband deserves better.  Let him go so he can find it.

You are right. My husband deserves better, so much better. By separating from him the way I did, I thought I was sparing him from some pain and easing him into divorce. I was naive. And selfish. The things is, we can emphasize all we want with others, but until we are in their shoes, we barely know what they are going through. My H didn't deserve what I put him through and all the pain I caused him. No one does. 

[Caubella]

On 8/15/2024 at 7:53 AM, Gebidozo said:

You need to break up with that man immediately.

He doesn’t love you. He is a liar who either just uses you for easy sex while being seriously involved with that other woman, or he uses both women and loves nothing but his own ego. In either case, this is not the man you should have a relationship with.

I know it hurts, but please don’t have hope for that guy. Remove him from your life and start to heal.

I also think that it would be much better to divorce your husband and live in separate households. It’s weird to be “roommates” with your ex. I don’t think men would want to date a woman who is still living with her not-yet-ex-husband. I wouldn’t, for sure. That OM of yours would because he doesn’t genuinely care. You were absolutely right to point that out to him.

Don’t beat yourself up over the separation from your husband. You did the right thing. You set him free. He can now pursue a relationship with a woman who loves him. 

I thought that by staying under one roof,  both of us can spend equal time with our child. My H worried that I would take her from him. I don't want to do that and I would not do that to her. She needs both of us. Divorce as it is, is something foreign to my family. My mom didn't leave my dad even when he was chasing her with an axe while being drunk. He emotionally abused her even since I can remember and alcohol was more important for him than having a bread on table. When I told my mom about divorce, she was first understanding and then upset. She loves my H and I get that. 

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, Caubella said:

I thought that by staying under one roof,  both of us can spend equal time with our child. My H worried that I would take her from him. I don't want to do that and I would not do that to her. She needs both of us.

Ok, but you have to understand that most men will date a woman if she is still living with her husband - whether they are still married, legally separated, or divorced.

In my humble opinion, you need to be suspicious of any man who wants to be a relationship with a woman who is still living with her husband. Most men would look at your situation and say - she is not ready to commit to another man/another relationship. Most men are likely to avoid this situation with a 10 foot pole. The only men who are going to agree to this are men in a similar situation to the man that you are currently involved with - those who are otherwise committed and not available to commit to anything more than a casual relationship with you. 
 

3 hours ago, Caubella said:

My thing is ... How do you keep connection and have such a strong bond with kids if you see them just a once a month on average? How? If you care so much, why don't you see them every weekend? 

This is not your question to answer. You are so busy worrying how the fire started and asking yourself why he didn’t put it out that you are failing to notice - the whole house has gone up in flames! It’s destroyed. The question you need to be asking yourself is - now what do I need to do? 

For whatever the reason, he has chosen to be in a relationship with another woman and he is telling you in as many words and by his lack of action that he is not ready to end this relationship.

Rather than asking the question - why does he stay with this woman - you should be asking yourself the question, “why do I stay with a man who is committed to another woman?” 

Abusive men/relationships can also be kind and loving… they don’t have to be drunken and mean. Your affair partner has not been honest with you and he has taken advantage of your trust for his own benefit - that’s manipulative and unkind. Abusive, in a different kind of way. 

Edited August 17 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

30 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Ok, but you have to understand that most men will not date a woman if she is still living with her husband - whether they are still married, legally separated, or divorced.

Apologies, I meant to say that most men will not date a woman who is still living with her (ex) husband and child. 

[BaileyB]

59 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Abusive men/relationships can also be kind and loving… they don’t have to be drunken and mean. Your affair partner has not been honest with you and he has taken advantage of your trust for his own benefit - that’s manipulative and unkind. Abusive, in a different kind of way. 

It’s an abuse of your trust. And, allowing a woman to fall in love and get her hopes up when he has no intention/ability to commit to the relationship is an incredibly hurtful thing to do. 

[Caubella]

3 hours ago, BaileyB said:

It’s an abuse of your trust. And, allowing a woman to fall in love and get her hopes up when he has no intention/ability to commit to the relationship is an incredibly hurtful thing to do. 

Thank you, Bailey! There is so much wisdom in your words. It's so easy to see things rationally when a heart is not involved. I'm trying to stay rational and look at things as if this was happening to my friend. What would I advise her to do? 

It works for a little but then I go back to asking why am I not enough if he keeps saying things like You're love of my life, best relationship, etc. He says he loves me all the time. Then why this is not enough? 

I'm sitting at home during a beautiful day and watching my daughter play with her best friend. But my mind is miles away wondering why he didn't text for 7 hours now. It's the weekend and my anxiety is up high. He told me about his plans for today but I don't believe he couldn't text. Unless, of course, he is with her. It's rather heart sinking feeling. 

[BaileyB]

2 minutes ago, Caubella said:

He keeps saying things like You're love of my life, best relationship, etc. He says he loves me all the time. Then why this is not enough? 

Only he can answer that question. 

The bottom line - it’s obviously not enough or he would do what is required to be together. As would you. When my parents met, they were both dating other people… the very next day, they broke up with the people they were dating to pursue a relationship with each other. When people really want to be together, they “move mountains” as the saying goes…

You really need to think about whether you want a man who could do this to you. Can you trust that he’s going to be honest with you? Can you trust that he will be faithful? Because I have to tell you, if a man deceived me in this way - it wouldn’t matter what he said to me. His actions tell another story. Quite honestly, I wouldn’t be around to hear his pretty words…

If I may, the core problem here is that you are so desperate for comfort and affection that you are letting your emotions guide your decisions. And emotional decisions are not usually wise decisions. He knows what your currency is and because he says the words that you long to hear, you are willing to forgive the fact that he has deceived you and that he is in a relationship with another woman. If you want a peaceful and happy life, you need to chose your relationship partner wisely… and this man is not a safe partner for you. 

 

[BaileyB]

31 minutes ago, Caubella said:

then I go back to asking why am I not enough

This is your problem. When you find your own self worth/self respect, you won’t entertain a man who treats you with this kind of disrespect. 

You are clearly doing the “pick me dance.” “Why does he stay with her? Surely, he loves me more. What does she have that I don’t have? He tells me all the time that he loves me more, but he doesn’t pick me… why?” 

There are no winners when you are competing with another woman for a man’s affection. The only winner here is him - and he knows it. It’s why he keeps it going… until you find the self respect to remove yourself, and tell him that you are worth more than this…

Ironically, by ending the relationship you may actually force his hand. If he wants to be in a relationship with you - he will need to leave his current partner. Although, you will also have to do the same… for the two of you to actually be together. 
 

31 minutes ago, Caubella said:

He told me about his plans for today but I don't believe he couldn't text. Unless, of course, he is with her. It's rather heart sinking feeling. 

You are in for more of the same if you stay. You are the other woman. It’s not a peaceful or happy place to be - nothing but more anxiety, sadness, and the longer it continues the more it will destroy your self esteem… 

Edited August 17 by BaileyB

[Gebidozo]

3 hours ago, Caubella said:

It works for a little but then I go back to asking why am I not enough if he keeps saying things like You're love of my life, best relationship, etc. He says he loves me all the time. Then why this is not enough? 

It’s not about you not being enough for him, it’s about him not being enough for you.

Anyone can say anything. Don’t listen to his words, see his actions. He is committed to someone else. He has used you for his pleasure and entertainment and never intended to be together with you. It doesn’t matter whether he honestly thought he was in love with you or was just lying through his teeth all along. This was never love, and his words without any actions to back them are empty and meaningless.

[Caubella]

Thank you for all the replies. I know you are right and mean well. I can't concentrate on those yet....My anxiety is getting the best of me now. After not hearing from him for 12 hours, he sent me bunch of messages and said that he was at store and then at his parents house. He always messages at least once when he is there. Nothing yesterday until night. 

I just nicely asked if he was or is with her while calling him with the nickname that is loving. All I got back was "???" And then silence. Nothing. 

I guess I crossed lines by communicating instead of assuming or letting myself steam on inside wondering whether he was or wasn't with her. I can't stand this. I want to trust his words that he was where he was but at the same time, he usually doesn't go half a day without contacting me. 

And now, I don't even know if he will respond. I feel so much anxiety. 

 

[Gebidozo]

22 minutes ago, Caubella said:

My anxiety is getting the best of me now.

Indeed. So the first thing you need to do is stop all communication with that man. He won’t cure your anxiety, he’ll just make it much worse.

[BaileyB]

I’m sorry that you are feeling such anxiety, but this is the norm when you are in a relationship with a man and you are not his primary partner. 

His answer tells you that he was with his girlfriend. And that causes you anxiety, as it should… but, he is where he should be - with his partner. You have to understand that he is going to spend time with the woman with whole he is in a relationship.
 

22 minutes ago, Caubella said:

I want to trust his words that he was where he was but at the same time, he usually doesn't go half a day without contacting me. 

You can’t trust his words, he lies to you on a daily basis. He lies to you about things big and small. And he lies to her about your presence in his life. This man is dishonest and untrustworthy - you need to understand that.

If you have the ability to find a counsellor, I would suggest that you find some support for yourself. This is a difficult situation, whether you decide to stay or go.  

[Caubella]

13 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

I’m sorry that you are feeling such anxiety, but this is the norm when you are in a relationship with a man and you are not his primary partner. 

His answer tells you that he was with his girlfriend. And that causes you anxiety, as it should… but, he is where he should be - with his partner. You have to understand that he is going to spend time with the woman with whole he is in a relationship.
 

You can’t trust his words, he lies to you on a daily basis. He lies to you about things big and small. And he lies to her about your presence in his life. This man is dishonest and untrustworthy - you need to understand that.

If you have the ability to find a counsellor, I would suggest that you find some support for yourself. This is a difficult situation, whether you decide to stay or go.  

I will need to find a therapist. What bothers me the most is that even if he was with her, why to start message by saying " I am sorry baby. I went to the store and then came back to my parents." That was his explanation why he took 12 hours to respond even though I was not asking before. Now I feel guilty what if he is mad that I didn't believe that at first place and questioned him. 

Yes, she is his GF but how committed is he to her for real? Seeing her once a month? If I was single and her, I would not be happy with that. And I know even thinking about that is pathetic. Thank you for being so patient with me, Bailey! I really appreciate it.

[Gebidozo]

5 minutes ago, Caubella said:

Now I feel guilty what if he is mad that I didn't believe that at first place and questioned him. 

This guy appears to be an emotional abuser and a manipulator if he got you to feel this way. Please block him now. Don’t look back.

 

6 minutes ago, Caubella said:

Yes, she is his GF but how committed is he to her for real? Seeing her once a month?

What does it matter? He is in a romantic relationship with her. He isn’t interested in being with you. His own problems with other women have nothing to do with you. Please don’t grasp at such straws.

[BaileyB]

27 minutes ago, Caubella said:

Yes, she is his GF but how committed is he to her for real? Seeing her once a month? If I was single and her, I would not be happy with that.

He is not you. It’s his life, and it’s his relationship. That is not your question to answer.

You are going to make yourself crazy trying to find the answer to - why does he chose this relationship for himself? The simple truth is - he has chosen this relationship for himself. 

He was clearly with her. He lied to you about that, as he has lied to you about the fact that he is in a relationship in the past. And, he clearly didn’t appreciate your question - how dare you ask whether he was with his chosen relationship partner!!

Words are just words, his words would be meaningless to me if he has chosen to be in another relationship while also in a relationship with me. That’s a dealbreaker for me - why is it not for you? 
 

27 minutes ago, Caubella said:

What bothers me the most is that even if he was with her, why to start message by saying " I am sorry baby. I went to the store and then came back to my parents."

Why does a liar lie? Because it’s his nature…

Why does a man in an affair lie to his affair partner - because that is the nature of the affair. 

You are expecting honesty and ethics from a man who has cheated with you and now on you. That doesn’t seem to me like a wise or reasonable thing to do - does it? 

Edited August 18 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

This isn’t love. 

I’m sorry to say, he doesn’t love you. If he did, he would never hurt you in this way.

And you have clearly formed a very unhealthy attachment to this man. You know it’s unhealthy because you find yourself wracked with anxiety, clinging to this relationship out of fear. 

This relationship has served its purpose, it has given you the strength to end your marriage. It has shown you what it is to be in a relationship with a man who is affectionate and caring. What this relationship is missing love and respect. A forever relationship requires honesty, trust, fidelity, and respect. 

When you end it, you will grieve the loss of this relationship. But, your broken heart will heal. You may actually be surprised with the relief you will feel not to be wracked with anxiety, in a constant state of emotional turmoil.

Edited August 18 by BaileyB

[Caubella]

He texted me this morning just to say Good morning. He totally avoided our last night conversation where I asked if he is with her. Then managed to send kiss emojis. Honestly, what bothers me more than if he was with her, it's actually fact that he would lie  about his whereabouts in his early message. On his own without me asking.

I know you all are right about this not going anywhere. I asked myself these questions before over and over again. I asked myself how can someone that truly loves you to lie to you from the beginning. How can he truly love you if he keeps doing the same thing while pretending he is working on ending it.

It was just last Friday when I looked at him and peacefully asked if he wants to be with her. He said he doesn't. He said he will show me he chooses us. I was ready to leave if he said yes. I don't want to compete for his love. 

What I find incredibly hard is to actually accept that he is not who I thought he was. Who he portrait to be. Or maybe I just wanted to see what I wanted to see. 

[BaileyB]

16 minutes ago, Caubella said:

It was just last Friday when I looked at him and peacefully asked if he wants to be with her. He said he doesn't. He said he will show me he chooses us.

I would ask him - how did you show me this weekend that you chose us? You spent the weekend with her. You lied to me about your plans. And then, when I asked you the question you avoided responding and shifted the blame to me. None of that shows you that he “chooses you.” 
 

19 minutes ago, Caubella said:

What I find incredibly hard is to actually accept that he is not who I thought he was. Who he portrait to be. Or maybe I just wanted to see what I wanted to see. 

As Maya Angelou so famously said, when someone shows you who they truly are - believe them.

You are not wrong about the fact that your challenge is to let go of the fantasy you have created about this relationship - the man that you thought he was…

Hearts heal. 
Your mind will keep you up at night. It’s your mind that keeps you stuck. 
You need to convince your mind that it has to let go... because your heart already knows how to heal.