Following up on an old topic. We broke up because I was noncommittal (in her eyes)

[harnold]

Original thread here, but I'll give some context so you dont need to re-read it: https://www.loveshack.org/forums/topic/654699-moving-too-fast-but-i-think-there-are-other-issues-what-would-you-do/

 

Basically, we had a 'break up' 2 weeks ago which lasted less than 12 hours.  It happened over the phone, and she had trouble articulating what was on her mind, but I'm pretty sure it was due to her perceiving me as the 'lack of commitment' type and feeling unsure about our future.  I never updated the thread, but she called the next day apologizing, saying she was just under so much pressure with life and took her anxiety out on me.  The following week was great and very intense.  I had already met much of her family (aunts, cousins), but I finally met her father.  We celebrated her 25th birthday with all her family members.  All new milestones for sure.

 

In that thread I mentioned my fear of commitment, but also realized that I would indeed be willing to explore a relationship with this girl.  This was unrelated to the breakup itself, but rather a convo I had with a friend where I realized it was time for me to kind of let my guard down and allow someone into my life.  Over the next week, the topic of an official label never came up, but we said 'I love you' for the first time ever.  Yes, we said it before putting a label on our relationship, interestingly enough.

 

In spite of that, things soon got weird again. We started arguing, and I saw some weird texts from other guys.  I wrote it off as an attractive girl just getting texts from random guys, which I know happens, but something about it bothered me.  Just a weird gut feeling.  Im not the jealous/sensitive type, so when I get a feeling, its usually past the point where most other people would have said something. But whatever.  Since we never put a 'label' on our relationship (mostly due to my reluctance to do so), I didnt feel it was 'justified' for me to hold it against her - even though we had already mentioned that we were both exclusive to each other (just without a label).  But it was definitely shady.

 

Anyway.  We had some silly arguments in the days following (drama all initiated on her behalf), and it was just a weird vibe.  Her tone had changed.  The last argument we had, she took it as impetus to end our relationship.  Pretty sure it was just her way to exit the relationship as opposed to an actual grievance she had.  In general, this past month we had been having more drama than we had been having previously, and it was slowly getting more and more common.  Combine this w the fact that we had a 'soft' breakup 2 weeks ago, and that she had probably been entertaining guys on the side as potential backups in case this doesnt work out, and this was probably a decision she had been contemplating for a while.

 

From everything Ive been piecing together these past few days, our breakup was entirely 100% based on her not seeing a future with us.  She often mentioned we dont spend enough time together, she wishes we could hang more since we live so close, Im cold and distant, I tend to exclude her from her life, etc etc.  Im a very busy person, and towards the end we were seeing each other 2-3x a week for 8 hours at a time + 5 phone calls a day (sometimes for hours or more), which is ALOT for me.  I was genuinely trying my best to balance our time together with other life obligations we had, and Ive never been in a relationship this intense, but I can 100% where she was coming from.  Especially since the lack of commitment was always on her mind. 

 

A # of times she asked where I saw things going, and I told her I kind of go with the flow.  She hinted a # of times at the whole "what are we/what aren't we" thing, and when I asked her 'what do you mean', shed back off and get all nervous.  I probably shouldve pressed her, eventually I did tell her I wanted to build a future with her, but that was the most it ever got to. I did kind of tease her for being so lovey dovey, prob not the best move in hindsight.

 

So that's that.  Its over now, and shes 100% seeing her backups.  It is what it is.  When she sent the breakup text, I told her I accepted her decision, cared about her deeply, and wished her nothing but the best.  Im told I came off kind of cold, but I was also peeved at recent events.  It is what it is.

 

I'm not sure how my tone comes off ITT, but I do care about her.  As I mentioned, a genuine relationship is something Id be willing to explore, but we never got the chance to address that topic since our first breakup.  Im giving myself some time to process everything, but I was thinking about sending a followup text.  Not sure what I would say, but basically it would be an apology for my closed off ness, excluding her from my life, and willingness to work on things should she be willing to do so.  And leave it at that.  Nothing too gushy, just sincere.

 

Not sure how much it means since shes prob investing her time with someone else now, and her return would probably be predicated on it not working with said dude. But I want to leave that door open since my last text (and overall general distant demeanor) prob gave the vibe that I dont care.  If she responds well, great.  If not, then it is what it is.

 

What do you guys think? Is there a way to express my willingness to be more serious at a time when shes already made her decision? Too little too late? Try anyway and see what happens?

 

We were dating a little over 3 months btw (3 months and a week, lol).  The connection was seriously great, in spite of my assholish detachedness which Im now picking up on after having written all this.

Edited August 18 by harnold

[Gebidozo]

After only 3 months of dating, you’ve celebrated birthday with her family, professed your love to each other, were seeing each other for 8 hours straight, had 5 daily phone calls that sometimes lasted for hours, she was accusing you of lacking commitment and had some backup men lined up, and you’re still holding an “open door” for her?

I’m sorry, but pretty much all of this sounds insane to me.

[harnold]

30 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

After only 3 months of dating, you’ve celebrated birthday with her family, professed your love to each other, were seeing each other for 8 hours straight, had 5 daily phone calls that sometimes lasted for hours, she was accusing you of lacking commitment and had some backup men lined up, and you’re still holding an “open door” for her?

I’m sorry, but pretty much all of this sounds insane to me.

Thank you for that because I was really feeling like I was going crazy here.  As if I had really wronged her.  Id love to hear some more feedback from others as to whether Im just a little defective overall, whether it was just an unhealthy situation, or any combination overall.  As an aside, Im told this sort of experience is somewhat common dating a Latina woman - they are just very intense overall

 

But I agree.  It was a bit too intense given my own dating background, and I told her a # of times the intensity was kind of giving me anxiety.  A few weeks ago I told myself I wanted to have a genuine talk to her about how much pressure it was putting on me, but we never got around to it.  Additionall, I work in an industry where the workload has gotten very demanding these past few weeks, and the added pressure of balancing that + her attachment style was definitely stressful for me.

 

In spite of all that, this was absolutely the best relationship / connection Ive had with someone for a long, long time.  Which is why I view it as something worth exploring.  Im sure if we ever did get back together the balance aspect would need to be worked out.  The time together we have together in person is amazing, its the time in btwn where we kinda struggle with.

Edited August 18 by harnold

[FredEire]

I know it's not generally good to stereotype, but I think this relationship style is pretty common with women from Latin America, as I've got quite a bit of experience dating girls from that part of the world and it would drive me/has driven me up the wall. (The girl I'm dating now is Latina as well and isn't like that at all, which suits me a lot better, so not always the case obviously).

This kind of joined at the hip, hours of phonecalls every day, grand gestures all the time relationship just isn't for me, and I'm guessing it might not be for you either? There's nothing wrong with that, you can't force something that you personally don't like or feel comfortable with, and neither can she.

I think you show good self-awareness about the fear of commitment, but maybe part of that is getting into things with girls who just aren't compatible with you? That way there's no danger that it'll ever really work out in the end.

Edited August 18 by FredEire

[harnold]

18 minutes ago, FredEire said:

I know it's not generally good to stereotype, but I think this relationship style is pretty common with women from Latin America, as I've got quite a bit of experience dating girls from that part of the world and it would drive me/has driven me up the wall. (The girl I'm dating now is Latina as well and isn't like that at all, which suits me a lot better, so not always the case obviously).

This kind of joined at the hip, hours of phonecalls every day, grand gestures all the time relationship just isn't for me, and I'm guessing it might not be for you either? There's nothing wrong with that, you can't force something that you personally don't like or feel comfortable with, and neither can she.

I think you show good self-awareness about the fear of commitment, but maybe part of that is getting into things with girls who just aren't compatible with you? That way there's no danger that it'll ever really work out in the end.

She really did get intense very early on.  Talking to me about love on the 2nd and 3rd date ('what do you think about love', 'I have so much love to give'), and about 2 months into dating, she called me drunk basically saying all types of intense stuff.  "I just want to love you", "I really want to meet your mom soon", and a bunch of other stuff IDR.  The next day I felt weird AF because it was just so much for me to take in all at once, but she eventually apologized.

 

The previous poster actually really got me thinking.  I really do hate to stereotype, but this has been my experience with other Latinas as well.  In one case, it was a girl who I found out later was very eager to get married.  And as I reflect on the current girl, I wonder if thats the case with this one as well.  I neglected to mention this earlier, but she doesnt have citizenship here.  She's here illegally.

 

A # of times throughout my relationship with this girl, she told me she had explored the idea of getting married to get her family over here.  She even paid someone to marry her, that dude kinda took her money and ran, but she does have his last name right now.  Two weeks ago, she told me she was having crazy anxiety about turning 25 and 'getting old'.  And wanting to have a family and get married eventually.  And last week, the very last day we hung out, she broke into tears about not having seen her grandfather in Spain in many years, and how badly she wanted to have papers so he could visit him as he was getting old / didnt have alot of time left etc.  I immediately knew what she was getting at... marriage.  Lol.

 

Even though our connection was great, Im now wondering how much of her dating prerogative is based around marriage.  I was shocked how cold she was during the breakup, and not emotional at all.  In her recent social media posts, etc, she doesnt seem too bothered about the breakup, which both I and a # of other people have remarked.  I wonder if she's just 'goal oriented' when it comes to dating, and if she doesnt get her goal (marriage), shes easily willing to cut ties + move on.

 

Its a shame because she was so damn cool.  All my previous Latina relationships have been super volatile and had tons of lows as well as highs, but this one was just consistent highs all the time.  I really liked that.

Edited August 18 by harnold

[FredEire]

7 minutes ago, harnold said:

She really did get intense very early on.  Talking to me about love on the 2nd and 3rd date ('what do you think about love', 'I have so much love to give'), and about 2 months into dating, she called me drunk basically saying all types of intense stuff.  "I just want to love you", "I really want to meet your mom soon", and a bunch of other stuff IDR.  The next day I felt weird AF because it was just so much for me to take in all at once, but she eventually apologized.

 

The previous poster actually really got me thinking.  I really do hate to stereotype, but this has been my experience with other Latinas as well.  In one case, it was a girl who I found out later was very eager to get married.  And as I reflect on the current girl, I wonder if thats the case with this one as well.  I neglected to mention this earlier, but she doesnt have citizenship here.  She's here illegally.

 

A # of times throughout my relationship with this girl, she told me she had explored the idea of getting married to get her family over here.  She even paid someone to marry her, that dude kinda took her money and ran, but she does have his last name right now.  Two weeks ago, she told me she was having crazy anxiety about turning 25 and 'getting old'.  And wanting to have a family and get married eventually.  And last week, the very last day we hung out, she broke into tears about not having seen her grandfather in Spain in many years, and how badly she wanted to have papers so he could visit him as he was getting old / didnt have alot of time left etc.  I immediately knew what she was getting at... marriage.  Lol.

 

Even though our connection was great, Im now wondering how much of her dating prerogative is based around marriage.  I was shocked how cold she was during the breakup, and not emotional at all.  In her recent social media posts, etc, she doesnt seem too bothered about the breakup, which both I and a # of other people have remarked.  I wonder if she's just 'goal oriented' when it comes to dating, and if she doesnt get her goal (marriage), shes easily willing to cut ties + move on.

 

Its a shame because she was so damn cool.  All my previous Latina relationships have been super volatile and had tons of lows as well as highs, but this one was just consistent highs all the time.  I really liked that.

Yeah, I went through pretty much all of that with my ex. The doubts about marriage, the clinginess, the great connection we had that made me question if I was crazy for wanting out in the end. I feel you.

But throughout the whole thing I felt constantly like she was trying to mould me into Mr Latin Lover. As much as she'd continually say how much she loved how I was and that I was so different to the other guys she'd dated, as in less overtly clingy and romantic, her actions and reactions said otherwise. I felt immense pressure to spend all my time with her and romance her constantly, and at times it almost felt she wanted me to cheat on her to ignite some kind of Latin spark that she was used to.

After we broke up she got together with a guy who was from the same country as her and constantly posted romantic pictures of them together, etc. It took me a long time to get over and I'd constantly wonder what was wrong with me that it didn't work out etc., but now years later I can see that she just wasn't right for me, and I wasn't right for her because we didn't suit eachother, and perhaps her bf now is a better fit. It's sometimes as simple as that.

[Gaeta]

2 hours ago, harnold said:

but we said 'I love you' for the first time ever.

Excuse me but! If a man says ILY to me * that's a label*. If l was dating you l would have wondered what game you're playing. 

Yes l agree with the others the Latina women are used of a heavier, more intense pursuit from men. The time you devoted to her seemed ok but you lacked in the romancing/promise department and you lacked in the blending your life together.

That type of women isn't for you. You tried and it didn't work. She wanted too much at only 3 months dating. 

Let her find what she's looking for and find a better suited partner for yourself.

Edited August 18 by Gaeta

[smackie9]

She must be pretty hot for you to be putting up with all this crap. Don't let hotness be your decision to make this work. You are being a damn fool. Get the hell away from her. There's a reason why you are hesitant...she ain't right for you.

[harnold]

1 hour ago, smackie9 said:

She must be pretty hot for you to be putting up with all this crap. Don't let hotness be your decision to make this work. You are being a damn fool. Get the hell away from her. There's a reason why you are hesitant...she ain't right for you.

Thank you.  Yes, its a little difficult to think objectively since obv the situation is so personal to me.  Is there any part in particular youre referring to about me being a fool? Some of the above posters ascribe the situation to a 'lack of compatibility', but it sounds like you think its not a 'we' thing and its more of a 'her' thing.  Whats the biggest red flag you see?

[harnold]

3 hours ago, Gaeta said:

Excuse me but! If a man says ILY to me * that's a label*. If l was dating you l would have wondered what game you're playing. 

Yes l agree with the others the Latina women are used of a heavier, more intense pursuit from men. The time you devoted to her seemed ok but you lacked in the romancing/promise department and you lacked in the blending your life together.

That type of women isn't for you. You tried and it didn't work. She wanted too much at only 3 months dating. 

Let her find what she's looking for and find a better suited partner for yourself.

Its not a game.  I think its just my background, which I had communicated to her many times.  Eg in my family, despite me loving my mom and vice versa, we dont really say I love you.  I honestly only remember he ever saying it once to me in my 30 some years being alive.

 

Im also bothered by the fact that she was definitely going on dates with other dudes the whole time we were seeing each other.  Im a pretty confident dude, non jealous and pretty trusting, so I tend to overlook little signs here and there.  But looking back there were some obv indicators.  And even though we never explicitly put a label on it, we agreed early on that we were exclusive.  I stopped seeing other girls a while ago but I know now she continued to intermittently go on dates.  In spite of my a**h*** inability to commit to a girl and general coldness, I definitely didn't deserve that.

[Gaeta]

4 minutes ago, harnold said:

I definitely didn't deserve that.

Nah! Don't have this attitude. We are responsible 100% of who we let into our life. Recognize you made a bad choice and move on.  Next time don't overlook little things, clarify what *you* need in a relationship, if it's more time say so, and for goodness sake exclusivity means exclusivity! You knew she was going on dates and you stood by! C'mon! You need to watch your back! No one else will! 

[Gebidozo]

6 hours ago, harnold said:

The time together we have together in person is amazing, its the time in btwn where we kinda struggle with.

The time together during such an early stage in the relationship is always amazing. Otherwise, why even start a relationship?

You can’t really make any conclusions or form an opinion about a possible long-term relationship from only 3 months of passion. But you already struggled during the time in between, how is that a good sign? 

[Gebidozo]

5 hours ago, harnold said:

Talking to me about love on the 2nd and 3rd date ('what do you think about love', 'I have so much love to give'), and about 2 months into dating, she called me drunk basically saying all types of intense stuff.  "I just want to love you", "I really want to meet your mom soon", and a bunch of other stuff IDR.  The next day I felt weird AF because it was just so much for me to take in all at once, but she eventually apologized.

I’d be very, very careful with a person who says “I have so much love to give”. This kind of pointless boasting is usually an indicator of deep insecurities. People who really have much love to give don’t praise themselves for doing it, they just give it. You should have recognized those as the red flags that they were. 

[Gebidozo]

6 hours ago, harnold said:

I neglected to mention this earlier, but she doesnt have citizenship here.  She's here illegally.

A # of times throughout my relationship with this girl, she told me she had explored the idea of getting married to get her family over here.  She even paid someone to marry her, that dude kinda took her money and ran, but she does have his last name right now.  Two weeks ago, she told me she was having crazy anxiety about turning 25 and 'getting old'.  And wanting to have a family and get married eventually.  And last week, the very last day we hung out, she broke into tears about not having seen her grandfather in Spain in many years, and how badly she wanted to have papers so he could visit him as he was getting old / didnt have alot of time left etc.  I immediately knew what she was getting at... marriage.  Lol.

There is nothing funny here. I don’t understand how you even considered getting together with a girl who was clearly using you to get what she really wanted - marriage for material reasons. 
 

6 hours ago, harnold said:

Even though our connection was great,

No, it wasn’t! She was just using you. Once she realized she won’t be able to dupe you into marrying her that soon, she moved onto the next victim. How can you be so naive? There was nothing great there, she never loved you. Please see things for what they are and have more self respect in the future.

6 hours ago, harnold said:

I was shocked how cold she was during the breakup, and not emotional at all.

No kidding. Why would she be emotional about some guy she tried using for material gain? It’s “Ok, this one didn’t work out! Next!” for her now.

[Gebidozo]

59 minutes ago, harnold said:

Im also bothered by the fact that she was definitely going on dates with other dudes the whole time we were seeing each other.  Im a pretty confident dude, non jealous and pretty trusting, so I tend to overlook little signs here and there.

“Little signs”?.. Dude, she was using you and stringing along a bunch of other guys so that she could keep working on her “marriage plus visa” project.

You weren’t “confident” or “trusting”, you were naive, gullible, and out of touch with reality.

[harnold]

1 hour ago, Gebidozo said:

There is nothing funny here. I don’t understand how you even considered getting together with a girl who was clearly using you to get what she really wanted - marriage for material reasons. 
 

No, it wasn’t! She was just using you. Once she realized she won’t be able to dupe you into marrying her that soon, she moved onto the next victim. How can you be so naive? There was nothing great there, she never loved you. Please see things for what they are and have more self respect in the future.

No kidding. Why would she be emotional about some guy she tried using for material gain? It’s “Ok, this one didn’t work out! Next!” for her now.

Yep, these are all points Im only realizing now.  In fact I didnt even really realize it until today after the first few responses to my OP.  It never hit me in the moment.  Like, obv I knew what she was getting at when she was saying that stuff, but I only considered it to be tangential conversation.  Never really considered that it may have been her overriding objective.  And I agree 1000% on the emotional detachment when she realized it wasnt suiting her.  Really happy I posted this because its led me to have some insights I didnt have before.

[harnold]

2 hours ago, FredEire said:

Yeah, I went through pretty much all of that with my ex. The doubts about marriage, the clinginess, the great connection we had that made me question if I was crazy for wanting out in the end. I feel you.

But throughout the whole thing I felt constantly like she was trying to mould me into Mr Latin Lover. As much as she'd continually say how much she loved how I was and that I was so different to the other guys she'd dated, as in less overtly clingy and romantic, her actions and reactions said otherwise. I felt immense pressure to spend all my time with her and romance her constantly, and at times it almost felt she wanted me to cheat on her to ignite some kind of Latin spark that she was used to.

After we broke up she got together with a guy who was from the same country as her and constantly posted romantic pictures of them together, etc. It took me a long time to get over and I'd constantly wonder what was wrong with me that it didn't work out etc., but now years later I can see that she just wasn't right for me, and I wasn't right for her because we didn't suit eachother, and perhaps her bf now is a better fit. It's sometimes as simple as that.

The doubts about marriage? Can you elaborate?  Just curious as to what youre referring to.  FWIW this girl only dates white guys.

 

I never got the impression she was trying to mold me, just that she craved more attention / time / commitment than what I was giving her.  Regardless of the outcome that ended up happening, Im grateful for this relationship because it helped me learn alot about myself.  I hope it all works out for her.  As of now I dont think Ill reach out to her, which was my initial intention when posting this thread.  Really grateful for the responses ITT.

[Gaeta]

2 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

I neglected to mention this earlier, but she doesnt have citizenship here.  She's here illegally

How could l miss this! 

@harnold: You have to date smarter! you dudged several bullets here! Do not contact her again. 

[Lotsgoingon]

Dude, she wanted to say that you were looking to marry her, not now, but down the line. She also wanted words that simply said, "You and I are boyfriend/girlfriend and we are committed to each other and sexually exclusive" (the words are rarely that formal). 

You admit you are closed off. Be careful. I was closed off to a number of women until I met women I REALLY liked .I wasn't closed. I was simply ambivalent about a lot of women I dated. I hadn't learned how to relax and let myself see if this person really felt right with me, over time. 

You got the immigration story--so yes, bringing family over is her #1 priority. You somehow missed this.

Dude, it's good this thing ended. You guys were going nowhere! 

[FredEire]

9 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

Dude, she wanted to say that you were looking to marry her, not now, but down the line. She also wanted words that simply said, "You and I are boyfriend/girlfriend and we are committed to each other and sexually exclusive" (the words are rarely that formal). 

You admit you are closed off. Be careful. I was closed off to a number of women until I met women I REALLY liked .I wasn't closed. I was simply ambivalent about a lot of women I dated. I hadn't learned how to relax and let myself see if this person really felt right with me, over time. 

You got the immigration story--so yes, bringing family over is her #1 priority. You somehow missed this.

Dude, it's good this thing ended. You guys were going nowhere! 

Yes, I'm only figuring this out now myself.

If you are hunting for fireworks, I think it can be the wrong approach. Because often when you REALLY like someone straight away, it's for all the wrong reasons. They provide a challenge, you want to win them over to fill a hole in your heart.

Someone who's stable, engaged and interested is usually a healthier person to date. There's plenty of good women I dated and gave up on because as you said I knew I liked them but I felt ambivalent rather than infatuated and desperate for her to like me. Infatuation often comes because you know you are more interested than she is, and you feel like you need her to be on the same level by changing this.

Edited August 19 by FredEire