the importance of birthdays

[loony]

There is this thread where a woman complained, because her boyfriend didn't get her anything for her birthday. Her complaint raised a lot of questions for me.

 

Men were little boys who grew up and got birthday gifts, so I guess, they know how nice it is to get something. If they had a couple of relationships, they will also know that their girlfriends usually expected something for their birthday. If they have kids they will probably remember to buy them something for their birthday. So, the question is: Why do some men don't understand why a birthday is important?

 

I mean, how many men are here who usually didn't get anything on their birthday? And after the nth relationship I would assume that they know that forgetting a birthday is a mini-catastrophe and will only lead to trouble.

 

Of course there are some men and women who don't care about birthdays, but I bet those are rare.

[Touche]

The question you ask is "Why do some men don't understand why a birthday is important?"

 

Same reason SOME men AND SOME women don't understand why being faithful is important.

 

It comes down to selfishness. But I think MOST men and MOST women DO understand why a birthday is important. If you're unlucky enough to run across one of the few who are too selfish to not understand this, then move on. Their selfishness probably spills over into other areas...not just birthdays.

 

This thread has the potential to become another one of those gender wars. I'd hate to see that. I'm sure there are just as many men out there who are hurt by thier g/f or wives not remembering THEIR birthdays. I don't think they're going to be as vocal about it though.

[alphamale]

Of course there are some men and women who don't care about birthdays, but I bet those are rare.

the whole concept of celebrating one's birthday is a predominantly western cultural preoccupation. In eastern cultures birthdays are pretty much ignored.

 

Just a little FYI tidbit.

[slubberdegullion]

It's all about expectations.

 

Some guys - and I'll bet some women too - just don't see birthdays as that big a deal. Now, if the partner has been clear that they'd like something, even flowers or golf balls as a birthday present, then fine. But if the expectation isn't vocalized and the partner is held accountable for actions or inactions he/she takes, then that's just unfair.

 

Me, personally, I don't give a rip about birthdays one way or the other. But if my partner gets all aflutter over them, then sure I'll buy a card and maybe a small present. I don't expect anything in return, though; I don't see it as a "tit-for-tat" kind of game.

[loony]

the whole concept of celebrating one's birthday is a predominantly western cultural preoccupation. In eastern cultures birthdays are pretty much ignored.

I'm not sure about this, but we are not in an Eastern culture anyway. In other cultures it's impolite to point the soles of one's shoes to someone, but here it doesn't matter. You usually try to orientate yourself by the local customs and here birthdays for a lot of people are important.

 

Touche, I don't want a gender war here, but I would say I have seen more women feel hurt because of their partner forgetting their birthday than the other way around.

[loony]

Some guys - and I'll bet some women too - just don't see birthdays as that big a deal. Now, if the partner has been clear that they'd like something, even flowers or golf balls as a birthday present, then fine. But if the expectation isn't vocalized and the partner is held accountable for actions or inactions he/she takes, then that's just unfair.

But wouldn't you say that the majority see birthdays as something important and that people who don't care about it are int he minority? And as far as I know, people in everyday life usually will go with what is the norm, in this case, expect that their partner want a gift unless he/she has vocalized that they do not care about it.

[Touche]

My point Loony is that I suspect there are just as many men hurt by that kind of indifference but they're not likely to let you or anyone know about it. Or they just are more willing to let it go and not dwell on it.

[alphamale]

I'm not sure about this, but we are not in an Eastern culture anyway.

I was not making a judgement call LOONEY...I was just pointing out that just because B-day are such a big deal here it doesn't mean they are a big deal everywhere.

[slubberdegullion]

I was not making a judgement call LOONEY...I was just pointing out that just because B-day are such a big deal here it doesn't mean they are a big deal everywhere.

I don't think Loony was calling you on a judgement, so it's not an attack on your values or anything like that; I think it's just one of those "when in Rome..." kinda things.

[NYCmitch25]

I think what you are asking is : Why do some men realize that birthday's are "important" for say their children but seemingly forget about their wives on this occasion? Simple, there is an age when we should stop expecting others to make a big deal out of our birthday's, and that age is more like 16 than 36.

 

When you say "Why do some men don't understand why a birthday is important?" is saying that birthdays are important to some people and perhaps that should be taken into consideration. My SO has been well trained to believe in birthdays so I generally go all out like this year buying her a 500 dollar camera and taking her out to dinner. So I guess I'm a little conflicted because birthdays aren't important whatsoever but they serve as a nice way to do something for your SO. However for me I dislike them so hopefully my SO got the message this year and doesn't get me anything next year...

[ReluctantRomeo]

So, the question is: Why do some men don't understand why a birthday is important?

 

Of course there are some men and women who don't care about birthdays, but I bet those are rare.

 

Errr, actually, I don't really care much about birthdays. I'm with Slubber on this - I'm not very calendar oriented in my gift giving. This has obvious roots - my family are not big on birthdays.

 

Through observation though, I understand that other people DO care about birthdays. So I make a big fuss of theirs. In fact, yesterday I arranged a surprise birthday party for a friend and I'm arranging another for the weekend.

 

But I'm still a little bemused by the concept.

[Fun2BMe]

I think that it is a mean spirited, passive-agressive controlling behavior when a guy (maybe a woman too though I do not know of such cases) doesn't acknowledge or does not get a gift for his girlfriend or wife for her birthday.

 

Men know how important it is for women and it is an act of cruelty when they fail to get a gift for that special day. I have left a boyfriend over this and looking back I could think of other areas he was passive agressive as well. Screw that. I only have so many birthdays and I'm not going to want to waste any with someone who doesn't think it's a special day worth celebrating and making me happy.

 

I wish there was a way to tell if someone you're dating is going to turn out to not get you a birthday gift that way I wouldn't end up spending (wasting) the preceeding months with him.

[bluechocolate]

Men know how important it is for women and it is an act of cruelty when they fail to get a gift for that special day.

 

:lmao:

 

An act of cruelty?!?! You must be joking!

 

For some people it is not a big deal. If it is sooooo important to you that you're going to end a relationship over it then you should be upfront & tell the guy - BEFORE your birthday comes & goes.

 

I think it's passive aggressive to assume that someone should intuitively know what is going on in another's mind & when they don't, they get attacked and/or dumped for it.

[Woggle]

I always remember those little days. It's just a way of showing appreciation for the person you love and what trouble is it to get a gift and then enjoy a day with the one you love?

[brashgal]

I agree that it's not a gender thing. My ex would stop on the way home on my birthday at the supermarket (closest store to the house) and buy me a card and flowers or maybe a cake. Which was ok - at least he remembered. On the other hand, if he felt his birthday gift was substandard, he'd complain which sometimes escalated into a tirade along with a few hours of silent treatment.

 

Geez, he could be a self-centered s.o.b...

[Fun2BMe]

If it is sooooo important to you that you're going to end a relationship over it then you should be upfront & tell the guy - BEFORE your birthday comes & goes.

I am not going to have a meeting telling the guy "when it's my birthday you should get me a gift." Maybe some women are demanding, in your face and blunt about it, but that defeats the purpose. If it's not in him to do it, then the only way I'll find out unfortunately is the hard way, after which he'll get the boot. It's an act of cruelty that is a relationship-breaker.

[Walk]

duplicate post.

[Walk]

I think the difference in views between posters is less then what it's being made out to be.. For instance, NYCmitch25: doesn't want a big deal made out of it. But does he really mean that he expects the day to come and go, with nothing mentioned, no word of it's passing? Is it simply another day like any other? Forgotten as easily as any other day? Or does he mean he doesn't want a plethora of gifts and money and celebration on his birthday?

 

For me, my biggest wish on my birthdays is to spend it with the people I love. I wish they wouldn't get me gifts. I hate all the hoopla, big deal, of gifts and cakes. Always have. But if they FORGET my birthday entirely, that will piss me off instantly.

 

So I'm not so sure we're talking about opposite views between posters. The only difference is the amount of gifts given. (monetarily or numerically)

 

NYCmitch25 feels little material gift giving is needed.

Fun2 believes a big to-do should be made.

But both still think it should be acknowledged. The difference is in the degree. Am I right in this?

 

And if this is true, then when a birthday is forgotten completely, then it could be inferred that the person doesn't care about the birthday girl or boy. Correct? And all other gestures of rememberance are then judged on the persons level of materialism? The more given means they are more loved if you are materialistic. If not materialistic, then a phone calls or spending the day together would be "the gift".

 

*am I making sense? too tired..*

[Fun2BMe]

NYCmitch25 feels little material gift giving is needed.

Fun2 believes a big to-do should be made.

But both still think it should be acknowledged. The difference is in the degree. Am I right in this?

If you go back to the first post of this thread, it is referring to another thread where the girl is upset she didn't get ANY gift for her b-day from her boyfriend.

 

I DON'T believe a big to-do should be made, and I'm not materialistic as you speculate further in your post. I would be ok with a cheap imitation perfume wrapped up in b-day paper.

 

If he doesn't want to bother with ANY effort in giving a gift and has no clue (doubtful) that it brings pleasure for his significant other to receive a birthday present, then they are just not my type. In my head I think he is trying to make me feel like ****, or doesn't care enough to make me feel happy and special and acknowledged.

 

If y'all are ok with that, that's strangely ok I guess. But I'm not going to spend my life with someone who doesn't give a sh** about that day. I like to reciprocate too and what about anniversaries, holidays - am I supposed to be in suspense that MAYBE I'll be lucky and he'll feel like celebrating it with a gift? Those are the small things in life to look forward to and I think those of us who enjoy those things do not match up with those who don't.

[Walk]

If you go back to the first post of this thread, it is referring to another thread where the girl is upset she didn't get ANY gift for her b-day from her boyfriend.

 

I know the post this is refering to, and yes the girl was called on her birthday and wished a happy birthday. So her birthday was acknowledged and given weight. ie. he remembered. Her complaint was that he didn't buy her anything, but he'd bought his daughter an extremely expensive gift on her birthday. This is moot... this original post is not discussing the difference in dollar amount between the gf and daughters gifts, but whether men understand the importance of bday's to their partner, and what that importance means.

 

I DON'T believe a big to-do should be made, and I'm not materialistic as you speculate further in your post. I would be ok with a cheap imitation perfume wrapped up in b-day paper.

 

.............In my head I think he is trying to make me feel like ****, or doesn't care enough to make me feel happy and special and acknowledged.

I'm not "speculating" that your materialistic. (You've got a chip on your shoulder bigger then a damn tv) I'm stating that materialistic tendencies are apparent in desiring a material object to give significance to a certain day, or holiday. I didn't state there was anything wrong in your thinking, or desires to have your birthday acknowledged with a gift. You place more weight on a gift purchased, then I do. You're not wrong in desiring this, I'm not saying your evil, or somehow corrupt, so you can take off the boxing gloves, ok?

 

I do think it's evil and selfish if partners don't express their wants or desires for presents prior to the date. That's cruel, and inhumane. To leave a person floundering with whether or not to get something, and then what to get, how much should they spend, something very personal, or won't it be personal enough...? There's no reason to leave your partner blowing in the wind like that... At the very least, drop big hints. If they don't get you something after you're sure they couldn't have missed your meaning, then go ahead and scream and yell. But just waiting quietly til they "screw up" the day for you, is like laying a clever trap and then getting mad that you caught them in it.

[Fun2BMe]

I don't mean to come across with any chips or box gloves, it might sound that way but I'm not. I am only trying to explain where I'm coming from and not sure if you get it yet.

 

Her complaint was that he didn't buy her anything, but he'd bought his daughter an extremely expensive gift on her birthday.

Ok, now I remember that post. What kind of boyfriend buys his daughter expensive gifts and doesn't get his girlfriend anything? There's no excuse that he's not the "gift giving" type, or speculation he might follow Eastern customs or can't afford it (we're talking about ANYTHING, not dollar value, it could be a big box with a hand made craft in it for all that matters, let alone if he could afford to buy a more pricey gift).

 

He is being passive-agressive and indirectly, or more like directly and bluntly, trying to show her who means more to him and who is worth making feel special and thought of on their birthday. I wish she would dump his sorry ass but I know relationships aren't that simple and I don't know what she ended up doing. I feel very sad for her for having to go through that.

 

I do think it's evil and selfish if partners don't express their wants or desires for presents prior to the date.

I don't think you get what I'm saying. What's the point of the guy being thoughtful if you're doing the thinking for them? Are you going to drive them to the store and tell them what to get you too? The whole point of receiving the gift is that it indicates they thought of you (on their own if that needs to be spelled out here) and you get surprised.

 

At the very least, drop big hints.

Read what I just wrote above. I don't want to hold a gun to his head and force him to buy a gift or drop obvious hints! How "romantic" and meaningful would the gift then be? 0%.

 

If they don't get you something after you're sure they couldn't have missed your meaning, then go ahead and scream and yell. But just waiting quietly til they "screw up" the day for you, is like laying a clever trap and then getting mad that you caught them in it.

In response, again I state what I wrote above. Also, it's not that he "screwed up" and got caught and significant other gets mad at him, as much as he wasn't thoughtful, shows what his personality is like (cruel and thoughtless) and he could better be suited for someone who would be ok with that behavior. I'm not going to scream and yell, at least not to him. I'm going to feel hurt, I'll post on LS about it like the other girl did, then leave him.

[Outcast]

What kind of boyfriend buys his daughter expensive gifts and doesn't get his girlfriend anything?

 

It was never clear that the expensive gifts were bought for the daughter's birthday. The complaint was that gifts were bought for the daughter periodically but not for the gf's birthday.

 

I don't think you get what I'm saying. What's the point of the guy being thoughtful if you're doing the thinking for them?

 

He is being passive-agressive and indirectly, or more like directly and bluntly, trying to show her who means more to him and who is worth making feel special and thought of on their birthday

 

Seems to me you're the individual who gets bent out of shape when someone she's just met doesn't call her every day and then when he does call, hangs up on him.

 

There is a critical point here: NEVER ASSUME YOU CORRECTLY UNDERSTAND SOMEONE ELSE'S MOTIVATIONS UNTIL YOU ASK.

 

You have NO idea of the person's past or history so to leap to the conclusion that someone is passive-aggressive, blah blah is inane. It could be he was brought up in a religion or a family that is against celebrating birthdays (there are many). It could be his last three gfs got mad at him for celebrating birthdays because they grew up in such families or such countries. There can be a million reasons for anyone's behaviour and it is beyond craziness to assume you understand what someone is thinking unless you ASK HIM.

 

Similarly, it's craziness to force people to read your mind and act on their mind-reading capabilities. If you want something, you tell someone. Maybe not just before, but in the general scheme of things, there will be an opportunity to discuss your overall philosophies about birthdays and that's when you make it known that it's important to you that it be celebrated.

[loony]

I do think it's evil and selfish if partners don't express their wants or desires for presents prior to the date. That's cruel, and inhumane. To leave a person floundering with whether or not to get something, and then what to get, how much should they spend, something very personal, or won't it be personal enough...? There's no reason to leave your partner blowing in the wind like that... At the very least, drop big hints. If they don't get you something after you're sure they couldn't have missed your meaning, then go ahead and scream and yell. But just waiting quietly til they "screw up" the day for you, is like laying a clever trap and then getting mad that you caught them in it.

My assumption is that most people care about birthdays, especially women and therefore a guy who already has kids and various ex-wives and girlfriends should know that a woman has expectations concerning this special day. I also think that if he isn't sure, he could ask her if she wants something. I'd prefer to have a partner who is paying a little attention to what might make me happy, than having someone to whom I have to direct and tell constantly what I want.

 

Outcast is right, too. In any case she should clarify his motivations before she dumps his sorry ass.

[bluechocolate]

What's the point of the guy being thoughtful if you're doing the thinking for them? Are you going to drive them to the store and tell them what to get you too?

Why is it one extreme or the other? As someone once wrote here - communication is so underrated.

 

This is sensible:

Maybe not just before, but in the general scheme of things, there will be an opportunity to discuss your overall philosophies about birthdays and that's when you make it known that it's important to you that it be celebrated.

The whole point of receiving the gift is that it indicates they thought of you (on their own if that needs to be spelled out here) and you get surprised.

That is YOUR philosophy on birthdays. How is it unthoughtful if someone were to ask you what you wanted and/or wanted to do for your birthday? I know a woman who goes out of her way to make sure that no one knows, acknowledges or celebrates her birthday!

 

MY philosophy on birthdays is that, like Christmas, they are for children. I'm not advocating that it is OK that they are ignored entirely, nothing of the sort, but in the grand scheme of things we're talking about 1 day out of 365. I think that beyond the age of 21 the only birthdays that are of great importance are milestones, 30, 40.... etc. Even then I don't see any reason why you shouldn't/couldn't organise your own event.

 

Ask and ye shall receive.

[FataMorgana]

I always remember those little days. It's just a way of showing appreciation for the person you love and what trouble is it to get a gift and then enjoy a day with the one you love?

 

I am with you on this one Woggle. nicely said