Genital herpes

[Gebidozo]

6 hours ago, despairingbuttrying said:

I have naturally idolised and built it up so massively in my head over all these years, that I think anything that might prevent or limit it from meeting the standards I have created, strikes a real fear in my mind, if that makes sense?

Yes, unfortunately it does make sense. 

You’ve said it yourself, you’ve idolized sexual intercourse. As a Christian, you should know that idolizing anything at all is always bad.

I think you might be suffering from the dreaded madonna/whore complex. You created an image of your wife as an angelic, innocent being, and are having trouble to accept a flesh and blood woman with her own flaws and “dirty” secrets.

[despairingbuttrying]

1 hour ago, Gebidozo said:

Yes, unfortunately it does make sense. 

You’ve said it yourself, you’ve idolized sexual intercourse. As a Christian, you should know that idolizing anything at all is always bad.

I think you might be suffering from the dreaded madonna/whore complex. You created an image of your wife as an angelic, innocent being, and are having trouble to accept a flesh and blood woman with her own flaws and “dirty” secrets.

That's exactly it. I think this would have been a defining factor when I was younger in my 20s say. I would reject a girl for simply sleeping with one person because I believed every Christian girl should be saving herself for marriage. Yet i was not exactly innocent myself. Yes maybe I never went all the way and had intercourse but I have sinned sexually. 

But fast forward many years to now present day, and I am certainly not expecting any girl to match up to those once very unrealistic standards. I understand that and that's why I was not going to be surprised if this current lady had slept with a bunch of people. I was ready to hear it from her and expect it. What I did not expect even for a moment and I never entertained it was her herpes diagnosis. I just thought surely not again (like 9 years ago when with my last partner who I met turned out to be HSV2 positive as well). That has what has rocked me because now it's the physical long term consequences as well as the emotional. 

Added to that, yes, it has destroyed my view of her as being this very sweet, soft spoken, girly girl. 

[introverted1]

Unless you plan to only date other virgins -- and not just virgins, but those who have had no skin-to-skin or mouth-to-genital contact either -- there is always a risk of an std.  For example, some strains of HPV can cause warts but there are also strains that cause cancer and these stains are basically symptomless.  HPV is the most common STD in the US and most people do not know they are infected. Estimates are that 80% of women and 90% of men are or have been infected with HPV.

Why am I telling you this?  Because you are in a situation where a woman you think you could build a life with has told you she has HSV, a relatively benign condition (outside of childbirth) and one that can be managed (she needs to go back on antivirals).  In contrast, there are other STDs (like the aforementioned HPV) that she or any other woman could have and unwittingly pass to you. 

Life carries risk. Does the small risk of contracting a bothersome virus outweigh having this woman in your life?  Is it possible that the reason you are a virgin and unpartnered at 41 because subconsciously you do not want to be partnered and this is just a way out for you? 

[Gaeta]

15 minutes ago, despairingbuttrying said:

I never entertained it was her herpes diagnosis. I just thought surely not again (like 9 years ago when with my last partner who I met turned out to be HSV2 positive as well). That has what has rocked me because now it's the physical long term consequences as well as the emotional. 

Added to that, yes, it has destroyed my view of her as being this very sweet, soft spoken, girly girl. 

So much none sense!

What long term consequences?? You may die? You may end up in a wheel chair? You may lose cognitive abilities?? You will need anti-depressants!! You talk like she has leprosy!! Makes me roll my eyes when people identify at christian but carry all sorts of stigma in their back pocket!

She IS very sweet!!! How many partners you think it takes to catch this?? ONE!! 

 

[Els]

28 minutes ago, despairingbuttrying said:

Added to that, yes, it has destroyed my view of her as being this very sweet, soft spoken, girly girl. 

I feel like this mindset is going to be causing you problems in your dating life (and relationship, and marriage if it comes to that) if you don't address it. You may not realize this now because of your inexperience and upbringing, but women are people, just like you. We're not prized objects to be kept on a shelf and admired but never touched and with no desires or needs of our own. Wanting to have sex is a perfectly normal and human desire for both men AND women. It only takes one partner to give her herpes - and it could well have been a very long-term relationship that caused her to get it.

 

8 hours ago, despairingbuttrying said:

I am not there yet, I need to give this more time, let the fear, anxiety and panic settle down first and then see how I feel and make a decision based on when I am calmer.  Like you say however, will I be able to do this, will there always be that thought in the back of my head.  I can be a very analytical and paranoid person at times, so that does not help already.  

I know it's only been a short time, but the thought of her not being in my life and starting over, letting go of this strong connection that we've only started to build is painful to contemplate. It's very rare that I meet someone like this.  Last time was a few years ago but she turned out not to feel the same about me after around a month or so but the time before that, I can't even recall meeting a woman who I really liked and wanted to pursue and they felt the same way.  I should not base any decision on this however but it is still something to consider.  Hence why I feel so conflicted, I am waking up in sweats the last few nights since she told me. 

Do you think you might want to talk to a therapist and a psychologist about the anxiety and panic? With all due respect, it's not normal to be literally "waking up in sweats every night" because a person you dated for 2 months has herpes.

[Els]

8 hours ago, despairingbuttrying said:

Yes I have done other sexual "stuff" in my past, but because I haven't technically had intercourse before, I have naturally idolised and built it up so massively in my head over all these years, that I think anything that might prevent or limit it from meeting the standards I have created, strikes a real fear in my mind, if that makes sense?

I mean... your first time is probably going to last 10 seconds and end with "oh s***". You've definitely gotten caught up in your own head way too much about this, same thing with herpes.

Edited September 3 by Els

[SurfCity]

You're 41, how old is she? 

Have you ever met in person? Online relationships commonly fizzle out the second those two people are in the same room. Most likely that will be your experience as well. It doesn't make sense to build a fantasy relationship in your mind when you have no idea if she's even a real woman. She could be a scammer or a man.

Edited September 3 by SurfCity

[basil67]

2 hours ago, despairingbuttrying said:

Added to that, yes, it has destroyed my view of her as being this very sweet, soft spoken, girly girl. 

Your view was always going to be destroyed because this sounds like a solid case of idolation. 

First up, she's a woman, not a girl.  And while she may be very sweet and have a soft voice, she undoubtedly farts and burps and she has bad days.  And she probably uses a strong voice when she's mad or frustrated.   Add to that how when people are early dating, they are on their best behaviour.  

[despairingbuttrying]

2 hours ago, Gaeta said:

So much none sense!

What long term consequences?? You may die? You may end up in a wheel chair? You may lose cognitive abilities?? You will need anti-depressants!! You talk like she has leprosy!! Makes me roll my eyes when people identify at christian but carry all sorts of stigma in their back pocket!

She IS very sweet!!! How many partners you think it takes to catch this?? ONE!! 

 

I know you're right, it's not like it's life threatening, it is purely the stigma associated with it, which some as you'll see on this very thread play into and I guess that makes me do the same, coupled with my religious views and feminine idolisation.

Essentially it is a cold sore but in your private parts but I think the stigma is there because it is transmitted sexually which is why there is embarrassment and shame around it. No one cares about a cold sore that you got sharing a beer with someone, yet they are essentially the same disease, just contracted differently. 

She had slept around and so was promiscuous for a period of time, which I believe is how she got the herpes - so not through a long term relationship from say a bf who had cheated. This was difficult to hear but this was all before she was a Christian.  However I know the reason why that led her to this period - something significant negatively impacted her just before and so she reacted to this incident by going a little "wild."

Edited September 3 by despairingbuttrying

[despairingbuttrying]

2 hours ago, Els said:

I feel like this mindset is going to be causing you problems in your dating life (and relationship, and marriage if it comes to that) if you don't address it. You may not realize this now because of your inexperience and upbringing, but women are people, just like you. We're not prized objects to be kept on a shelf and admired but never touched and with no desires or needs of our own. Wanting to have sex is a perfectly normal and human desire for both men AND women. It only takes one partner to give her herpes - and it could well have been a very long-term relationship that caused her to get it.

 

Do you think you might want to talk to a therapist and a psychologist about the anxiety and panic? With all due respect, it's not normal to be literally "waking up in sweats every night" because a person you dated for 2 months has herpes.

Yes no doubt I've had this idealisation my whole life, even though I've come to terms of course with accepting that I will not find someone like myself. I'm at peace with that.

I am looking into therapy again. Last time was several years ago. 

[BaileyB]

On 9/2/2024 at 4:55 PM, despairingbuttrying said:

I really want this to work but I fear that this issue is just too bothersome for me.

If it is, that’s fine. But I would suggest that you have a discussion with your doctor - don’t make this decision based on fear or ignorance. That would be a real shame…

[BaileyB]

12 hours ago, Els said:

Like, you could just use protection if the risk bothers you?

Absolutely. And if you marry and decide to have a child, there are options or you could have unprotected sex - the worst happens, you are both positive but you have a happy, active sex life with your spouse. Just like - as was said above - 15% of the general population. 

Honestly, I think your anxiety is getting the better of you here and that’s fair - this is new information. The way to deal with that anxiety is to educate yourself. 
 

Edited September 3 by BaileyB

[Gebidozo]

5 hours ago, despairingbuttrying said:

Added to that, yes, it has destroyed my view of her as being this very sweet, soft spoken, girly girl. 

What’s the connection between having genital herpes and being a very sweet, soft spoken, girly girl?🤔

It’s not the first time in this thread that you’re referring to her disease as though it were something immoral that she did. You do understand that she isn’t doing this to you on purpose, right?

You’re still under the thrall of the madonna/whore complex.

[Gebidozo]

2 hours ago, despairingbuttrying said:

She had slept around and so was promiscuous for a period of time, which I believe is how she got the herpes - so not through a long term relationship from say a bf who had cheated. This was difficult to hear but this was all before she was a Christian.  However I know the reason why that led her to this period - something significant negatively impacted her just before and so she reacted to this incident by going a little "wild."

Oh, so perhaps that is the real reason for the shattering of your idols.

Instead of the non-existing fairy tale, saccharine sweet, innocent virgin who’s been “saving it” her entire life for the stoic-heroic 40 year old you, you see a real, normal, flesh and blood woman who was promiscuous for a period of time.

Of course, you’re willing to forgive her that because she only did it because something had negatively impacted her just before. God forbid she was promiscuous because she liked sex, was curious, wanted to experiment, or for any other normal, natural reason.

But now you’ve found that her behavior actually had some unfortunate consequences. She did something dumb (your idolized madonna types never do anything dumb in their lives), had unprotected sex with someone and now has a light, common disease - a fact that she honestly shared with you, awaiting your judgment.

So now other high and mighty moral authorities are aware of her past, something you can no longer bear, because Caesar’s wife must be beyond reproach. 

OP, please understand that, in order to have joy and happiness in your love life, you must learn to love a woman, a human being, not a concept, an idea, or an idol.

Edited September 4 by Gebidozo

[basil67]

@despairingbuttrying you know how you’ve put PIV sex as the pinnacle in your head, do you know that it’s not the pinnacle for many women?  For us, good sex involves a bit of everything 

[despairingbuttrying]

9 hours ago, basil67 said:

@despairingbuttrying you know how you’ve put PIV sex as the pinnacle in your head, do you know that it’s not the pinnacle for many women?  For us, good sex involves a bit of everything 

Certainly not putting myself on a pedestal. Everyone has had a past, including myself, just because I've never had PIV sex does not mean I am innocent sexually. I have received some oral but not much to be honest, I've never been down on a woman because I never found it that appealing, I've done a fair of genital rubbing I guess so had some contact in that way but yes never penetrative intercourse with anyone. I once tried with one girl I was with for a year but I was too anxious so apparently it went in but I never felt anything! I've had I think around 7 or so "one night stands" with random women either on my travels or women I've met online and ended up doing sexual stuff like oral, fingering but that's about it. Again no intercourse because I backed out when the opportunity arose. I do sometimes wonder what my life would have been like if I had gone all the way with all of these women I have been with (both the one offs and the more long term) which would have equated to a substantial amount of sexual experience for me. Would then, this situation with this girl be easier to deal with because I would have experience?? Maybe. But then again I did what I believed was the right action at the time according to my own Christian convictions.

[Gaeta]

3 minutes ago, despairingbuttrying said:

I have received some oral

Did you use a condom during oral sex?

[despairingbuttrying]

5 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

Did you use a condom during oral sex?

The times I did with I think it was around 4 women in total, I never did no. And yes, looking back that was foolish but I do recall feeling really paranoid. Had a full test done and was negative for everything and have never had any kind of outbreak myself. 

[Gebidozo]

10 minutes ago, despairingbuttrying said:

never penetrative intercourse with anyone.

You just said you’ve received oral and fingered women. That’s penetrative intercourse by definition.

 

11 minutes ago, despairingbuttrying said:

I do sometimes wonder what my life would have been like if I had gone all the way with all of these women I have been with (both the one offs and the more long term) which would have equated to a substantial amount of sexual experience for me. Would then, this situation with this girl be easier to deal with because I would have experience?

Maybe. Many men are sexually insecure and have fear of female sexuality. It could get especially grave when the woman has more experience than the man, like in your case. 

 

13 minutes ago, despairingbuttrying said:

But then again I did what I believed was the right action at the time according to my own Christian convictions.

I’m a Christian too, and I don’t understand how doing all sorts of heavy sexual things can magically preserve your virginity just because your penis never entered a woman’s vagina (in fact, in your case it actually did! You just “didn’t feel anything”). You aren’t a virgin and you’ve had a fair amount of sexual encounters with different women. 

Can’t you feel yourself how silly it is to refrain from PIV sex and to still consider oneself a virgin who has fulfilled a Christian ideal? 

[Els]

8 hours ago, despairingbuttrying said:

Certainly not putting myself on a pedestal. Everyone has had a past, including myself, just because I've never had PIV sex does not mean I am innocent sexually. I have received some oral but not much to be honest, I've never been down on a woman because I never found it that appealing, I've done a fair of genital rubbing I guess so had some contact in that way but yes never penetrative intercourse with anyone. I once tried with one girl I was with for a year but I was too anxious so apparently it went in but I never felt anything! I've had I think around 7 or so "one night stands" with random women either on my travels or women I've met online and ended up doing sexual stuff like oral, fingering but that's about it. Again no intercourse because I backed out when the opportunity arose. I do sometimes wonder what my life would have been like if I had gone all the way with all of these women I have been with (both the one offs and the more long term) which would have equated to a substantial amount of sexual experience for me. Would then, this situation with this girl be easier to deal with because I would have experience?? Maybe. But then again I did what I believed was the right action at the time according to my own Christian convictions.

I think @basil67 was saying that vaginal intercourse isn't the end all be all of sex, especially for women.

Also, umm, wow. I hate to say this, but if you've had 7 one night stands with random strangers and had unprotected sex (including unprotected oral sex), you probably already have an STD. It's not just PIV that can transmit STDs.

I'm actually really perplexed by this revelation because the whole core of your issue with this woman is the conflict with your "Christian values". But you had not one, not two, but SEVEN one night stands???? How does that work? Your realize sex is sex, right? Gay men have oral sex all the time without intercourse, do you think they "aren't having sex" in Biblical terms when they do that? Not judging you at all for the one night stands, it's the hypocrisy and things not making sense that gets me.

Edited September 4 by Els

[Els]

8 hours ago, despairingbuttrying said:

The times I did with I think it was around 4 women in total, I never did no. And yes, looking back that was foolish but I do recall feeling really paranoid. Had a full test done and was negative for everything and have never had any kind of outbreak myself. 

There are STDs that you can't test for. Including the HPV virus, which is asymptomatic in men, but can give your future bride cervical cancer.

[BaileyB]

20 minutes ago, basil67 said:

I would suggest that if one is refraining because of their religion, then virginity is about purity.  It's not about refraining from one particular part of sex.    My man, you are far from pure

People have so many twisted beliefs about what does/does not constitute virginity. I have friends who “abstained” from sex prior to marriage because they wanted to remain “pure” - they were far more sexually active than I was at the time. There were a lot of things happening - just not penetrative vaginal sex because THAT was special and needed to be saved for the wedding night.  

Edited September 4 by BaileyB

[Els]

Also... do you ever intend to reveal to this woman the fact that you've had 7 one night stands with strangers and had unprotected sex with some of them?

[despairingbuttrying]

1 hour ago, Els said:

Also... do you ever intend to reveal to this woman the fact that you've had 7 one night stands with strangers and had unprotected sex with some of them?

Where have I said I had unprotected sex? I shouldn't have used the term one night stand, what I meant was I hooked up with them for the evening, and we had some fun, received oral from a few of them but at no point did my penis enter their vaginas. As I've said looking back on all this, I deeply regret it. 

I realise sometimes oral sex can transmit stds which is why I've had tests done and they've all been clear. 

Yes I am far from pure, none of us are. I never said I was perfect. I started the thread to discuss how to navigate the news of a partner disclosing that they have a STD and how to deal with the emotional and psychical challenges of someone in that situation. 

 

[despairingbuttrying]

1 hour ago, BaileyB said:

People have so many twisted beliefs about what does/does not constitute virginity. I have friends who “abstained” from sex prior to marriage because they wanted to remain “pure” - they were far more sexually active than I was at the time. There were a lot of things happening - just not penetrative vaginal sex because THAT was special and needed to be saved for the wedding night.  

Yes I get it and you're right, and this is where I have been wrong. I think I'm pure just because I haven't had vaginal intercourse but of course I'm far from pure.