Is this a red flag that I should have seen and then ended?

[fred123]

Just now, Gaeta said:

Of course but that depends on many variables. 

Did you meet this woman?

Yes. 

What variables would u say?

I guess I can sense or feel if she doesn't want to touch or kiss me after a a couple of dates then generally that's not a good sign?

What if you know that the same girl has slept with guys on first dates before? Is that a huge sign she ain't into you? Just curius

[basil67]

2 minutes ago, fred123 said:

I guess I can sense or feel if she doesn't want to touch or kiss me after a a couple of dates then generally that's not a good sign?

If there's no physical chemistry, then end it

Quote

What if you know that the same girl has slept with guys on first dates before? Is that a huge sign she ain't into you? Just curius

How would you know this?  If she tells you her sexual history, then her oversharing is a red flag... UNLESS it's in the context of "I used to do this, but I kept being hurt so I am learning to take it slower.   

 

Edited September 9, 2024 by basil67

[Gebidozo]

18 minutes ago, fred123 said:

I guess I can sense or feel if she doesn't want to touch or kiss me after a a couple of dates then generally that's not a good sign?

Not necessarily. Some women go slower than that, some faster. People are different.

 

18 minutes ago, fred123 said:

What if you know that the same girl has slept with guys on first dates before? Is that a huge sign she ain't into you? Just curius

Again, not necessarily. It depends on a myriad of other factors besides the degree of attraction. Maybe those guys were more active. Maybe they coerced her. Maybe she was drunk or in a bad mood. Maybe she was just experimenting. Maybe she was hurt and wants to take things slower now. Maybe she just had such a phase. 

 

Edited September 9, 2024 by Gebidozo

[Gaeta]

12 minutes ago, fred123 said:

Yes. 

What variables would u say?

I guess I can sense or feel if she doesn't want to touch or kiss me after a a couple of dates then generally that's not a good sign?

What if you know that the same girl has slept with guys on first dates before? Is that a huge sign she ain't into you? Just curius

With everything said before meeting and now no show of physical attraction it's time to drop her. If l am interested in a man l would never tell him my hookup stories on a 1st date. 

Did you meet her on that sugar daddy app?

[fred123]

9 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

With everything said before meeting and now no show of physical attraction it's time to drop her. If l am interested in a man l would never tell him my hookup stories on a 1st date. 

Did you meet her on that sugar daddy app?

Yes I'm off the app now. Was just a learning experience.

I'm am actively asking questions to.you guys So I can gain confidence.

I do get jealous like i said when these women treat other men better and want to be with them. I just want to be that guy they are into and treat well that's all

 

[fred123]

Just now, fred123 said:

Yes I'm off the app now. Was just a learning experience.

I'm am actively asking questions to.you guys So I can gain confidence.

I do get jealous like i said when these women treat other men better and want to be with them. I just want to be that guy they are into and treat well that's all

 

I'm working on my core beliefs atm

Question- what kind of things are oversharing and a red flag?

[Gaeta]

6 minutes ago, fred123 said:

 

I do get jealous like i said when these women treat other men better and want to be with them. I just want to be that guy they are into and treat well that's all

Because a woman hookups with a guy on first date doesn't mean she treats him better. She probably used them, used their money, and dropped them.

People with good values and character don't treat some people good and then treat some people bad. This woman is not a good person. You should not envy men that got to spend time with her.

[fred123]

12 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

Because a woman hookups with a guy on first date doesn't mean she treats him better. She probably used them, used their money, and dropped them.

People with good values and character don't treat some people good and then treat some people bad. This woman is not a good person. You should not envy men that got to spend time with her.

What about when these women have had ex boyfriends? What about when these women tell me that when they are in a relationship they are very different, they get obsessed about the guy and think about him all the time.  

I feel like s*** when they say these kinda things cos I'm hoping and thinking I wish you were like that with me.

How did u guys react to respond to those comments/thoughts?  I get anxious and jealous personally 

[Gaeta]

21 minutes ago, fred123 said:

How did u guys react to respond to those comments/thoughts?  I get anxious and jealous personally

I react by not dating men talking about how they were with their exs. You don't eliminate these women fast enough so you end up having to listen to their hookup stories.

There is a saying that we attract what we are, Fred are you a gentleman when you speak to these women online? Why do you always pick to talk to the trashy ones?

[basil67]

1 hour ago, fred123 said:

I do get jealous like i said when these women treat other men better and want to be with them. I just want to be that guy they are into and treat well that's all

You've got this backwards. 

If you choose to continue seeing women who treat you well, then you'll be the guy who gets treated well.   If you choose to see continue seeing women you treat you bad, then you'll be the guy who gets treated bad

[basil67]

1 hour ago, fred123 said:

do get jealous like i said when these women treat other men better and want to be with them. I just want to be that guy they are into and treat well that's all

How do you know they treat other men better?   

[Alpacalia]

Because she's lacking in social boundaries, manipulative or simply unaware of appropriate behavior.

Where did you meet her? Online? Is it a sugarbaby website? Given the other threads, I'm genuinely curious because you seem to keep meeting and dating women that you're being asked, (or you're offering) to spend a lot of money on. 🤔

[ExpatInItaly]

3 hours ago, fred123 said:

Yes I'm off the app now. Was just a learning experience.

Okay, so what did you learn from it? 

[Gebidozo]

13 hours ago, fred123 said:

I feel like s*** when they say these kinda things cos I'm hoping and thinking I wish you were like that with me.

Then why do you keep trying to date women who aren’t like that with you?🤔

[Leihla_B]

15 hours ago, fred123 said:

Question to everyone - if you are feeling at any point that the girl isn't into you or interested can you or should you tell them exactly that? 

There's no law against discussing it, but it won't make them like you any better. I'd rather just skip them and move on to find someone better.

16 hours ago, fred123 said:

I don't think it's fair blaming me for why she asks me to these things? Cmon

It's not 'blame' to point out that you stick around for the mistreatment instead of dropping them, and then you're surprised when they do it again?

Doormats DO get stepped on.

[fred123]

1 hour ago, Gebidozo said:

Then why do you keep trying to date women who aren’t like that with you?🤔

I am trying to avoid these women or just not get too emotionally attached to these women.

Maybe I give off a vibe that they can treat me this way.  I'm good guy/gentleman iv been told by many.

I struggle with certain comments as iv said and not sure how to respond or do with that. I guess it makes me feel sad/anxious when they say or do things that show they aren't really feeling me. I get disappointed.

One example of this was that the other woman before we met up we were talking on the phone about valentines day. She had told me that this guy back at home booked dinner and a hotel for her and she booked the concert tickets for that evening. I was telling her that I took this girl to a nice rooftop lunch overlooking barcalano. She was mocking the fact that I took this girl for lunch. I said I actually also took her for dinner and bought her expensive flowers too.  Anyways she was like dinner is better and romantic and seductive.  I was like " ah yes u want to be seduced"

The problem wasn't that I was jealous of this guy perse or knew anything about him or their history.  I did ask at some point later down the line and I was like so what happened with u guys/why u stop dating and she was kinda like " yh it's fine we are all good" she gave me a funny brush off answer that implied it was complicated or maybe the distance was the reason why they don't date. I dunno.

Anyways what annoyed me was the fact that she was trying to say that this guy had booked all these things yet she paid for the concert tickets. Yet she never paid for anything for me.  Should I have pushed her to book something for us then called her out on her hypocrisy?

How would u guys handle this?  

Sorry it's another thing that bugged me

[Gaeta]

1 hour ago, fred123 said:

How would u guys handle this?  

I would handle this by not dating a person like this. 

You don't get it - do you?

AS SOON as someone says or does something hurtful, degrading, negging, YOU DROP THEM.  You don't meet them, don't spend money on them,  you don't point anything to them, you block them and you go talk to the next woman. 

You did not answer my question. Why do you always end up talking to these trashy women? How do you present yourself? What do you tell these women? How do you pick them? Do you spend time looking at their profile? Do you have ANY standards when it comes to meeting a woman?

NOBODY here would have met or continue talking to this woman that asked you to purchase her a vape and ship it to her. How did your brain processed that it was ok to continue talking to her and meeting her?

[balletomane]

Fred, I think your biggest mistake is assuming that these women would act completely differently with other men, and if only you could figure out the 'right' things to say and do, you would have successful relationships with these same women.

It doesn't work like that. Anyone who is asking you to drive her to the airport and buy things for her on Uber Eats when you've met once (if that) is looking only for a partner who will behave like a doormat. She hasn't got a completely different set of morals and good qualities that she turns on and off like a tap depending on how much she likes a guy. That's her character. That's who she is.

If I had to guess why you're attracting women like this, I'd say it's because it's very obvious to them that you'll twist yourself into a pretzel trying to make them want you. A lot of the time, they're right - you spend a lot of money on these women, invite them to celebrate your birthday with you, and don't always stop even when they're being unpleasant to be around and just plain rude.

You need to date women who are more principled and caring. To find them, you need to stop splashing large sums of money around on early dates. I promise you that many women would be uneasy with this and would decide that you weren't right for them. They'd worry that you were either too anxious/emotionally immature to be ready for a relationship, or that you're basically viewing them as an escort whose time can be bought. The only women who would find that behaviour appealing are women who are happy to take advantage.

I also think your idea of what a good healthy relationship looks like is off. I love my husband very much, but I certainly don't spend all my time thinking about him, and I didn't even in the early days of our relationship. A big part of your problem may be that your idea of interested behaviour is actually obsessive behaviour, so you don't realise what genuine interest would look like.

Edited September 9, 2024 by balletomane

[basil67]

5 hours ago, fred123 said:

One example of this was that the other woman before we met up we were talking on the phone about valentines day. She had told me that this guy back at home booked dinner and a hotel for her and she booked the concert tickets for that evening. I was telling her that I took this girl to a nice rooftop lunch overlooking barcalano. She was mocking the fact that I took this girl for lunch. I said I actually also took her for dinner and bought her expensive flowers too.  Anyways she was like dinner is better and romantic and seductive. 

This was before you met up?   I'd handle this by blocking her

Quote

Anyways what annoyed me was the fact that she was trying to say that this guy had booked all these things yet she paid for the concert tickets. Yet she never paid for anything for me.  Should I have pushed her to book something for us then called her out on her hypocrisy?

There's no timeline context in this example.  How long had you been dating at this point vs how long had she been with him?    If you'd been dating three weeks and they'd been together for six months, there's no comparison.   That said, if you feel you're being treated badly, you don't push her or call her out - you simply stop seeing her.   

I'm wondering what's behind your need to confront or call out virtual strangers on their behaviour.  Perhaps you do this with friends too?   Unless you're stuck with someone, save your breath and just leave them in your past.

 

Edited September 9, 2024 by basil67

[Maldives]

On 9/9/2024 at 10:03 AM, fred123 said:

I always doubt myself and also I am scared to say things to the other person.

I don't know of you are allowed to say stuff to someone when you have only been say on a couple of dates 

I really love to know how u guys handle certain situations you encounter

Big sign of a red flag is something just doesn't feel right, something feels off. Having said that last night I thought finally found a good sort went on a date she came to meet me after learning my car was in repairs 1st date. But I made the mistake of overshouting on the date and spent more than I wanted. She didn't stop me lol and I guess that's where it didn't feel right for me but totally my fault there. Sometimes I get the impression and I don't want to put labels on things but lots of woman are just looking for a easy ride and financials in a man. I don't like it because it's my hard earned money especially if they don't reciprocate the effort. I thought she would have  been mindful of the cost but nope I asked she ordered. Live and learn I'll be more aware next time. Probably went over board as it was a 1st date and I hadn't been on a date for ages. 

And then there's that thing Chivalry. So, if we're conservative with our money were labelled cheap and things like that yet they haven't put there hand in there pocket.

Edited September 10, 2024 by Goodguy05

[Gebidozo]

7 hours ago, fred123 said:

Maybe I give off a vibe that they can treat me this way.  I'm good guy/gentleman iv been told by many.

Yes, you do give off that vibe, because you do let them treat you that way. But please don’t confuse that with being a good guy and a gentleman. Swallowing insults from a woman isn’t goodness, it’s insecurity and neediness. Blowing wads of money on a woman you just met isn’t goodness, it’s an attempt to buy affection stemming from despair and loneliness. And getting a woman drunk in order to have sex with her isn’t being a gentleman at all.

Whatever else you deduce from our comments here, please don’t make the conclusion that you’re “too nice” and women don’t like you because they “like bad guys”. That’s a dumb lie invented by petty, envious men. Being a doormat has zero to do with goodness and everything to do with lack of respect to yourself and to the woman.

By selecting woman who disrespect you, you’re disrespecting women in general. Because the sentiment behind that is “I don’t care which woman I get, as long as I get any”. Repeatedly eating junk food won’t bring you closer to gourmet circles. Listening to Kenny G or songs from “La La Land” won’t make you a connoisseur of jazz. 

[basil67]

29 minutes ago, Goodguy05 said:

Big sign of a red flag is something just doesn't feel right, something feels off. Having said that last night I thought finally found a good sort went on a date she came to meet me after learning my car was in repairs 1st date. But I made the mistake of overshouting on the date and spent more than I wanted. She didn't stop me lol and I guess that's where it didn't feel right for me but totally my fault there. Sometimes I get the impression and I don't want to put labels on things but lots of woman are just looking for a easy ride and financials in a man. I don't like it because it's my hard earned money especially if they don't reciprocate the effort. I thought she would have  been mindful of the cost but nope I asked she ordered. Live and learn I'll be more aware next time. Probably went over board as it was a 1st date and I hadn't been on a date for ages. 

And then there's that thing Chivalry. So, if we're conservative with our money were labelled cheap and things like that yet they haven't put there hand in there pocket.

To be fair, if you're choosing a place which has expensive menu options, it's not unreasonable of her to believe you'd be comfortable with that cost.  Though if it were me, I'd read the room by chatting about the menu and seeing what price range food he's ordering.    

For a first date, choose a cheap and cheerful venue.  Perhaps the local Indian or Thai where you can bring your own wine.  Or a pizza place.  Or a counter meal at the pub.  I think this would be fine for any date, especially while you're still getting to know each other.  

Also, chivalry has nothing to do with how much you spend.  Rather, chivalry is about honorable behaviour and helping when needed.   

Edited September 10, 2024 by basil67

[Gebidozo]

7 hours ago, fred123 said:

How would u guys handle this?  

Simple, I would immediately stop dating such a woman.

Why do you keep asking questions the answers to which are so obvious?

[Gebidozo]

6 hours ago, balletomane said:

A big part of your problem may be that your idea of interested behaviour is actually obsessive behaviour, so you don't realise what genuine interest would look like.

Well said.

The OP isn’t interested in those women. He just wants to date someone, have sex with someone. That’s not interest, that’s neediness. Obviously, women around the OP know that. The “bad” ones exploit it for financial profit or to fill their own loneliness for a while. The good ones don’t even notice the OP, and for a good reason.

[basil67]

7 hours ago, fred123 said:

Maybe I give off a vibe that they can treat me this way.  I'm good guy/gentleman iv been told by many.

These two things are totally unrelated.  A guy can be a good guy/gentleman and still not be taken advantage of

I would say it's more about being desperate: