My (31M) girlfriend (27F) wants a prenup, but I don't

[alexkerr]

My girlfriend and I have been together for a year. To give some background, I got divorced after a 10 year relationship and met my girlfriend a few months after so she came at the perfect time. She is everything I could ask for, beautiful, smart, funny, caring, and adventurous. All my family and friends love her and always tell me to never screw it up because they like her so much and see how happy she makes me. 

I'm a software developer so I make good money (low six figures) but my girlfriend makes significantly more than me because she's a doctor (around 3x my salary). She is very ambitious and is looking to start her own business and has multiple income streams as she has real estate and invests her money in the stock market. She also has family wealth (her parents are also doctors and are millionaires from real estate and their own businesses/investments). I don't have any family money to speak of because I grew up middle class. At first I was intimidated by this because in my previous relationship I was the provider, but now it's nice to know that everything doesn't fall on my shoulders and that she can hold it down if something were to happen to me and my job. I never had this type of security before and it feels nice to be treated (my ex never contributed financially and never even bought me gifts). 

We've been talking about marriage and she sprung the idea of a prenup to me and I got offended. I didn't have a prenup with my ex but she didn't take anything from me. I expressed to my girlfriend that I felt like she didn't trust me and that it was an easy way out for her to leave me if she got tired of the marriage in the future. I already am divorced and don't want to have to go through that again because my partner doesn't want to work on the marriage with me. She dropped it but then has been bringing it up again, we got into an argument and she said I was being suspicious because if I truly loved her for her, she doesn't understand why I won't just sign it. 

I understand that she comes in with significantly more wealth and assets than I do. But if we were to get divorced, I don't have any financial security (aside from my parents) and I feel like it would screw me over. She now has doubts about the relationship and feels like I have hidden motives for wanting to marry her. I also feel like she's going into the marriage with this idea of having separate finances (such as separate bank accounts) but in marriage I feel like everything should be shared because it's a partnership. Am I wrong for feeling this way and are my concerns valid? 

[Acacia98]

1 hour ago, alexkerr said:

My girlfriend and I have been together for a year. To give some background, I got divorced after a 10 year relationship and met my girlfriend a few months after so she came at the perfect time. She is everything I could ask for, beautiful, smart, funny, caring, and adventurous. All my family and friends love her and always tell me to never screw it up because they like her so much and see how happy she makes me. 

I'm a software developer so I make good money (low six figures) but my girlfriend makes significantly more than me because she's a doctor (around 3x my salary). She is very ambitious and is looking to start her own business and has multiple income streams as she has real estate and invests her money in the stock market. She also has family wealth (her parents are also doctors and are millionaires from real estate and their own businesses/investments). I don't have any family money to speak of because I grew up middle class. At first I was intimidated by this because in my previous relationship I was the provider, but now it's nice to know that everything doesn't fall on my shoulders and that she can hold it down if something were to happen to me and my job. I never had this type of security before and it feels nice to be treated (my ex never contributed financially and never even bought me gifts). 

We've been talking about marriage and she sprung the idea of a prenup to me and I got offended. I didn't have a prenup with my ex but she didn't take anything from me. I expressed to my girlfriend that I felt like she didn't trust me and that it was an easy way out for her to leave me if she got tired of the marriage in the future. I already am divorced and don't want to have to go through that again because my partner doesn't want to work on the marriage with me. She dropped it but then has been bringing it up again, we got into an argument and she said I was being suspicious because if I truly loved her for her, she doesn't understand why I won't just sign it. 

I understand that she comes in with significantly more wealth and assets than I do. But if we were to get divorced, I don't have any financial security (aside from my parents) and I feel like it would screw me over. She now has doubts about the relationship and feels like I have hidden motives for wanting to marry her. I also feel like she's going into the marriage with this idea of having separate finances (such as separate bank accounts) but in marriage I feel like everything should be shared because it's a partnership. Am I wrong for feeling this way and are my concerns valid? 

If this is a hill that you must die on, you're incompatible.

If, however, you are open to considering the possibilities open to you, then you should make the effort to learn why people get prenups and what a prenup between the two of you might look like if each of you was represented by a lawyer who had your best interests in mind. Take the time to do the research and consult a lawyer so that, when you ultimately decide what to do, your decision is based on facts.

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, alexkerr said:

To give some background, I got divorced after a 10 year relationship

If you’ve been divorced, you should know the important of a pre-nup/cohabitation agreement - whatever you want to call it. 

I would not marry you/the relationship would end without an agreement. I would hope that she stands her ground because what she is requesting is the financially responsible thing to do. You are making an emotional decision and that’s not a good plan…

Edited September 11 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, alexkerr said:

I also feel like she's going into the marriage with this idea of having separate finances (such as separate bank accounts) but in marriage I feel like everything should be shared because it's a partnership.

Everything will be shared that is acquired during the partnership/marriage. But previously acquired, individual assets will be separate, which depending on where you live, may be law even without an agreement. The agreement makes everything easier if/when one of you were to pass away or the relationship was to end. 

We have an agreement, having both brought assets to the relationship and because we both have children/beneficiaries separately. We have separate accounts but one shared account into which we both deposit money to pay the shared expenses (ie. mortgage, bills, household expenses). 

My point being, it’s not all or nothing. 

Edited September 11 by BaileyB

[alexkerr]

5 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Everything will be shared that is acquired during the partnership/marriage. But previously acquired, individual assets will be separate, which depending on where you live, may be law even without an agreement. The agreement makes everything easier if/when one of you were to pass away or the relationship was to end. 

We have an agreement, having both brought assets to the relationship and because we both have children/beneficiaries separately. We have separate accounts but one shared account into which we both deposit money to pay the shared expenses (ie. mortgage, bills, household expenses). 

My point being, it’s not all or nothing. 

So the prenup only covers what she comes into the marriage with, it doesn't count what she makes or acquires during the marriage? 

[BaileyB]

1 minute ago, alexkerr said:

So the prenup only covers what she comes into the marriage with, it doesn't count what she makes or acquires during the marriage? 

A lawyer could tell you more, but the pre-nup cohabitation agreement should cover everything. Ie. That assets acquired prior to the relationship are individual, that assets acquired during the marriage are shared, and what will happen in the event of divorce/separation or death. There is existing law around a lot of this that you should educate yourself about, because it will guide the creation of the document and may even affect your relationship without a legal agreement. An agreement provides protection and clarification in the event of death or divorce. 

[Leihla_B]

No two prenups are the same unless they're a boilerplate purchased from an office supply store. So before taking offense, I'd want to review the agreement. You wouldn't necessarily need to sign it as it stands, your attorney can help to pinpoint changes for negotiation.

The agreement may contain certain protections for you that her family can't dispute, or certain percentages of her family wealth to be distributed to her siblings should anything happen to her. There may be a tier of the length of time you are married that entitle you to claim increasing levels of support after a divorce, and clarifications about what portions of her wealth are considered marital assets and which are not.

You might find the agreement entirely agreeable. So don't make the mistake of 'contempt prior to investigation'. Learn what, exactly, you are fighting ABOUT.

Edited September 11 by Leihla_B

[Els]

8 hours ago, alexkerr said:

understand that she comes in with significantly more wealth and assets than I do. But if we were to get divorced, I don't have any financial security (aside from my parents) and I feel like it would screw me over.

You'll want to speak to a lawyer about this as it depends on your jurisdiction, but AFAIK prenups can't override laws for child support, spousal support, or division of assets acquired DURING the marriage. They only affect division of assets acquired BEFORE the marriage. This is an important distinction to make. It sounds like you haven't even spoken to a lawyer, so that should be your first stop.

Also, in your position, I'm not sure exactly what you are afraid of re: financial security? Most people in 6-figure jobs will do just fine for themselves. Are the two of you intending for you to quit your job and be a SAHD if you have kids? If you are, then that should definitely be considered and accounted for (but again, in many jurisdictions a prenup cannot overwrite the SAHP's right to support).

Quote

I also feel like she's going into the marriage with this idea of having separate finances (such as separate bank accounts) but in marriage I feel like everything should be shared because it's a partnership.

It's very common (and IMO sensible) advice for women to have at least one bank account that only they can access, in the event that they need to use it to leave a dangerous situation. This is usually in addition to other shared accounts. If you want to, you should be entitled to one for yourself as well. Have the two of you talked about this yet or are you just assuming based on the prenup?

Edited September 11 by Els

[S2B]

Think about if you were in her position. You’ve also already been divorced once.

she should be capable of keeping her family wealth as her own - IF she chooses to do so.

since you have had such an extreme reaction to the suggestion - she likely thinks you have other motives.

given her career and length of schooling to get where she is - and money in the family - I think she is smart to suggest a prenup.

but we don’t even know what that prenup would entail.

why don’t you ask her what that would look like?

why wouldn’t she be able to keep some of what she has been working so long to herself? What would you expect and agree to in order to marry her? Be specific.

any commingled money is at risk is being shared - how would you both plan to keep money separate?

[FMW]

9 hours ago, alexkerr said:

But if we were to get divorced, I don't have any financial security (aside from my parents) and I feel like it would screw me over. 

How would agreeing not to try to receive a share of her wealth prior to meeting you screw you over? That's a serious question, I'm curious what you're thinking.

If you divorced, you would still have what was yours prior to the marriage and 1/2 of whatever you gain/build together.  This is not a relationship in which you worked and supported her in her career development or played a part in her current financial status.  Your financial security would be tied to your own work and management of the money you earn.  Not continuing to be kept in the manner to which you become accustomed in the relationship by not having access to her wealth, if you divorced, isn't being screwed over, in my estimation.  It would be reasonable for her to suspect your motivations if you refuse to agree.

[alexkerr]

1 hour ago, Els said:

Also, in your position, I'm not sure exactly what you are afraid of re: financial security? Most people in 6-figure jobs will do just fine for themselves. Are the two of you intending for you to quit your job and be a SAHD if you have kids? If you are, then that should definitely be considered and accounted for (but again, in many jurisdictions a prenup cannot overwrite the SAHP's right to support).

We both agreed not to have kids but she makes significantly more than me and contributes to most of the bills, so it wouldn't be fair for me to give up that standard of living if we were to divorce. And my job is stressful so if I were to quit and live off her income for a while, her divorcing me with the prenup would screw me. 

[alexkerr]

11 minutes ago, FMW said:

How would agreeing not to try to receive a share of her wealth prior to meeting you screw you over? That's a serious question, I'm curious what you're thinking.

If you divorced, you would still have what was yours prior to the marriage and 1/2 of whatever you gain/build together.  This is not a relationship in which you worked and supported her in her career development or played a part in her current financial status.  Your financial security would be tied to your own work and management of the money you earn.  Not continuing to be kept in the manner to which you become accustomed in the relationship by not having access to her wealth, if you divorced, isn't being screwed over, in my estimation.  It would be reasonable for her to suspect your motivations if you refuse to agree.

My point is that it's an easy out for her to leave the marriage. My ex didn't even want to try marriage counseling or therapy and I don't want to have to go through another divorce because my partner doesn't want to work on the marriage. If we have a prenup I feel like there's no deterrant for her to leave and she can just leave for a stupid reason (e.g. she got bored). 

[basil67]

5 minutes ago, alexkerr said:

And my job is stressful so if I were to quit and live off her income for a while, her divorcing me with the prenup would screw me. 

Has she agreed to supporting you?  If so, your lawyer would make sure this goes into the prenup

Thing is, if she was to give you a prenup, you take it to your lawyer to review and you respond to anything you think may be unfair.  

[alexkerr]

Just now, basil67 said:

Has she agreed to supporting you?  If so, your lawyer would make sure this goes into the prenup

Thing is, if she was to give you a prenup, you take it to your lawyer to review and you respond to anything you think may be unfair.  

She didn't agree specifically but if I were to lose my job or quit due to stress, her money gives me security for a while and if we're married that's what she would likely do. 

[basil67]

8 minutes ago, alexkerr said:

She didn't agree specifically but if I were to lose my job or quit due to stress, her money gives me security for a while and if we're married that's what she would likely do. 

I would never have asked my husband to support me if I just up and quit my job.  And I'd never support a partner who had done the same.   And this is one of the things about a prenup, it shows up if someone would consider leeching off us.  If your job is stressful, you find a new job then give notice and quit your old job.

 

[S2B]

32 minutes ago, alexkerr said:

My point is that it's an easy out for her to leave the marriage. My ex didn't even want to try marriage counseling or therapy and I don't want to have to go through another divorce because my partner doesn't want to work on the marriage. If we have a prenup I feel like there's no deterrant for her to leave and she can just leave for a stupid reason (e.g. she got bored). 

Deterrent? It sounds like you don’t have much faith in marrying her.

dont marry her . Just live together. 
you agreed to no kids - so why marry?

[S2B]

She really doesn’t owe you financial security. You owe that to YOURSELF.

make your own money and keep it separate. Contribute 50/50 to household expenses.

[basil67]

34 minutes ago, alexkerr said:

My point is that it's an easy out for her to leave the marriage. My ex didn't even want to try marriage counseling or therapy and I don't want to have to go through another divorce because my partner doesn't want to work on the marriage. If we have a prenup I feel like there's no deterrant for her to leave and she can just leave for a stupid reason (e.g. she got bored). 

On the flipside, if there's a prenup which is very generous to you, it could be argued that there's no incentive for you to work on the marriage. 

[Gaeta]

4 hours ago, alexkerr said:

so it wouldn't be fair for me to give up that standard of living

You sound like a guy who hit the jackpot and wants to milk it for all it's worth.

You want to be protected in case of divorce? Then take the prenup. If you don't have a marriage contract you will get close to nothing. She's doing you a favor.

I can assure you all of her wealth and family wealth are protected in Trusts and you will never be the beneficiary of those Trusts, not even marriage gives you access to those.

You think her family don't have shark lawyers that would undress you naked in case of divorce without a prenup? Take the prenup. I'm sure she plans on being generous if you divorce.

[semble]

18 hours ago, alexkerr said:

I understand that she comes in with significantly more wealth and assets than I do. But if we were to get divorced, I don't have any financial security (aside from my parents) and I feel like it would screw me over.

Of course you don't want a pre-nup, you're looking at your wealthy fiancee as your financial security blanket for the rest of your natural life. If things go south, you want your "fair share". Well the truth is, your fair share is what you bring into and contribute during the marriage and not a penny more.

She's entitled to keep her share of the assets she had coming in to the marriage and you keep yours. Especially given that youre an older couple with no kids and accumulated assets, and you've been divorced already so you know that "lifelong commitment" is meaningless.

Half of marriages fail, more than half of subsequent marriages fail, so the odds are against you from the starting gate.

If I was her I'd kick your unreasonable insecure whining ass to the curb and not look back.

 

[alexkerr]

23 minutes ago, semble said:

Of course you don't want a pre-nup, you're looking at your wealthy fiancee as your financial security blanket for the rest of your natural life. If things go south, you want your "fair share". Well the truth is, your fair share is what you bring into and contribute during the marriage and not a penny more.

She's entitled to keep her share of the assets she had coming in to the marriage and you keep yours. Especially given that youre an older couple with no kids and accumulated assets, and you've been divorced already so you know that "lifelong commitment" is meaningless.

Half of marriages fail, more than half of subsequent marriages fail, so the odds are against you from the starting gate.

If I was her I'd kick your unreasonable insecure whining ass to the curb and not look back.

 

I thank thats unreasonable to say and rude. The prenup seems like she already has one foot out the door and it’s offensive that she thinks I would steal everything from her. Yes, she gives me financial security but I’m not with her for that. I would do the same for her if it was necessary. 

[alexkerr]

4 hours ago, Gaeta said:

You sound like a guy who hit the jackpot and wants to milk it for all it's worth.

You want to be protected in case of divorce? Then take the prenup. If you don't have a marriage contract you will get close to nothing. She's doing you a favor.

I can assure you all of her wealth and family wealth are protected in Trusts and you will never be the beneficiary of those Trusts, not even marriage gives you access to those.

You think her family don't have shark lawyers that would undress you naked in case of divorce without a prenup? Take the prenup. I'm sure she plans on being generous if you divorce.

It’s obviously in her favor though. I dont have any assets to protect and she does. So its onesided

[semble]

1 hour ago, alexkerr said:

It’s obviously in her favor though. I dont have any assets to protect and she does. So its onesided

Her assets belong to her. Not her fault you've got less money and assets than she does.

You're under this misguided belief that just because you exchange a few vows you get the right to reach into her pockets.

She says you don't and that's reasonable. Either accept it or find someone else to marry that will be rich like her and be more than happy to guarantee that you'll get half her assets if you divorce, which is not beyond the realm of possibility, especially given your rather skewed view on this particular topic.

 

Edited to add. Let me give you my personal experience. I married my now exwife just as I graduated medical school. We were together 18 years, had 2 kids, when we divorced she got a boatload of money. And she deserved it, she raised my kids, gave up a career in nursing, I was the primary breadwinner for the better part of 2 decades.

When I recently got married, to a woman that is in very good financial shape, but with about a third of my net worth, I told her that I don't want to "be on the hook" some day if things don't work out. She happily signed on the dotted line. What's hers, is hers, and what's mine, is mine. Any joint contributions and acquired assets during the marriage will be split evenly in the event of a divorce. I don't see it happening but I'm realistic, more second marriages fail than those that remain intact.

If my wife had an issue with it, I never would have signed the marriage certificate. Your fiancee is spot on, and you're out in left field and even worse you've dug yourself in and refuse to budge. I see serous problems for you going forward if you maintain this level of stubborn and closemindedness.

Edited September 12 by semble

[semble]

1 hour ago, alexkerr said:

.The prenup seems like she already has one foot out the door and it’s offensive that she thinks I would steal everything from her. Yes, she gives me financial security but I’m not with her for that. I would do the same for her if it was necessary. 

Ha, that's funny. You already said in the event of a divorce you want her to financially support you. Whether you call it "stealing" or "leeching off" it's no different. Easy for you to say you'd "give her financial security" when that's impossible.

Prenups are realistic. Marriages fail. To say she's got one foot out the door is ridiculous.

The more of your posts I read the more I think she's a really smart woman, you've probably given her ample cause for concern.

[alexkerr]

2 hours ago, semble said:

Ha, that's funny. You already said in the event of a divorce you want her to financially support you. Whether you call it "stealing" or "leeching off" it's no different. Easy for you to say you'd "give her financial security" when that's impossible.

Prenups are realistic. Marriages fail. To say she's got one foot out the door is ridiculous.

The more of your posts I read the more I think she's a really smart woman, you've probably given her ample cause for concern.

Just for info I’m a software engineer and I make six figures and own a house so I’m not a bum or “leech”. She lives in another city in her own house and we discussed that I would move in with her and I sell my house or rent it out when married. IF we were to get divorced (which would be her choice, because I will never leave her and will work on our issues), I wouldn’t be able to buy back a house right away and would probably need some help with this. Again, as I mentioned in this post, without her help in this situation I would have to move back in with my parents for a while. 
 

I don’t intend on leaving her as I said. But if we are married and she is making significantly more than me the “50:50” arrangement doesn’t make sense because not only does she make 3x my income, but her family has a lot of wealth. 
 

Also, people accusing me of using her for money: would you date or marry someone who was financial irresponsible and broke? Honestly? 
 

I want someone who’s able to hold it down if needed. I shouldnt always he expected to just because I’m the man.