My (31M) girlfriend (27F) wants a prenup, but I don't

[Gaeta]

4 hours ago, alexkerr said:

It’s obviously in her favor though. I dont have any assets to protect and she does. So its onesided

Have you read the prenup? If not how can you tell it's not generous?

[Gaeta]

4 minutes ago, alexkerr said:

IF we were to get divorced (which would be her choice, because I will never leave her and will work on our issues), I wouldn’t be able to buy back a house right away and would probably need some help with this. Again, as I mentioned in this post, without her help in this situation I would have to move back in with my parents for a while. 

First if you think you can never divorce you are pretty naive for a man in your 40s. It takes 2 to work on a marriage and if she gets tired of you - you're out.

A prenup is there to also protect you. I am sure she's not leaving you in the street in case of divorce. 

If you make 6 figure a year and you'd need to move back with your mom then you're the one with problem managing your earning.

Where did she say you'd have to pay 50/50 of your living cost??

[alexkerr]

14 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

Have you read the prenup? If not how can you tell it's not generous?

I haven't read it because there's not one drafted yet. We aren't engaged yet but the topic of a prenup came up after I brought up getting married recently. Basically what she is suggesting is that her assets (money, properties, investments) coming into the marriage are off-limits to me in the case of divorce. She also wants to protect her future inheritance from her family which (I didn't ask) but is very likely in the 5-10 million range. She's also saying in the case of divorce that she wants to be prevented from paying me alimony especially since we agreed to not have kids. 

Again, I have no family money to speak of and haven't really gotten into investing my money. My ex-wife only worked minimum wage jobs so she was always draining my bank account and I was never able to save. So I feel like I don't necessarily have anything to protect. 

[alexkerr]

11 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

First if you think you can never divorce you are pretty naive for a man in your 40s. It takes 2 to work on a marriage and if she gets tired of you - you're out.

A prenup is there to also protect you. I am sure she's not leaving you in the street in case of divorce. 

If you make 6 figure a year and you'd need to move back with your mom then you're the one with problem managing your earning.

Where did she say you'd have to pay 50/50 of your living cost??

She never said that I have to pay 50/50. In our current relationship she pays for our dates most of the time and has contributed more to gifts for our friends/family during holidays and birthdays etc. She also pays for our vacations. That is the extent of that because we aren't living together so we aren't necessarily splitting bills. 

[semble]

You came here seeking validation and guess what? You're not going to get it. 

For her sake I hope she holds firm, in which case your resentment will permeate the marriage like a sore that never heals and you'll ultimately divorce anyway. 

[Gaeta]

You're an adult man earning above what people earn on average. Sell your property and invest your profit. When living with her continue investing a part of your earning. 

There should be something for you in there to help you get setup else where if you divorce. That's all.

[alexkerr]

I appreciate everyone's input and points, and I do see my girlfriend's point of view in this in wanting to protect her family wealth. I guess I got overly emotional at first and took it as an attack thinking that she would screw me over financially in a divorce or that she doesn't trust me. I would sign the prenup if it meant I would lose her if I didn't. 

I just don't want to go through another divorce again and I don't want my girlfriend to use the prenup as ammunition in arguments that we would have in the future (e.g. "I can leave this marriage if I want because I got a prenup so I don't owe you anything). My ex used to always threaten divorce during arguments and I know that if we had gotten a prenup that would have been extra ammo for her to use and I just don't want to be put in that position. 

I won't lie that it feels nice to have someone provide and contribute to the relationship financially because in my previous marriage I was always stressed if I lost my job because everything would fall apart as my ex didn't make money. I would never be malicious and steal my ex's money, I just wouldn't want to be screwed over in the example that I lost my job and she decided to divorce me and I'm left homeless. I know it's an extreme example but still. 

I agree that women (and men) should have their own money to keep their own independence but I also don't want to feel divided in our finances. I think that when a couple is married, what's hers is mine and what's mine is hers because that's what it's all about. Especially if we built those assets up together while married, which I think is reasonable. 

[BaileyB]

15 hours ago, alexkerr said:

My point is that it's an easy out for her to leave the marriage.

She can decide to leave the marriage at any time. If that was to happen, the law would guide the division of assets acquired prior to the marriage. You are actually entitled to NOTHING that was acquired individually prior to the marriage.

Not sure where you get this idea that she should support you if ever you quit your job or maintain your standard of living post divorce. Not many people keep the same standard of living post divorce…

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, alexkerr said:

My ex used to always threaten divorce during arguments and I know that if we had gotten a prenup that would have been extra ammo for her to use and I just don't want to be put in that position. 

I won't lie that it feels nice to have someone provide and contribute to the relationship financially because in my previous marriage I was always stressed if I lost my job because everything would fall apart as my ex didn't make money.

Now we know where this anxiety and these thoughts come from… but honestly, if you had an agreement it may not stop her from threatening divorce. If you have a good partner, someone who is contributing and sharing the burden with you, that is not affected by the presence or absence of a prenuptial agreement. Either is she is a good partner to you or she is not - 
 

1 hour ago, alexkerr said:

ey, I just wouldn't want to be screwed over in the example that I lost my job and she decided to divorce me and I'm left homeless.

Respectfully, you need to stop saying “screwed over.” That phrase suggests an air of entitlement - that somehow, you are entitled to her personal finances and that’s simply not true. As your partner, if she is a good partner, she will support the family until you can find yourself another job. Thats what good people do. But, the expectations should be that you are going to find another job. And, if you divorce, the expectation should be that you are going to continue to work and find a way to support yourself… I understand your anxiety, times are stressful and you’ve had some bad experiences in your marriage… my advice, don’t let your fear, and anxiety, and ignorance wreck your current relationship. 

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, alexkerr said:

Basically what she is suggesting is that her assets (money, properties, investments) coming into the marriage are off-limits to me in the case of divorce.

My understanding is that this is standard. 

 

2 hours ago, alexkerr said:

She also wants to protect her future inheritance from her family which (I didn't ask) but is very likely in the 5-10 million range.

Also standard. Unless she invests her inheritance in a joint asset (ie. she used her inheritance to purchase a home in which the two of you lived), her inheritance is her inheritance. 
 

2 hours ago, alexkerr said:

My ex-wife only worked minimum wage jobs so she was always draining my bank account and I was never able to save. So I feel like I don't necessarily have anything to protect. 

Can you appreciate that you have now in some ways become your ex-wife, to your current partner. You make a good income, and yet here you are with your hand out… expecting her to pay your bills, and finance your vacations… worried that you are not going to get your share - that you will be “screwed” out of assets that she holds. 

But, I see why the idea of a pre-nup is threatening to you. When you have the expectation that you are entitled to her wealth, this would be very threatening indeed. 

And that would be the reason why I would require a pre-nup before moving in or getting married. 

Edited September 12 by BaileyB

[semble]

1 hour ago, BaileyB said:

Respectfully, you need to stop saying “screwed over.” That phrase suggests an air of entitlement 

I was going to reply to that specific part of your latest post as well and say basically the same thing. Even though you've lightened up a bit you still don't get it. 
 

In the event of divorce she doesn't owe you a penny over and above your share of the joint marital assets, defined as anything you both contributed during the marriage, and that might not be subject to 50/50 split. It's based on the pro-rata share based on the percentage contributed. 
 

Your wife is not responsible for supporting you and if you get to the point that she wants out, the pre-nup makes it faster and easier. It doesn't mean she wouldn't have left if there was no pre-nup, that's more aberrant thinking. 

[Gaeta]

To me, you don't sound ready to remarry. You don't even sound ready to enter a serious relationship. You associate everything to your ex-wife and that's a sign you did not processed things through yet. You met this new woman you were barely out of your marriage. You're only 31 years old. It's insane to be talking marriage. 

[Leihla_B]

On 9/11/2024 at 7:29 AM, alexkerr said:

I also feel like she's going into the marriage with this idea of having separate finances (such as separate bank accounts) but in marriage I feel like everything should be shared because it's a partnership. Am I wrong for feeling this way and are my concerns valid? 

The most successful strategy for couples in handling money, regardless of wealth, is the 3 account method--His, Hers and Ours. They create a budget for the Ours account including all shared expenses, savings and investments. They find the amount to deposit into this account each month, each contributing a percentage according to the difference in their income. The remainder each month after these contributions are satisfied goes into the account of the earner to be saved or spent as the earner wishes.

This method benefits you, because you pay a smaller percentage, and you can sock away a lot of money. This also avoids fights over spending, because each partner has disposable income rather than needing approval from the other for every purchase.

You're harming your relationship by quibbling about an agreement you haven't even seen yet. You might be surprised by how much it can protect YOU against her wealthy family. I'd tell her I'm willing to consider it. Ask her to have it drawn up, and then review it with an attorney of your choice. He or she can explain which clauses are standard, which ones harm or protect you, and which he or she would modify. Modifications are typical in these things.

Whining about the 'idea' of this before you even understand it does not serve you. Have you noticed? 

[semble]

1 hour ago, Leihla_B said:

 You might be surprised by how much it can protect YOU against her wealthy family. 

Nah. Prenups protect the wealthier party. 

[Els]

20 hours ago, alexkerr said:

We both agreed not to have kids but she makes significantly more than me and contributes to most of the bills, so it wouldn't be fair for me to give up that standard of living if we were to divorce. And my job is stressful so if I were to quit and live off her income for a while, her divorcing me with the prenup would screw me. 

Sorry, but that's an incredibly suspicious reason. Reading this, I'm not at all surprised she's trying to protect herself.

Quote

Again, as I mentioned in this post, without her help in this situation I would have to move back in with my parents for a while. 

Huh? You make 6 figures and she pays most of the bills. How on earth do have you not saved a very significant nest egg to fall back on? Are you irresponsible with your money in general?

[Els]

6 hours ago, alexkerr said:

My ex used to always threaten divorce during arguments and I know that if we had gotten a prenup that would have been extra ammo for her to use and I just don't want to be put in that position. 

So... your lower income ex used to threaten divorce during arguments without a prenup and you think she would have done it more with a prenup... therefore you somehow think that having a prenup will make your higher income spouse less likely to threaten divorce? Want to go through the logic involved in your thought processes here?

Edited September 12 by Els

[Lotsgoingon]

On 9/11/2024 at 7:29 AM, alexkerr said:

 She is everything I could ask for, beautiful, smart, funny, caring, and adventurous. All my family and friends love her and always tell me to never screw it up because they like her so much and see how happy she makes me. 

Your description of your relationship with your gf sounds like a teenager with a crush. The description is juvenile, immature. You're living in a fantasy land. You aren't ready to be discussing marriage with her until you get more realistic. And btw: NO ONE can "make" us happy. No one! 

Apparently the prenup is the first real disagreement-fight you guys have had. GOOD!!!!!!   The prenup discussion is healthy because it's forcing you out of teenager "make me happy" fantasy land. All your friends and family love her. Back up! They do NOT "love" her. They think she is pleasant to be around. And around them so far you two SEEM to get along well. Friends, even close friends, can be thoroughly ignorant about the real dynamic between a couple. 

Putting aside the prenup, where do you and she disagree? Where do you have different styles? Different values? You aren't ready to be married until you can identify where in the marriage there is likely to be conflict. Every marriage has conflict and annoyance. The key is learning how to negotiate and manage those conflicts and one way to help yourself is to anticipate the conflicts. 

Now, your response to her prenup is also immature. A prenup can be generous or less generous for the person who is less wealthy. Also prenups can have time line/sunset provision--as in this agreement expires after 10 years or 15 years and so on. 

You need to go see a lawyer about prenups. A good divorce attorney or family attorney will actually help you with the details and the psychology of prenups. 

That you are so surprised by her prenup idea tells me that you guys are not anywhere close to being ready for marriage. 

 

 

 

 

[semble]

49 minutes ago, Els said:

So... your lower income ex used to threaten divorce during arguments without a prenup and you think she would have done it more with a prenup... therefore you somehow think that having a prenup will make your higher income spouse less likely to threaten divorce? Want to go through the logic involved in your thought processes here?

It's not about the logic but yes his rather warped logic works if you go about it the right way. Your mistake is comparing his lesser monied ex to his higher monied future wife. When you really need to compare him in his prior marriage to his spouse in the pending marriage. 

[bpb2017]

23 hours ago, alexkerr said:

If we have a prenup I feel like there's no deterrant for her to leave and she can just leave for a stupid reason (e.g. she got bored). 

Why should there be a deterrent to leave a marriage?

Your gf is smart and doing the right thing.

It sounds like you guys haven't gone to a lawyer but I can tell you that prenups are relatively excellent value for money. Even lawyers that handle mega-million dollar divorces with obscene fees usually do not charge more than $3k for a well done prenup. I'm sure you can find a good one that do it for a lot less.

If you were hoping to marry your gf for the money then it seems you have not lucked out.

Edited September 12 by bpb2017

[Leihla_B]

4 hours ago, semble said:

Nah. Prenups protect the wealthier party. 

While they're designed to protect certain assets of the wealthier person, they also need to offer something of value to the other if they want 'an agreement'. In some cases it's peppered with plenty of incentives to the other just to protect something specific that matters to their family. It's all about negotiation. If it's a my-way-or-the-highway document, then that tells you all you'd need to know about what the marriage would be like in the first place--so THAT can be a blessing in disguise.

Read the document. Operate on real information rather than emotions alone.

[basil67]

10 hours ago, alexkerr said:

Basically what she is suggesting is that her assets (money, properties, investments) coming into the marriage are off-limits to me in the case of divorce. She also wants to protect her future inheritance from her family which (I didn't ask) but is very likely in the 5-10 million range. She's also saying in the case of divorce that she wants to be prevented from paying me alimony especially since we agreed to not have kids. 

My non legal opinion is that this sounds entirely fair.  Your lawyer may also suggest some protections for you, such as in the case of her ending the marriage she would provide you $x amount so that you could find a new place to live straight away pending the financial settlement

[IrinaM]

18 hours ago, alexkerr said:

I want someone who’s able to hold it down if needed. I shouldnt always he expected to just because I’m the man. 

Some people feel differently though. I think your girlfriend is wise to protect her interests.

[alexkerr]

17 hours ago, BaileyB said:

My understanding is that this is standard. 

 

Also standard. Unless she invests her inheritance in a joint asset (ie. she used her inheritance to purchase a home in which the two of you lived), her inheritance is her inheritance. 
 

Can you appreciate that you have now in some ways become your ex-wife, to your current partner. You make a good income, and yet here you are with your hand out… expecting her to pay your bills, and finance your vacations… worried that you are not going to get your share - that you will be “screwed” out of assets that she holds. 

But, I see why the idea of a pre-nup is threatening to you. When you have the expectation that you are entitled to her wealth, this would be very threatening indeed. 

And that would be the reason why I would require a pre-nup before moving in or getting married. 

How would it be fair though if her parents passed away and she got her inheritance money and just kept it all to herself? I'm not saying I want her to buy me crazy expensive things at all. But I'm saying that it wouldn't really make sense for me to be paying for everything if she was sitting on millions. We plan on retiring early and moving out of the country and I hope that eventually me (and her) wouldn't have to work. 

[alexkerr]

9 hours ago, bpb2017 said:

Why should there be a deterrent to leave a marriage?

Your gf is smart and doing the right thing.

It sounds like you guys haven't gone to a lawyer but I can tell you that prenups are relatively excellent value for money. Even lawyers that handle mega-million dollar divorces with obscene fees usually do not charge more than $3k for a well done prenup. I'm sure you can find a good one that do it for a lot less.

If you were hoping to marry your gf for the money then it seems you have not lucked out.

The reason I feel like there should be some deterrent to leaving the marriage is because nowadays people leave marriage for stupid reasons (just like my ex). To give my experience, we got into an argument and out of anger I told her that she wasn't the same person I married and after that she decided to divorce me over something so small and she threw me away after being together for over 11 years. She probably just got bored and wanted to move on with her life which is fine, but she didn't even try to work things out with me because I suggested marriage counseling/therapy after this fight but she refused and she moved out 3 nights after. 

I don't think it would be fair for my current girlfriend to have it that easy to leave without trying to work things out. That's why I feel like the prenup is an easy out because she could cheat on me and just leave the next day and it would be so easy. At least when people don't have prenup there is consequential thinking and there's more at stake so she would likely try to work things out with me since it wouldn't be so easy to leave. That's my standpoint. 

[alexkerr]

12 hours ago, Els said:

So... your lower income ex used to threaten divorce during arguments without a prenup and you think she would have done it more with a prenup... therefore you somehow think that having a prenup will make your higher income spouse less likely to threaten divorce? Want to go through the logic involved in your thought processes here?

My thought process is that my current girlfriend would be less likely to threaten divorce without a prenup because she knows the consequences if she were to do that (divorce me). I don't want to ever have to be in a position where divorce is being threatened because my ex did it all the time when we fought. My point is that if me and my current girlfriend were to argue and we had a prenup when married, she would say things like "Well I can leave this marriage easily because we have a prenup and there's no financial consequences for me." 

I also don't want to feel like I'm always walking on eggshells around her to not make her mad because it's easier to lose her (she has her own money and life and doesn't depend on me financially). I feel like now I have to work extra hard to keep her because of that whereas I was more relaxed with my ex because she couldn't leave so easily as she depended on me.