How to handle marriage delay?

[Gebidozo]

So my fiancée and I had set up a date to register marriage, but when the time drew near she said it was too early for her.

I asked her why she was feeling like that. She said she was feeling too guilty marrying me so soon after having broken up with a long-term boyfriend she had nearly married, but then broke up with so that she could be with me. That was 2 years ago.

I asked her why she agreed to get married on that date if she still felt too guilty, and she said she thought she would be able to get over those guilt feelings by then, but in reality she couldn’t.

I asked her whether she still had romantic feelings for her ex, was regretting her decision to leave him, or couldn’t get over him. She said “no”, and said it was just a very strong feeling of guilt which she’s been struggling with. She said she hurt him immensely and simply can’t marry another man so soon after canceling the marriage with him.

I asked her whether this was a permanent issue but she assured me it was just a delay and she needed more time. I asked her how much more time, and she said “I don’t know, I’m working on it and it’s already gotten much better than a year ago, but I’m not ready yet”.

I asked her whether I did anything wrong or whether there was something wrong with our relationship or her feelings for me. She said absolutely nothing was wrong with us, that I’ve become a much better partner during the last year, that she is fully committed to me and envisions a future life together, that she does think of me as her future husband but needs more time to get over her guilt feelings before she can marry me.

My question is this: what would be the best course of behavior for me to make her get over those guilt feelings and become ready to marry me? Should I try mentioning marriage again after some time? If so, after how much time? She hasn’t given me a precise timeline. I asked her whether she needed several years more, and she just said, “Hopefully less than that”.

Or should I just stop initiating any marriage talk and simply patiently wait till she is ready? 

I’m fine with giving her more time, but getting the marriage date delayed indefinitely like that was an unpleasant experience. 

She’s been extremely understanding about my disappointment, very nice and tender to me, reassuring me that she loves me, and so on. I don’t want to be an a**h*** and put pressure on her like I did a year ago. I want it to work, I want her to be happy and marry me when she is truly ready.

What would be the best way to achieve that?

Thank you in advance!

[stillafool]

I think 2 years is more than enough time to get over an ex and the guilt of breaking up with them.  What are your ages again?  Do you want children and are ready to start your family?  I don't think I would ask her again if I were you but wait for her to bring it up.  That way you will be sure that she wants to marry you without feeling pressured.

[riversidemf]

2 years and she still feels guilty. Sounds like an excuse. She's not ready yet, stop mentioning it to her until she brings it up. 

[Leihla_B]

3 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

...she was feeling too guilty marrying me so soon after having broken up with a long-term boyfriend she had nearly married, but then broke up with so that she could be with me. That was 2 years ago.

My heart goes out to you, G. The parallel here is her reaction to nearly marrying. She walks to the edge of the diving board but can't take the plunge.

This is typical of a rebounder who has leapfrogged from one serious relationship into the another. She never took the time to decathect from 'relationship mode' in order to stabilize solo. That stabilization, often referred to as 'finding oneself,' can be crucial to learning how to trust one's own judgment going forward.

3 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

...what would be the best course of behavior for me to make her get over those guilt feelings and become ready to marry me?

You can't 'make' another adult do anything, much less force them to feel a certain way. However, I would not advise letting go of the issue to leave yourself floundering in limbo. Instead, I'd gently open a discussion about my compassion for her even while I'm unwilling to sign a blank check on my own time and my own future.

Being clear about this is not 'pushy,' it's a demonstration of self-respect, which is necessary to avoid losing her respect for you. I'd offer that while I support her need to reconcile her past, I'm only willing to do that actively with the help of a couple's counselor. I'd offer her a list of 3 potential therapists. She can let me know tomorrow whether she's willing to invest in this work, and if so, which counselor she's contacted to set up an appointment.

If she wants to pursue individual therapy, that's great, but it doesn't replace your need to be in the loop and actively engage in such work as a couple. If she's serious about a goal of marriage with you, she will appreciate this opportunity to bring both of you closer together. If not, then she's only interested in coasting along for the time it may take for her to find an exit. Possibly with the next guy.

Head high.

Edited September 23 by Leihla_B

[Els]

Isn't your fiancee really young, like in her early/mid twenties? Or am I remembering wrong?

I think it's normal for people to feel like they're not ready to get married at that age. It's a huge step, a lifelong commitment to some extent. If that is the case though, she should communicate her feelings honestly with you, rather than beating around the bush.

[basil67]

3 hours ago, Els said:

Isn't your fiancee really young, like in her early/mid twenties? Or am I remembering wrong?

I think it's normal for people to feel like they're not ready to get married at that age. It's a huge step, a lifelong commitment to some extent. If that is the case though, she should communicate her feelings honestly with you, rather than beating around the bush.

I looked back - she's 30

@Gebidozo you said that you don't want to put pressure on her like you did a year ago.  You don't detail what that pressure involved, but I think her pulling back now is still related to that pressure and she's asserting personal control in order to bring the relationship back to a place where she's comfortable.  She's found the courage and voice to stand up to your previous pressure and tell you to SLOW DOWN.  

With all due respect, what's the rush?   For a lot of people, second and third marriages can happen more quickly as we have age, experience (and for better or worse, a lived knowledge that marriage isn't necessarily forever), but for those who are up for their first marriage it generally takes a lot more time and consideration.

Give it another couple of years and then come back to the topic

 

Edited September 23 by basil67

[Gaeta]

So sorry Gebidozo, l can feel your disappointment.

Reading you on here it's obvious you are a man with a lot of emotional maturity. You probably have an idea as to why she is delaying? What is your gut feeling tellling you?

I think the guilt has nothing to do with delaying the wedding. If being with you is what she wanted deep down then the guilt should have gone a long time ago. Maybe she's misinterpreting regrets for guilt. 

How long was she with the ex? Is she still in contact with him?

[Gebidozo]

7 hours ago, stillafool said:

I think 2 years is more than enough time to get over an ex and the guilt of breaking up with them. 

She said that herself. She said, “I’m not supposed to feel so guilty, yet I do”. But she said she’s getting better and just needs more time to get over the guilt. The problem is, I don’t know how much time that is.

 

7 hours ago, stillafool said:

Do you want children and are ready to start your family?

Yes, in principle, but not yet. We’re both a bit afraid of that, and also we’ve both decided that we want some more time just for each other.

 

7 hours ago, stillafool said:

I don't think I would ask her again if I were you but wait for her to bring it up.  That way you will be sure that she wants to marry you without feeling pressured.

That’s what I was thinking myself. Thank you for your advice!

[Gebidozo]

5 hours ago, Leihla_B said:

She never took the time to decathect from 'relationship mode' in order to stabilize solo.

It’s a bit more complicated. She was on and off with that guy for many years, then they broke up 5 years ago. 4 years ago we met and fell for each other, but I was with someone else and chose to stay with that woman. My now-fiancée was then single again for a year. Only then reconnected with that long-term guy, and they began talking about marriage. They live in different countries. Then my ex broke up with me, and I reconnected with my now-fiancée again, and she broke up with that guy so that she could be with me.

Sorry, it’s a really complicated story😔 But I think this background might be important to understand her.

 

5 hours ago, Leihla_B said:

Being clear about this is not 'pushy,' it's a demonstration of self-respect, which is necessary to avoid losing her respect for you. 

That’s what she said herself. She actually said, “Please push me and remind me to work on myself and get rid of that guilt”. She also apologized a lot for that delay. She now feels very guilty about standing me up like this. 
 

 

[Gebidozo]

5 hours ago, Els said:

Isn't your fiancee really young, like in her early/mid twenties? Or am I remembering wrong?

I think it's normal for people to feel like they're not ready to get married at that age. It's a huge step, a lifelong commitment to some extent. If that is the case though, she should communicate her feelings honestly with you, rather than beating around the bush.

She’s 30. She is generally very slow with those things, while I used to be very fast. Her longest relationship was on-and-off 9 years and they weren’t married. I once married a girl several months after having met her. I know about those differences between us, and I know that I used to be crazy fast and also very pushy.

About communicating her feelings, yeah, that was the biggest bummer for me. She said she did want to marry me on that date because she thought that by that time her guilt would go away or at least won’t be so strong as to prevent her from going through with this. 

Edited September 23 by Gebidozo

[Gebidozo]

2 hours ago, basil67 said:

You don't detail what that pressure involved

Basically rushing into everything and being very visibly disappointed when she made it clear that it was too fast. She wanted to do things at my pace to make me happy, but as a result she put a lot of stress on herself. So half a year ago, I asked her what her own preference for the marriage date would be, and she said “maybe late September?”

 

2 hours ago, basil67 said:

With all due respect, what's the rush?   For a lot of people, second and third marriages can happen more quickly as we have age, experience (and for better or worse, a lived knowledge that marriage isn't necessarily forever), but for those who are up for their first marriage it generally takes a lot more time and consideration.

Give it another couple of years and then come back to the topic

 

Thank you, Basil! That’s pretty much what I’m thinking myself. She is generally scared of getting married, scared of that act. To me, it’s just a thing I did several times before and now want to do with her to express my commitment. But she sees things differently, she says she knows that I’m committed and that I love her and she doesn’t see her delaying the marriage as a sign of lack of commitment or love on her part.

[Gebidozo]

1 hour ago, Gaeta said:

You probably have an idea as to why she is delaying? What is your gut feeling tellling you?

I think she is telling the truth about her guilt feelings, she is generally someone who feels guilty a lot, and I know that it was very traumatic for her to leave that guy for me. She calls it the toughest decision of her life. She says it devastated him. She used to have regular nightmares for a year or so afterwards. She says it’s getting better, but the guilt is still there.

The thing is this, I can understand her feelings because I also left people to be with someone else in the past, and I also felt guilt, but, to alleviate that guilt, I did just the opposite, I married the next person as soon as possible. My feeling was, “at least the horrible thing that I did wasn’t for some fling, it was for a person I’d marry”. So I did just the opposite of what she’s doing now, and it’s hard for me to understand why her guilt delays her decision to marry me instead of accelerating it.

Now, as I type this and re-read the previous paragraph, I can see that my reasoning was idiotic and I was probably just an immature dickhead who rushed like crazy to do stupid things in order to get rid of guilt…

 

[Gebidozo]

1 hour ago, Gaeta said:

How long was she with the ex? Is she still in contact with him?

It was an on-and-off 9-year relationship. Her longest one by far.

They are in contact, but it’s just normal stuff, he asks her about her mother’s health, sends her photos of the dogs they raised together, that kind of thing.

I can’t suspect her of wanting to be with that guy again, she completely burned the bridges with him. She is really suffering from intense guilt feelings. She did break up with people before, but she never left one guy to be with another, especially one she was planning to marry. She said it was the most hurtful thing she’s ever done to anyone.

[Gaeta]

So ok she lives with guilt every day. She was still able to fall for you, enter a relationship with you, and still able to conduct a productive life. I would ask her what is the difference between living with that guilt now versus living with that same guilt tomorrow as Mrs Gebidizo? 

Also, She may never lose that guilt feeling, is she supposed to put your lives on hold forever for that? In your situation you are a daily reminder of why she lives with guilt. It may never go away.

From a certain age we all live with some guilt. We tame it and we get used to living with it....guilt, regret, anger, sadness, the whole collection of negative feelings.

[Gaeta]

6 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

It was an on-and-off 9-year relationship

You know that has a smell of fear of commitment right?

[Gebidozo]

2 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

I would ask her what is the difference between living with that guilt now versus living with that same guilt tomorrow as Mrs Gebidizo? 

I asked her that. She said that marriage was this huge, scary step for her in general, and she was just not ready for it yet and needed more time to pass so that her guilt becomes less strong. 
 

5 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

Also, She may never lose that guilt feeling, is she supposed to put your lives on hold forever for that? In your situation you are a daily reminder of why she lives with guilt. It may never go away.

That’s what I told her too. She said she is waiting until her guilt is at least less strong. And she emphasized several times that it’s already getting much better. She said that a year ago it was absolutely awful, but as I got less pushy and generally became a better partner, the guilt began to fade, but it’s still there and she needs more time.

I also asked her about waiting forever. She said “of course not forever”, and “at most a few years more”.

[Gaeta]

2 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

at most a few years more

 

2 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

She said that marriage was this huge, scary

If you were a woman and posted this, you know what we would be saying, we would tell a woman she's wasting her time,  there will never be a marriage. 

How important is it for you to get married? 

If l remember well she also does not want to move in with you right? 

[Gebidozo]

4 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

You know that has a smell of fear of commitment right?

Not really. She was very committed to him, they were together 5 or 6 years continuously and she never cheated or fell for another guy or anything like that.  The “off” thing was due to Covid, they got stuck in different countries and she couldn’t go to his country. He could go to hers, but he didn’t want to and suggested to wait it out. She was disappointed that he didn’t pursue her, she expected him to insist that they should be in the same country and make more effort to reunite physically. So they broke up and she was either single or in short-termed relationships for a while. In 2022 they decided to get together again. She was supposed to go to his country and live with him there and marry him. But then my ex dumped me and I contacted her, and… well, you know the rest.

[basil67]

39 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

To me, it’s just a thing I did several times before and now want to do with her

What I'm about to write to address the bolded is probably going to sound harsh, but I want to preface it by saying that I've been there and done that and am not judging you.  After my divorce I realised just how "easy come/easy go" the whole marriage thing is.  So I didn't even bother to get married second time around (we are 30+ years defacto).  

I know you didn't ask this, but someone who's never been married and sees marriage as a really special 'once in a lifetime' commitment deserves more than someone who sees it as "just a thing I did several times before".   Along with lifetime love, she also deserves a man who feels the same way as she does.   Of course, I'm not suggesting you dump her but please think about the fact that she sees marriage very differently to you.  

Edit: I just saw that you married previous wives to help with the guilt of leaving another partner for them 😮 I believe you've been trying to get your s*** together andI think you'd be a great mate, but your background makes you a super high risk for marriage

 

Edited September 24 by basil67

[Gebidozo]

1 minute ago, Gaeta said:

How important is it for you to get married? 

I’m not sure myself now… I keep asking myself this question. I’ve always liked getting married, but my marriages crashed and burned, so maybe me wanting to get married so soon every time is part of the problem.

 

2 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

If l remember well she also does not want to move in with you right? 

I wanted to move together very soon, she was reluctant to do it that fast. We solved that issue, we started doing it gradually and we are living together now, but sometimes she goes to sleep in her mother’s house. I have no complaints about our living arrangements, they suit me just fine.

[Gaeta]

2 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

but sometimes she goes to sleep in her mother’s house. I have no complaints about our living arrangements, they suit me just fine.

I understand it's ok with you if she goes to her mom, but that's another symptom of having commitment issues.

Did she live with the ex of 9 years? Why did it take soooo many years for them to talk about getting married? 

[Gaeta]

13 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

She was supposed to go to his country and live with him there and marry him

That's a lot of *supposed to* . Were they just talking about it or the tickets were already bought? They had shop for a place together? They had a list of guests for the wedding?

[Gebidozo]

27 minutes ago, basil67 said:

I know you didn't ask this, but someone who's never been married and sees marriage as a really special 'once in a lifetime' commitment deserves more than someone who sees it as "just a thing I did several times before".   Along with lifetime love, she also deserves a man who feels the same way as she does.   Of course, I'm not suggesting you dump her but please think about the fact that she sees marriage very differently to you.

I think you nailed it. I needed to read this to confirm what I’ve been suspecting for a while. I was imposing my feelings about marriage on her, and I’ve only recently begun to understand that there were a lot of things wrong with them.

The thing is this, I don’t really know myself why I’m rushing to marry her now, I don’t fully understand my own motives. I keep saying to myself (and to her) that I want to do it to express my commitment and solidify our relationship, but I feel it sounds pretty ridiculous knowing I used to be married multiple times. What if I want to get married because I’m insecure and want to “have” her, gain more control? That does sound like a typical me, but I thought I’ve outgrown that by now.

 

27 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Edit: I just saw that you married previous wives to help with the guilt of leaving another partner for them 😮 I believe you've been trying to get your s*** together andI think you'd be a great mate, but your background makes you a super high risk for marriage

Oh, I’m very aware of that😔 It’s not just that, I have a history of cheating and other nasty stuff that I’m not even sure I’ll ever have the guts to mention on this forum. She knows about all that. I don’t even know how she was able to trust me in the first place. And how she left that super dependable, mature guy for a maniac like me. I even told her that. She said she could see beyond the insane chaos of my past into the depths of my soul and believed that I wasn’t truly “that guy”.

I’ve been feeling like one of those reforming villain characters on TV for a while.

Edited September 24 by Gebidozo

[Gebidozo]

9 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

Did she live with the ex of 9 years? Why did it take soooo many years for them to talk about getting married? 

Yes, she eventually moved in together with him, but it took 3 years. I wanted her to move in with me after 6 months or so, which was too fast for her and actually too slow for me.

Just as I don’t understand why it took so many years for them to talk about marriage, she doesn’t understand why it sometimes took me 6 months to get married and why I got married and divorced several times in the first place within a short time span (I was 23 when I got married for the first time and 38 when I had my third divorce).

[Gebidozo]

14 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

That's a lot of *supposed to* . Were they just talking about it or the tickets were already bought? They had shop for a place together? They had a list of guests for the wedding?

Oh no, nothing like that. Just general talks and vague plans about getting married at some point in the future.

The preparation of documents and setting a specific date for marriage that we did was by far the farthest she has ever walked on this path.